Jodi Aherns ~ Poor Business ethics and poor shipping methods!! AVOID

[ReptileZone1]

Vandever, there not snakes man I don't think it would hurt to throw in a cool pack even if the weather wasn't SWELTERING hot... I don't think it would hurt to throw it in there anyways(making sure they dont get too cold of course).. What would of been wrong with throwing one in there anyways? It helps prepare for the unexpected delays and if there isn't a delay it won't harm them...

 

[VandeverExotics]

I agree 100%. And thanks for the correction. Had snakes on the brain, lol. The packs are just an extra step that takes little time to ensure proper health for shipment and arrival. On a side note, I don't believe that Jody is a "bad guy" per say, compared to some of the more notorious on this site. I just think he got careless in planning this one time. Obviously he has seen the error he made and is rectifying it, so that says alot in itself. It, in my opinion, is something that should have been rectified before this thread ever had to be started.

Charles Vandever
VandeverExotics

 

[ReptileZone1]

It was a careless error, but how many does it take? I hope he won't do it ever again, as I'm sure we all do, but it could happen. His attitude is that he does it "alot without having any problems". But there always has to be a first, and to know that he wasn't prepared for it for some odd reason is what gets me.. I could understand him not using cold packs on a decent day, but having checked the weather and it saying it was going to be 90 degrees and still not using a heat pack is a scary thought.. Expect temps higher than what they are "forecasted" to be IMO... Pooor geckos....

 

[groovygeckos]

What would of been wrong with throwing one in there anyways?

oh heck i dunno ! cost money ?

 

[DAND]

Mid-way on the screen shot Matt posted does it not show at 6:30 am in KY an ADVERSE WEATHER CONDITIONS CAUSED THIS DELAY statement?

 

[Gecko_Den]

Gecko_Den you nailed me last time I said that his geckos were skinny. You come to his aid alot... If you could smack me with some negative points like lasttime that would be great. They are skinny IMO and I am under the impression alot of people said that they were... Oh well.. Once again...

First of all, I don't recall "nailing you last time" you said they were too skinny.

I'm not coming to his "aid", I'm calling it like I see it, those geckos are NOT too skinny for their age. I believe Marcia said the same thing a few posts later.

Who are these "a lot of people" who are saying they are too skinny?

As for this comment, "If you could smack me with some negative points like lasttime that would be great.", I don't recall giving you neg. points, but after reading your post to me, I'm not surprised that I did, it is taking a bit of will power not to honor your request and hit you with a few more.

I simply commented on Matt's remark that they were too skinny. i don't recall seeing you post the same thing, to be honest I don't recall what your post may or may not have said, hell I don't even recall ever exchanging posts with you before. My comment was for Matt, I never intended to make this some kind of "personal thing" between you and I, especially when you consider that I don't know who you even are......

Next time, maybe think before you post, especially if you are going to "call me out" on the BOI. Here what you say, stays....

 

[Jim O]

Jim, I agree with you that this was a delay that neither the shipper or receiver could have prevented. But do you not agree that this is the type of contigency that should be thought of prior to shipping, knowing that with that type of heat, extended delays can be detrimental?

I will also agree with you that if the snakes had arrived in the a.m. that they would certainly have survived. However, in retrospect, if they had been packaged with cool packs, they also would have certainly survived. This is just my opinion, but I feel very strongly about it. I have the utmost respect for you Jim and don't mean to go against you on this, but I just cannot make myself believe that it was okay for Jody to not anticipate this problem and prepare the shipment for it.

Thanks,
Charles Vandever
VandeverExotics

Charles,

With all due respect, did you read what Marcia wrote to me? She didn't include cool packs and the day my geckos arrived it was quite hot here. Had they sat on on the truck all day they might well have been dead also. She didn't prepare for a carrier delay and no one is jumping on her for not "anticipating such an event". Hey, why not throw in some crickets in case the gecko gets hungry in a delay? Or why not throw in a frozen rodent with a snake shipment? That can serve as a cool pack, and if there's an extended delay it can be a food item. There are a lot of what ifs here. The sad losers are the geckos. Could this have been prevented? Maybe. By whom? By any of the parties involved including UPS. Why did Matt agree to door to door shipping via UPS when he knows they are not timely in his area? He also had an opportunity to speak up and say "use another carrier" or "have it held at the UPS office and I will pick it up" (as had been his custom).

I don't know why Jodi was so stubborn about the whole thing and why he felt this needed to come to the BOI over a $45 refund but let's not forget this. Jodi offered to replace the animals and Matt didn't want that because he felt the animals were thin. We have some experienced people here saying they were not thin, just young. If Marcia had been the seller and the buyer someone unknown here, and she offered to replace the animals and ship them properly and the customer refused that, would we even be having this discussion?

I have done business with Matt several times and he is one of the good guys here without any doubt, and I consider him a friend. We exchanged PM's about some personal stuff last night after all this went up in fact. I know that he is pissed off here and with good reason. But no party is 100% guilty here and no party is 100% innocent except the poor dead geckos.

The plain fact is this was a screw up, an error in judgement, followed perhaps by a bit of ego clash.

Over the years I have had many reptiles shipped to me in summer for 10:30AM delivery. All have been here by that time, all alive, and I can't remember the last one that had a cool pack. Some did for sure, but they are the exceptions not the rule. For the most part these were higher end than $90 worth of geckos (not to minimize the value of the lives of the six animals but just to put things in perspective). Would anyone like names?

 

[Gecko_Den]

As for the post earlier, about a cool pack costing money, there a several way's to make a cheap, home maid cool pack. One that I prefer is to take a kitchen sponge, cut it to the size you want, get it good and wet, freeze it, put it in a ziplock bag after freezing and you have a perfect cold pack for the cost of about 75 cents.....

 

[Jim O]

As for the post earlier, about a cool pack costing money, there a several way's to make a cheap, home maid cool pack. One that I prefer is to take a kitchen sponge, cut it to the size you want, get it good and wet, freeze it, put it in a ziplock bag after freezing and you have a perfect cold pack for the cost of about 75 cents.....

Sam, I am sure that such a cool pack would be excellent for overnight but do you think that it would have survived over 24 hours, including 12+ in a truck out in the sun? Had Jodi included such a model would "we" be jumping on him for it failing during a carrier delay?

 

[Jodi L Aherns]

I messed up on not checkibg how long it would take to get to Matt.If i would have know they would be on the truck all day ,i would not have sent the geckos.Are my ethics bad No,did i make a bad call yes i did.Matt had other boxs come in on Tuesday and asked if i could ship on Monday for Tuesday del to the UPS hub,and i could not because my weather was to hot on Monday.So the next time i could ship was Thursday for Friday del.so he said to ship to his house,because he did not want to drive a hour each way to pick them up. I sent out other boxs that same day and they got to there new homes alive.Now i am out the $135.00 and 6 het.bell albino leos.And still have to pay UPS for the shipping.For a grand total of $180.00.No wounder why i am getting out of all reptiles.Matt i will call you Tuesday.

 

[Gecko_Den]

Sam, I am sure that such a cool pack would be excellent for overnight but do you think that it would have survived over 24 hours, including 12+ in a truck out in the sun? Had Jodi included such a model would "we" be jumping on him for it failing during a carrier delay?

Probably not, it is hard to say, packed properly in an insulated box, maybe it would have made a difference, maybe it wouldn't. But I wasn't bringing it up in reference to this particular incident, just commenting on a previous post that said something about the cost of a cool pack, not sure who the poster was, and don't feel like going back to look, I'm feeling a bit lazy this morning....

 

[Casey Hulse]

I have

always gotten gel paks for free from the local pharmacy. They get lots of them in the summer with their drug shipments and seldom reuse them, they are usually happy to get rid of them. They also get lots of styro boxes that work great for shipping, but UPS charges extra to ship styro.

 

[Jeremy Letkey]

I would also like some clarification. Matt, at what time did you take this shipment into your possesion? Could you please clarify this. I'm still a little confused. You say that there was no delay, yet the system shows that you recieved them at 6:47 pm.

 

[gila7150]

Jodi may be deserving of the bonehead of the year award for suggesting that this be brought to the BOI when Matt was willing to handle it privately. He couldn't have actually believed this would actually go in his favor.

I'm glad that he's now willing to refund Matt's money but I prefer that the people I do business with actually know right from wrong without an opinion poll.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I am sure that such a cool pack would be excellent for overnight but do you think that it would have survived over 24 hours, including 12+ in a truck out in the sun?

Absolutely not! A gel cool-pack(s) would not be able to 'keep it's cool' for over 24 hours... especially if the box sat on a hot truck or tarmack all day. A cool pack (or hot pack for that matter) will only be effective until the internal box temperature equalizes to the exterior temperature, and depending on the box size, thickness of the styrofoam insulation, and external temperature, could be as little as 6-8 hours.

Now, I'm really not sure why this issue needed to become a BOI "Bad Guy" report if it was the carrier that was responsible for this tragedy. Like I said in my previous post, it is really important to know what the seller's refund policy states before making a purchase. For example, here is mine... posted on the "SHIPPING" page of my website:

"You must be available to take delivery of your gecko(s) on the pre-arranged date, time, and place to insure their health and safety. I cannot be held directly responsible for changes in the weather during transit, delivery delays, or other carrier related issues. Refunds or exchanges are made on a case-by-case basis at my discretion. Please report any problems to me immediately, and I will make every effort to solve them with you!"

So, in a case like this one, "my discretion" would depend on a few things... one of them being the attitude of the buyer. Quite frankly, if I was accused of not caring about my animals because I didn't anticipate a delivery delay, I'm not sure how I would handle the situation.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I am curious, Ed why do you believe Matt should not be refunded? Enlighten us on your vote.

 

[Rebel Dragons]

Although some may not agree that a cool pack makes a difference I think that it does. Even if they do not, it gives me a little more comfort knowing that they are in the box.

For such a nominal fee I choose to use them simply because I think they may make that little difference if the box gets lost or redirected. An extra dollar out my pocket for that comfort is money well spent in my opinion.

 

[ravensgait]

Marcia, your terms:
You must be available to take delivery of your gecko(s) on the pre-arranged date, time, and place to insure their health and safety. I cannot be held directly responsible for changes in the weather during transit, delivery delays, or other carrier related issues. Refunds or exchanges are made on a case-by-case basis at my discretion. Please report any problems to me immediately, and I will make every effort to solve them with you!" :
The only problem with this is that most of it (depending on the state you live in) doesn't mean a thing. If I ordered animals from you and say the carrier was late getting them here and they died, or the weather got hot or cold or whatever. Legally you would have to replace them or refund my money as I did not receive what I payed for and the carrier as you are aware will not insure live animals.

You can say whatever you want on your site but the law is what matters. Randy

 

[VandeverExotics]

The plain fact is this was a screw up, an error in judgement, followed perhaps by a bit of ego clash.

I agree, Jim. I don't want anyone to think that I believe Jody to be a bad businessman. In fact, I would possibly make purchases from Jody in the future, although I haven't dealt with him before and don't know what he carries. But I would insist on heat or cool packs, depending on time of year. I do believe that this was a mistake, a mistake that proved fatal. I don't believe that Jody should be branded a "bad guy" though. I have made my share of mistakes in the past. It's whether or not you learn from them that distinguishes the good guy from the bad guy. Just my opinion.

Thanks,
Charles Vandever
VandeverExotics

 

[Milwaukee Reptiles]

Jodi,
I beleive UPS will actually refund the shipping money if you get a little firm with them and inform them that animals died due to the delay. UPS Next day air is GUARANTEED by 10:30 (if he's in one of those areas), and even weather should get you a refund on the shipping. Something to call Customer Service and ask about at least.