Bad Guy Jon Garcia, poor transaction.

[Jon Garcia]

Sir, you post pictures (blurry at that) and continue to say there are problems with the snake even after the seller posts emails, better quality pictures and enough proof to show that you have gone way overboard when truth be told, there is nothing wrong with that snake.

My first thought when I saw the pictures was, wow what a fantastic looking snake and in very good condition at that. I will say though that this ordeal that the two of you have went through is an absolute nightmare, for the seller.

if nothing wrong w/ that snake then you purchase it

 

[bekers71]

I see no indication of mites or a bad eye. The spot that Jon wants to say is a missing scale indeed looks like bedding. IMO only money owed to the buyer is the $300.

I was just at a show last weekend a few tables down from Clint. What I can say is his animals were all top notch and healthy. Matter of fact, we traded leos at that show and the ones I got are perfect.

 

[TailsWithScales]

if nothing wrong w/ that snake then you purchase it

If I had the money I would drop it in a heart beat for that snake.

You my friend have lost out of a immaculate animal and have no put yourself on the 'do not sell to' list of every seller who reads this.

 

[TheDream]

if nothing wrong w/ that snake then you purchase it

I have come across a lot of different snakes that have nothing wrong with them, doesn't mean I have to buy each and every one. If I needed an albino, this snake would be one that I came back to.

 

[TailsWithScales]

Edit: Now put yourself

 

[Ameivaboy]

If I

You my friend have lost out of a immaculate animal and have no put yourself on the 'do not sell to' list of every seller who reads this.

I tend to avoid dealing with ball pythons like the plague- however this person is certainly on my do not sell to list.

 

[Bartley Reptiles]

YOu are that monster buyer that we all pray we won't get. YOu made up nothing but lies, gave false stories about why you couldnt possibly get a picture (everyone knows someone with a camera), and adjusted your story to fit what you wanted it to say multiple times. And to top it all off had the audacity to try and squeeze even more money out of a seller that went above and beyond what anyone would do to try and keep your off balance self happy. Stick to buying BP's at the pet store man cause you have no place in the hobby with these types of actions.

And to Clinton, dude you are a far better man than I. If the person could not have produced photos of the "defect" in question I would sure as hell not have sent him a dime. I was actually hoping beyond hope in the back of my mind, while reading this soap opera that this guy constructed, that he did not injure your snake for the sake of his story.

Thanks man. That is exactly why I was hesitant to push too hard for proof of the eye injury. I didn't want proof to be "made". Again, thanks for your input, I really appreciate it.

Clint Bartley

 

[Bartley Reptiles]

I see no indication of mites or a bad eye. The spot that Jon wants to say is a missing scale indeed looks like bedding. IMO only money owed to the buyer is the $300.

I was just at a show last weekend a few tables down from Clint. What I can say is his animals were all top notch and healthy. Matter of fact, we traded leos at that show and the ones I got are perfect.

Thanks Becky. I'm glad you are enjoying the geckos, and thanks again for the mack snow! As well as the kings last year!

Clint Bartley

 

[Jon Garcia]

buyer beware that is what i have learned from this experience

Jon Garcia (Robert Garcia in his email title) of Dana Point, CA purchased an albino ball python from me for $350 shipped. Shipping was $50 via fed ex. Upon receiving the animal, I received a voice mail along with the following email (Times on emails are Central for me, Western or whatever California is for him):

Flag this messageRe:male in pic#2Tuesday, July 27, 2010 1:44 PMFrom: This sender is DomainKeys verified"Robert garcia" <[email protected]>Add sender to ContactsTo: "Clinton Bartley" <[email protected]>Cc: "Jon Garcia" <[email protected]>His left eyeball is messed up?I don't want to keep this animal $350 is a whole lot of money to me and he should be perfect for that price?

As soon as I heard the voicemail and read the email, I replied:

--- On Tue, 7/27/10, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:


From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: male in pic#2
To: "Robert garcia" <[email protected]>
Date: Tuesday, July 27, 2010, 10:54 AM


Whoa, I never saw any issue with his eye in any way. Could you please send a picture to me asap?

Thanks,
Clint
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

Jon then called me extremely upset. He said that the snake's eye was coming out of it's head and that sking was covering half the eye. He questioned whether I had noticed the eye and I assured him that an animal with an issue like that would have never left my facility. I again asked for pictures so that I could see what the eye looked like. I told him that whether there was a problem with the animal or not, the snake could be returned to me for a refund. He said he would take some pictures and send them.

He then emailed:

Flag this messageRe: male in pic#2Tuesday, July 27, 2010 2:04 PMFrom: This sender is DomainKeys verified"Robert garcia" <[email protected]>Add sender to ContactsTo: [email protected]c: "Jon Garcia" <[email protected]>Yeah ok the only camara i have is the one on my laptop so i will take a pic right now and send it over,well if you didn't notice then i don't know what to think?Maybe something happened on the plane due to elevation?I don't know,i have had several animals shipped to me from afar never to arrive looking like this,i feel better knowing that you didn't send him to me like this knowing that would not have been cool!But i don't think i want to accept him in the condition he is in.His left eye has the skin that is supposed to be back behind the eyeball,it is out and around about half way across the lens of the eye!Not cool!This is the most i have ever payed for one of my animals and wouldn't it figure it shows up like this!I will take a pic now and send it over but i want my money back i am not paying 350 for an animal w/ a bad eye

I replied:
From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: male in pic#2
To: "Robert garcia" <[email protected]>
Date: Tuesday, July 27, 2010, 11:12 AM


I can understand your frustration. I would like to see the pic to see if it a shed eye cap that is stuck or working its way off. Trust me, I would never send an animal out that I knew to have ANY issues what so ever, as I have worked too hard to keep my reputation intact. If it truely is a defect and not a simple shedding cap (which I can walk you through how to remove), I would gladly refund your money. The snake would need to be returned to me before hand, as I'm sure you would understand.

Thanks,
Clint
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T


Jon then emailed (I will post all pics in next post):
Flag this messageRe: male in pic#2Tuesday, July 27, 2010 2:51 PMFrom: This sender is DomainKeys verified"Robert garcia" <[email protected]>Add sender to ContactsTo: [email protected]c: "Jon Garcia" <[email protected]>Message contains attachments2 Files (58KB) | Download All111102.jpg111403.jpgI am frustrated i forgot to send pics on the last email,you can't tell from the pics,so now what?

Jon immediately called me after sending the pics. He agreed with me that the pics were extremely blurry and didn't show anything. I told him that all he had to do was send me the snake and I would refund the money, no problem. It was at this point that Jon began angrily stating that he shouldn't have to pay for return shipping on a defective snake. Although no proof had been given to me and against my better judgement, I agreed to email a shipping label charging my account for the shipping as I agree, if the animal is defective, he shouldn't be out. Jon then complained of not having a printer to print the label. At this point I told him he was going to have to figure a way to use one if he is wanting to ship the animal on my account. He said he would see what he could do.

Soon after, I received this email:
Flag this messageRe: male in pic#2Tuesday, July 27, 2010 5:51 PMFrom: This sender is DomainKeys verified"Robert garcia" <[email protected]>Add sender to ContactsTo: [email protected]c: "Jon Garcia" <[email protected]>my local mail stop will print the label from my computer for me tomorrow.Besides the left eye having the skin come out the side,he also has a bunch of brown crap around his nose and under the chin and i noticed on the right side by the scales close to the right eye their is like a black spot or something strange and he has like crap or little spec of crap in his left nostral and around his mouth and brown crap under his chin and he didn't go to the bathroom in his tub on the way here so he was packed w/ that crap on his head,when you get him back look at his chin,i would refuse animal just becuase of that let alone the eye issue, this has been a nitemare for me,i have received countless snakes from kingsnake and this is the first one that came w/ brown crap around his chin anyways i just want it to end,please send my refund as soon as you get him and all will be forgotten, i will get him off to you please send my 350 back asap

Now, something happening to an eye, ok, but these "other" issues pushed my buttons. My reply:

--- On Tue, 7/27/10, Clinton Bartley <[email protected]> wrote:


From: Clinton Bartley <[email protected]>
Subject: Label
To: "Robert garcia" <[email protected]>
Date: Tuesday, July 27, 2010, 4:11 PM


The shipping label is attached. Now, let's clear a couple of things up. The brown "crap" you are referring to is cypress mulch which I keep all of my animals on. I would expect an experienced snake owner to be familiar with this. Next, a nightmare? Really? You received a snake that you have a problem with. You have offered me absolutely no proof of a problem, and your attempt at proof shows nothing. Even though I have absolutely nothing backing up what you are telling me, I have not only told you several times that I would issue you a full refund once the snake has been returned, but I have also paid for shipping back to me without any proof of a problem! A nightmare for you? Jon, that's enough. Each one of your emails has had a accusatory and/or spiteful tone to it although I have been kind and professional with any email or telephone conversation we have had. My patience is running thin. I have went above and beyond what a normal seller would do to make this right for you with absolutely nothing on your end short of your word. At this point, just as we have discussed several times now, send the snake back and you will be refunded. We really don't have anything else to discuss.

Jon then attempted to call me, which I did not answer. He then emailed:

Flag this messageRe: LabelTuesday, July 27, 2010 7:44 PMFrom: This sender is DomainKeys verified"Robert garcia" <[email protected]>Add sender to ContactsTo: "Clinton Bartley" <[email protected]>Cc: "Jon Garcia" <[email protected]>I am sorry it's just a lot of money to me and the black spec i saw in his left nostral got me freaked out thinking if the thing has mites that would cause the left eye to be messed up,now i am not saying it does or doesn't and i appologize i don't wan't any problems you have done everything honorable you said you would refund my money and again just please try to see it from my side i opened the thing up and saw the eye thing and some black specs but whatever i don't want to cause any problems,i appologize again if i had a negative tone this has just been stressful for me.I will get your animal back to you and end of story,do you mind sending my money back to me pay pal,that way i get it as soon as you get the animal back,i can send a money request.You seem like a nice person and you are doing everything right and again i am sorry people are more important than money i should of been calmer and less stressed over this situation so please except my appology and thank you for being understanding

I did not respond to this email. Jon then emailed:

Flag this messageRe: LabelTuesday, July 27, 2010 8:51 PMFrom: This sender is DomainKeys verified"Robert garcia" <[email protected]>Add sender to ContactsTo: "Clinton Bartley" <[email protected]>Cc: "Jon Garcia" <[email protected]>I just go the shipping label and it says bill sender?Wouldn't i be the sender why would i be billed?

I did not respond as I knew who's account was being charged, and at this point had had enough of the conversation.

Jon then emailed:
Flag this messageplease readTuesday, July 27, 2010 11:02 PMFrom: This sender is DomainKeys verified"Robert garcia" <[email protected]>Add sender to ContactsTo: [email protected]c: "Jon Garcia" <[email protected]>Hey Clint,the reason i wish you to send refund pay pal is becuase like two months ago when i mailed of my dog licensing and check it got lost in the mail and the post office returned my letter to me two months later w/ an appology saying sorry we don't know what happened to the check but here is what is left of your letter,so i am just trying to avoid that,thanks Jon

My reply:
--- On Tue, 7/27/10, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:


From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: please read
To: "Robert garcia" <[email protected]>
Date: Tuesday, July 27, 2010, 8:22 PM


Jon,
I don't mind sending the refund via paypal once the snake is in my possession and I am able to verify its defect.

Thanks,
Clint
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

Jon's reply:

Re: please readTuesday, July 27, 2010 11:37 PMFrom: This sender is DomainKeys verified"Robert garcia" <[email protected]>Add sender to ContactsTo: [email protected]c: "Jon Garcia" <[email protected]>ok thank you i appreciate that,i say this peaceful becuase i am a peaceful man if it doesn't appear defect to you it sure does to me,i have never had any of my snakes eyes look like that and the one time in 20 years i had a mite infestation w/ a burm years ago it had black specs in the nostrals and around the cage,so i don't want to argue i just want to send animal back and get a refund.If we don't see eye to eye,defect or no defect then difference of opinion but i have been in this hobby long enough to not accept that animal,so if it is fine to you great,i just want my money back,thank you

I did not reply.

Jon then emailed:
Flag this messageRe: Thank youWednesday, July 28, 2010 12:14 AMFrom: This sender is DomainKeys verified"Robert garcia" <[email protected]>Add sender to ContactsTo: [email protected]c: "Jon Garcia" <[email protected]>i could not accept animal w/ eye looking like that,i am sorry,thank you for your professionalism,talk to you soon.Jon

I did not reply.

Jon then emailed:

Flag this messageRe: hey ClintWednesday, July 28, 2010 12:48 PMFrom: This sender is DomainKeys verified"Robert garcia" <[email protected]>Add sender to ContactsTo: [email protected]c: "Jon Garcia" <[email protected]>I just wanted to say yesterday when i said this has been a nightmare i didn't mean anything negative against you or your company,right from the beginning you did say send him back and you will issue a refund,all i meant was from my end as the customer it was very stressful and upsetting to open and see the animal w/ an eye issue like that after i have waited for so long to get an albino ya know,i expected to open it and have a flawless animal and not have to go through the stress of return and refund and all that.I wasn't saying you were doing anything wrong i was purely venting frustration from my end as the customer that didn't receive a 100% healthy flawless animal,sincerely Jon

I did not reply.

Jon then emailed:

Flag this messagethought you should knowWednesday, July 28, 2010 3:34 PMFrom: This sender is DomainKeys verified"Robert garcia" <[email protected]>Add sender to ContactsTo: [email protected]c: "Jon Garcia" <[email protected]>It cost me $2.00 last night to have the mail stop print me that label and $5.00 today to buy packaging tape to reseal the box to send him back so that is $7.00 and as a customer i am sure you understand when you purchase something you want it to be perfect.I am unemployed at the moment and believe it or not $7.00 is a lot of money to me right now.When you receive him please take a close look at both sides of the eyes,you have to look very close to see what i am speaking of,the left eye has the issue of the white skin from the back of the eye protruding and on the right side i can't tell but in front of the right eye it looks like maybe a scale is missing?I don't know i can't tell,it is a tiny black spot about an 1/8 of an inch below the right eye.

That email started to make things a little clearer in my mind, but I will let the board decide.

I later sent this message:

--- On Wed, 7/28/10, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:


From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: thought you should know
To: "Robert garcia" <[email protected]>
Date: Wednesday, July 28, 2010, 3:21 PM


When shipping, do not use the ice pack. Temps have cooled.

Clint
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

Jon replied:

Flag this messageRe OKWednesday, July 28, 2010 6:27 PMFrom: This sender is DomainKeys verified"Robert garcia" <[email protected]>Add sender to ContactsTo: [email protected]c: "Jon Garcia" <[email protected]>You got it,i will be getting him off here soon,no hard feelings i hope but i could not keep animal w/ that eye issue and if you were purchasing him and noticed the eye issue i don't think you would except him either,thanks again for understanding and i will get him back to you,take care.Sincerly Jon

Jon later sent:

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ReplyReply AllMove...AccountsAdds placedFed ExFollow upFriendsPayPal ReceiptsPossible ContactsReptiles PurchasesReptiles SoldSales Pending Flag this messagedefect albinoWednesday, July 28, 2010 11:19 PMFrom: This sender is DomainKeys verified"Robert garcia" <[email protected]>Add sender to ContactsTo: [email protected]c: "Jon Garcia" <[email protected]>He is on his way back i trust i should have my money via pay pal by 11:00 am if he arrives by 10:30 and if he doesn't appear defect to you?Whatever, do what you want w/ him,i just know i don't want that,that was not a flawless quality animal,please send the money without any issues and we are good,i will not mention this experience to anyone,except if anything you where professional and kept your word to refund my cash, cool.Thank you Jon

Upon receipt of the animal, I took pictures of the unpacking and of the snake that will be posted in my next post. I then sent this email:

Flag this messageRe: defect albinoThursday, July 29, 2010 11:21 AMFrom: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>Add sender to ContactsTo: "Robert garcia" <[email protected]>Jon,
This animal is fine. This is absolutely ridiculous. To use the word "defect" is absurd. Your emails have raised several red flags and looking at the animal confirms it. Your original emails and your phone calls stated that the eye was so incredibly noticeable that the eye was falling out of the snakes head. Since then, you have back peddled to "you have to look very close to see..." You tell me that $7 to ship the animal back was a lot of money to you being that you are unemployed, yet you were willing to purchase a $350 animal? It appears that you either lost your job after sending the money, or realized you needed the money after sending it. I posted a question on the boi about this entire situation and the consensus was the same, I shouldn't have paid for return shipping without proof of a problem. But I chose to give you the benefit of the doubt, and did it anyway. So here is where we are. As soon as I have access to a computer today, you will receive a $300 refund. Your original $350 minus the return shipping as I should not be out $100 on an animal that is fine. All of our emails as well as pictures of the animal will be posted on the BOI. If the overall opinion is that the return shipping should be paid by me, I will refund you the final $50. If our peers agree with me, I won't. Any correspondence between the two of us going forward needs to be in email form as I feel it should be documented.

Clint
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

The following emails were then sent my Jon, none of which I have replied to:

Flag this messageRe: defect albinoThursday, July 29, 2010 12:45 PMFrom: This sender is DomainKeys verified"Robert garcia" <[email protected]>Add sender to ContactsTo: [email protected]c: "Jon Garcia" <[email protected]>That animal you sold is junk!Pass that junk on to someone else,the truth and fact of the matter is i wasn't stupid enough to purchase the a defect animal w/ obvious eye issues if you want to risk your reputation as a breeder that is your choice i did everything right and notified you one minute after animal arrived telling you of the issue as far as back peddle i lightened my tone becuase no need for me to get ugly i expect a full refund as you promised.I spoke to a friend of mine who has been in the business since the beginning and he said he would not want a animal either with obvious eye issues.The eye skin is coming out the socket from behind the eye,not to mention the missing scale or gapa on the right side of the face.I think it has mites aswell,didn't want to hold on to it long enough to find out,if that animal is ok for bartley reptiles to sell then good luck i want my full refund now!

Flag this messageRe: defect albinoThursday, July 29, 2010 12:51 PMFrom: This sender is DomainKeys verified"Robert garcia" <[email protected]>Add sender to ContactsTo: [email protected]c: "Jon Garcia" <[email protected]>If you think that animal is fine,i feel sorry for you and every customer that is unfortunate enough to happen upon bartley reptiles if that is the type of animal you are trying to pass on to your customers.That animal is not quality i counted three very obviuos issues.If you don't see them whoa yeah his pattern sure looked nice but very obvious health issues eye,scale,and most probably mites.That left eye has the skin from behind the eye ball coming out of the socket and over 1/4 of the eye lens!

Flag this messageRe: defect albinoThursday, July 29, 2010 12:57 PMFrom: This sender is DomainKeys verified"Robert garcia" <[email protected]>Add sender to ContactsTo: [email protected]c: "Jon Garcia" <[email protected]>You do have ot look close to see duh don't you inspect your animals very closly before you send them to your customers!Obviously not! You are going back on your word i notified you immediately and you said you would issue a full refund,you are screwing yourself by changing your word but i guess ishould not expect you to have character after the junk animal you tried to sell me.Post that! Eye issues,gap in scales,probably mites

Flag this messageRe: defect albinoThursday, July 29, 2010 1:12 PMFrom: This sender is DomainKeys verified"Robert garcia" <[email protected]>Add sender to ContactsTo: [email protected]c: "Jon Garcia" <[email protected]>I want my full refund.If i don't get it i will do some posting myself that animal has issues you cannot tell by pics,but you can in person,if i don't receive my full refund i will have to take action and make some calls do some posting myself telling the public that bartley reptiles is passing junk.The only true thing you have said is the eyeball is not falling out of his head,your right but it has health issues if you don't realize wow,I don't know anyone who knows anything that would purchase an animal w/ the eye skin that is suppoesed to be inside the head outside covering where the lens is covering 1/4 of the lens,and their were black specs all over it in his nose that means mites my friend!Like i said i would not except junk,that is why i called you within a minute of animals arrival.So if i don't get back my full refund like you said i would you are proving that you are not a man of character and a man who is selling not quality to his customers and if i have to i will post it and notify the better business bureau.

Flag this messagethis is my final emailThursday, July 29, 2010 1:26 PMFrom: This sender is DomainKeys verified"Robert garcia" <[email protected]>Add sender to ContactsTo: [email protected]c: "Jon Garcia" <[email protected]>I want my $50 you should not of sent animal to customer like that so send me my $50 and i will not notify the public that bartley reptiles is passing junk and i will not notify the bbb or call any of my breeder friends in the community,right now this is between me and you if you want to make it publicly known how you don't keep your word and sell less than healthy quality animals then don't send the 50,good bye
P.s you never answered the question about the black specs in the nostral,everyone knows black specs means mite poop,

Flag this message$50Thursday, July 29, 2010 1:50 PMFrom: This sender is DomainKeys verified"Robert garcia" <[email protected]>Add sender to ContactsTo: [email protected]c: "Jon Garcia" <[email protected]>If i don't have my $50 by noon,i will start posting the truth that you said i would get my full refund and bartley reptiles is trying to sell snakes w/ mites and unhealthy animals w/ issues and whatever else i can think of to get the truth out to potential customers.

As I stated in the email, I am looking to the board to decide the outcome in this transaction. If the final $50 is owed (in the opinion of those here), I will pay it. If not, I won't. The $300 has already been paypaled to Jon. Thank you for your help.

Clint Bartley

buyer beware that is what i have learned from this experience

 

[omni]

I don't know why I haven't any of Clint's animals in my collection. I remember a while ago, maybe 2 yrs, I had looked at some he had offered for sale, was very impressed by them, and the quality of pics. After getting a reply email from him, I thought this guy was solid and one to be trusted. I would have no problem buying from Bartley Reptiles.

 

[spyder79]

buyer beware that is what i have learned from this experience

You are like a drowning man in the middle of the ocean, grasping at anything you think could possibly keep you afloat. Everyone has seen through your BS so you might as well give up. Just sink below the waves and let the darkness consume you.

 

[Utta]

And everyone else has learned "Seller beware" and "clint is a great guy who cares about his reputation"

 

[mattie92479]

You were way to nice to this cat...

Matthew Miller
Matthew Miller Reptiles

 

[jtupper]

if nothing wrong w/ that snake then you purchase it

If its still available at the end of September, or if Clint has another one available then for around the same price...I'll be all over it, and be happy to deal with someone who obviously will do EVERYTHING to ensure my satisfaction.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

buyer beware that is what i have learned from this experience

Repeating your drivel over and over doesn't make it any less sad and ridiculous.

You have made the "do not sell to" list of everyone who has read this thread. Clint has a dozen or so new potential customers.

You are the new poster child for "BUYER'S REMORSE"

Quit while you are behind......way behind

 

[LauraB]

Clint, you have proven yourself to be a professional. Well-spoken, patient (even when it was tested, challenged and antagonized), intelligent and cautious (in your concern for getting your gorgeous, HEALTHY snake returned safely). I would have no problem in purchasing from you in the future.

Though it certainly seems a case of buyer's remorse and a monumental hassle for you, Clint, I am grateful your snake is back in your caring hands and not at the mercy of someone who may nor may not be able to care for him properly due to financial restraints.

Originally Posted by Jon Garcia
buyer beware that is what i have learned from this experience

As already stated numerous times, what experienced and knowlegeable keepers/vendors have learned is seller beware. If $7.00 is a burden even worth mentioning, then how can you possibly care for an animal properly?

 

[RHaywald]

(facepalm) I can't believe I actually read ALL of this after seeing those pics. I am simply happy that the snake made it back into a capable hands and someone that is not only willing but financially able to care for the animal.

 

[RHaywald]

That animal had mites!!!!!and who know's what other health issues if you people think that is ok then buy an animal from bartley reptiles

Speaking of which.... Clint, you got any leos for sale?

 

[David Reid]

I do not see any mites or any mite feces on the snake, and when an Albino has mites, it is pretty obvious.

Whoever said mites are ok, just deal with it, is an #$$%. Mites transmit disease, suck blood from your animals, can cause a snake to become anemic, and are just a slap in the face to the person you send a mite invested snake to.

 

[Bartley Reptiles]

Speaking of which.... Clint, you got any leos for sale?

That I do! Take a look at my website, www.bartleyreptiles.com

Thanks,
Clint Bartley