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Karma and PM abuse

WebSlave

WebSlave

It is what it is, but certainly not what it was.
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Lately I have been getting a few complaints about profanity laced and caustic karma comments as well as PMs that are not an appropriate use of the functions and facilities of this website. This sort of conduct is not conducive to my goal of getting this site back on track with increasing traffic patterns and encouraging the retention of members who visit, to have them visit more frequently and participate freely in all sections. To be perfectly blunt, I don't want some so inclined individuals to try to make this site in general appear to be hostile to members and inhibit their posting and participating here.

Now I don't expect everyone to be all nicey-nice to everyone at all times, but it appears that a few select individuals are pretty high on the list of those members engaging in this above mentioned hostile manner.

This sort of habitual and directed nastiness WILL cease here. Period.

I reviewed the last few months of karma comments placed in the log, making note of the worst offenders, and was appalled at what I saw there. Accordingly, I have already disabled the negative karma function (again!), as I just don't want this sort of thing taking place on this site. Of course that doesn't prevent anyone from posting profanity and derogatory comments when using the positive karma or via PMs and private emails emanating from this site, but please accept this as fair notice that I WILL weed out those folks who seem so inclined. I am getting to the point where I will have a lot more time to oversee the day to day operations here and do some spot checking and auditing of what goes on in the background. I will have no qualms whatsoever about metaphorically taking someone by the scruff of their neck and tossing their butt out of here.

I (with the help of my mods) WILL clean this site up. That will be with or without everyone's help, and most definitely WITHOUT anyone's active resistance to such a change in the atmosphere here. Yes, I know some members are quite colorful and entertaining with their invective, but there comes a time in every thread when enough is quite enough. I realize the BOI is going to always be a bit more rough and tumble then what should really be allowed within the rest of this site, but even the BOI needs to have limits when common and expected courtesy has been breached and trampled.

Necessarily there can be no black and white rule about this, and as such, warnings will be given when this nebulous line has been crossed (in the opinion of any of the mods or myself). Failure to heed the warning(s) will simply result in the offender(s) being removed from participation. Temporarily at first, maybe even for as long as a year if I think it is warranted. Then permanently if the point seems unable to penetrate the skull of the perpetrator(s). At that point, such a member will be considered as being actively and purposely malicious with the goal of the destruction of this site in mind.

A couple of members are on very thin ice right at this moment, and I do hope they heed my request to cease with their completely unsatisfactory behaviors on this site. I really don't like banning people, but I do not lose any sleep over it, and just accept the fact that in some instances, it is the only real solution to the problem presented to me. Those people who do get banned will have had ample warning, yet obviously have no intention of ceasing with their actions. With no other choice available to me, I will take the only choice I have with no regrets.
 
As stupid as it may sound maybe you need to make a list of words that are not acceptable for some folks. :shrug01: Obviously the"F" bombs in any form are a gimme as a no no. :NoNo:

I have posted some words and have wondered afterwards if they would be considered inappropriate or not. Seeing as I haven't received any warning points for language they either didn't warrant points or I dodged the warning point bullet. I have tried to post the same in pm's and when leaving Karma. I try to only use the TV version of "cussing" (i.e. words that you would hear on network television) words when I do use them when posting but if that is inappropriate I would like to know as I would not want to get banned. I enjoy this site and try to help out and if you want the site to be a PG rating and I am using PG-13 language I can easily adjust if that is the case.
 
I have a question. During the spot checking and auditing, will pm's be read by you or the mods? I believe I am nowhere near the problem, but I do have some pm's that are very private. If they might be seen by others without my knowledge or permission, please say so so that i will be able to remove some private things before this happens. Thank you for your time.
 
heathn said:
I have a question. During the spot checking and auditing, will pm's be read by you or the mods? I believe I am nowhere near the problem, but I do have some pm's that are very private. If they might be seen by others without my knowledge or permission, please say so so that i will be able to remove some private things before this happens. Thank you for your time.
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Actually no, there are no plans to actually read anyone's PMs here. What I am referring to is when people will forward abusive PMs or emails to me or the mods. If someone doesn't forward those PMs, then we will just assume that everything is just peachy. "No news is good news", sort of thing.
 
DAND said:
As stupid as it may sound maybe you need to make a list of words that are not acceptable for some folks. :shrug01: Obviously the"F" bombs in any form are a gimme as a no no. :NoNo:

I have posted some words and have wondered afterwards if they would be considered inappropriate or not. Seeing as I haven't received any warning points for language they either didn't warrant points or I dodged the warning point bullet. I have tried to post the same in pm's and when leaving Karma. I try to only use the TV version of "cussing" (i.e. words that you would hear on network television) words when I do use them when posting but if that is inappropriate I would like to know as I would not want to get banned. I enjoy this site and try to help out and if you want the site to be a PG rating and I am using PG-13 language I can easily adjust if that is the case.
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I don't have a problem with moderately off color wording, such as might be expected in a mixed group of people (adults and young adults). But wording such that you aren't likely to hear on the radio or TV, which are public mediums like this one, will be frowned upon. The mods will be happy to assist anyone who makes bad calls on what wording they use to try to express themselves to guide them in moderating the level of language they use.

The idea behind this is to try to make this site more comfortable for the majority of the people here, not get overbearing and straight jacket everyone into being afraid to post. Being afraid to post because the mods might ding you unnecessarily is just as bad as members being afraid to post because someone else may slam you with a profanity laced PM, karma comment, or email. Quite frankly, this site will not cater to children. Most of the topics are pretty much targeted towards adults and/or mature individuals and it is expected that they will not be overly sensitive to mild language being exposed to them. It's really not so much the words themselves being used, it is actually the INTENT of that usage that I am trying to curtail. Most people use profanity to elevate the flame level of a discussion. Those sorts of words generally will invoke a defense response that often gets a reply in like kind or even at an even higher level of flame worthiness. If we can curtail this from the beginning, then I believe the level of conversations here can be less antagonistic and have more pure informational content then we have been seeing. After all, isn't that really what this should be all about?
 
Sounds great to me!

I'm sometimes disappointed at what is allowed to transpire here. It would be great to see some of that cleaned up. I feel more comfortable posting here than on similar sites, and I would like to see that continue.
 
Its good to read this, it certainly will promote a more friendly atmosphere. there has always been a few that were using the karma system to beat people down they did not like.
 
yeah im still erked everytime i read the ones from Chuck that i have.

glad that there will be some moderation of this now
 
I'm glad for this as well, as a lot of people have personally told me they do not visit this site because of the bashing and chidish behavior, I find it sad because to me, I think that everyone should at least try to get along whether you agree or disagree with their way of life, but hey, that will never happen.

I just wish we could all stand up and save this hobby and stop fighting amongst ourselfs and for those of you who don't care for whoever, just stay away from them. Best remedy in the book, if you ask me.

Hope to see more traffic and better and greater ads.
 
Bear in mind that you all have to do your part in this as well. If you don't let is know about abuse, it may take a while before we can get around to checking up on it.

Now this is not a solicitation for everyone to be complaining about every minor slight. Sometimes you do just have to suck it up and move on. There will be times when your posts may invoke some negative reactions. Comes with the turf. It is the crap that is REALLY abusive that we want to stamp out. And we DO need your help with this.
 
WebSlave said:
Being afraid to post because the mods might ding you unnecessarily is just as bad as members being afraid to post because someone else may slam you with a profanity laced PM, karma comment, or email.
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Well to be completely honest with you Rich, you have left me concerned after receiving 2 of the 3 warnings you have given me. They didn't contain any profanity at all and when I received the warnings I was rather shocked to have received them. I am not crying about them by any means nor am I trying to second guess your decision. I understand this is your site and that you are entitled to your opinion and you can and will do as you see fit, I still feel they did not warrant the warning points. I do agree I did deserve the warning point for the other post.

WebSlave said:
It's really not so much the words themselves being used, it is actually the INTENT of that usage that I am trying to curtail. Most people use profanity to elevate the flame level of a discussion. Those sorts of words generally will invoke a defense response that often gets a reply in like kind or even at an even higher level of flame worthiness. If we can curtail this from the beginning, then I believe the level of conversations here can be less antagonistic and have more pure informational content then we have been seeing. After all, isn't that really what this should be all about?
Click to expand...

While it would be nice if we could all get along, it just isn't going to happen. Antagonism, as unfortunate as it is, is needed in some cases. You have to stir the pot to see what's in there sometimes. How many times has some undesirable character been been tripped up after a defense response had been invoked? Without some leeway I feel the informational content will become skewed. While I agree some folks are not deserving of the antagonism they receive there are those who are and need it in order to show their true colors. I think that's where moderation comes in.

The same goes for those posts that receive negative Karma, some may not deserve it while others definitely do. To go out of your way to hit post after post someone makes just because you don't like that person would be considered abuse in my book. Only allowing positive karma though, again skews the informational content here. The little red dot next to your name will either open your eyes or allow others to see your refusal to do so. To use the Karma system to use language known to be inappropriate I agree should not be allowed.
 
Clay Davenport said:
I doubt it was the only one you ever got.
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I've got many good and bad comments over the years, but yours stood out. What kind of lame defense is it anyway, when we are speaking of inappropriate karma comments, to tell someone that others have done the same. Try that, Clay, if you ever get stopped for speeding.
 
Here is my opinion.

It will be nice to stop the bad comments becuase they can be viewed by everyone.

But to allow words to get to you. NO NO words on the interenet get to you then that is sad in its own right. Not everyone is going to like you. Not everyone is going to like what you do or say. Who cares. Do you live to make that person happy. Shrug it off and dont let it bother you. You will be better off.
 
I agree Gary, but as you know when it comes to internet forums there are a lot of variables and feelings involved. I think removing access to the negative karma was a great decision by Rich and will effect the site in a "positive" manner. I know that some on here were most assuredly abusing it and also doling out negatives way too much. I think I could count on one hand the number of negative karma "dings" I have given out over the entire history of the karma system being implemented on Fauna, and I also think I have regretted giving every one afterwards.
 
lucille said:
I've got many good and bad comments over the years, but yours stood out. What kind of lame defense is it anyway, when we are speaking of inappropriate karma comments, to tell someone that others have done the same. Try that, Clay, if you ever get stopped for speeding.
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It wasn't a defense, merely pointing out a highly probable fact.

Although I have no recollection of the incident, I don't doubt it happened. Nor do I doubt it stood out in your memory. I am very rarely moved to make such a comment but when I am I have sufficient reason to make it a bitter pill to swallow for all but the most calloused skinned.

However, I think the only reason you singled me alone out in your above post is because of my recently becoming a mod. First I was an "interesting choice" now this. You apparently have a problem with me, perhaps whatever comment I made however long ago is at the root of it I don't know, but if it bothers you to that point feel free to take it up with Rich or whatever you deem necessary, but going around the forums taking little potshots and making snide comments is nothing short of childish.

So air it out or let it go, I value your opinion of me just a little less than your opinion of next weeks weather, and if you think some sort of apology is in order there isn't one forthcoming.
 
All the Karma system allows is peoples inability to agree or disagree rationally,turn into a pissing contest,it serves no purpose but to create hard feelings!Just because we dont agree does not mean that you are not a good person to deal with.It is not a reflection of your business practices or quality of your animals.The entire Karma system should be removed and only real transactions between each other should be reported in the Trader Rating System.I dont care if we dont like each other or agree with each other,what I do care about is that your animals,shipping and business ethics are good,just my opinions.
 
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