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Info Josh at Outback reptiles

I attempted to buy some rosy boas from Josh awhile back. I told him I would take the animals if they would eat f/t. He said he didn't feed frozen, only live. I asked him to freeze a couple rodents, thaw them out and try them. He basically said he didn't have time.
How long does it take to thaw a couple mice and make a $300 sale?

Just my experience.
 
I haven't bought from Josh directly, but I have bought from Outback and have not had a problem. Good eaters, no mites, and healthy.
 
Ive heard bad stories about outback, and ive heard wonderful stories about outback, I see his table at the hamburg show every time and everything for the most part looks clean and healthy, I see a few imports he has here and there that look questionable, but it doesnt matter. People who are buying from a large scale breeder/importer should know what they are getting into before they buy.
 
I see them at Hamburg all the time as well. I would have no trouble buying an animal from them at Hamburg (if you feel like waiting half an hour for someone to acknowledge your existence) because you can examine the animal in person and there are no surprises. The problem that I have had with outback (and that I have heard from other people) is more about customer service. I would never buy anything from them over the internet. They have been known to "mistakenly" send out sick or malnourished animals, and while mistakes like this can happen when you deal on a large scale, I can personally attest to the fact that the manner in which they deal with these mistakes is completely unsatisfactory. They will use every measure possible to get out of doing anything for you, will leave you hanging for weeks on end, will make every excuse in the book, and if you really stick with it (and I mean keep on them for several months), you might get a credit toward a future purchase for your trouble.

That being said, I think the OP jumped the gun on this thread. Disagreeing about the sex of an unsexed animal does not justify a BOI thread.
 
I have purchased snakes from Josh in the past and had no issues. His customer service and prices were top notch.
 
I purchased an Anery Het. Snow from Josh back in 2009. Transaction was smooth, animal was healthy and eating, all was well. Josh answered any and all question I had and was polite the entire time.

As for the complaint about him switching a Rosy to F/T. You do realize how large of an operation Outback is, correct? Yes, it is unreasonable to ask them to attempt to switch an animal over to F/T for a customer when there is no guarantee the customer is even going to purchase that animal or that the animal will take the F/T right off the bat.

As a buyer, if an animal is not on F/T yet, it is your responsibility to get the animal switched over when you recieve it. Hence why the seller is telling you what it is eating.
 
I have a large operation myself and I only feed f/t for the safety of my animals. Of course a few animals won't eat f/t so I have to feed those live.
All the animals I sell are eating f/t since a lot of people can't get live or do not like feeding live. Any animals I have that are only eating live are sold at very reduced prices.
I told him I would buy the animals if they ate f/t so he had my word I'd make the purchase. Even if I backed out, what was he out? Two mice that could be easily fed to other animals.

It is NOT the buyers responsibility to get an animal on f/t. The seller should take the extra time to get the animals on f/t. I do the same every year with hundreds of snakes.

Also all that was stated about the rosies was they were feeding on rodents, and he did not mention they were feeding on live until I asked.
 
I have a large operation myself and I only feed f/t for the safety of my animals. Of course a few animals won't eat f/t so I have to feed those live.
All the animals I sell are eating f/t since a lot of people can't get live or do not like feeding live. Any animals I have that are only eating live are sold at very reduced prices.
I told him I would buy the animals if they ate f/t so he had my word I'd make the purchase. Even if I backed out, what was he out? Two mice that could be easily fed to other animals.

It is NOT the buyers responsibility to get an animal on f/t. The seller should take the extra time to get the animals on f/t. I do the same every year with hundreds of snakes.

Also all that was stated about the rosies was they were feeding on rodents, and he did not mention they were feeding on live until I asked.
 
Ryan Beatty said:
I have a large operation myself and I only feed f/t for the safety of my animals. Of course a few animals won't eat f/t so I have to feed those live.
All the animals I sell are eating f/t since a lot of people can't get live or do not like feeding live. Any animals I have that are only eating live are sold at very reduced prices.
I told him I would buy the animals if they ate f/t so he had my word I'd make the purchase. Even if I backed out, what was he out? Two mice that could be easily fed to other animals.

It is NOT the buyers responsibility to get an animal on f/t. The seller should take the extra time to get the animals on f/t. I do the same every year with hundreds of snakes.

Also all that was stated about the rosies was they were feeding on rodents, and he did not mention they were feeding on live until I asked.
Click to expand...

You are assuming that the snakes would immediately accept the F/T mice with no issues. Sometimes it can take weeks or months to switch a snake from live to F/T. I'm surprised you don't know this since you claim to have so many animals on F/T.

In the meantime he is wasting time and money on a customer that may decide to back out of the sale. And he has plenty of other customers that have no issues with live feeding.

Hundreds of snakes is nothing compared to the truly big operations out there. Feeding F/T takes MUCH more time than feeding live.

If an animal is on live, it IS the buyer's responsibility to switch them to F/T if that is what they want to feed. F/T is not the standard feeding method in the industry, it is a PREFERENCE that is optional depending on your situation.

Sometimes you will find a breeder that is willing to get the snake on F/T for you, but most of the time you will be better off finding another breeder that already does F/T.
 
Some snakes, that have been on live, will accept f/t, right away, while others will not.
Personally, I don't see the problem with someone asking a seller to thaw a rodent (or a couple) just to see if the snake/s will accept f/t.
It doesn't take that much time to do a one time f/t feeding in order to check.
 
Forgive the double post, not sure what happened there.

I have hundreds that I have to convert to f/t, the vast majority of my hatchlings take f/t from the start.

Personally if the breeder will not get the animal or f/t or at least try them on f/t, they will not get my business and I know many other people feel the same way.
 
So would you have felt better if he just bs you and said yes or no. He was honest with you did not have time. Who knows could have had someone buying it later as a live eater. As a buyer just move on to the next seller who has them feeding on f/t or buy it convert it yourself.
 
Ryan Beatty said:
It is NOT the buyers responsibility to get an animal on f/t. The seller should take the extra time to get the animals on f/t. I do the same every year with hundreds of snakes.
Click to expand...

I disagree. That's like saying no one should sell animals til they're switched to rats (mice, ASFs, etc). As long as the seller is honest about what the animal eats, the seller should be able to feed whatever prey they feel is appropriate (F/T, live, P/K, rats, mice, whatever). Some people only feed live, and that is up to the individual.

I don't see any harm in a buyer asking if an animal can be switched, but I also think it's a bit harsh to label a seller as a bad guy if they say no. Heck, I'd probably say no, just because I almost never have F/T rodents on hand.
 
On the issue of f/t with the rosy boas..

We have a very large group of animals at our ware house (over 1500+ snakes, not counting baby colubrids)where are retail side is operated from. Our breeding facility has another 2500+ animals there. Due the amount of animals we have feeding live is the only option.
The time it would take to have an employee take f/t out to thaw, then go threw and offer every animal f/t it would cost us double what it cost to feed live. Figure in animals that do not eat/refuses f/t that the rodent then gets thrown away, and you are looking at loosing a very large amount of money every week.

Singling out two snakes to offer feeding f/t is not the issue here, the issue is more of not only pulling the animals off the market for a "potential" sale, but also the animal taking f/t then switching off it from being stressed due to shipping etc. One feeding does not guarantee a f/t feeder so you stand the chance of the buyer getting a animal that wants live, only now you have sold a animal as a f/t feeder and look like the bad guy.

If you buy animals that are f/t feeders we will offer f/t if we have it around, but other than that live is the way to go for us.
 
Ryan Beatty said:
Forgive the double post, not sure what happened there.

I have hundreds that I have to convert to f/t, the vast majority of my hatchlings take f/t from the start.

Personally if the breeder will not get the animal or f/t or at least try them on f/t, they will not get my business and I know many other people feel the same way.
Click to expand...

Doubtful on that request right there. Ive never switched a snake to frozen ever. And for you to request such a thing be done is ludicrous. Most with larger operations breed rodents or buy them on weekly basis. The time i takes to feed 1000 animals live your frozen would STILL be thawing!

You best step back and reassess this not buying from someone if they wont switch to frozen. Some never switch some do why majority dont feed f/t to yearlings that are listed for sale.
 
Ryan Beatty said:
I have hundreds that I have to convert to f/t, the vast majority of my hatchlings take f/t from the start.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but that seems like you are making a big deal out of nothing then. If you are that capable, I think you would have been better off ensuring this yourself.

If I don't want to play by the sellers rules, I move on. I don't see a reason to get upset by someones choice of selling.
 
FireStorm said:
I don't see any harm in a buyer asking if an animal can be switched, but I also think it's a bit harsh to label a seller as a bad guy if they say no. Heck, I'd probably say no, just because I almost never have F/T rodents on hand.
Click to expand...

You are right. This situation does not make Josh a Bad Guy.
However, I haven't seen where Josh was labeled a Bad Guy over this issue.:shrug01:
 
Thank you. I never said he was a bad guy, just that he wouldn't get my business. If I wanted to start a bad guy thread on him I would have. I'm pretty sure I have all the saved e-mails but I takes a lot for me to post a bad guy thread on someone. Last I checked this was an info thread.
 
TheFragginDragon said:
So which name is correct DeeDub, Samuel Snow, or Dustin Waite?
Click to expand...

LOL....yep.......Awkward!!!

Dustin Waite, hence the SN DeeDub/DW. I sent the moderator a request to fix my registered name when I posted. He still hasnt fixed it. It wouldn't let me fix it, that's why I put it in the post.
 
From my two experiences with outback I really do like them. My first was in 2008 I purchased a wild caught gravid female ball python. She arrived home healthy and layed her clutch less than a week later. Unfortunately I was never able to get her to eat for me. But that was my problem. Yesterday I received the male proven super black pastel they have advertised. He is beautiful. He is currently digesting his last meal but other than that a perfect snake. He is clearly the snake pictured in the add. I prefer to feed f/t but agree that they should not be asked to try feeding f/t given the size of the facility. So I will try f/t after I get him established here at home and hope he's an aggressive feeder. If not given the quality of the animal I will be feeding him live I guess. I have only about 5 live feeders from a pretty large collection of ball pythons which is pretty lucky with the species.
 
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