Joe Pierce (BAD GUY)

[Alex G]

Like many of you, I saw a thread yesterday on Cornsnakes.com "showing off" animals bought by Joe. I felt sickened and distressed, but chose not to respond to the thread because I greatly respect Susan, and she asked for people not to get into a debate.

Here's a quick quote from the thread..


I guess it just greatly disturbs me that someone could read this thread (I'm guessing that was how they became "fully informed" and decide to support Joe.

As far as this whole "personal attack" thing goes.. after reviewing this thread again, I can't find one area that to me sounds like a personal attack against Joe's character. All that is presented here are people's experiences and FACTS. Opinions of Joe, honestly, have been quite civil considering the magnitude of his scamming.

I guess I just feel helpless that people are buying Joe's corns. Seeing that photo thread made me feel very frustrated, and I didn't know where else to vent. I hope that Joe's reputation among those who might spend a lot of money on his stock is sufficiently damaged, I just wish there was more we could do to spread the word to those unsuspecting.

-Jessica Meyer

I also liked Joe's response, in which he basically says KJ is just mad because he's scared of competing with Joe.

Every time I read your relentless personal attacks against me, I have to wonder if it looks as bad to others as it does to me. Are you that concerned about me as a competitor, that you feel the need to attack me, rather than depending on your own successes? I am surprised that continued relentless personal attacks are allowed to continue. Keep it up, I think it makes you two look very bad.

Here is a happy customer showing off his new purchase, and you high jack his thread, to attack me. Yes I did come up with the term Landrace to market Corns that are traceable to wild caught, but nothing is certain, just like Frase Bloods. He caught wild caught Corns and produced Bloodreds from them. Kathy and Bill Love even went to his house, and believed his story, but now Amels and Anerys have been produced from the line, so people act like it was an attempted scam. I like Landrace, it is used a lot in the horticulture industry, but wild caught, wild line or what ever. Perhaps we should just not even try for pure lines of Corns, even though everybody touts mutant Corns as being pure as far as they know.

It seems as if everybody wants to have as near to pure Corns as they can get, but Okeetee Hunt Club hobbyist have always been put down for some reason. It seems as if some people that don’t have a particular morph or “wild caught”, line seem to have to put down others who try. Why can’t we like our morphs and like lines that are more traceable to wild caught too. Perhaps everybody really knows our Corns are not as pure as we are lead to believe.

This particular line of Landrace are a combo of the original wild line of Lava and a Kathy Love Okeetee. Kathy’s Okeetees are as close to wild caught origins as she could get, but it is all based upon other peoples word as well, and others beyond that. This particular line was produced from ACR 2067, a Kathy Love Okeetee that later proved to be het for Sunkissed. This line is possible het for Sunkissed. ACR 2067 has been tested to a Het Stargazer twice with 30 hatchlings and no gazers were produced. It seems as if the line is gazer free.

Redcoats are real. Don S calls them Red Factor. I don’t care what they are called, but does anybody not like the look on Don’s Cayenne Fires? Redcoats look great on other morphs as well, such as Sunkissed. Attached are some comparison photos between a Redcoat Sunkissed and Non-Redcoat. (Last photo) It is pretty obvious. Redcoats look nice on Corns, but it also can cover up contrast, which some morphs look better with. A Redcoat would almost completely cover up a nice Amel Hurricane pattern for example, but look fantastic on Bloods, Sunglows, Lavas and others.

These Landrace Lavas, Wild Line Lavas, or just Lavas if you like, are very saturated with orange to begin with. The Redcoat just amplifies this and it is a very nice look. The thin top coat of red makes a very orange Corn, a little redder and more saturated with color, but still orange. I will even go out on a limb here and say they are also carrying a dominant gene that causes a borderless split belly phenotype. It can cause an Okeetee bred to a Corn with this gene, to become almost borderless in F1 and since it is dominant, it only takes a het Borderless to cause 50% of offspring to be this phenotype.

Martin, I am sorry that your thread was high jacked, because of some peoples near hatred towards me. I appreciate your business! Your female is the best Landrace Lava I have ever produced and you have a right to proud. My colony is very healthy and just because somebody looses a Corn purchased from me 7 weeks after they received it, does not put the blame on me. People can kill Corns rather easily many ways. I have had no problems here at all, and there is no proof what so ever of any health problems with my colony. It is just peoples completely unsubstantiated excuses for their own mistakes.


Photos attached are of Martin’s female Landrace Lava when she was younger, her compared to a Red Phase Lavas and some Redcoat, Non-Redcoat Sunkissed comparisons.

 

[ophidile]

Well he's lost one customer here, although that was before this thread, with his abuse and sexist comments towards someone he had a breeding loan with. If he finds estrogen so problematic surely he can do without my tainted money To my knowledge he never apologized or made amends for that, either.

I loved the look of his lavas and would have gotten some from him, but not after I saw that! Doubly so now.

I'm pretty sure he's lost other customers. Sure some people will still risk it - but in this economy every bit counts. I think one or two comments on such threads are not untoward, but always listen to the moderator when they tell you to cool it ^-^

PS - his "defense" on his own customer's thread didn't win him any cool points, either.

Like many of you, I saw a thread yesterday on Cornsnakes.com "showing off" animals bought by Joe. I felt sickened and distressed, but chose not to respond to the thread because I greatly respect Susan, and she asked for people not to get into a debate.

Here's a quick quote from the thread..


I guess it just greatly disturbs me that someone could read this thread (I'm guessing that was how they became "fully informed" and decide to support Joe.

As far as this whole "personal attack" thing goes.. after reviewing this thread again, I can't find one area that to me sounds like a personal attack against Joe's character. All that is presented here are people's experiences and FACTS. Opinions of Joe, honestly, have been quite civil considering the magnitude of his scamming.

I guess I just feel helpless that people are buying Joe's corns. Seeing that photo thread made me feel very frustrated, and I didn't know where else to vent. I hope that Joe's reputation among those who might spend a lot of money on his stock is sufficiently damaged, I just wish there was more we could do to spread the word to those unsuspecting.

-Jessica Meyer

 

[mike17l]

I also liked Joe's response, in which he basically says KJ is just mad because he's scared of competing with Joe.

I don't if KJ has seen this post here on the BOI yet, but to my knowledge (KJ will have to confirm) KJ does not produce Joe's "big sellers" lava and sunkissed. If he produces either, it would be one clutch that might have some in them. So if they are not producing the same thing, where is the competition? IMO, Joe knows that he must account for his actions and is trying to turn the conversation away from himself. He is, as I have heard another say "grasping at straws".

 

[KJUN]

I also liked Joe's response, in which he basically says KJ is just mad because he's scared of competing with Joe.

Scam artists and frauds, like Joe, ALWAYS try to put the blame on the victim. Whether they know they are wrong or not is irrelevant - they know others might blame them, so they try to make the victim look bad.

It takes a horrible person to call himself a man to beat a woman and claim she deserves it, but that is the tactic many of those deranged people take: "It's the victim's fault." What Joe did is nowhere as bad as beating a weaker person, but it is the same thing. He committed fraud. He is now attacking the victims because he won't make it right.

It's typical behavior for a scam artist. He scams, runs, hides, and returns...and NOW he is blaming the victims for his "mistakes." He's saying how it is there fault for expecting his hets to be real hets (if I am allowed to paraphrase). Why would we expect anything else? That is typical CAM ARTIST BEHAVIOR!

What more proof is there that he attacks me but doesn't have time to make it right? I gave him MONTHS to make it right - on 2 different occasions - and he attacks me as the victim.

Anyone that does business with him now DESERVES what they get when he runs away and hids again...and again...like he has repeatedly in the past.

 

[mike17l]

Hey Joe, its obvious that you are man enough to post ads on Kingsnake, where people are naive and may not know your "history". When will you be man enough to actually sign in under your original user name (ecreipeoj) and address your faults?

 

[sculpepper]

I have seen several snakes for sale online by Joe and I refuse to buy any. I don't care if he was giving the snake away. I would not be interested. I refuse to support someone who treats people the way he has. Yes, people do make mistakes, but he seems to be like every other con artist that plays the blame game. Until he can step up and admit that he was wrong and make it right who is to say he won't do it again. NOT WORTH THE CHANCE IN MY BOOKS. I stand behind all of the people he has ripped off and I hope others will to. DO NOT BUY HIS STOCK!

 

[Richard Hume]

Since I am the one that started this thread, several years ago, I wanted to post here at this point to give my thoughts on what has transpired recently. Last spring, I was contacted by Chuck Pritzel, who told me that Joe wanted to get back into selling snakes on the Source, and that the only way that this could work would be if I somehow got compensated from the sales. So he and Connie Hurley worked out this auction deal where I would get half the proceeds. Theoretically, I would get that half of sales until I was made whole for what was owed me. This was fine by me, as anything I got from this process was greater than the alternative (which was zero). If someone wants to make amends for a past misdeed, I am always in favor of allowing for the possibility of redemption. It was never my intent to prevent Joe from selling snakes forever – in fact, as I have stated, the only reason I went public with this in the first place was that it appeared to me at the time (again, almost three years ago) that Joe was going to try to go about his business and ignore his issues with me as if they didn’t exist. Believe me, getting into public unpleasantness was only an absolute last resort – those of you who may be acquainted with me know that I am a very private person when it comes to personal matters.

So the auction went on for a while and I got compensated $x dollars. Is it what was owed to me? I have no idea, to try to figure that out would be to go through past records of what was sent and try to figure out what they should have sold for three years ago. I have no intention of doing that, as it is a chapter of my life that is closed and I have moved on from that. So from my perspective, I am fine with what I received, as anything greater than zero is a plus, and there is no reason strictly on my behalf to hold anything over Joe’s head anymore.

I do greatly appreciate the fact that I have so many friends out there who came to my defense on this issue over the past several years. In fact, I had no idea how many friends I really did have in this community until I received the outpouring of support that came out of this episode. Let me tell you that this compensation has meant as much to me as any monetary amount that could have been due me.

As a final note, please appreciate as stated above that this is a closed chapter in my life, and this is the only time I intend to respond to this issue. I am only doing this at this point because several individuals have pointed out to me that people have recently been asking about whether I have been compensated or not, so I felt in fairness that I should state publicly that I am fine with the solution that was arrived at. This is intended only in reference to Joe's issues with me personally, and not as a commentary on anything that may have gone on with other individuals.

Many thanks to my good friends Chuck Pritzel and Connie Hurley for being the intermediaries in arranging the auctions through the Source.

Richard Hume

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

I'm glad you received a satisfactory resolution, Rich...I'm real glad...But his actions for the past 3+ years not only towards you, but others is inexcusable.

Keep in mind to those who read this that if you consider purchasing from Joe, consider carefully those high dollar hets as some never prove out.

 

[mike17l]

Rich, So glad to get some confirmation that yes you were compensated to a degree that suits you. Glad Joe took care of one problem.

But, IMO, Joe Pierce still needs to personally account for all his past actions. from Credit Card scams, to high end hets not proving out, to sick snakes, to derogatory name calling, to ripping people (like Rich) off. Like Stephanie, I too choose to not buy animals from Joe, not just because of what was done to Rich, but because of everything I have read and heard from many many different sources.

 

[wstphal]

Rich, thanks for posting! Both for going public with the initial problem, and for your graciousness in the post from yesterday.

 

[DAND]

Since I am the one that started this thread, several years ago, I wanted to post here at this point to give my thoughts on what has transpired recently. Last spring, I was contacted by Chuck Pritzel, who told me that Joe wanted to get back into selling snakes on the Source, and that the only way that this could work would be if I somehow got compensated from the sales. So he and Connie Hurley worked out this auction deal where I would get half the proceeds. Theoretically, I would get that half of sales until I was made whole for what was owed me. This was fine by me, as anything I got from this process was greater than the alternative (which was zero). If someone wants to make amends for a past misdeed, I am always in favor of allowing for the possibility of redemption. It was never my intent to prevent Joe from selling snakes forever – in fact, as I have stated, the only reason I went public with this in the first place was that it appeared to me at the time (again, almost three years ago) that Joe was going to try to go about his business and ignore his issues with me as if they didn’t exist. Believe me, getting into public unpleasantness was only an absolute last resort – those of you who may be acquainted with me know that I am a very private person when it comes to personal matters.

So the auction went on for a while and I got compensated $x dollars. Is it what was owed to me? I have no idea, to try to figure that out would be to go through past records of what was sent and try to figure out what they should have sold for three years ago. I have no intention of doing that, as it is a chapter of my life that is closed and I have moved on from that. So from my perspective, I am fine with what I received, as anything greater than zero is a plus, and there is no reason strictly on my behalf to hold anything over Joe’s head anymore.

I do greatly appreciate the fact that I have so many friends out there who came to my defense on this issue over the past several years. In fact, I had no idea how many friends I really did have in this community until I received the outpouring of support that came out of this episode. Let me tell you that this compensation has meant as much to me as any monetary amount that could have been due me.

As a final note, please appreciate as stated above that this is a closed chapter in my life, and this is the only time I intend to respond to this issue. I am only doing this at this point because several individuals have pointed out to me that people have recently been asking about whether I have been compensated or not, so I felt in fairness that I should state publicly that I am fine with the solution that was arrived at. This is intended only in reference to Joe's issues with me personally, and not as a commentary on anything that may have gone on with other individuals.

Many thanks to my good friends Chuck Pritzel and Connie Hurley for being the intermediaries in arranging the auctions through the Source.

Richard Hume

Rich,

I'm glad you at least got something out of this finally. Unfortunately Joe wasn't man enough to make things right with you. It should not have been up to Chuck and Connie to step up to make things right between you and joe. I guess it just shows it is best to avoid joe at all costs. He is certainly not someone who I would suggest doing business with.

Kudos to Chuck and Connie for all their help!!!!!!!

 

[starsevol]

Rich, you are a class act all the way!

 

[Jessa]

Well he's lost one customer here, although that was before this thread, with his abuse and sexist comments towards someone he had a breeding loan with. If he finds estrogen so problematic surely he can do without my tainted money To my knowledge he never apologized or made amends for that, either.
.

Also, after such a out of line and undesurved relentless on Kat's personal character (something Joe seems to dole out like cheap party favours and projects onto other people), Kat's only resonce was, "I'm sorry you feel that way Joe. I had no idea."

I think many people were baffled thats this was her only responce, to me it proved that Kat was in NO WAY a hormonally crazed woman as Joe claimed.

Live, learn, and don't repeate mistakes. I guess non of us can really prevent the inevitable new comer from buying from Joe, but together we can do something.

Rich, I'm very glad to hear you were finally comensated. My first question when I saw the photo thread that upseted me so much was, "how much of this money went to those who are owed, such as Rich?"
It's great news, but it still doesn't clear Joe's name in my opinion due to all the other people he has stolen from or personally attacked.

 

[Jessa]

*Edit: First line should read

Also, after such a out of line and undesurved relentless attack on Kat's personal character (something Joe seems to dole out like cheap party favours and projects onto other people), Kat's only resonce was, "I'm sorry you feel that way Joe. I had no idea."

 

[inocntkitn187]

I posted here a while back that Joe had refused to refund or respond when he shipped me two corns by 2nd Day Mail. Though it did take him a long while to resurface, he has redeemed himself by sending me two older snakes of the same genetics and of higher value. They are eating and thriving and I have no hard feeling against Joe. It has indeed made me wary of purchasing snakes, but that's typical of all online purchases. If anyone wants more details, please email me. I'll answer any questions I can.

 

[Vinman]

Kristy your one of the lucky ones

 

[T and J's Corns]

Caveat Emptor... This thread really needs to keep on top..

 

[T and J's Corns]

See thee above needed this attachement...


Tim of T and J Not Jennifer..

 

[mike17l]

Caveat Emptor... This thread really needs to keep on top..

Yes it does , too bad it isn't stickied.

 

[Jeff Linkchorst]

Has anyone else gotten Reimbursement? I doubt it. Just wondering.