Jerry Conway: Seller's Perspective?

[Suncoast Herpetological]

don't hesitate to deal with Jerry,he's been around in the herp world as long as me,Dave Powell[over 20 years],you won't be dissapointed.cheers.Lanka!

Dave no one is impuning his rep. His request is just patently unreasonable and ridiculous...period!

 

[Dan Scolaro]

Disagree

I strongly disagree with most of what people are misleading to on this thread.

Jerry's request is very common amongst breeders who have been in the business many years.

Since Jerry has been in business longer, for good business practice's, it is incumbent upon the seller to ship first. If the animals are well-represented, then the seller will get the money, no doubts.

And I am not sure why anyone wrote to imply or unintentionally mislead that this was an arrangement between a dealer and a customer? These misleadings have changed the seller's decision, which is wrong.

As to your question Jennifer - "I was wondering if his request for me to send the snakes before I am payed is reasonable": The answer is yes. It is more than reasonable to send to an established well reputable breeder your snakes before receiving monies.

You can be thwarted by people who have had a few bad dealings in their hundreds of transactions, however Jerry stands head and shoulders above many of them.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Dan

No offense meant but you are simply incorrect. The issue here is not sending the animals prior to being paid. The issue is sending the animals on approval with no guarantee that the receiver is going to purchase them. I have sent animals to people prior to receiving payment before when I knew them or their rep checked out. However, I will guarantee you that you cannot find a single breeder out there who would expect someone to send them the animals after pics have been provided under the scenario.

He has asked me to send the snakes to him before he decides if he wants to purchase them or not.

If that is the only way someone wants to do business than they need to confine themselves to purchasing face to face.

I repeat, in 12 years in this business I have dealt with a number of the larger names out there both as buyer and seller. No one has ever suggested such a one sided arrangement.

Bottom line id that is Mr. Conway is unsure if the animals are being fairly represented after seeing pics and checking out Jen's rep then he should pass on the deal as well. His proposal is unfair

 

[Dan Scolaro]

Confused?

John:

I am not sure what your implying that I am incorrect about?

I am not sure what you mean when you said that Jerry is asking the seller to send them for his approval with no guarantee to purchase them?

Jennifer said that "He has asked me to send the snakes to him before he decides if he wants to purchase them or not."

To me, that means he wants to view them before buying them based on their heath, but not on a decision to want a hognose snake or not.

Maybe I missed something? Are you assuming that he (Jerry) expects the seller to potentially spend 80 dollars on shipping so he can make a sinmple decision on whether to buy a hognose snake? If so, I think you are assuming something adrift here. Jerry is a long-term very reputable businessman, and it would be odd as heck to think that he or anyone in this world would expect anyone else to send something to someone for their decision on whether they wanted to buy something or not? Jerry has been looking for hognose snakes for weeks on kingsnake.com.

I mean if someone called your business and said they wanted a snake but needed you to send it to them for the sole purpose to decide on whether they wanted it or not, you would put down the phone in a nano second. lol.

From what I determined from the seller, he is asking to see the snakes before purchasing them to determine their health, not determine if he wants to buy a hognose snake.

Perhaps I missed something here?

And I am not sure how you do business and whatever, but many of the dealers in south Florida receive many shipments a week from private breeders and do not pay a nickel before inspecting the critters. And even on imports, they often have to take the critters and move them fast and then pay for them to the importer. And they do not receive the critters based on a decision to want them or not, they accept them based on their inspection of quality and quantity. And of course these breeders are not strangers to each other. They rely on the strong reputation of the person they are sending their stock.

Maybe I missed something here but its Saturday morning, my kids are on my feet and the wife is yelling at me to get off the computer so I gotta go.

 

[pch101]

"Jerry's request is very common amongst breeders who have been in the business many years."

This statement caused me to reflect on my past selling experiences. While I would say that I have not sold a lot of animals to big name breeders, there were a couple experiences that came to mind. Last year I sold a male Blue-tongued skink to a guy that has been in the business for many years and has more than paid his dues. His name is Ernie Wagner, and he was one of the nicest people I have ever dealt with before. Ernie was friendly, and asked questions about the animal that he was interested in. After talking with me for a few minutes, he decided he would take it. He sent money promptly after that, and then I sent the skink to him. Ernie never said anything about having me send to him first, and he did not know me from the next guy. I just do not know how you can imply that this that common for a big name breeder???

"Since Jerry has been in business longer, for good business practice's, it is incumbent upon the seller to ship first. If the animals are well-represented, then the seller will get the money, no doubts."

Incumbent??? I have to disagree. The industry standards are in place. for all of us no matter how long we have been in the hobby. Just because you would send your snakes to Jerry without payment does not in any way mean that she should be obligated to do the same!

"And I am not sure why anyone wrote to imply or unintentionally mislead that this was an arrangement between a dealer and a customer? These misleadings have changed the seller's decision, which is wrong."

Wrong? How do you figure? She made up her own mind and with good reason. She did not feel that his experience was to a level that he would be able to do them justice, and I agree with her.

"As to your question Jennifer - "I was wondering if his request for me to send the snakes before I am payed is reasonable": The answer is yes. It is more than reasonable to send to an established well reputable breeder your snakes before receiving monies."

I would disagree and say no. It is not reasonable (especially in a case where the buyer does not seem to be sure that he wants them and seems to be lacking experience in keeping them).

"You can be thwarted by people who have had a few bad dealings in their hundreds of transactions, however Jerry stands head and shoulders above many of them."

Humm, It is a bit vague, but I think you just slammed a lot of people with very good reputations. Maybe I just read that wrong...

 

[Greg Riso]

It Seems The General Concensus is

no matter what Jerry's reputation is just about everyone that's responded here is has said you shouldn't be expected to ship first pending buyer approval. I don't know who Jerry deals with but when buying over the net most people require money be paid up front. In the real world when an animal is posted for sale usually money talks and business is done on a first come first served basis. If your Hognose are good quality I don't know why you should be expected to do business differently than when dealing with anyone else.
You've put this question before us and there's enough feedback here for Jerry to read and understand if he wants them he must pay up front and he'll get them. This is not saying anything negative against Jerry. It's just that, as someone else said earlier, if Jerry had animals for sale, would he send them out pending approval? If I'm not mistaken, I believe you said he was willing to send a money order first. I would at a bare minimum require that. If you are confident your animals are of good quality and Jerry is able to recognize them as such and his approval should follow. The problem here is you feel his knowledge of this species may not be that great. For this reason I'd get the money up front, give a limited health guarantee for a period of time no one could kill an animal within, but not send on an "upon approval" basis. I think what I've said is similar to what most have said so far. I think Jerry can take the hint he may be expecting to much lol.

 

[brucestephenson]

And I am not sure how you do business and whatever, but many of the dealers in south Florida receive many shipments a week from private breeders and do not pay a nickel before inspecting the critters. And even on imports, they often have to take the critters and move them fast and then pay for them to the importer. And they do not receive the critters based on a decision to want them or not, they accept them based on their inspection of quality and quantity. And of course these breeders are not strangers to each other. They rely on the strong reputation of the person they are sending their stock.

Maybe I missed something here but its Saturday morning, my kids are on my feet and the wife is yelling at me to get off the computer so I gotta go.

Great discussion on this topic!

My wife also gets totally pissed when she sees me at the green screen of death on the computer!

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

John:

I am not sure what your implying that I am incorrect about?

I am not sure what you mean when you said that Jerry is asking the seller to send them for his approval with no guarantee to purchase them?

Jennifer said that "He has asked me to send the snakes to him before he decides if he wants to purchase them or not."

To me, that means he wants to view them before buying them based on their heath, but not on a decision to want a hognose snake or not.

Maybe I missed something? Are you assuming that he (Jerry) expects the seller to potentially spend 80 dollars on shipping so he can make a sinmple decision on whether to buy a hognose snake? If so, I think you are assuming something adrift here. Jerry is a long-term very reputable businessman, and it would be odd as heck to think that he or anyone in this world would expect anyone else to send something to someone for their decision on whether they wanted to buy something or not? Jerry has been looking for hognose snakes for weeks on kingsnake.com.

I mean if someone called your business and said they wanted a snake but needed you to send it to them for the sole purpose to decide on whether they wanted it or not, you would put down the phone in a nano second. lol.

From what I determined from the seller, he is asking to see the snakes before purchasing them to determine their health, not determine if he wants to buy a hognose snake.

Perhaps I missed something here?

And I am not sure how you do business and whatever, but many of the dealers in south Florida receive many shipments a week from private breeders and do not pay a nickel before inspecting the critters. And even on imports, they often have to take the critters and move them fast and then pay for them to the importer. And they do not receive the critters based on a decision to want them or not, they accept them based on their inspection of quality and quantity. And of course these breeders are not strangers to each other. They rely on the strong reputation of the person they are sending their stock.

Maybe I missed something here but its Saturday morning, my kids are on my feet and the wife is yelling at me to get off the computer so I gotta go.

Dan

No one is saying that Jerry is trying to decide whether or not to buy any hognose at all and wants to look at one first. That would be an idiotic assumption. The problem is that he is asking for full and complete control of a deal that he initiated. He is also, indirectly, casting aspersions on Jen's reputation by not taking her assertion that the animals are healthy at face value. Again, if the buyer does not trust the sellers word he should not be buying from her.

You have stated that Jerry has been looking for Hognose for weeks on Kingsnake. Do you suppose that he is requesting these terms from everyone he is contemplating buying from? You don't see anything unreasonable about that?

The large dealers you speak of that receive shipments weekly from individuals that they have not yet paid for is an apples and oranges comparison. Those are generally large wholesale orders that terms have been arranged on. They are also almost always long term buyer / seller relationships. I can assure you that the terms are not put in place so that the buyer can make a subjective appraisal of the animals and decide that they do not want them due to aesthertic or minor reasons. If a dealer has concerns like that he asks for pics. I deal with most of the large breeders in Florida you are probably referring to on a regular basis and have been for years so I am intimately aware of how these terms are arranged. Imports are, of course, a completely different situation.

We are talking about a small purchase of a couple of abimals here. That is a private sale no matter who the buyer is. They are also two people who have never done business together before.

The buyer is asking the seller to send the animals so that he can view them first hand before deciding is he wants these particular specimens.

That is unreasonable Dan no matter how you want to approach it.

 

[The BoidSmith]

"And I am not sure why anyone wrote to imply or unintentionally mislead that this was an arrangement between a dealer and a customer? These misleadings have changed the seller's decision, which is wrong."

Dan,

Wouldn't you agree this was a decision between seller and buyer? Do you think otherwise? Who are we to make decisions for either one of them? Most people here only provided their points of view, some differed and yet all very valid. Are you suggesting ("unintentionally" ) that in order not to "unintentionally mislead" Jennifer we should have not replied to her questions? Jennifer is well known for the quality of her animals, and has been around long enough to make her own judgment call without being influenced by other people's opinions. "This misleadings changed her decision". Not in my opinion. She had not made up her mind yet and after a conversation here she decided not to sell under those conditions. Maybe she will change her mind if Jerry decides to send payment upfront. Due to my past experience with Jennifer and her animals I would strongly encourage Jerry to re-think his business proposal. He will be at the lost here. Although by doing so I might "unintentionally" mislead him into buying from Jennifer .

Best regards.

 

[Dan Scolaro]

Still Disagree

I respect what you all said, but still stand by my initial observations and expressed experiences with how I have witnessed other reptile businesses operate and how I would follow to operate. And that's not to imply that anyone should adopt those manners as they were learned under different circumstances perhaps?

And I did not wish to slam anyone as James indicated. A disagreement is not a slam and no slam was intended.

Everyone has their own particular work ethic and their own personal approach to business based on their reputation and tactics and so on. You can have a hundred good transactions and one bad. You need to decide if your strategy to survive in this business is worth that risk or not? But that is a personal decison based on your own personal work experiences and ethics.

And I am not sure what Jerry was asking for as we do not know his intentions, only what the seller has communicated.

Either case, Jerry needs to call Jennifer and they need to speak and breed those hognoses so we can all get some.

 

[jerry conway]

Ok, Enough Already....let Me Speak

I Cant Believe I Just Had To Pay $10 To Register Here To Reply To All This Nonsense....first Of All, Let Me Say This....i Wanted These Hognose Snakes!!....period....i Had Absolutely No Intention Of Sending Them Back To Jennifer Or Refusing Them When They Arrived Here....all I Asked Was That She Send The Snakes First Since I Had Never Heard Of Her And She Was Not A "known" Breeder....case Closed....thats It....i Have Open Accounts With Several Dealers And Breeders Who Simply Send Me An Invoice With The Animals And Give Me A Week Or Two To Pay....so Please....stop All This Negative Talk And Cloak And Dagger Crap....i'm Still One Of The Good Guys In This Business And Always Will Be....thanks For Letting Me Vent....jerry

 

[Jungle Gems]

Yes, and Jerry offered to pay for them first via money order if I did not agree to the other terms. My decision not to sell to him was not based on the fact that he wanted the snakes before sending payment (as we have already established that he would have been willing to go the other way), my decision was based on the fact that I did not think he had enough experience with the species. Jerry and I have already talked privately and I will be selling him these snakes if he wants them once he has worked with the species for a period of time (and demonstrates he has the applicable knowlege of H. platirhinos care). I already posted the conclusion to this thread a few pages back, and I stand by my statement that Jerry Conway is a man of character- one that I hope to do business with int he future.

Jennifer Webb
(Jungle Gems Exotics)
www.JungleGemsExotics.com

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

I Cant Believe I Just Had To Pay $10 To Register Here To Reply To All This Nonsense....first Of All, Let Me Say This....i Wanted These Hognose Snakes!!....period....i Had Absolutely No Intention Of Sending Them Back To Jennifer Or Refusing Them When They Arrived Here....all I Asked Was That She Send The Snakes First Since I Had Never Heard Of Her And She Was Not A "known" Breeder....case Closed....thats It....i Have Open Accounts With Several Dealers And Breeders Who Simply Send Me An Invoice With The Animals And Give Me A Week Or Two To Pay....so Please....stop All This Negative Talk And Cloak And Dagger Crap....i'm Still One Of The Good Guys In This Business And Always Will Be....thanks For Letting Me Vent....jerry

Jerry

To start, no one here has at all implied that you are anything but a good guy. The only topic of discussion was Jen's statement in the first post that you wanted the animals shipped prior to deciding if you were going to keep them.

If your concern was simply that you considered her an unknown and were afraid of being ripped off then that is another scenario all together. I usually ask for references or at the very least check an unfamiliar seller out here on the first transaction. If you can supply solid references and the seller cannot then there are situations where it is appropriate to suggest they ship first prior to payment.

If it had been stated as described above I doubt this thread would have been this heated or long

 

[The BoidSmith]

Easy one the caffeine! )

Maybe I misread something in here but from my perspective no one was even casting a doubt on no one’s reputation. This was a good discussion about different business practices, and far from being “Negative Talk And Cloak And Dagger Crap”. Had this been a topic of discussion in the General Business Section it would’ve been perfectly appropriate.

Regards.

 

[Jungle Gems]

This is the exact e-mail in which the request was made.

Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 23:29:30 -0400
From: "jerry conway" <[email protected]> Add To Address Book
Subject: Re: Finally!
To: <[email protected]>



whats your phone # jen??....i want to speak with you....i was wondering if
you can send me the snakes before i send my money....i have an excellent
reputation in the business and will not flake out on you in any way....i
have not bought snakes sight unseen in 12 years....this is not a reflection
on you....i am just very wary and am asking you that favor....if not, i can
send you a check or money order next week....i do not want you to use a heat
pack at all....i would rather wait until your temps reach at least
70....talk soon, jerry


The emphasis was not put upon my being an "unknown" or of questionable reputation, it was put upon not purchasing the snake sight-unseen (I did provide pictures... the snakes were just not yet tangible to Jerry). Whether or not the statement was meant to be interpreted as that Jerry wanted the look the snakes over before deciding to purchase, that is the way it appeared to me. Jerry has come to this thread and, respectively, cleared up this issue. (Also note the statement in which he offered to send a check or money order if I did not agree to carry the transaction out in his preferred fashion.)

As for Jerry Conway's reputation, a search on him turned up about as much information as it did about me and my company. I do have excellent references (which I would be glad to provide to anyone who should inquire), Dan Garcia being one of them and he has already posted his take on my business practices and quality of my livestock. From my perspective, Jerry was an "unknown" to me and I had to do what was wise and consult other business owners (prominent Fauna members who frequent the BOI) to inquire upon this type of transaction. Absolutely nothing about my first post was meant to be an expose on Jerry Conway.

I am glad that this thread has virtually been concluded and that Jerry was able to speak his piece about the matter. It's unfortunate that his vaguely written e-mail was subject to my misinterpretation, however, had it been fully clear I still believe I would have come to the Board of Inquiry and posted if for no other reason than to inquire about this type of transaction. Thank you all for your insights.

Jerry, good luck on getting your project started. The herp industry needs more Eastern Hognose enthusiasts so that more quality captive-bred specimens will be available in the future. I hope to hear from you once you are established with this species.

Best wishes!

Jennifer Webb
(Jungle Gems Exotics)
www.JungleGemsExotics.com

 

[Jim O]