Bad Guy Josh@Outbackreps

[cinderbird]

I will refer him to here and he can clear this up. That there is something there. Weather it's nothing or not theres a defect in the tail. Vet said its not genetic but something that happen in birth. Still is a defect for a perfect snake.

For the 30th time, you were offered a refund for the animal if you returned it.

The seller already acknoweledged that there may have been something wrong with the animal and offered to correct it.

The issue has already been addressed.

You keep going on about how you were "misled" and "lied" to. People make mistakes, and in this case Josh went out of his way to fix that and you just don't want to be satisfied it seems.

In any other transaction, what would happen? Lets say you purchase a computer from (x) company, you get it and find the CD drive doesn't work (something small, but important and easially overlooked). You call the company and ask if you can return it for a new one. If the company has good practices and standards they have you box it up, send it back and either repair it or send you a new one. Why is this transaction so different?

The good guys and bad guys are seperated by WHAT they do WHEN there is a problem. As its not a matter of "if" there is a problem. Good breeders and suppliers go out of their way to correct mistakes. Bad guys keep your money and leave you high and dry. Based on this thread what do you think everyone who has taken the time to read it has labeled Outback as?

Hopefully your buddy can shed some light on this.

 

[Rapture]

Most of this thread is a waste of time.

It's not a kink, it's a skinny imported snake.

Don't buy skinny imported snakes.

Don't sell skinny imported recently post first shed morphs to beginners. Or to anyone, really... this is not very nice to the animal.

If the snake would have been fed and hydrated upon shipment, none of this would have happened.

 

[Mike Schultz]

There is no defect

 

[Lucille]

I wish I could find a picture of a nice fancy medal and bring it here, because this seller deserves one. Not only did he offer a full refund, but has pretty much kept his composure through all the ridiculousness the buyer has kept throwing at him.

Seller, well done.

 

[twistedtails]

Well, I have been hesitant to post my experience, but, I will post it here. I bought a couple animals from Josh back in January(1.0 Black Pastel het Hypo and 0.2 Het Hypos). They came in looking healthy, but, within a few weeks one came down with respritory infection while in quarintine. Mind you, this was a quaratine rack built especially for these animals. This rack never got touched without washing hands before and after and is located on the opposite end of the house in a seperate room.

After contacting Josh, I was told he would give me a discount on future purchases. Who the hell is going to want to buy animals from somebody like this a second time? Not me. So, I added Outback Reptiles to my "DO NOT PURCHASE FROM" list. Which I did not like doing due to the fact that they have some good deals. Unfortunately, when dealing with living animals deals are not always the best thing to go for(you get what you pay for).

I was able to treat that female and admit her to a life long stay in quarintine away from the rest of my collection. Well, after moving the second female out of quarintine into my collection(right next to my het Clowns in the rack, hopefully they don't get sick now), she came down sick. I figured I would call Josh and let him know that the second female came down sick also(he told me in the begging that if one animal was sick they all would be because they were shipped together). I was told that three months down the line is too long to do anything. The funniest thing about this statement is the fact that he did not do anything in the first three weeks of having these animals. I'm not going to rant on forever with this. I am treating the female that is sick now and will be admitting her toi a life long stay in quarintine also. I just figured this experience would give the OP a bit of credit in this situation. Josh and Outback have established a name.....I believe they use it as a crutch in situations like this. Josh when you read this.... I have been willing from the begining to send these animals back and have you replace them and you know it(I told you). Why was I never offered the option?

 

[twistedtails]

I forgot to post my name.

Mike Dickinson

 

[Matt2979]

I don't think that there's much hope for giving THIS OP any credit at this point. But, just like we ask everyone else, do you have any proof of any of these happenings. Not saying you just made it up to "give credit to the OP". Just asking if you have any e-mails or such.

 

[kmrkvicka]

you kind of got it. He had some snakes on here that were orange ghosts he was selling for cheap. I saw the thread and thought "look her brothers" after reading i find they have some birth defects. I start reading up on the whole kink thing because my snake had something in her tail as well. I didn't know from day 1 that it was a kink. i thought it was a weight issue seeing this snake just had its first shed 2 days before received her and probably hadn't even had her first meal yet. she had a wrinkle in her tail section that did go away. Thought she just needed food. Like a skinny person with there ribs showing. They need to eat and put weight on. i then sent a pm to josh asking why he didn't list any problems or have the snake I have now as a kinked animal. Well you can read all the pm's. I didn't want ALL of my money just the portion where it would reflect a defected snake like his latest ad of 75$ a snake and I give it 50$ shipping would of made 125$ where I paid 300$ for a snake that was suppose to 100% perfect. As put "Meant to refresh a blood line". The pm's didn't go no where.

So I don't see why your saying he didn't deserve a bad guy thread/a bad review. He falsified a ad! I see it he lied to me. Why didn't he list her on here like he does the rest of his snakes. Why did he delete his thread on the orange ghost males after I confronted him about my situation? Weather or not he overlooked it or not! This is his job! This is how he makes money. If you mess up at work you think boss man should pay for it? Most of the time they would but theres always the chance he will dock pay fire you etc. Maybe I should of called him from the get go about my concerns but I didn't know. She was real flat when I got her and it seemed like she just needed a couple meals.
.

Sounds to me as if you're feeling her pelvic girdle, which indeed will no longer be felt once she's begun eating, and has more body fat and muscle on her bones. A vet x-ray will most likely confirm this. Even from your blurry photos, I do not think you have a "kinked" animal.

The think about your claim is your self-righteous attitude. As someone who has been both a buyer as well as a seller, I've experienced both sides of the coin. I personally know that when people approach me with concerns in an honest, respectful manner, I'm much more open to working with them, and even taking a loss in order to assure them a positive experience. I've also had the pleasure of working with excellent sellers who have gone above and beyond to make me happy, with replacement snakes, refunds, etc, when I wasn't even asking for them, simply reporting to them issues that I thought they should be aware of. As someone else has stated, I believe it was Matt, professionalism is amazingly resourceful in professional situations!! Imagine that!!

What I learned from this is I will never buy online again. I've lost faith that business can be conducted over the internet properly. Look at the Wise's took a bunch of you for a ride there.

That right there, C@jun, will earn you quite a few folks that will place you on both their "do not buy from" and "do not sell" to list. What the Wises' did was a disgusting ordeal. But, if anything has been shown from it, it is how strong this community is, and how willing we are to band together to stand behind our own. You're making yourself into a bad guy, and you'll find yourself in a lonely position if a bad guy situation were to actually arise. Making good contacts, and gaining the respect of individuals in the community will get you a lot further in this hobby than the approach you're taking

 

[twistedtails]

I don't think that there's much hope for giving THIS OP any credit at this point. But, just like we ask everyone else, do you have any proof of any of these happenings. Not saying you just made it up to "give credit to the OP". Just asking if you have any e-mails or such.

To be completely honest, I just make phone calls. I work a crap load of hours and phone calls are much more convenient for me. You guys can make whatever you want of what I have to say. I have no reason to lie.

 

[-C@jun-]

To be completely honest, I just make phone calls. I work a crap load of hours and phone calls are much more convenient for me. You guys can make whatever you want of what I have to say. I have no reason to lie.

Don't worry about these chillins they have nothing better to do or a life at that.


OK went to my buds house this morning. He says she is to skinny. He thinks the flair over vent is just because she is skinny. He didn't even want to probe her because of it. Just his 2 cent. I will still go to the exotics specialist next week.

 

[JudyC]

Well, I have been hesitant to post my experience, but, I will post it here. I bought a couple animals from Josh back in January(1.0 Black Pastel het Hypo and 0.2 Het Hypos). They came in looking healthy, but, within a few weeks one came down with respritory infection ...

I'm not questioning the validity of your story...at this point, you haven't shown anything that would make me think you're lying. But your story begs some questions...

The snakes came in looking healthy. You couldn't tell one was sick. So how would Josh (or anyone at Outback) supposed to assume one of the animals might be sick? In fact...the animal didn't get sick for "a few weeks"... How is that Outback's responsibility after that much time has passed? Just because you quarantined carefully does not mean an animal can not get sick.

How long is a breeder supposed to guarantee the health of an animal once it has left their control??? But even so, they offered to work with you. Whether or not you choose to do business with them again is entirely up to you, obviously....but you've said nothing here that paints them in a bad light....at least none that I can see.

 

[kmrkvicka]

Don't worry about these chillins they have nothing better to do or a life at that.


OK went to my buds house this morning. He says she is to skinny. He thinks the flair over vent is just because she is skinny. He didn't even want to probe her because of it. Just his 2 cent. I will still go to the exotics specialist next week.

Again, that "flair" is called her pelvic girdle, if you google anatomy and bone structure, you will see that I'm most likely correct

 

[ShadowAceD]

Don't worry about these chillins they have nothing better to do or a life at that.

Actually, I go to school full time and work full time as well as care for an array of animals and spend time with my spouse. I am not the only one with such a life either, so you go ahead and keep on making assumptions about everyone here. The fact you are bitter at the whole community for being called out on your immaturity and foolishness escapes none of us, I assure you.

You are just resorting to insults, sublte or not, because you did not get what you wanted and that just has you taking it out on anyway. Nevermind the fact that you were offered a more than fair offer in return.

At this point, no matter what is wrong with the animal, your attempts to get a partial refund for a kink that never was have been proven to have no real baring or weight. Maybe the animal is a bit skinny, but maybe you injured it, or maybe it is some random birth defect that is hardly visible in photographs that all, for whatever reason (mysteriously), are blurry and poorly focused. The fact of the matter is this, Josh offered a full refund for the return of the animal, you refused it because of some supposed attachment to an animal you barely had. This has been stated over and over again and, at this point, a dead horse has been beaten into a pulp. You have not provided any true veterinarian opinions to validate any claims. Hear say from your friend means nothing. You are a self proclaimed newbie and expect us to respect your position when you unjustly attacked someone and posted a Bad Guy Thread on them like a child have a hissy fit.

Maybe holding your breath and stomping around until you pass out would have been more productive.

Also, go ahead and post an invoice proving you brought it to a vet that supposedly deals with exotics but hasn't dealt with BPs in years and is no longer comfortable with x-raying or probing them. I find that to be a bit ridiculous in all honesty. Go ahead and prove me wrong though.

Please cease your childish mockery of this business. Also, do the reptile community and your animals a favor and do not breed them. I fear for their well-being, especially since you still plan on breeding her as she matures without knowing if something is wrong with her. That was something in my previous post you did fail to acknowledge. So, I suppose I will ask again:

Why keep and intend to breed an animal that may have a defect instead of getting your money back and making another investment in another animal? Why risk killing that female or having the babies born with congenital defects that could keep them from thriving or force you to put them down?

Answer that for me, if you would.

 

[twistedtails]

I'm not questioning the validity of your story...at this point, you haven't shown anything that would make me think you're lying. But your story begs some questions...

The snakes came in looking healthy. You couldn't tell one was sick. So how would Josh (or anyone at Outback) supposed to assume one of the animals might be sick? In fact...the animal didn't get sick for "a few weeks"... How is that Outback's responsibility after that much time has passed? Just because you quarantined carefully does not mean an animal can not get sick.

How long is a breeder supposed to guarantee the health of an animal once it has left their control??? But even so, they offered to work with you. Whether or not you choose to do business with them again is entirely up to you, obviously....but you've said nothing here that paints them in a bad light....at least none that I can see.

I have 40 other snakes in my collection and (knock on wood) they are all healthy. Isn't it ironic that the only sick animals are from Josh and in quarantine? What I'm not going to do is play the run around on here. I have bigger fish to fry. All I was doing was sharing my experience. You can make whatever conclusions you would like from my post. Bad guy...Good guy? That is on you. I'll tell you what...I'll sell you the female that was sick and I treated. If she comes up sick later(it could show up again at some point right?), I will tell you that it has been too long and offer you a discount on future animals. You in? Is it possible that this animal was sick at one point and treated? Is it possible that the ride from east coast to west coast triggered it? Is it possible that having spot on husbandry, that the sickness took a bit longer to show up?

 

[twistedtails]

For the recoed. About the whole selling a once sick animal to you thing, I was joking. These animals have become a life long resposibility of mine due to the fact that he did not want to replace them. I would never sell an animal that was sick at one point. It is in my best interest to avoid a thread about myself like this.

 

[JudyC]

For the recoed. About the whole selling a once sick animal to you thing, I was joking. These animals have become a life long resposibility of mine due to the fact that he did not want to replace them. I would never sell an animal that was sick at one point. It is in my best interest to avoid a thread about myself like this.

No worries...at least, not on my behalf, anyhow. I knew you were just making a point.

 

[Matt2979]

I have 40 other snakes in my collection and (knock on wood) they are all healthy. Isn't it ironic that the only sick animals are from Josh and in quarantine? What I'm not going to do is play the run around on here. I have bigger fish to fry. All I was doing was sharing my experience. You can make whatever conclusions you would like from my post. Bad guy...Good guy? That is on you. I'll tell you what...I'll sell you the female that was sick and I treated. If she comes up sick later(it could show up again at some point right?), I will tell you that it has been too long and offer you a discount on future animals. You in? Is it possible that this animal was sick at one point and treated? Is it possible that the ride from east coast to west coast triggered it? Is it possible that having spot on husbandry, that the sickness took a bit longer to show up?

Mike, When I asked about e-mails, I honestly was neither trying to be negative nor get you on the defensive. I can totally relate to working all kinds of hours, as well as taking care of many animals; however, I've always gotten everything in writing (including TOS and any other guarantees) so that I have a leg to stand on if anything ever happens.

But I have to agree with Judy when she asked, "How long is a breeder supposed to guarantee the health of an animal once it has left their control???"

If you sold me an animal, I received it and told you everything looked great...but a few weeks later I contacted you and said, "My snake just got sick." Would you offer me anything?? I honestly have great husbandry practices, but how would you know what happened to that animal, in my care, for a few weeks??

 

[twistedtails]

Mike, When I asked about e-mails, I honestly was neither trying to be negative nor get you on the defensive. I can totally relate to working all kinds of hours, as well as taking care of many animals; however, I've always gotten everything in writing (including TOS and any other guarantees) so that I have a leg to stand on if anything ever happens.

But I have to agree with Judy when she asked, "How long is a breeder supposed to guarantee the health of an animal once it has left their control???"

If you sold me an animal, I received it and told you everything looked great...but a few weeks later I contacted you and said, "My snake just got sick." Would you offer me anything?? I honestly have great husbandry practices, but how would you know what happened to that animal, in my care, for a few weeks??

To be completely honest, I would tell you to send the animal back. A het Ghost female at 400 grams when you have a substatial collection is not worth the problems.

 

[Matt2979]

To be completely honest, I would tell you to send the animal back. A het Ghost female at 400 grams when you have a substatial collection is not worth the problems.

Fair enough. It was a sincere question, as I'm trying to determine what is fair to use as my own TOS. I can't think of anyone off the top of my head offering more than 7 days and LOTS guaranteeing nothing more than live arrival and sex.

Personally, I thought Outback's offer was more than fair for the OP, but don't really know enough about your situation to form a fair, educated opinion. I'd like to offer a one year guarantee for my animals, but these are not manufactured products; they're living animals that can get sick easily if improper care is given.

I sincerely hope that you're animals continue to get better and stay well.

 

[twistedtails]

Mike, When I asked about e-mails, I honestly was neither trying to be negative nor get you on the defensive. I can totally relate to working all kinds of hours, as well as taking care of many animals; however, I've always gotten everything in writing (including TOS and any other guarantees) so that I have a leg to stand on if anything ever happens.

But I have to agree with Judy when she asked, "How long is a breeder supposed to guarantee the health of an animal once it has left their control???"

If you sold me an animal, I received it and told you everything looked great...but a few weeks later I contacted you and said, "My snake just got sick." Would you offer me anything?? I honestly have great husbandry practices, but how would you know what happened to that animal, in my care, for a few weeks??

Also when I asked Josh for guaranties he told me that "He works for Outback Reptiles and at the end of the day his name stands". Again, using the established name as a "crutch". When problems arose, the verbal guaranty was turned into a "I can give you a discount". When he denied me the writen guaranty I shoud have told him I wasn't interested. My bad. As I stated before, I will treat this last girl that is sick and raise her up and hope she doesn't get sick during the breeding process.