Bad Guy jose torres (drtorres) bad guy

[tracy reptile co.]

ok about 1 week ago i contacted jose torres after seeing that he had a female nephrurus wheeleri for sale 250.00 plus shipping, this was on wednesday, i asked him if he would hold her for me until tuesday when my check cleared, he didnt answer that question but asked where i was located, im in las vegas nv, hes in davis ca. on saturday he told me that with shipping and paypal fees its 330, the animal was 250 so 80 dollars in shipping and paypal fees. a bit much for going from cali to vegas. i sent him 3 emails asking for his zipcode to see the shipping charges for myself, maybe i could get them cheaper. after ignoring my email for an additional day (now im starting to wonder how legit he is, but i figure its the weekend maybe hes busy) he finally sends his zipcode and when i lookup shipping its 50.81 and even the paypal fee would only be 9 dollars so i cant figure out where the extra 20 is, i told him i could send the money thru paypal and he wouldnt get charged the fee, so i offered 301 shipped (the correct shipping costs not 330)
he said "No, I prefer keep her, but thank you anyway." so at this point after all this back and forth i get a bit upset, because hes trying to charge me an extra 20-30 dollars and i wont pay it because he cant tell me why its more money then what i can ship it for. it makes me feel like hes trying to scam me because now after all of that he dosent want to sell her makes no sense since i wasnt trying to lowball him, i offered to pay the real asking price plus the actual shipping charges????????????? his ad was from may 4th and he hasnt sold any of his animals apparently so when i say i want it he turns around and says no??????????? i dont know what his deal was if he was trying to scam me or what but i wont deal with him again. i can include the email back and forth if needed (i need someone to tell me how to do it please) either way he was acting way to suspicious for me to want to deal with him and so i feel i must warn others. perhaps im overreacting from this mystery 20-30 dollar charge but since he wouldnt tell me what the extra cash was for (example, insurance, need to buy the box etc) it just feels like a scam and since i didnt fall for it like a newbie he didnt like it and backed out saying he'll keep her (but the ad is still up??) so be careful

stephanie nowland and jim tracy of tracyreptileco

 

[snakehobbyist]

Go ahead and copy and paste the e-mails and post them here. Or, you can screen shot the e-mails and upload them here. Either would work fine.

Now, since I don't know Jose or a lot about the situation, I'm going to play devil's advocate for a moment. He could be charging you for the shipping box. Most of those cost $21 to ship a shipping kit (I recently had one shipped to me and that's why I know this number). Also, the shipping "estimate" is all based on box size as well as the weight of the box and the reptile. It could be that you underestimated the box size and weight which could make a significant difference to the shipping cost.

However, before I continue to defend Jose, I'd love to see those e-mails.

 

[snakehobbyist]

Also, I'd like to add that these posts are permenant and you could have ruined his reputation but quickly throwing up a bad-guy thread without knowing why he was charging you those extra $30. There could have been a very good and very legit reason. I don't see a bad deal here (unless of course the e-mails show otherwise).

It sounds like you had a bad feeling about this guy and backed out of a sale. That's all fine and dandy, but not "bad guy" material unless he has done something unethical. Posting a "bad guy" thread because of a "feeling" isn't a great idea.

 

[tracy reptile co.]

emails start at the bottem and go up

****this was the end of the deal, i and my husband got very upset and sent 1 last reply but it has nothing else to do with the deal so i wont post it, i just told him how i felt about the deal. also there never was a true clarification for the additional charge. he didnt say " the 20 dollars is for a box charge"******


From: Jose Torres <[email protected]>
To: jim tracy <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 2:51 PM
Subject: Re: nephururus



No, I prefer keep her, but thank you anyway.


From: jim tracy <[email protected]>
Reply-To: jim tracy <[email protected]>
Date: Sunday, May 26, 2013 2:43 PM
To: Jose Torres <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: nephururus


jose i send funds thru paypal with no fee attatched, and i looked a shipyourreptiles.com shipping is 50 and change so ill paypal you 301 (with no fees) is that acceptable, thanks



From: Jose Torres <[email protected]>
To: jim tracy <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: nephururus



95618
8x8x6


At this price, it might not be worth it if you do not want to pay for the box and PayPal fee.
I use Ship Your Reptiles with FedEx.


From: jim tracy <[email protected]>
Reply-To: jim tracy <[email protected]>
Date: Sunday, May 26, 2013 1:30 PM
To: Jose Torres <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: nephururus



Jose, I have been in this business over 45 years and pretty sure I can get a better shipping rate. So if you don't mind email us your zipcode and I will take care of the shipping on our end . We can email you the shipping label and you can copy it and put it on the container to be shipped. All I need is the box size and your zipcode. My wife wants to get your female gecko so if you can do this we can set things up for you to ship on Tuesday. Thank you, Jim Tracy



i dont know if you got my last email, please send me your zipcode and i will see if i can get the shipping cheaper, thanks(sat may 25 8:44pm)

(after no reply sent another email)

jose give me your zipcode and ill see if i cant get shipping cheaper, thanks(sat may 25 4:00pm)


From: Jose Torres <[email protected]>
To: jim tracy <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: nephururus



Total with shipping FedEx overnight by 10:30 AM and PayPal fee will be $330.
Do you still want her?




From: jim tracy <[email protected]>
Reply-To: jim tracy <[email protected]>
Date: Friday, May 24, 2013 8:18 AM
To: Jose Torres <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: nephururus




Las Vegas,Nevada



From: Jose Torres <[email protected]>
To: jim tracy <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 10:32 PM
Subject: Re: nephururus



Where are you located?


From: jim tracy <[email protected]>
Reply-To: jim tracy <[email protected]>
Date: Thursday, May 23, 2013 12:49 PM
To: Jose Torres <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: nephururus



i am very interested in getting your female cinctus from you but i wouldnt be able to pay for her until tuesday(when my check clears) would you be able to hold her for me until tuesday? thanks steff tracy



From: Jose Torres <[email protected]>
To: jim tracy <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 11:00 PM
Subject: Re: nephururus



Yes, and males amyae and milii.


From: jim tracy <[email protected]>
Reply-To: jim tracy <[email protected]>
Date: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 5:59 PM
To: Jose Torres <[email protected]>
Subject: nephururus



do you still have your cinctus female available? thanks

 

[RichsBallPythons]

Single shipping kits are expensive, unless buyer isnt aware of being charged for it then the charge shouldn't happen. You can get bulk boxes to only paying $2-3 per box plus shipping.

 

[treeboa]

From: Jose Torres <[email protected]>
To: jim tracy <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: nephururus



95618
8x8x6


At this price, it might not be worth it if you do not want to pay for the box and PayPal fee.
I use Ship Your Reptiles with FedEx

It looks like he did tell you about a box fee to me.

 

[NocturnalNature]

Doesn't the third email down explain that it may not be worth it for him if he cannot recoup the cost of the box? In hindsight, he should have factored in the cost of the box in the asking price if it was an issue for him, but I truly don't see where this warrants a bad guy thread. If anything, I think it reflects poorly on you, and shows potential buyers or sellers that you are quick to throw negative accusations should things not go your way.

 

[RichsBallPythons]

Shady dealer IMO. Didnt factor in box price, and now wants him to PAY the paypal fees.

Thats not up to him but up to the buyer to pay those or not.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

From: Jose Torres <[email protected]>
To: jim tracy <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: nephururus



95618
8x8x6


At this price, it might not be worth it if you do not want to pay for the box and PayPal fee.
I use Ship Your Reptiles with FedEx

It looks like he did tell you about a box fee to me.

I agree it clearly states what the OP says it doesn't state.

****this was the end of the deal, i and my husband got very upset and sent 1 last reply but it has nothing else to do with the deal so i wont post it, i just told him how i felt about the deal. also there never was a true clarification for the additional charge. he didnt say " the 20 dollars is for a box charge"******

Besides the fact that I disagree with charging paypal fees, etc.

The seller did state plainly

Total with shipping FedEx overnight by 10:30 AM and PayPal fee will be $330.
Do you still want her?

The potential buyer (OP) states no I will pay this, I don't like your number.

The seller then says no thanks.

Don't know this seller or if he is legit but to start a thread after the seller declines the lower price is ridiculous.

 

[tracy reptile co.]

We said we would take care of the Paypal fee, so thats off the table. but it still leaves about 29.00. In 45+ years of being in this business I never heard of any 8x8x6 box costing 29.00 and if thats the case, we should all get out of reptiles and sell boxes. If he would have simply explained his breakdown of charges perhaps things would not have come to this. All I know is when we sell something to someone I cannot Skirt the charges by just saying" box charge", not to mention the first responce for charges due was Shipping and Paypal fees, there was no mention of a box charge. So to be honest, if he said "29.00 box charge" we wouldn't buy it but I wouldn't be wondering where 29.00 is going for either. Why didn't he explain what was costing what,instead of saying I'll just keep her. Hey, maybe I'm wrong but to me its a little weird if, someone just thinks 29.00 for a small box to ship one lizard in is the way everyone does there shipping.I guess I have been doing it wrong all these years because we do not have box charges and if I tried to tell someone I am going to charge 29.00 for a shipping box on top of the already much to high price we all pay for shipping, I wouldn't be around for 45+years in this business. Personally, 29.00 for any size box is insane! All charges should be broken down regardless of how much they are and not taken as an assumtion of thats the way it is when you buy online.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

From: Jose Torres <[email protected]>
To: jim tracy <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 2:51 PM
Subject: Re: nephururus



No, I prefer keep her, but thank you anyway.


From: jim tracy <[email protected]>
Reply-To: jim tracy <[email protected]>
Date: Sunday, May 26, 2013 2:43 PM
To: Jose Torres <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: nephururus


jose i send funds thru paypal with no fee attatched, and i looked a shipyourreptiles.com shipping is 50 and change so ill paypal you 301 (with no fees) is that acceptable, thanks



From: Jose Torres <[email protected]>
To: jim tracy <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: nephururus



95618
8x8x6


At this price, it might not be worth it if you do not want to pay for the box and PayPal fee.
I use Ship Your Reptiles with FedEx.

Like I stated, I don't agree with charging paypal fees or even breaking down the box charge and supplies separately but the seller was polite in his responses and stated why he was charging the amount.

He offered a price and the buyer told him , "No, I can ship cheaper". Will you take this price? The seller stated NO, I would lose out in supply cost and fees. He should have figured that in the asking price. Still, he said no thank you, I don't want to sell at that price.

All of this could have been avoided if he figured his costs into the asking price. Box, packing material, heat or cold packs, gas, time, etc. etc. should be built in. Nonetheless, there are people who don't. I've noticed lately some people have box and supply charges laid out separately on their websites. It is what it is.

If the OP doesn't want the separate charge for such items, that's fair. It was going to cost more than expected. But that doesn't mean that the seller as to sell at that price. He gave a total number of what he was willing to ship out at. It was rejected and that should have been the end of it.

We said we would take care of the Paypal fee, so thats off the table. but it still leaves about 29.00. In 45+ years of being in this business I never heard of any 8x8x6 box costing 29.00 and if thats the case, we should all get out of reptiles and sell boxes. If he would have simply explained his breakdown of charges perhaps things would not have come to this. All I know is when we sell something to someone I cannot Skirt the charges by just saying" box charge", not to mention the first responce for charges due was Shipping and Paypal fees, there was no mention of a box charge. So to be honest, if he said "29.00 box charge" we wouldn't buy it but I wouldn't be wondering where 29.00 is going for either. Why didn't he explain what was costing what,instead of saying I'll just keep her. Hey, maybe I'm wrong but to me its a little weird if, someone just thinks 29.00 for a small box to ship one lizard in is the way everyone does there shipping.I guess I have been doing it wrong all these years because we do not have box charges and if I tried to tell someone I am going to charge 29.00 for a shipping box on top of the already much to high price we all pay for shipping, I wouldn't be around for 45+years in this business. Personally, 29.00 for any size box is insane! All charges should be broken down regardless of how much they are and not taken as an assumtion of thats the way it is when you buy online.

I understand what you wrote but he did give you a total price shipped.

Total with shipping FedEx overnight by 10:30 AM and PayPal fee will be $330.
Do you still want her?

You rejected and countered and he declined. It really is that simply.

Frankly, he really doesn't have to justify it does he? He gave you a total priced shipped and you said, NO, I'll pay this. Then he said NO.

You think his costs should be less than what he is figuring. I do see him being rude or anything like that. It simply said no thanks.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

"I don't see him being rude or anything like that. He simply said, no thanks. "

 

[Dennis Hultman]

To be clear, I wouldn't have taken the deal either but I wouldn't have started a thread. I would have simply declined and told him he should have figured his shipping supplies in the cost. I also don't support those who add a paypal fee against the TOS of PayPal. I understand that wasn't your concern.

 

[LauraB]

1) She's listed for $300.00 on his (Dr. Torres' website), I believe. I also believe Dr. Torres, Ph.D., is not a scammer or a thief.

2) I'm not certain who has actually posted this thread ... Stephanie? Jim? The account is in Jim Tracy's name, but the poster states "i and my husband got very upset".

3) I tried to use the "Buy Now" option at your website for three of your "available" animals. I got the same result all three times. See the image below. With all due respect, this screen-captured result casts some dubious credibility ... especially when none of your "available" animals are available!

4) Your Tracy Reptile Co website (http://tracyreptileco.wix.com/tracyreptileco/home) provides absolutely no contact information; no location, no email address, no phone, no nuthin. I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't do business with an entity with a questionable PayPal account and no contact info, no matter how many years they claim to have been in business. You have history, you have success, you don't hide your identity (IMO).

I'm pretty sure Dr. Torres doesn't need your extra $20, $30, whatever ... perhaps he just didn't care to spend time dickering over that $20-30 or didn't want to deal with waiting for a check to clear or taking a chance on a fraudulent/faulty PayPal address. His animal, his call.

Not Bad Guy worthy, IMO.

 

[NocturnalNature]

We said we would take care of the Paypal fee, so thats off the table. but it still leaves about 29.00. In 45+ years of being in this business I never heard of any 8x8x6 box costing 29.00 and if thats the case, we should all get out of reptiles and sell boxes. If he would have simply explained his breakdown of charges perhaps things would not have come to this. All I know is when we sell something to someone I cannot Skirt the charges by just saying" box charge", not to mention the first responce for charges due was Shipping and Paypal fees, there was no mention of a box charge. So to be honest, if he said "29.00 box charge" we wouldn't buy it but I wouldn't be wondering where 29.00 is going for either. Why didn't he explain what was costing what,instead of saying I'll just keep her. Hey, maybe I'm wrong but to me its a little weird if, someone just thinks 29.00 for a small box to ship one lizard in is the way everyone does there shipping.I guess I have been doing it wrong all these years because we do not have box charges and if I tried to tell someone I am going to charge 29.00 for a shipping box on top of the already much to high price we all pay for shipping, I wouldn't be around for 45+years in this business. Personally, 29.00 for any size box is insane! All charges should be broken down regardless of how much they are and not taken as an assumtion of thats the way it is when you buy online.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I buy my boxes individually from SYR, and the cost of the box and shipping is, ready for this, right at $30.00. Coincidentally, it happens to be for boxes used to ship Nephrurus (and occasionally hatchling tortoises). I do not use the tiny little boxes that some use because I view them as easier to get lost or tossed around.
As far as breaking down prices, some sellers do, and some don't. Just because he didn't follow your business model does not mean he deserves your attempt to give him a black mark on his record.
I think this may stem from a wanted ad that the OP is running in the Gecko section of the classifieds area. Evidently they are looking for prime rib animals on a hamburger budget, which doesn't reflect +45 years of successful business.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=400754

On a side note, I believe Mr. Torres holds a Phd and is associated with a prestigious research institute in California, so I doubt he was trying to scam you.

 

[NocturnalNature]

Darn you Laura! You beat me to Dr. Torres' credentials while I was typing my response LOL.

 

[BinxSundance]

I'm pretty new here, but I've read the other "bad guy" threads on the front page at least and they are talking about people who steal other peoples animals, don't honor agreements on breeding loans, people selling sick animals, people who never ship animals that have been paid for, and there is even a post about someone sending out a mutilated snake and then here is your post about a guy who wanted to charge what OP says is a mystery $29.

I don't think this thread is fair to DrTorres. I hope anyone thinking of doing business with him reads through the thread first and doesn't just assume the titles accurate.

It doesn't make sense to me that an animal or its shipping being "overpriced" means that seller is a "bad guy." Shouldn't that title be reserved for actual problems?

 

[tracy reptile co.]

First off,the dispute is not over the cost of the animal(we had no problem paying the asking price) The dispute is not over ACTUAL shipping charges, the dispute is not even over PAYPAL fees. It is over 29.00 that is left for me to guess what it is for and was not handled in a normal fashion. If in going thru the trouble to ask for Zipcode and box size to look into a less expensive shipping charge,Shouldn't that send a message to the seller that "hey this guy doesn't understand why I am charging him 80.00 for shipping" and after letting the seller know I can get a better shipping charge then the reply shifts to box charge, what I don't get is, why am I paying 29.00 for a small box and why are you not just saying that right from the begining? I'm sorry but I don't know this guy, don't know anything about him but I feel he is not being up front with me on where my money is actually going.It doesn't mean I do not want the lizard, it means simply I don't want to pay more then the asking price and fair charges. If you let me know where the money is going and there is a box charge, I should be told the price. If your being honest with me, you would be upfront on things like individual charges. Normally, a person would NOT say 80.00 shipping then let you hunt for a cheaper shipping charge and then tell you, Thats box charges and shipping. It just starts sounding like a way to get more from the sale. Now if anyone knows this guy and I am way off base, well all I can say is he should be upfront with what he is charging. After all, we are not wealthy, and I do care where my money is going. What a person wants to ask for there animals is there perrogative but if you are going to make your other charges vague and not explain what is for what, that just leads to confusion and if he was being honest and up front ,why should he care if I can save money on things that are not costing him any extra. Sadly, I am not a Doctor. We were not trying to cheat him. I was only trying to get a better shipping amount and NOT attempting to get a cheaper price from what he was asking for his animal.To tell me that this guy doesn't need my 29.00 because he is a doctor, what the heck is that about????? I guess thats a way of discrediting me. If I didn't ship all over the United states all the time, maybe I wouldn't think twice on these extra charges. If I want something I will not just say "well this shipping is way to high so we better just pass" Especially if I know I can get shipping lower and save money,Since when is saving money on shipping something to feel stupid about and a waste of time? All I am saying is if the shoe were on the other foot and you found something you wanted and were willing to pay the price asked, wouldn't you want to have it shipped with as little cost as possible?Especially if you had knowledge of what packages cost to ship. Would you really care if I could save money on something that costs you nothing?I am the one paying for it.

What some people are missing the point on is, I looked into a cheaper shipping cost and found it. When I presented my findings,I was told box charge, being I never heard of a 29.00 box charge, it raised uneasy feelings of "is this guy trying to make extra money on an inflated box charge? As I said I do not know this guy, and scams happen all the time. Even If he was not intentionally trying to hide something but just didn't feel like explaining things,well, that's not my fault, it just made me more leary of the whole deal. So in posting this was simply to say becareful because this guy is being to vague on what he is charging for what. If you don't mind doing business that way then again, thats your call. I just wanted others to know that the deal had to many open ends with only vague explanations and if you feel an 8x8x6 box at 29.00 is a good price, I'll sell you all you want for 25.00 that saves you 4.00 ea. I guess you have your right to defend this guy but it still doesn't make sence when all I wanted to know was, why I have to pay 29.00 ,for what I have to GUESS is a small box and when(not knowing there is such a thing as a 29.00 little box) I offered the asking price and actual shipping charges (which is fair) instead of (like a normal person) saying "i have to get 29.00 for the box" on top of other charges, he says " I'll keep her" now that doesn't sound fishy to anyone??? At this point I am doing way to much explaining for something that I only wanteed others to be aware of because it wasn't right and I still don't see why he didn't just explain his charges no matter what their cost, Doctor or not.

 

[tracy reptile co.]

laura, the website you found on us was one that was in development 3 years ago, i never finished it and didnt even realize it was still up, not that that should matter, we are on kingsnake and fauna this is where we sell our animals not on a website i forgot i had. As I said in my statement earlier, I do not know this man and did not even know he was a Doctor but that still shouldn't matter. There is nothing wrong with trying to look for prices on things that fit into our budget. If you want to attack us because we were not given proper information. Go ahead.

 

[ophidile]

This is redic, maybe an info thread would be warrented to say "hey expect an extra $30 and to be asked to pay paypal fees" (it's against paypal's TOS to ask the buyer to pay fees last I checked)
But they didn't cheat or scam you or do anything bad. They told you their price, and you didn't want it, so okay.

Why did you start a badguy thread? There's nothing to say this seller is a BAD guy.