Bad Guy Jon Boone (Bad business agreement)

[Avangel Reptiles]

Actually, saying you're going to pay is not keeping your end of the deal. Paying WHEN you say you will is.

As Robert Rybicki (RobNJ) pointed out, there are no e-mails saying that you need more time, are having trouble coming up with the promised $900...not anything to that effect. How long do you think he should have waited for the remaining $900?

I guess he could have waited until, one I paid him or two, he sent me a warning. I was going to Pay June be he changed it. So I couldn't pay him, I was going to pay him August, but he never replied back. There was no need for an email saying I need more time, just an email saying I'm about to pay you, are you ready to receive.

 

[ShadowAceD]

Look at what you said in red. Funny because he kept his open ended me saying I was going to pay is me keeping my end of the deal. Him just canceling with no warning is him not keeping up with it.

I emailed him already.

Chaz, it's time to take responsibility for your actions, or lack thereof.

Jon did not need to give you a warning on cancelling the deal. Why? Because you created the deadline yourself and you failed to stick to that deadline not once, but twice. Since you yourself told Jon that you would be completing the deal in January and then again in June, that was the deadline. That was your warning to get things done.

What did you expect? For him to just be fine with you constantly extending the deadline for yourself? It does not work that way. Let me tell you, most big boys in this industry would have told you that you are plain SOL and they owe you nothing. His offer to you? Beyond generous.

I would not have given you anything. A deposit is money given specifically to hold an item or object with the expectation that the deposit will multiply into the full amount within a reasonable time frame. Nine months is not a reasonable time frame when you are sitting there giving the deadlines yourself. You can sit here all day and whine and moan about how the deal was open ended, but you really shot yourself in the foot with it. The deadline came from you, it was in your control, you took it for granted and now you need to deal with the consequences here.

Jon sat there and for nine months provided care and space to animals he had every intention of moving out. Animals you stated you were going to buy from him. It's not hard to see why he eventually lost faith in you.

Jon did not wrong you, you wronged yourself.

Accept Jon's deal or walk away. You do not deserve that 900.00 back and, legally, you do not have a leg to stand on. Take this as a loss and a harsh lesson learned.

 

[Bobby Douglass]

I guess he could have waited until, one I paid him or two, he sent me a warning. I was going to Pay June be he changed it. So I couldn't pay him, I was going to pay him August, but he never replied back. There was no need for an email saying I need more time, just an email saying I'm about to pay you, are you ready to receive.

Can you point out where he changed it?

 

[Avangel Reptiles]

And, I personally would never ask someone to lower the price on an already lowered price tag if I had to pay in installments...that's just me.

You may not, but there is a word called negotiation and that is what I did. We all bargain shop when we buy, so don't give me that you wouldn't ask for a lower price. He didn't have to sell it to me at that price, he chose to do so.

 

[ShadowAceD]

I did not humbly tell him I bit off more then I could chew, why because I had every intention to pay the balance. When I had the money, things came up. Oh but I forgot everybody else in this world is perfect and things just don't come up.

This is frustrating. If this ever happens to one of y'all I'll be sure to refer you to this post and say get ready these sharks don't allow things to just happen.

He should have set a time frame, I don't care if a year is a long time or not. He should have covered his behind on every end. You guys are probably the type of people that if a person posted the wrong morph on a thread, you would to pieces publicly instead of telling him through private message. He didn't have to warn me, yeah right. Are you all really that blind? A car note, a credit card, a house note, it doesn't matter what it is, if you don't pay your monthly they give you a warning. If you don't comply within the warning time frame they cancel your contract. Open your eyes, he was dead on wrong for not warning me. If you all agree that he was not wrong for not warning me, then how is that good customer service, how is that being a good owner. I would not have posted this if he would have warned me.

So your lack of communication with him is due to embracing imperfection? Might want to try another route next time. How is he supposed to know how your life is unless you talk to him? How is he supposed to asses the situation without you letting him know what is going on? Ridiculous.

Again, you set the timeline yourself and you failed to pay up in that timeline on duplicate occassions. Not Jon's fault. Yours.

 

[snared99]

I normally dont get into BOI threads but i do see a few things unprofessional here.

I personally think a year is way too long for a payment plan, and as a business owner would never comply with those terms. But also as good customer relations I check back with the customer to see how things are going. No I do not travel the world like Mr. Boone does.

The door does swing both ways though. Chaz could have easily sent a email saying he is having issues gathering the rest of the monies and came to a different agreement, maybe only $900 worth of the order since the deposit was there????

We also have to keep in mind here Mr. Boone is keeping/breeding animals that are not everyday animals in collections. And by not breeding them for a year can cost him much more. I think he was doing a heck of a favor giving the animals at that low a price and then also holding them that long without reproduction.

Personally if it was me in this situation I would refund a portion of the deposit or offer a $900 credit. I do not think it is fair to offer the total refund on animals that were on hold that long. It is not the prinicpal of feeding/cleaning, yet the prinicpal that he probably could have sold them multiple times over.

A wise breeder once told me........It is not when you run into difficult situations in this industry, it is how you handle them.

 

[Avangel Reptiles]

Chaz, it's time to take responsibility for your actions, or lack thereof.

Jon did not need to give you a warning on cancelling the deal. Why? Because you created the deadline yourself and you failed to stick to that deadline not once, but twice. Since you yourself told Jon that you would be completing the deal in January and then again in June, that was the deadline. That was your warning to get things done.

What did you expect? For him to just be fine with you constantly extending the deadline for yourself? It does not work that way. Let me tell you, most big boys in this industry would have told you that you are plain SOL and they owe you nothing. His offer to you? Beyond generous.

I would not have given you anything. A deposit is money given specifically to hold an item or object with the expectation that the deposit will multiply into the full amount within a reasonable time frame. Nine months is not a reasonable time frame when you are sitting there giving the deadlines yourself. You can sit here all day and whine and moan about how the deal was open ended, but you really shot yourself in the foot with it. The deadline came from you, it was in your control, you took it for granted and now you need to deal with the consequences here.

Jon sat there and for nine months provided care and space to animals he had every intention of moving out. Animals you stated you were going to buy from him. It's not hard to see why he eventually lost faith in you.

Jon did not wrong you, you wronged yourself.

Accept Jon's deal or walk away. You do not deserve that 900.00 back and, legally, you do not have a leg to stand on. Take this as a loss and a harsh lesson learned.

Funny how you say big boys, I'm assuming you aren't one. All I said was I was going to pay him and honestly I was but he failed to reply back.

 

[ShadowAceD]

Funny how you say big boys, I'm assuming you aren't one. All I said was I was going to pay him and honestly I was but he failed to reply back.

Yes, because to have any insight, whatsoever in this industry, you need to be one of the "big boys". Your arrogance has a lot to do with your situation and it bleeds from your typing in such a way I would not be surprised if my keyboard began to malfunction from the residual of the flood.

You are going to sit here and act like a kid who had his milk money wrongfully stolen by the neighborhood bully, but really, you are just someone who let your pride get the better of you. Apparently, you are far too good to go and let someone know when things in your life are going wrong and ask for leniency. Because of this, it is the fault of that person for not understanding that happens.

Well, allow me to educate you here, since you seem to be missing a really large picture in this whole situation. This industry, as with any industry dealing in sales, is full of flakes, liars and second thinkers. People will throw deposits on animals and then revoke them because of buyer's remorse or whatever else they feel justifies it. In order for a seller to be able to protect themselves, deposits become non-refundable to keep situations like this from happening.

I am sorry you lost 900.00. That sucks, it really does. I know I do not have 900.00 to lose at this moment, but I also do not commit to things I cannot follow through with. You bit off more than you could chew, it happens. Pot holes kept popping up down your road and causing you to stall. Again, it happens, but you need to communicate that to people. Jon seems reasonable, Jon seems like a man who would have worked with you, Jon was not happy with how you treated the situation.

Grow up and looks at it from all perspectives, not just yours.

 

[Matt2979]

I want to know if you think him or I am wrong in the situation, also what would you do if you were in my predicament.

Chaz, I honestly think you are in the wrong. IF I found myself in your predicament, I would have apologized for my lack of communication and follow-thru, and then taken Jon up on his offer to use the deposit towards a different purchase.

If you were sincerely asking for honest opinions, I just shared mine.

 

[Shadera]

I did something similar to this several years ago, before I had much savvy in the hobby. I sent a deposit, and was given a generous year to pay for the animals. I thought I had a year to pay for it, and didn't think much about not making timely regular payments, even if they were small. My communication sucked for air too.

I brought it to the BOI when the seller refused to refund my deposit, and acted much as you are acting now. I didn't see it then, but I did eventually see how I was wrong once I started selling animals of my own.

Unfortunately, I burnt a bridge that could have benefited us both someday, and when I actually did get around to sending an emailed apology she didn't reply. Not that I blame her after the way I acted.

Sometimes, you just have to admit you're wrong, and pick battles that are worth fighting. I wish you the best.

 

[wyldwurm]

I think I would have to agree that this is just a difficult customer. A YEAR? 'comeon! With all the time invested in the emails alone, not to mention the care of the animals, I think Jon was MORE than patient waiting for the rest of his money.
I'm sorry, but the amount of the deposit does not matter. If it's 100 or 100,00, it's all the same. Deposits are normally non refundable. You could have sent payments as a good faith gesture, you didn't. Seriously, 900 is a lot of money for some of us, myself included, but I also know that I don't spend over my means, and deposits are non refundable.
I think Jon was VERY nice with his offer. You should have taken it.


On a side note, reading Jon's emails leads me to believe he is VERY knowledgeable and quite easy to do business with. I have bookmarked his website for future reference.

 

[Avangel Reptiles]

This will be my final comment to all of this. I had to take a break from this because I was getting frustrated with everyone's comments. So I am going to clear up a few things really quick.

I am wrong for trying to wait an entire year to try and purchase the geckos, and with all of this happening I really never even wanted to post this thread but I did and now I have to deal with it.

As I have read through everyone's comments I have came across a common comment, which states that in some situations that if your customer failed to pay the balance that you stayed on that person about paying the balance or you gave the money back. Or for the people on the other end you got in touch with the seller stating you can not pay the balance.

All I am indicating is what all you have is communication with buyer or the seller. Once again I was wrong for not staying on top of it like I have should.

Now what I want to get to is this from a seller's stand point $900 to give back to the buyer is a lot to give back so I agree with everyone and even Jon in stating we can work something else out because I would not want to try and give the $900 back either.

But in this case I want you all to understand something and this is the reason why I am leaving this thread alone after this message. No one that has made a comment has put $900 deposit down, no one so you are not in my position. I feel as if a child is telling me about life. You can't.

Jon on the other end is a very good business man to an extent. The man is known for being impossible to get in contact with. The only times after everything that he get in contact with me was one when I asked for my money back because he refused to message me and second when you all messaged him about this thread. He has been avoiding me.

The other reason why I am leaving this thread alone is because even though I have taken almost a year to try and pay a balance him trying to work a new deal with me is not a win win situation for me. He failed to communicate on many occasions, all all of y'all are doing is blaming me for taking almost a year. Time vs Money is way different by comparison.

All I hear from you is I am bad for not communicating and he should not have to communicate. It goes both ways and he did not communicate with me on his part.

With the fact that I breed and sell reptiles, I honestly stay on potential customers, I offer great prices and quality reptiles, I am just as busy but yet anytime I get an email I respond back right away. Jon could have messaged me back anytime, because in his messages on the bottom it says sent through Iphone and this was before Verizon got a hold of it so I am assuming he has at&t which would allow him to get emails or phone calls anywhere he was. So I bid this thread goodbye because none of you are in my shoes about a $900 deposit and all of you actually agree with me because you all contradict yourselves when you say you communicate with your depositors or sellers I would rather deal with you guys because you communicate until the very end.

Communication is everything. I did about 75% when I should have done more and he did 25%.

I will deal with this in my own way now and thank you all for your comments and opinions. Goodbye.

 

[RobNJ]

Chaz, just because 2 people gave $ amounts of deposits they have made doesn't mean it's safe to assume that no one who has responded to this thread has put down an equal or greater amount than you have. The difference is, that those who put down significant deposits is that they usually pay within a reasonable amount of time. So you didn't have a date set to make your payment by...but it seems that you did have a heavily implied time frame. You took the situation and Jon's kindness for granted.

Nobody here said you were bad. Nobody here said you were anything really...though foolish, irresponsible, and inconsiderate could be proper adjectives in this case. You came and asked for opinions...you got them, all honest and quite a few brutally honest. If you would have preferred we all hold your hand and say everything would be alright, you should have said so to begin with.

 

[Kristi23]

I was recently in a similar situation except as a seller. I can see both sides. For me, I kept in contact but kept getting the "I'll have the money soon" story. A year later I said that I either got the money then or the deal was off. I gave him a couple weeks to come up with it and he finally did. If he didn't, then I would have refunded what he paid minus the 20% non-refundable deposit.

I do realize that it's not the norm, but I felt bad for not setting an exact date for payment to be due. I didn't think anyone would take that long to pay. In my situation, I stayed in contact every month no matter what.

Chaz, I do think you should have tried to make smaller payments or talked to Jon about needing more time.

Jon, I think you should have e-mailed Chaz and given him a final deadline before canceling the sale.

So I can see wrongs with both sides, but I do see more wrong by not paying on time. If Jon has no specific TOS, then he can pretty much keep the money. I would use it as a credit and learn from the mistake.

Good luck to you both.

 

[Bobby Douglass]

This will be my final comment to all of this. I had to take a break from this because I was getting frustrated with everyone's comments. So I am going to clear up a few things really quick.

I am wrong for trying to wait an entire year to try and purchase the geckos, and with all of this happening I really never even wanted to post this thread but I did and now I have to deal with it.

As I have read through everyone's comments I have came across a common comment, which states that in some situations that if your customer failed to pay the balance that you stayed on that person about paying the balance or you gave the money back. Or for the people on the other end you got in touch with the seller stating you can not pay the balance.

All I am indicating is what all you have is communication with buyer or the seller. Once again I was wrong for not staying on top of it like I have should.

Now what I want to get to is this from a seller's stand point $900 to give back to the buyer is a lot to give back so I agree with everyone and even Jon in stating we can work something else out because I would not want to try and give the $900 back either.

But in this case I want you all to understand something and this is the reason why I am leaving this thread alone after this message. No one that has made a comment has put $900 deposit down, no one so you are not in my position. I feel as if a child is telling me about life. You can't.

Jon on the other end is a very good business man to an extent. The man is known for being impossible to get in contact with. The only times after everything that he get in contact with me was one when I asked for my money back because he refused to message me and second when you all messaged him about this thread. He has been avoiding me.

The other reason why I am leaving this thread alone is because even though I have taken almost a year to try and pay a balance him trying to work a new deal with me is not a win win situation for me. He failed to communicate on many occasions, all all of y'all are doing is blaming me for taking almost a year. Time vs Money is way different by comparison.

All I hear from you is I am bad for not communicating and he should not have to communicate. It goes both ways and he did not communicate with me on his part.

With the fact that I breed and sell reptiles, I honestly stay on potential customers, I offer great prices and quality reptiles, I am just as busy but yet anytime I get an email I respond back right away. Jon could have messaged me back anytime, because in his messages on the bottom it says sent through Iphone and this was before Verizon got a hold of it so I am assuming he has at&t which would allow him to get emails or phone calls anywhere he was. So I bid this thread goodbye because none of you are in my shoes about a $900 deposit and all of you actually agree with me because you all contradict yourselves when you say you communicate with your depositors or sellers I would rather deal with you guys because you communicate until the very end.

Communication is everything. I did about 75% when I should have done more and he did 25%.

I will deal with this in my own way now and thank you all for your comments and opinions. Goodbye.

Sometimes you just have to admit that you can't afford something right now. Most of us have been there before, including me. Comparing us to children because we don't agree with you sure doesn't make you look too good though.

 

[ShadowAceD]

This will be my final comment to all of this. I had to take a break from this because I was getting frustrated with everyone's comments. So I am going to clear up a few things really quick.

I am wrong for trying to wait an entire year to try and purchase the geckos, and with all of this happening I really never even wanted to post this thread but I did and now I have to deal with it.

As I have read through everyone's comments I have came across a common comment, which states that in some situations that if your customer failed to pay the balance that you stayed on that person about paying the balance or you gave the money back. Or for the people on the other end you got in touch with the seller stating you can not pay the balance.

All I am indicating is what all you have is communication with buyer or the seller. Once again I was wrong for not staying on top of it like I have should.

Now what I want to get to is this from a seller's stand point $900 to give back to the buyer is a lot to give back so I agree with everyone and even Jon in stating we can work something else out because I would not want to try and give the $900 back either.

But in this case I want you all to understand something and this is the reason why I am leaving this thread alone after this message. No one that has made a comment has put $900 deposit down, no one so you are not in my position. I feel as if a child is telling me about life. You can't.

Jon on the other end is a very good business man to an extent. The man is known for being impossible to get in contact with. The only times after everything that he get in contact with me was one when I asked for my money back because he refused to message me and second when you all messaged him about this thread. He has been avoiding me.

The other reason why I am leaving this thread alone is because even though I have taken almost a year to try and pay a balance him trying to work a new deal with me is not a win win situation for me. He failed to communicate on many occasions, all all of y'all are doing is blaming me for taking almost a year. Time vs Money is way different by comparison.

All I hear from you is I am bad for not communicating and he should not have to communicate. It goes both ways and he did not communicate with me on his part.

With the fact that I breed and sell reptiles, I honestly stay on potential customers, I offer great prices and quality reptiles, I am just as busy but yet anytime I get an email I respond back right away. Jon could have messaged me back anytime, because in his messages on the bottom it says sent through Iphone and this was before Verizon got a hold of it so I am assuming he has at&t which would allow him to get emails or phone calls anywhere he was. So I bid this thread goodbye because none of you are in my shoes about a $900 deposit and all of you actually agree with me because you all contradict yourselves when you say you communicate with your depositors or sellers I would rather deal with you guys because you communicate until the very end.

Communication is everything. I did about 75% when I should have done more and he did 25%.

I will deal with this in my own way now and thank you all for your comments and opinions. Goodbye.

Oh, that arrogance of yours. You just do not get it, do you?

Clearly, no one could know what you are going through, ever.

If you must know, to satisfy your self-absorbtion, I dropped a 1200.00 down payment a few years back on a purchase for 6100.00. I told the seller I would have the rest paid off in five months. Guess what? I did. I also dropped 250.00 down payment on a purchase of 2200.00 with the promise of paying off the remainder in four months. Guess what? I did that too.

Communication is everything, you are correct, but you also stated your own refusal in letting Jon know the problems you were having So ... again ... this is you ... .

Also, you clearly had Jon's information to send him money whenever you wished, so why you did not is beyond me. I've been on payment plans where I sent money to the seller without having to ask them anything. They let me know they got it, all is well.

There is no one here to blame but you. One day, hopefully, you will figure that out, but I doubt it.

 

[hhmoore]

Where to start.....
When "negotiating", if you don't plan on paying the agreed upon sum promptly, you need to make that known...most sellers aren't going to give price reductions for payment plans.
On 11/12, you made this statement, which certainly made it look as if you were capable of paying for your purchase.

I was just looking through my account and I can only afford $1800

Then, later in the day's exchange, you switched to

I really want them yes. I would like to put a hold on them if I can and pay you in increments

When advised that getting he would be leaving after Christmas for approx a month, you responded

I'll take them. If you don't mind, I wouldn't mind waiting until after you get back to receive them. How much should I put down

His response
You can put down 50% and I will hold them for you until you want me to ship.
Given your previous statement of waiting until he returned, I suspect that Mr Boone felt you would be sending the balance when he notified you of his return....while his choice of words was poor, any assumption that a 50% deposit leads to open ended terms is simply self serving.

I'll get you the $900 for sure and pay you the other $900 when it's time to ship?

As for the $900 you can paypal me at this email address, or I can provide you with a physical address for mailing payment if you prefer. You can send the remaining $900 whenever you want me to ship. Again, this appears based on your previous acknowledgement of having the funds available, and a desire to have the animals. Whenever you want me to ship does not imply a specific deadline - but that wasn't an invitation for you to not make payment in a timely manner, or to drag things on for months on end. You stated that you would wait until his return, which implied that you would be making the final payment in late January.
Now - the email stream was difficult to follow....but I don't see ANY communication between Nov 20 and May 21. Seems like an awfully long gap - especially for somebody making so much noise about the amount of the deposit...
There is some discussion that certainly suggests that there are emails unaccounted here.
One statement by Mr Boone shows that you contacted him in January promising payment (as would have been expected from the original conversations), and there is a reference to the Pomona show? Hopefully, one of you will fill in the blanks...preferably in a manner which can be more easily followed.

I will be paying the rest of the balance mid-June. Will you be able to ship by then?

Sorry - I've already exhausted more than the amount of time I alotted for responding, and I've got work to do. The short version is that you stretched this out way too long, and ended up dropping the ball. I don't know why you feel that you should be taken by the hand and prompted to complete your transactions, or why you feel you are entitled to anything here other than the offer of credit (in the amount of your deposit) that has been extended by the seller. You should have made the final payment...

Obviously, there is missing information which may be pertinent....
Looking forward to Mr Boone's reply.

btw (mod hat on....)

Also that post was suppose to be taken down that is why this one was made. "Obviously"

Why was that post supposed to have been taken down? I addressed the placement issues in the thread, and closed it.....I don't see any statement indicating that it would be removed, and my sent box doesn't shown indicate that I PM'd you. Doesn't really matter - no explanation required... it just seems to show a trend of deflecting responsibility.

 

[hhmoore]

it just seems to show a trend of deflecting responsibility.

That message was not meant to be in moderator blue, as it was a personal statement.

 

[SirenSanJose]

My question is, why were you waiting for him to confirm you were sending the additional payment? He clearly said "send it when you're ready". Why didn't you just paypal the other $900, instead of emailing to say "I'm going to send it", then not sending it?

 

[Wolfy-hound]

I think the issue isn't that no one else has ever put down the "massive" amount of a deposit of $900. I think the issue is that everyone who has put down a $900 deposit has followed through and PAID the remainder like they agreed to do.

Just because no one agrees with you doesn't mean that no one understands. It means no one agrees with you. Apparently since there is no one saying "Oh yes, you should totally be given your $900 back and you totally had however long you wanted to take to pay off the rest and he should have been happy to sit on those animals for years if need be!" it means that we're ALL wrong and you're right.

Frankly, I'm surprised you aren't declaring you should be given the animals for free by now. "The upkeep shouldn't matter. The lack of payment shouldn't matter. The loss of income shouldn't matter. The fact that you set the time limits shouldn't matter." All that is completely beside the point that it involves $900. You basically want someone to sit on the animals for however long that you wish to take, regardless of their money issues, plans, breeding plans, space issues, life or whatever... just because you didn't have the money to pay for the animals. You didn't pay.