Bad Guy Jon Boone (Bad business agreement)

[Bobby Douglass]

Did you offer to pay when mid June came and he told you it was too late? If not, you broke the agreement.


Have you made him aware of this thread?

 

[Wolfy-hound]

A year is waaay too long in my opinion to expect someone to hold a deal AND animals for you. If I were you, I'd consider myself truly lucky to have a seller who is still willing to allow me to use that original deposit for something else. It doesn't matter if the deposit was $900 or $50. If you couldn't come up with the additional $900, you normally would forfeit the deposit entirely.

If you think it's no big deal to ask him to hold what you consider to be "your" animals, perhaps you should see how much it would have cost you to pay for boarding per day? Even at $10/day, that's a LOT of money. It's not just the cost of 'crickets'. He has to care for them, heat them, water and clean, feed and check them... all for animals that he can't breed, and can't replace with animals he CAN breed, all because you are buying them. But you never bought them. To say he did a "bad business agreement" when YOU failed to pay for a year is rather ridiculous in my opinion.

 

[Avangel Reptiles]

My deposit was $100 but that doesn't make a bit of difference. You asked in your first post if we thought you or him were wrong in this situation but it doesn't appear you're prepared to accept opinions that go against yours. Have you made him aware of this thread?

He refuses to answer my emails this was ultimately my last option, and no didn't inform him. I know I asked for your opinions but it constantly seems that no ones sees his mistakes. A time limit was never set. In May when I said can I pay the balance he told me to send him the email pertaining to what he was to ship to me which indicated he was okay with the time frame of how long it was that the initial agreement was made and then he just does a 180 and says I'm canceling the contract. It just seems no is noticing his faults as well.

 

[Lucille]

no ones sees his mistakes.

Perhaps that should tell you something?

 

[Bobby Douglass]

He refuses to answer my emails this was ultimately my last option, and no didn't inform him. I know I asked for your opinions but it constantly seems that no ones sees his mistakes. A time limit was never set. In May when I said can I pay the balance he told me to send him the email pertaining to what he was to ship to me which indicated he was okay with the time frame of how long it was that the initial agreement was made and then he just does a 180 and says I'm canceling the contract. It just seems no is noticing his faults as well.

I don't know either one of you so I'm just going by the info provided. I agree that it would have been nice of him to warn you that you were running out of time but I don't feel he was obligated to do so. We're you ABLE to pay mid June like you said you would?

 

[Avangel Reptiles]

A year is waaay too long in my opinion to expect someone to hold a deal AND animals for you. If I were you, I'd consider myself truly lucky to have a seller who is still willing to allow me to use that original deposit for something else. It doesn't matter if the deposit was $900 or $50. If you couldn't come up with the additional $900, you normally would forfeit the deposit entirely.

If you think it's no big deal to ask him to hold what you consider to be "your" animals, perhaps you should see how much it would have cost you to pay for boarding per day? Even at $10/day, that's a LOT of money. It's not just the cost of 'crickets'. He has to care for them, heat them, water and clean, feed and check them... all for animals that he can't breed, and can't replace with animals he CAN breed, all because you are buying them. But you never bought them. To say he did a "bad business agreement" when YOU failed to pay for a year is rather ridiculous in my opinion.

Actually it wasn't a year just yet. Don't give me that boarding stuff, please spare me. I've done the calculation. He is not getting a wage to raise these animals. Please can somebody that has made or gotten a $800 + deposit say something. $50 barely fills my gas tank up, $900 pays 3 months worth of my car note. There is a difference.

 

[Avangel Reptiles]

I don't know either one of you so I'm just going by the info provided. I agree that it would have been nice of him to warn you that you were running out of time but I don't feel he was obligated to do so. We're you ABLE to pay mid June like you said you would?

When I tried to pay mid-June that is when he changed his mind and that is how it got to this point. Actually him not replying back to my emails anymore is what got it to this point.

 

[Matt2979]

Chaz, I see the point that you feel like everyone is overlooking--common courtesy would be to let you know that you either have to make a payment or "such and such penalty will apply" type of thing...BUT you really need to take responsibility for your own actions, too! After ALL this time, you told him that you would pay off the balance a few months ago. Did you ever send him that payment? Obviously not.

Personally, I prefer make sure to make my TOS painfully obvious up front, especially the part about me not holding any animal without a 25% non-refundable deposit. I don't care if it's $100 or $10,000, I will not refund 25% of the purchase price if you change your mind OR if you cannot keep your end of the deal.

I never want to "take" anyone's money, and it sounds like Mr Boone feels the same, as he offered a nice (IMO) alternative for you. I'm not sure what more you could expect from this transaction.

Have you made Jon aware of this thread? I would really like to hear his side, too.

 

[Bobby Douglass]

When I tried to pay mid-June that is when he changed his mind and that is how it got to this point. Actually him not replying back to my emails anymore is what got it to this point.

Can you post all e-mails from June?

 

[Avangel Reptiles]

Perhaps that should tell you something?

Nope. I quote, "Do onto others as you would have them do onto you." That right there is out of the Bible. All I wanted him to do is warn me as I would have done the same. I treat people the same way I want to be treated and on many occasions I had apologize for taking so long. I still do, but he refuses to email me back. I have dealt with a lot of customers and on many occasions when it is there fault I am patient with them, when it is mine I fix it. I just expected the same courtesy that was all.

 

[Bobby Douglass]

Have you made Jon aware of this thread? I would really like to hear his side, too.

I e-mailed him and he is going to post his side.

 

[Avangel Reptiles]

Can you post all e-mails from June?

I sent all that I had. Paypal says 1.1 for Capri w/red eyes and then the chodros 1.2 for $1800 shipped. I paid $900 and now I just have to pay $900 more. It says all that in the email.

Sent from my iPhone
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[Available (video enabled)] chaz stewart to Jon

show details Aug 8

Is it ok that I pay you the balance so I may have my geckos shipped please?
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[Available (video enabled)] chaz stewart to Jon

show details Aug 15

Here is another reminder email about the balance due. I would either like to get the balance paid off or my money back. This seems almost as if it is becoming too much of a hassle. Thank you. If you need to contact me, my number is 626 209 9610
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Jon & Stacy Boone to me

show details Aug 15


Let me start by saying that first of all, I frequently travel in and out of the USA due to obligations in Europe, Africa and the Caribbean all with respect to gecko-related work. So, I might not be able to answer your emails within a few days, and occasionally within a couple of weeks. Since the original inquiry for the geckos you wanted was initiated in September/October of last year, and then first payment sent on November 18, 2010, your communication with me was essentially absent. We had agreed to you paying off the balance of your purchase immediately after the Pomona show in January 2011. I heard and received nothing after that show. Days before the January 2011 Pomona show you inquired about the care of the geckos you were purchasing, as you were intending on purchasing the geckos (apparently with funds generated by your sales at that show) immediately thereafter. When I responded a week later, I included an article that covered the husbandry of Colopus, geckos which share the habitat with Ptenopus carpi. You then confirmed getting the care info and never sent the money. The next I heard from you was in May of this year, presumably as a precursor to anticipated funds you might generate through sales at the San Diego Reptile Super show in June 2011, to complete the purchase that you had initialized in October 2010 by stating:





-----Original Message-----
From: Chaz Stewart [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:56 AM
To: Jon & Stacy Boone
Subject: Geckos



I will be paying the rest of the balance mid-June. Will you be able to ship by then?



Sent from my iPhone=



A few days later, I received the following message from you:



-----Original Message-----
From: Chaz Stewart [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 11:19 AM
To: Jon Boone
Subject: Re: Geckos



I sent all that I had. Paypal says 1.1 for Capri w/red eyes and then the chodros 1.2 for $1800 shipped. I paid $900 and now I just have to pay $900 more. It says all that in the email.



Sent from my iPhone



So, the summary of our deal is as follows:

· I had young viable animals set aside for you to purchase as of September/October 2010. In respect of that, I did not breed those animals so that the purchaser (you) could do so himself.

· Our original agreement was for you to send the balance of your purchase in January 2011, immediately following the January 2011 Pomona, CA show. You did not.

· I fed and cared for animals during the austral season (breeding season that I accommodate here by breeding animals during the Australian/South African/South American summer = our winter) and did not breed them.

· No contact from you for another 4 months, until the message copied above (on May 21, 2011) stating you would pay the balance by mid-June. You did not.

· Next contact from you was not until August 8, 2011, some 75 days later, in which you state is it OK for you to pay the balance and have your geckos shipped = some 10 months after we first set up your purchase; 9 months after your deposit; 7 months after the agreement date for your purchase to be completed.



Summary of issues:

· Industry standard for live commodities (they do not live forever) of deposit being lost if the agreement is not fulfilled by the purchaser within the agreed time frame of purchase, in our case, January 2011.

· Lost breeding season (for you or I = I since I was caring for the animals and they were not paid for in full) on a pair of Ptenopus carpi and 1.2 Chondrodactylus, with the reproductive potential and financial productivity of $10,000 in a year for either of us:

1. each female Chondro produces 10 fertile eggs/year; 2 females 20 fertile eggs/year; @ $200 for each juvenile = $4000 potential/one year.

2. a single female Ptenopus carpi produces 8 eggs/year; @ $750 for each juvenile = $6000 potential/one year.



· The animals you agreed to purchase almost a year ago were priced to you at very low prices due to my need for the funds at that time to help offset some travel expenses I was facing at that time. Since the deal was never finished in a reasonable timeframe, it was necessary for me to secure funds by other sources. Meaning, that today I would never sell the animals for that cheap, because a 1.1 Ptenopus carpi sells alone for $1750/pair. 1.2 Chondrodactylus sell for $250-300each, and juveniles for $200each. The geckos I offered you were at an attractive 72% of fair market value (I have receipts from other purchases of these species from other buyers at these prices) and bizarrely you never finished this “brother-in-law” deal at these prices – or at least within the agreement terms that we both agreed to.

· <<<<” This seems almost as if it is becoming too much of a hassle.”>>>> ??? JJJ



So, today we’re both left wondering what to do. Legally, I do not owe you a dime as every other seller in my position would not refund your deposit at all, as I (and you, had you finished the purchase in January of this year) lost production from these animals this year. Now, the animals are a year older than they were when we first discussed this deal. However, I do not operate under such strict restrictions and will find a way for you to take part of your deposit and apply it towards the purchase of geckos that I have at this time today (not October 2010) and at the prices today (verifiable by paypal receipts for the same species within the last 90 days; and not 72% value prices of October 2010) – and thereby work with you. Otherwise, the deal and prices that we agreed on last year is off and finished. If you would like to apply a % of your deposit (although not legally necessary on my part) towards a purchase today, please let me know. Again, against the industry standard of losing deposits on live commodities if not paid in full by agreed date, I do not mind working with you to find a peaceful and manageable solution for you.

If, by chance, you are left with resentment over this deal and just prefer to have your deposit returned, please remember that deposits are lost and not refunded for deals that are not finished within the timeframe that you agreed upon (twice: January 2011, June 2011). If I were in your position, I would be humbly supportive of whatever the seller would do to help me in this situation. Obviously, the choice is yours.



Only choices I see possible:

1. You want a refund today – and not getting a refund and arguing about it with no legal means for doing so (waste of your time and to some degree mine).

2. You becoming frustrated and angry and just walking away and not requesting a refund (since legally not due to you). Not sure if that’s a waste of your time or not – I would think so monetarily.

3. You want to apply your deposit towards animals I have available today, and then contingent upon my willingness and your cooperation, apply a percentage (50% and/or upwards of 100%) towards the purchase of currently available animals at current prices.

Let me know what you would like to do and if you prefer to move forward with a purchase of some sort, I will send you my current list and we can go from there.



Respectfully,

Jon









From: chaz stewart [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 9:25 AM
To: Jon Boone
Subject: Re: Geckos
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[Available (video enabled)] chaz stewart to Jon

show details Aug 15

I read your email thoroughly and I don't know if you quite remember a statement you had made to me was that If I was to pay half then I have the choice of when I will be able to pay off the rest of the balance. I understand clearly from a business stand point of what you are stating but if it was me on your end I would have contacted the buyer (being me) and did a follow up. I never attended a San Diego showing at all sorry you were misinformed about that. I really want the reptiles but at the original price we agreed on. If I had an exact time line on when the balance was to be paid I would not have waited so long. I am sorry I couldn't afford to pay you in the time frame that you wanted or that I said I would try and pay you in. I don't want to argue about this or make this more difficult then this has been but I paid you $900 of my hard earned money that I don't have much of and I am trying to pay the last of this balance. I understand you frequently travel and in our may discussion you were trying to get an exact on what it was your were shipping me, I was very compliant and when I asked to pay the balance I received no follow up message from you at all. Even through all this I trust in the utmost manner that if I send you the $900 balance you would still send me the product I agreed on. What does upset me though is that as soon as I ask for a refund you reply almost immediately. I just want what I asked for and I will gladly pay you the balance in a 2 weeks time frame of $900. Thank you.

 

[Bobby Douglass]

Chaz all those appear to be from May and August. Which ones are from June?

 

[Avangel Reptiles]

Chaz, I see the point that you feel like everyone is overlooking--common courtesy would be to let you know that you either have to make a payment or "such and such penalty will apply" type of thing...BUT you really need to take responsibility for your own actions, too! After ALL this time, you told him that you would pay off the balance a few months ago. Did you ever send him that payment? Obviously not.

Personally, I prefer make sure to make my TOS painfully obvious up front, especially the part about me not holding any animal without a 25% non-refundable deposit. I don't care if it's $100 or $10,000, I will not refund 25% of the purchase price if you change your mind OR if you cannot keep your end of the deal.

I never want to "take" anyone's money, and it sounds like Mr Boone feels the same, as he offered a nice (IMO) alternative for you. I'm not sure what more you could expect from this transaction.

Have you made Jon aware of this thread? I would really like to hear his side, too.

Look at what you said in red. Funny because he kept his open ended me saying I was going to pay is me keeping my end of the deal. Him just canceling with no warning is him not keeping up with it.

I emailed him already.

 

[Avangel Reptiles]

Chaz all those appear to be from May and August. Which ones are from June?

That's how many times I had to message him before he messaged me back. I gave him a month since he said he was traveling around the "world" that is why there is no June messages.

 

[RobNJ]

Chaz, I'll ask again...during the 6+ months you were having trouble getting $900 together, did you think of presenting yourself to Jon in a humble manner, tell him that maybe you bit off a little more than you could chew, and try to come up with an agreeable payment plan in smaller increments?

As the buyer, you should have set a date as to when you would have had the balance paid in full. Any animal I purchase on a payment plan, I ask the breeder/seller, "can I deposit $x.xx today and have the remainder paid in full by Thursday dd/mm?" I am sure beforehand that I will be able to pay in full by set date, preferably before. I never ask for a long period of time to pay off an animal, as if I need such a long time, I probably should not be buying said animal. I've even been offered a VERY generous payment plan for a high dollar animal, and though hard to refuse, I had to turn down the offer. Point is, it is your money that you are spending, so you need to thoroughly dictate how/when/why you're spending it and understand the consequences if you cannot pay what is due within a reasonable time frame. Jon is now lending you the courtesy of using your deposit as credit to purchase what you want, only at a new price...take him up on it before you insult him and he takes away that courtesy.

 

[Bobby Douglass]

That's how many times I had to message him before he messaged me back. I gave him a month since he said he was traveling around the "world" that is why there is no June messages.

You said you'd pay mid June. You had his paypal address. You should have payed when you said you would.

 

[RobNJ]

And, I personally would never ask someone to lower the price on an already lowered price tag if I had to pay in installments...that's just me.

 

[Matt2979]

Look at what you said in red. Funny because he kept his open ended me saying I was going to pay is me keeping my end of the deal. Him just canceling with no warning is him not keeping up with it.

I emailed him already.

Actually, saying you're going to pay is not keeping your end of the deal. Paying WHEN you say you will is.

As Robert Rybicki (RobNJ) pointed out, there are no e-mails saying that you need more time, are having trouble coming up with the promised $900...not anything to that effect. How long do you think he should have waited for the remaining $900?

 

[Avangel Reptiles]

Chaz, I'll ask again...during the 6+ months you were having trouble getting $900 together, did you think of presenting yourself to Jon in a humble manner, tell him that maybe you bit off a little more than you could chew, and try to come up with an agreeable payment plan in smaller increments?

As the buyer, you should have set a date as to when you would have had the balance paid in full. Any animal I purchase on a payment plan, I ask the breeder/seller, "can I deposit $x.xx today and have the remainder paid in full by Thursday dd/mm?" I am sure beforehand that I will be able to pay in full by set date, preferably before. I never ask for a long period of time to pay off an animal, as if I need such a long time, I probably should not be buying said animal. I've even been offered a VERY generous payment plan for a high dollar animal, and though hard to refuse, I had to turn down the offer. Point is, it is your money that you are spending, so you need to thoroughly dictate how/when/why you're spending it and understand the consequences if you cannot pay what is due within a reasonable time frame. Jon is now lending you the courtesy of using your deposit as credit to purchase what you want, only at a new price...take him up on it before you insult him and he takes away that courtesy.

I did not humbly tell him I bit off more then I could chew, why because I had every intention to pay the balance. When I had the money, things came up. Oh but I forgot everybody else in this world is perfect and things just don't come up.

This is frustrating. If this ever happens to one of y'all I'll be sure to refer you to this post and say get ready these sharks don't allow things to just happen.

He should have set a time frame, I don't care if a year is a long time or not. He should have covered his behind on every end. You guys are probably the type of people that if a person posted the wrong morph on a thread, you would to pieces publicly instead of telling him through private message. He didn't have to warn me, yeah right. Are you all really that blind? A car note, a credit card, a house note, it doesn't matter what it is, if you don't pay your monthly they give you a warning. If you don't comply within the warning time frame they cancel your contract. Open your eyes, he was dead on wrong for not warning me. If you all agree that he was not wrong for not warning me, then how is that good customer service, how is that being a good owner. I would not have posted this if he would have warned me.