Bad Guy JonValentine

[darkmachine]

I drove to Gainsville FL last night from Orlando to buy the adult Kahl Albino male that Jon has listed for sale. About 5 minutes after starting my visual check on the snake I pulled a big fat mite off from underneath one of the scales on the animal. I got the usual "we have no idea where that came from" spiel but I got the impression that he was not surprised and had incorrectly assumed that I as a buyer would hopefully not notice. So I think it is my responsibility to post this so no one else has a snake shipped to them with mites. I think Jon needs to correct his mite problem before he re-posts any classifieds. -James R. Killough

 

[Durante]

I drove to Gainsville FL last night from Orlando to buy the adult Kahl Albino male that Jon has listed for sale. About 5 minutes after starting my visual check on the snake I pulled a big fat mite off from underneath one of the scales on the animal. I got the usual "we have no idea where that came from" spiel but I got the impression that he was not surprised and had incorrectly assumed that I as a buyer would hopefully not notice. So I think it is my responsibility to post this so no one else has a snake shipped to them with mites. I think Jon needs to correct his mite problem before he re-posts any classifieds. -James R. Killough

This might have served better as an info thread. Has Jon been advised of this thread? Did Jon advise of any actions he plans on taking regarding correcting this issue or thew sale of the animals?

 

[darkmachine]

If this posting is in an inappropriate place then by all means a moderator should move it or delete it. I suppose I should clarify that I did not buy the animal after driving almost 2 hours to get there. And the 10+ dollars in tolls and 30-40 dollars in gas. No, Jon did not offer to reimburse me for any of that.

 

[Mistyck]

If this posting is in an inappropriate place then by all means a moderator should move it or delete it. I suppose I should clarify that I did not buy the animal after driving almost 2 hours to get there. And the 10+ dollars in tolls and 30-40 dollars in gas. No, Jon did not offer to reimburse me for any of that.

First off, that doesn't happen. Guess you should have read the guidelines for starting a BOI thread, huh?

You had the right to not buy the animals, but that doesn't mean he had to pay for you to come look at them and not buy them. You could have just as easily asked for more current photos, and clearer photos before driving all the way out there to see the snake in person.

While I'm sorry that you didn't get what you thought you were going to...This probably would have served better as an info thread (as stated before.)

 

[darkmachine]

You're absolutely right of course. I sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this thread has caused and request that a moderator take appropriate action.

 

[Durante]

If this posting is in an inappropriate place then by all means a moderator should move it or delete it. I suppose I should clarify that I did not buy the animal after driving almost 2 hours to get there. And the 10+ dollars in tolls and 30-40 dollars in gas. No, Jon did not offer to reimburse me for any of that.

I don't think the posting is in an inappropriate place just a inappropriate bad guy label & as stated cant be removed. If you completed a business transaction that turned bad or had proof that someone was attempting to complete a deal with a unhealthily animal then it could be a different story. From what I read that you posted it seems possible the seller could have actually been unaware of a mite issue. I know it sucks when things don't work out the way you wish but it doesn't justify a bad guy in my opinion. Did you ask Jon to reimburse you for your travels, advise him of this thread, or place yourself in his situation & see how you would feel with the rolls reversed? I personally would take the small loss & feel lucky I went to see the animal & saving myself what could have ended up being an expensive issue in the long run.

I see Jon has not been online today to view this thread but seen he was on yesterday & suggest to him to remove any ads related to the sale of animals in question until all problems are taken care of. I'm sure most would agree now after being advised of an issue, proceeding to sell this animal with out correcting the problem would actually justify this thread.

 

[Michael Brown]

They wont remove it now. Its here to stay. Learn to read

 

[Lucille]

You could have just as easily asked for more current photos, and clearer photos before driving all the way out there to see the snake in person.

I do think that many people have the expectation that if they purchase a snake, whether it is for pickup or it is shipped, that it will not have mites.

So I think it is my responsibility to post this so no one else has a snake shipped to them with mites. I think Jon needs to correct his mite problem before he re-posts any classifieds. -James R. Killough

I certainly agree that if indeed his snakes have a mite problem that the situation needs to be addressed prior to the sale of more snakes.

I hope that the seller comes here and posts, I would like to hear what he has to say.

 

[SpitZu]

From what I read that you posted it seems possible the seller could have actually been unaware of a mite issue.

To be fair, I find it very hard to believe that someone who had just laid eyes on the animal for the first time was the one to discover mites in this person's collection. I would be livid if someone tried to knowingly sell a mite-infected animal to me, and I would absolutely consider that person a "bad guy" and want to warn others.

 

[Durante]

To be fair, I find it very hard to believe that someone who had just laid eyes on the animal for the first time was the one to discover mites in this person's collection. I would be livid if someone tried to knowingly sell a mite-infected animal to me, and I would absolutely consider that person a "bad guy" and want to warn others.

I don't think it's that unimaginable. There are plenty or people who's experience with parasites vary. To really be fair, I don't know either the poster or sellers experience & have not seen the advised mite to decide for myself. I would like to assume if someone knowingly had an issue with mites that they wouldn't be willing inviting people over to investigate an animal. At the same times there are more & more bad guys it seems joining this hobby so who knows until we get more factual information & the accused comes to provide there side of the story.

 

[darkmachine]

I had a witness with me. I clearly showed the mite to him but I didn't pull out my camera and start taking pictures because well here in Florida some counties have different laws about that and I was in a different county. I also did not want to initiate a confrontation taking pictures of a snake mite that came off of a snake that I was clearly not going to buy at that point. This did happen guys. I admit I was pissed as hell but I wasn't allowed to see the enclosure it had been kept in and they already had the snake out when I got there. I could speculate as to why but I won't.

 

[darkmachine]

To be fair, I find it very hard to believe that someone who had just laid eyes on the animal for the first time was the one to discover mites in this person's collection. I would be livid if someone tried to knowingly sell a mite-infected animal to me, and I would absolutely consider that person a "bad guy" and want to warn others.

Thank you. This is it right here.

 

[Durante]

I had a witness with me. I clearly showed the mite to him but I didn't pull out my camera and start taking pictures because well here in Florida some counties have different laws about that and I was in a different county. I also did not want to initiate a confrontation taking pictures of a snake mite that came off of a snake that I was clearly not going to buy at that point. This did happen guys. I admit I was pissed as hell but I wasn't allowed to see the enclosure it had been kept in and they already had the snake out when I got there. I could speculate as to why but I won't.

You cant advise you had a witness without addressing the person name, there are no 3rd party comments as the rules state. Just like the BOI the rule about BOI not being able to be removed.

About 5 minutes after starting my visual check on the snake I pulled a big fat mite off from underneath one of the scales on the animal.

I personally never experienced any issues with mite (hope to keep it that way) but from what I read & seen on previous threads usually where there is one mite there is a bunch of them & they really aren't big. I know there other critter species that look very similar to mites. Please don't take this as me trying to state anything about your knowledge or experience. I'm sure your very informed but try to understand it from the point of view of us outsiders. I don't blame you 1 bit for not taking photo's but at the same time can not assume or take the word of either side without reasonable doubt unless the other party agrees or there is some kind of proof.

I do think it's very odd for someone not to want to show a snakes enclosure unless they have something to hide & also would be pissed if I wasted time & money for no reason as you claim but haven't even heard the other side of the story & don't know if Jon has yet to be even notified of this thread yet.

I'm sure at this point you probably think I chose a side but I assure you that's not the case. I do think this may have been better as a info thread over a bad guy thread but that doesn't mean I think your wrong or a bad guy & it wouldn't seem like such if you just would read the rules.

 

[darkmachine]

I'm not going to argue this any further. My #1 concern is the welfare of those animals. I know what I saw. I've seen snakes at Petco before. I use permethrin spray and I have 6 beautiful and healthy mite free boas and a carpet that is the same. I believe that this seller is willingly selling these animals in full knowledge of the mite problem. I'm a noob so obviously I would be a perfect target for this being that this was the first "expensive" snake I would have bought. I know most of you won't think 320 qualifies as expensive but it is when you're starting out.

 

[darkmachine]

Oh and Durante, when a snake mite, or Ophionyssus natricis gets fully engorged from the snakes blood, they swell up. That's what I meant by fat. Sorry I should have clarified.

 

[Durante]

I'm not going to argue this any further. My #1 concern is the welfare of those animals. I know what I saw. I've seen snakes at Petco before. I use permethrin spray and I have 6 beautiful and healthy mite free boas and a carpet that is the same. I believe that this seller is willingly selling these animals in full knowledge of the mite problem. I'm a noob so obviously I would be a perfect target for this being that this was the first "expensive" snake I would have bought. I know most of you won't think 320 qualifies as expensive but it is when you're starting out.

James stop being so defensive when no one is trying to put you on trail or accusing you of anything that needs defending. If you have 7 snakes, then you have double the amount I do & I be willing to bet the total spent on them is higher then what I spent on mine. Being a noob, or having high dollar snakes has nothing to do with the situation. It doesn't matter if a person has a 100, thousand dollar snakes or only 1 rescue.

Remain calm & understand you created a BOI post as a warning to others in regards to your bad experience. Many critter loving people including myself respect that you obviously care & want the best for these animals but remember the BOI is a powerful tool considering the amount of users on this site. It's very useful in showing the good & bad people in the hobby & as not to be used in the wrong way needs to follow a set of rules.

Again, I assure you I'm not calling you out on anything other then not reading the rules of the BOI which happens a lot. You might not believe or see it now but I only am trying to get help you to provide the necessary factual info to make your point.

 

[Durante]

Oh and Durante, when a snake mite, or Ophionyssus natricis gets fully engorged from the snakes blood, they swell up. That's what I meant by fat. Sorry I should have clarified.

It's also very possible since the snake may have been rinsed or cleaned of a majority of mites not engorged prior to you getting there since you mentioned it was already out of it's enclosure prior to you getting there which would indicate he was aware of an issue. I'm very curious to hear what Jon has to say about this situation,any history of the snake, & his explanation on why it was not possible to see the snakes enclosure. Are one these the snake in question posted in the classifieds section & listed as currently available on this site?

http://www.faunaclassified.com/forums/showthread.php?t=413538

 

[darkmachine]

I understand Durante and I do intend to review the rules ASAP. I appreciate your patience with me and I apologize for being a bit snappy. I am still a bit emotionally stressed about it all. I am not taking any pleasure in this. In fact I would just like to forget about the whole thing. But this kind of thing is beyond wrong and is infuriating to know those animals are suffering and the keepers effort is being used to sell it and not help it. I bet the ad for the snake is still up too.

 

[darkmachine]

Yes it's the one listed as the 6 foot male albino

 

[hhmoore]

You cant advise you had a witness without addressing the person name, there are no 3rd party comments as the rules state.

Well intended, but inaccurate. It's fine to say he had a witness without naming him...as long as he isn't attributing statements to, or information provided by, an unnamed source.

I do think it's very odd for someone not to want to show a snakes enclosure unless they have something to hide & also would be pissed if I wasted time & money for no reason as you claim

Nothing odd about it at all, really. Not every keeper welcomes strangers into his/her home, after all...and that isn't necessarily related to the value of one's collection, or having something in it to hide. On the very rare instances I have allowed a buyer to come to my home, I have always had the animals in question contained and kept in a common room...and I decline requests to see the rest of my collection, or my setup. If somebody takes issue with that, I'll apologize as I see them to the door. (Rather than remorse over the loss of a sale, I would wonder why the heck I let him come to my house in the first place...and probably vow not to make that mistake again.)

It can be frustrating to waste time and money; but that's part of driving any distance to buy in person. Get over that part. Other than that, I'm going to hold my comments until the seller has had an opportunity to address this thread.