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Bad Guy Katie Miner from Caldwell, Idaho

rivendale_exotics

rivendale_exotics

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I agreed to do a trade with Katie Miner for one of my high-end AC line crested gecko males. I first received an offer for the gecko from Josh Savel, who wanted to trade me a mini Exo Terra for him. I told Josh that the Exo Terra would need to be in perfect condition and that he could add cash to make up for the higher value of the gecko. He wrote me back saying he could add 10 gallon tanks to the deal. I told him 10 gallon tanks were not worth very much to me. He stopped writing at this point and I started receiving text messages from Katie Miner saying she was interested in the crested gecko. When she offered me the same things Josh had been offering, I asked if the Exo Terra belonged to Josh, knowing that Josh had told me in an earlier dealing that him and Katie had plans to be business partners selling reptiles in the future. She said the Exo Terra was Josh's and the other tanks were hers and stated that her and Josh work together. I agreed to try to work out a deal with her as long as everything was in excellent shape.

She stated that the tanks and equipment she would be giving me were in perfect shape. I agreed to do the trade late at night in the dark because that was the only time she said she could get away from her kids, and I went through with the trade without thoroughly inspecting what I was getting first. This was my mistake for being so trusting. The tanks and supplies I traded for turned out to be severely chewed by rats and the mini Exo Terra had a badly melted top, rust, broken snap locks, mold and bad hard water stains.

I offered several options to rectify the situation, but she is only being standoffish and saying it is not her problem. She now has my gecko and is refusing to return him and take her stuff back or to pay for the discrepancy in value. Katie states that the gecko is not hers to give back as it now belongs to Josh Savel since she was only doing the deal for him. Her first text to me states "I really want that male", not "Josh really wants that male". Not even 24 hours have passed. I attempted to contact Josh for confirmation of Katie's story, but have received no replies. It is my fault for trusting her and not insisting on checking the tanks before going through with the trade.

I am writing this off as a huge loss and my mistake. I just want others to be aware of this in case they have dealings with Katie.
 
I know its not what you want to hear, but it really is your responsibility to inspect the stuff you were getting in exchange. Regardless of the time of night or lighting conditions, you should have checked. A guy tried this on me and I used the light from my cell phone to inspect the cage. Once you agree and exchanged the goods, you are accepting the stuff, regardless of her prior descriptions.
 
Jessica, you made this trade in person so it is your mistake not looking at the trade goods better. kinda bad on your part trying to get some cash out of this deal at a later date, don't you think?

Next trade you do if you ever do another you will look harder at what you are getting.

Hard lesson learned.
 
Always, always, always inspect the merchandise you are receiving. There is always a light source somewhere (ie, cell phone, head lights, inside car roof light, street lights usually somewhere near, etc). Its a fact of life that the average person should know, these days people are untrusting and should go into every deal (unless you really know the other person) apprehensive and untrusting and look over everything with a fine tooth comb and twice or three times, if need be.
 
Yes, I realize this was totally my mistake and I have definitely learned a lesson. I stated as much in my posting. I only offered her the chance to rectify the situation so that she could prove to be a trustworthy and upstanding person since she wants to open a reptile business in the future. I don't care as much about the cash I lost as I do about a person being dishonest and rude. I had dealt with Katie Miner before and transactions had gone fine so I thought it was okay to trust her. Now I just want others to know to be careful if they deal with her. If she was willing to try pulling one over on me, she may be willing to pull tricks on people in the future.
 
reticguy76 said:
Always, always, always inspect the merchandise you are receiving. There is always a light source somewhere (ie, cell phone, head lights, inside car roof light, street lights usually somewhere near, etc). Its a fact of life that the average person should know, these days people are untrusting and should go into every deal (unless you really know the other person) apprehensive and untrusting and look over everything with a fine tooth comb and twice or three times, if need be.
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Thanks for the tips. I've got a pretty intense security system on my house and I live in one of the lowest crime rate areas in the country. You would think I would have known better. Hopefully others with less experience will read this and not have to learn the hard way like me.
 
I know you are upset, but can you honestly say she was dishonest? Had she told you the stuff was mint condition, then shipped it to you that would be different. But you met up and had a chance to look the stuff over and say no thank you. Like I said before , if you take the goods then it is implied you are/were ok with the condition.
 
bmr1052 said:
I know you are upset, but can you honestly say she was dishonest? Had she told you the stuff was mint condition, then shipped it to you that would be different.
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HUH? It's only a lie if it's caught right away, or if there's shipping involved? It's not rocket surgery. If someone says it's "mint", and it turns out that it's far from it, that's a lie. The OP's negligence, in not closely examining the items prior to accepting the trade, does nothing to negate them having been misrepresented. It only effects her degree of recourse. As it was done in person, and she accepted the tanks, she's pretty much SOL.

It's a hard, yet valuable, lesson learned for the OP.
 
ApexPredatorBoids said:
HUH? It's only a lie if it's caught right away, or if there's shipping involved? It's not rocket surgery. If someone says it's "mint", and it turns out that it's far from it, that's a lie. The OP's negligence, in not closely examining the items prior to accepting the trade, does nothing to negate them having been misrepresented. It only effects her degree of recourse. As it was done in person, and she accepted the tanks, she's pretty much SOL.

It's a hard, yet valuable, lesson learned for the OP.
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You are right, what I meant was yeah she said it was in excellent condition, but when she got there then the OP could have determined that their definitions of excellent were quite different. You can't except the goods then go home and say you know what, this stuff is crap and she lied. You could have easily checked it out first, and said hey this is garbage no thanks. The point I made about shipping was, she says its in great condition, you both ship out your goods, then you receive crap and they have your gecko. Then its too late, and you couldn't have inspected the goods prior to handing over your gecko. But that was not the case.
 
bmr1052 said:
I know you are upset, but can you honestly say she was dishonest? Had she told you the stuff was mint condition, then shipped it to you that would be different. But you met up and had a chance to look the stuff over and say no thank you. Like I said before , if you take the goods then it is implied you are/were ok with the condition.
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Wow you're thick. If she said the tanks were mint and they were in the condition stated by the OP, then yes, that's dishonesty. The mistake made by the OP doesn't negate the fact that someone was being deceitful. She is trying to warn others and you are stuck on the obvious.
 
Focal said:
Wow you're thick. If she said the tanks were mint and they were in the condition stated by the OP, then yes, that's dishonesty. The mistake made by the OP doesn't negate the fact that someone was being deceitful. She is trying to warn others and you are stuck on the obvious.
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This was pointed out, and I already clarified what I was getting at. You are right, just as the other person above was, the person misrepresented the condition of the goods, that's shady..
 
The reason I am asking to see some pics of the tanks is because a person's reputation is hanging on some one elses word. nothing in the way of proof has been posted yet.
 
Here are photos of the melted top and cracked glass with water stains and mold on the Exo Terra. Pictures of the molded, warped background do not really show up well.

I will try to take time out of my studying for the NCLEX RN to get pictures of the rat chewed tanks and other damage tomorrow as it is dark here now and those tanks from Katie's house are coming nowhere near the inside of my home since they wreak of cigarette smoke even after having sat to air out for more than a day. (If I could post the smell online, I would.)

Trade items included a 12x12x18 Exo Terra with light fixture (which turned out to be a cheaper Zoo Med fixture, not an Exo Terra) and 2 fake plants, 3 ten gallon tanks, a 20 gallon tall tank, 1 male mouse, 1 used rodent water bottle (half filled with dirty water), 3 used metal rodent water bottle holders and about 2 cubic feet of aspen bedding. I gave Katie the gecko and also gave her 8 weanling rats, 2 small adult female rats, 2 male mice and 1 female mouse for an additional $15.

I also took screenshots of the text message conversation about the condition of the stuff if anyone feels a need to see these. Katie does not deny the damage, claims she told me the tanks held rats (apparently I was supposed to assume they had all the plastic and silicone chewed off of them and that meant "perfect") and generally tries to downplay their condition and pass the blame onto Josh. I wish I had a recording of this because Katie's voice faltered when I first asked her about the warped top, which was the first thing I noticed when I took the light fixture off.

She made a bad choice, tried to get away with something and got called out on it. Regardless of my failure to thoroughly look over the supplies, it is bad business on her part and won't get her anywhere in the future. I have sold well over $1,000 worth of pythons and supplies to Katie in the past in many different transactions, often allowing her to put things on payment plans. I have given her great deals, selling her things at half of their value. I guess she could just not resist weaseling me out of a high-end gecko when I put it up for sale and she did not have the money to pay for it nor things of enough value to trade for it. Katie knew the value of the stuff she had, she knew my exact specifications of what I considered to be perfect condition and she knew she had my trust. She abused that.

Josh has still not replied to me, though I have tried several means of contacting him.

<a href="http://s1287.beta.photobucket.com/user/jwolf11/library/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a630/jwolf11/IMG_2963_zpsb789c678.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"/></a>

<a href="http://s1287.beta.photobucket.com/user/jwolf11/library/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a630/jwolf11/IMG_2962_zpsd214fbf6.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"/></a>
 
rivendale_exotics said:
<a href="http://s1287.beta.photobucket.com/user/jwolf11/library/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a630/jwolf11/IMG_2963_zpsb789c678.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"/></a>

<a href="http://s1287.beta.photobucket.com/user/jwolf11/library/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a630/jwolf11/IMG_2962_zpsd214fbf6.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"/></a>
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Here are the pics:
 

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This is kind of a grey area sometimes though. Conditions of cages are in the eye of the beholder , so to speak. If they function the way they are supposed to, to some, thats mint or near mint condition. That being said, when the seller said mint condition and once you viewed the merchandise, them saying mint didnt agree with your definition of mint, that should have been end of the deal. Not sure this warranted a "bad guy, big red x" label, compared to, maybe, an info/warning thread. Did the seller mis-represent the items?? In my opinion, and most people probably, yes. Should have examined the merchandise properly and then had the ability to back out, when the merchandise wasnt to your satisfaction ?? Yes.
 
I told Josh and Katie that for the tanks to be of high enough value for me to make the trade they would have to have no cracks or melted plastic, no hard water stains, no rust on the screens, no holes in the screens and generally be in excellent shape comparable to a new tank purchased from the store. Josh stopped communicating with me after this and Katie responded by telling me the tanks were perfect. I feel that if I tell a person the exact condition I expect things to be in and they respond with "yeah, the tanks are perfect", that means they are confirming the tanks to be in the condition I requested. The screens were described to me as being "new". They may have been purchased new, but all but one have holes, rust and/or melted plastic.

Katie's reaction to me questioning her about the actual condition of the stuff was to get defensive and blame Josh, not say sorry about a misunderstanding of what "perfect" meant or to ask what she could do to remedy the situation. I did not immediately ask to reverse the trade or to get the value I should have gotten back. At first all I said was that the Exo Terra's top was pretty messed up and asked if she or Josh had a replacement for it since it was the old style that I can't buy replacements for. I gave her every chance to be responsible and cordial. She immediately started lying to me and passing on the blame.

I still do not know who actually has the gecko. I feel a red X is warranted due to the lies, deceit and inability to take on responsibility. She wrote to me about how much she wanted the gecko and stated again when I was handing him to her how much she had been wanting him and some of my other geckos. Then when I talk to her again she says "not my gecko, not my deal. Talk to Josh." Yes, we might have two very different meanings of "perfect", but Katie cannot even be honest about who is actually the one that wanted the gecko and who is now the owner of the gecko. Isn't it convenient to make a deal and say that you were just a surrogate dealmaker so it is not your responsibility when the deal turns out bad. I do not think this is the sort of person people want to deal with.
 
While, yes, in everyday life, it is ideal to describe what you want and get the merchandise that way. However, that is why we must observe and view the merchandise prior to obtaining. Over the internet and such is different because they can always send a different pic of a perfect condition item, but then actually send you one less perfect, as this one. Meeting in person though and having the ability to view the merchandise in the physical sense and to the naked eye, the opportunity was there to say, this isnt what I was wanting or expecting based on what I described I wanted to you and want you described you had available. The deal should have been called off and each retained their original item(s)

Again, should people be informed about the lies and and misrepresentation from the thread topic (seller/other party)?? Absolutely.

But this could have all been nullified and void had you properly inspected the merchandise and decided that it wasnt what you had anticipated, nor wanted.

If this deal had been done via internet where you received false pics and such, absolutely, a bad guy thread. But this could have been avoided by properly inspecting the merchandise while in person. Therefore, both are responsible (more one than the other, but still both played a part and this deal could have been halted if done properly), in my eyes, an info thread is more appropriate. Just how I view this
 
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