Bad Guy Kammerflage Kreations- Inbreeding/line breeding

[Mafia89]

For you to make this statement is just plain stupid. I have never stated that I believe 100% are for anything.

Either name them or run away crying, either way your name is pretty much mud around here.

Kevinopp would be one and chose to share his opinion and in my book he has more respect from me than kammers. Well when u breed you either in/line breed or you dont. Theres no in between.

 

[PantherPerfections]

So incredibly wrong and rude good luck selling your off spring after attacking someone like this so unjustly. Answer me this. Prove me
To any wc you bought wasent inbred in the wild. Happens a lot due to deforestation colony's of panters get isolated and will breed with relatives. Thank you Ed and liddy for everything!

 

[Mafia89]

The OP's argument has changed multiple times, but the one he seems to be sticking to is that Kammer's only told him about the line-breeding when he asked. He is trying to say they don't tell the buyers unless they ask if they are line-breed. Even though the pictures of the parents are posted. Overall the OP is foolish and just digging a hole for himself.

since when do pics of the sire give you line info? If you are for in/line breeding that is your personal choice. So for a company to distribute chams to people that are under the impression that they came from unrelated pairings is wrong. I was under that same impression until i asked. Understand that im not the only person that's against it for one reason or another. Why not just advertise that they come from a long line of in/linebreeding and only the best traits have been passed on? good selling point right? It is deceiving advertising.

 

[Mafia89]

So incredibly wrong and rude good luck selling your off spring after attacking someone like this so unjustly. Answer me this. Prove me
To any wc you bought wasent inbred in the wild. Happens a lot due to deforestation colony's of panters get isolated and will breed with relatives. Thank you Ed and liddy for everything!

No one can prove what happens in the wild silly. What i can prove is that I AM NOT inbreeding purposely.

 

[PantherPerfections]

Well we know line breeding happens in the wild and they seem to be doing great. so do Ed and liddys chameleons. having bought nearly 30 Chams from them never getting a bad one and having 60 babies from 2 kammerflage bloodline clutches hatch be healthy and look amazing. Another thing they provide all the info u need about parents so you your self can easily find if its line bred. Their job is too sell healthy and beautiful chameleons and that's what they do. If u don't like it don't buy from them but u need too stop a crazy assault on good people.

 

[Wilomn]

since when do pics of the sire give you line info? If you are for in/line breeding that is your personal choice. So for a company to distribute chams to people that are under the impression that they came from unrelated pairings is wrong. I was under that same impression until i asked.

Ahhhh, I see now. You're upset because YOU made an assumption that turned out to be wrong, you got embarrassed, then angry and decided to take it out on Ed.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[WebSlave]

It is not my place to name any other companies or breeders that stand behind me. I leave it up to them to speak out if they choose to. For you to believe that 100% of people are for in/line breeding is asinine.

Warning: Actually, yes it is. Here on the BOI, it IS your place to provide the source of statements you make. Anyone can pull potentially bogus statements out of thin air and claim an anonymous source to defend their position. If you want to provide EVIDENCE provided from other sources, you need to substantiate it. Any further transgressions on your part in like kind will earn you infractions.

 

[djfishygillz]

Ahhhh, I see now. You're upset because YOU made an assumption that turned out to be wrong, you got embarrassed, then angry and decided to take it out on Ed.

Thanks for clearing that up.

+ 1

He is stuck in a corner and thinks if he keeps making lie and presumptions then others will believe him. Hopefully he will accept he made assumptions and is wrong, apologize and move on.

 

[bloodybaroness]

Ed has done nothing wrong.

You asked about the lines and he was 100% upfront and honest. If you don't like linebreeding go somewhere else.

To start a Bad Guy thread over something so trivial is petty and childish. Are you gong to start a Bad Guy thread for every person who has a different opinion than you about how things are done in the hobby?

Who are the cham breeders that "stand behind you," as you say. I want to know how they accomplish things in their lines with no linebreeding, cross backs, or inbreeding at some point along the way. And how they can prove their animals are genetically unrelated?

Line/inbreeding is something that is done in most all species in this hobby. Breeders tend not to do it for generation upon generation, but splashing it here and there, then outcrossing as you can, is not at all harmful to the animals.

If you don't like line/inbreeding this may not be the hobby for you. Even wild populations inbreed in some of the island, or more isolated locations.

 

[Rhacoboy]

Personally, I think that this thread should be removed from the BOI. Although if someone reads through it, they will quickly realize that Kammers has done absolutely nothing wrong, but to even have a thread with this title about me or my business out there when I have done nothing to deserve it would infuriate me.

OP, it is quite obvious that you are fairly new to breeding, or possibly new to the hobby in general. Going around starting threads like this will get you absolutely no where in this industry.

I don't wish to devote hours to this thread, because many good points have already been made by previous enthusiasts, but I would like for you to do some research on inbreeding/line breeding in reptiles.

For example, crested geckos have not been imported in over 15 years, and they were not imported in very large numbers, yet tens of thousands are produced each year in the world in captivity. How do you think the super dalmatian was created? Or the super stripe? Or extreme harlequin? etc, etc, etc.

Inbreeding/line breeding has been done in nearly EVERY specie out there that has a stable captive population. Here are some examples; ball pythons, reticulated pythons, green tree pythons, emerald tree boas, crested geckos, chameleons, leachianus, chahoua, auriculatus, tokay geckos, monitors, etc, etc, etc.

I am currently breeding a pair of sibling double het calico tokay geckos, so you better stear clear of me!

With all that being said, I would like to say that when I start breeding chameleons, I will not hesitate to give Kammers a call.

-Armen

 

[Bobby Douglass]

Personally, I think that this thread should be removed from the BOI. Although if someone reads through it, they will quickly realize that Kammers has done absolutely nothing wrong, but to even have a thread with this title about me or my business out there when I have done nothing to deserve it would infuriate me.

OP, it is quite obvious that you are fairly new to breeding, or possibly new to the hobby in general. Going around starting threads like this will get you absolutely no where in this industry.

I don't wish to devote hours to this thread, because many good points have already been made by previous enthusiasts, but I would like for you to do some research on inbreeding/line breeding in reptiles.

For example, crested geckos have not been imported in over 15 years, and they were not imported in very large numbers, yet tens of thousands are produced each year in the world in captivity. How do you think the super dalmatian was created? Or the super stripe? Or extreme harlequin? etc, etc, etc.

Inbreeding/line breeding has been done in nearly EVERY specie out there that has a stable captive population. Here are some examples; ball pythons, reticulated pythons, green tree pythons, emerald tree boas, crested geckos, chameleons, leachianus, chahoua, auriculatus, tokay geckos, monitors, etc, etc, etc.

I am currently breeding a pair of sibling double het calico tokay geckos, so you better stear clear of me!

With all that being said, I would like to say that when I start breeding chameleons, I will not hesitate to give Kammers a call.

-Armen

If BOI threads were removed just because someone thought they should be then this forum would be like every other one out there and it would lose it's effectiveness. Threads are only removed due to some rule violations.