• Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

Keene's Reptiles??

Reply to Troy Cromwell, & Swag!!

For one I thought if someone posted or replyed to a thread they had to put there there full name on it or it would not be posted? Who is SWAG??

I would like to know what is so funny about us selling Pastel Ball Pythons? Also, I can charge what I want for my snakes! I am not out to rip people off like some of you people who want to charge a rediculous amount (like some charging $2,000 dollars).

And, by the way SWAG! Who ever you are won't even put his name on his thread!
What is so hilarious?

They are NOT in the (exact same enclosures)!!!
What do you mean by (he has magical dichromatic shavings substrates)??
What is that suppost to mean??

The picture of the Pastel balls, is dim for two reasons!
they are shedding and we haven't had the camera very long still playing with it to try to get better pictures!

You people should NOT make a habbit out of downing others you DON'T even know. Our email was on the ad, if you had a problem with us you could have contacted us FRIST! But you chose not to do that. That just shows other people what type of person you are!!!

Teresa Keene
Keene's Reptiles
 
1) Swag's reply is indeed in violation of the rules of the BOI, and was also uncalled for. It is quite apparent that the photos were merely taken under different lighting conditions and not manipulated.

2) Sorry to say, the "pastels" that were pictured appear to be nothing more than nice-looking normal ball pythons. Then again, for $180, that's really all one should expect.
 
Teresa -

I'm not trying to attack here, but the issue is that an advertisement for "Pastel" balls would be taken by most to mean the morph that is so sought after, not a light colored BP, and people may think that you're trying to be dishonest in your advertisements. Most people familiar with morphs will understand the difference between the BPs you are advertising and the ones that cost thousands, but newcomers to the hobby might find it confusing.

I'm sure you weren't trying to fool anyone with the animals you have for sale, or you would have advertised them for a much higher price. I'm simply pointing out what the perception might be.
 
Those are NOT Pastels PERIOD

I would like to know what is so funny about us selling Pastel Ball Pythons? Also, I can charge what I want for my snakes! I am not out to rip people off like some of you people who want to charge a rediculous amount (like some charging $2,000 dollars).
Click to expand...

Ummm, you're not selling Pastel Ball pythons, and there's nothing funny about it. The people that work worth these animals invest alot of time & money in doing so. Dedication, patience, money, and luck go into producing these animals. As far as I am concerned, $180 for that "Pastel" IS ripping somebody off. Nice 02' Normal females average going price right now is around $50-$65.

You people should NOT make a habbit out of downing others you DON'T even know. Our email was on the ad, if you had a problem with us you could have contacted us FRIST! But you chose not to do that. That just shows other people what type of person you are!!!
Click to expand...

The type of person I am??? A loving father of 2 beautiful daughters and 3 step-sons, ages 5 through 19. I consider myself to be sensitive, caring, honest, funny, blessed, lucky, and tired. I also think the animals I've sold speak enough for the type of person I am. Howver, you are right in saying I should have contacted you first, but I guess I've done that so many times in the past w/ other sellers, for nodda. Bottom line, it's not a Pastel, so if you're trying to sell it as one, it's wrong...even if it's for 1/5 of the money a real Pastel would cost. The reason for this post, I feel an overwhelming majority of buyers & sellers are sickened by some of the ads posted as of late, especially regarding BP's, not your ad inparticular and it was probrably a bad example, at least you weren't asking $1800, but I guess I just stumbled on it at the wrong time. I'm not into downing people.

If in fact, you bought this as a Pastel, and you're fairly new to the BP market, and didn't know any better, then it's a very honest mistake, it can be confusing keeping up w/ all the stuff going on, and I apologize wholeheartedly.
 
Reply to Troy Cromwell & Ken Harbart!

To Mr. Harbart,
Thank you for your help and understanding!


To Mr. Cromwell,
I also think the Reptiles I've sold speak well of us! We are not trying to rip anyone off! The pictures DON'T do the snakes justice that is a given.

I will not run the ad for the Pastel Balls, until I have a few other people I know that have been working with Morphs for many years look at our male and female & the babies we are selling to see what they think about them. I don't want to be unfair to anyone I am not in the business to loose customers over a mistake, we how ever are not fairly new to BP. We have been breeding all different kinds of Reptiles for many years, but thats not to say we are all ways experts in what we preceive as one color from another. I believe everone makes mistakes(thats what make us HUMAN).
If we have made a mistake we will correct it! Thank you for you apology!
_______________
Teresa Keene
Keene's Reptiles
 
I think even despite the overexposure on the pastel pic, that those snakes aren't pastels. Are you saying that these are pastels? If so, perhaps a better picture would help.

What's the deal? Are these co-dominant pastels or just light normals?
 
Here are some general guidelines that I've found for descriptions of Pastels; Light colored irises (mine are gray), light tongues, bright coloration, they have an outlined darker pattern that fades out (blushing), the top half is a darker gold than the bottom half, and the black fleckling usually found on the underside is gone leaving it pretty much white.
If you did not purchase the adult animals as Pastels they probably are not Pastels. I've heard stories of people getting Pastels as normals in big bunches of captive hatced balls, and it could happen, but the pics really look like normals. I think everyone using terms such as pied, pastel, caramel, etc.. should really think about what they are posting if they want to get taken seriously. When these are desired traits that people are seeking, its bad business to lure someone in who is unsuspecting and hoping they just lucked into a good deal.
Teresa,
As far as your statement about people charging $2000 for Pastels and ripping people off... That is a very ridiculous comment. Where did you get the right to downplay the animals that people like me have purchased? That comment basically said that The Snake Keeper, Nerd, VPI, Graziani and all the other well respected big names in Ball Pythons are ripping people off? How much money did you spend, and what lineage is your Pastel breeding group? I will attach a picture of a Pastel female that I recieved from the Sutherlands, and I can assure you no amount of bad lighting or camera knowledge can make her look like your normals. Making mistakes is fine, but to put other breeders down down because you dont know the difference between a pastel and a normal is not right. Does this snake look like I got ripped off?
Thanks, Tom Baker
 

Attachments

  • pastel female 001.jpg
    pastel female 001.jpg
    52.6 KB · Views: 354
First off, apologies for neglecting to post my full name, Saul Allen, in my initial post. That was just a careless error...
I do, however, stand by that initial post. Perhaps "hilarious" was taken as too harsh, but I thought it extremely inappropriate to misrepresent an animal in that manner. Perhaps the sellers truly believe that those "normals" were "pastels," but if so, they still need to do significantly more research into what comprises a "pastel." Uninformed herpers, new members to the hobby, could have tried to take advantage of that offer, not realizing that instead of an inheritable genetic trait, they were getting marginally lighter "normals." The debate about the "actual value" of morphs does not need to take place here, but obvviously the sellers are aware of the discrepancy, because they are pricing their "normals" significantly lower. That would imply that these "pastels" are somehow different. That is simply not fair to the beginning herper, and offensive to the standards of the more experienced. Not a responsible advertisement.

-Saul Allen.
 
I do not know if they still understand...

The word PASTEL is used to describe a known ball python morph, that has been proven to be genetic. The price range varies from breeder to breeder, and is dependant on the sex of the snake. The ranges I have seen are $800-1,000 for males and $1200-2500 for females. If you want to "give the people a good deal" and charge say $500 for a male, proven line pastel, then that is one thing. However, to MISSREPRESENT an animal, giving the FALSE notion to some new ball keeper that he is getting the GENETIC pastel when all he is getting is an overpriced normal is clearly something different, and totally unexceptable. Do your research on animals BEFORE you try selling them and have this sort of thread begin, it is very bad for business.


David Reid
 
I do not know if they still understand...

I think David Reid nailed this one right on the head!

Below is David's quote -

"However, to MISSREPRESENT an animal, giving the FALSE notion to some new ball keeper that he is getting the GENETIC pastel when all he is getting is an overpriced normal is clearly something different, and totally unexceptable. Do your research on animals BEFORE you try selling them and have this sort of thread begin, it is very bad for business."

I would then add the following -

Trying to pass off a normal for a pastel is what is called ...."FRAUD."

Yes, a beginner herp should be cut a little slack, but many breeders spend a huge amount of money and time to develop these projects. Some research should of gone into this subject before offering a normal as a pastel, it's that simple!

Scott Collien
 
I thinbk you're misunderstanding this persons post, and what he is selling. He listed his snake as a pastel ball python, NOT a jungle pastel ball python, for those of you familiar with ball pythons, there is a BIG difference between the two, I'd say about $1500. Graziani, Nerd, VPI, etc. sell jungle pastels, which, to the best of my knowledge ( which, in this case, is fairly extensive) is a co-dominant trait, which means that whatever you breed a JUNGLE PASTEL to, you will get a JUNGLE PASTEL. A breeding of two JUNGLE PASTELS will produce a SUPER JUNGLE PASTEL ($15000-$20000 U.S.) There is no het jungle pastels. Co-dominant JUNGLE PASTELS = $1250-$3000. What this person is selling is a jungle pastel, which, again, ONLY refers to the pattern and possibly the light coloration of the snake. This is NOT a morph, but an abnormal ball, much like the granite, high-yellow, banded, reduced pattern and so on. These are not genetic traits, and for the most part, are not carried on in the blood line. Hence, the lower price tag. Giv ethe guy a break, IF he were selling his pastels for $1500 then you could jump on his back, but your lynch mob mentality is not justifiable in this case.


Michael Charanduk
 
You've lost me...

This thread is way old, Keene's removed the add the second day, so did you even see the pics of the Pastel in question?? Please clarify some of your previous statements...

I thinbk you're misunderstanding this persons post, and what he is selling. He listed his snake as a pastel ball python, NOT a jungle pastel ball python, for those of you familiar with ball pythons, there is a BIG difference between the two
Click to expand...

Please elaborate...below are some links to help us all understand. Pastel-Jungle Pastel from my understanding are one in the same. This info comes direct from Mark S. Bell, BHB Ent., Kevin NERD, and more...who are your sources??

Ballpython.com
NERD


Secondly, where did you get the information you state below??



There is no het jungle pastels. Co-dominant JUNGLE PASTELS = $1250-$3000. What this person is selling is a jungle pastel, which, again, ONLY refers to the pattern and possibly the light coloration of the snake. This is NOT a morph, but an abnormal ball, much like the granite, high-yellow, banded, reduced pattern and so on. These are not genetic traits, and for the most part, are not carried on in the blood line. Hence, the lower price tag
Click to expand...

Pastels are "hets" technically - here's some more info for you to check out.


Incomplete Dominance Info:


Giv ethe guy a break, IF he were selling his pastels for $1500 then you could jump on his back, but your lynch mob mentality is not justifiable in this case.
Click to expand...

I've witnessed some threads where forum users have "voiced" their opinion in less than appropriate mannerisms, but I also see where some of this was justifiable, w/ all of the "bad guys" out there, and all of the "newbies" w/ dreams and aspirations of becoming a full-time Bob Clark (no disrespect to those of you who have those dreams, dreams are a good thing)but I see an increase in wrongfully or misrepresented animals, at way above average or even fair price tags. This thread served it's purpose, the seller "unknowingly" used the term "pastel" to describe an animal that in their opinion was lighter, maybe paler than some. With the ever changing hobby, and the reality of new morphs getting "names" we've seen an alarming increase in mis- representation, some from not knowing any better, excusable, some in trying to make an extra $200 or even $2000, unexcusable. I've also noticed a significant increase in people that don't know as much as they think they know, reply to threads, sell animals, buy animals, and give advice on husbandry, etc. techniques. Hopefully most of us will learn who to-and who not to heed their advice.
 
You should re-read the Nerd page, and the Sutherlands AGAIN. Pastels are commonly used to describe a snake that is lighter in colour, yet NOT genetic. You are correct, I did not see the snake in question, however, from the ads that I have seen, yes, you are correct in that people are trying to make an extra couple of bucks trying to pass their "normal" balls as some kind of new and wonderful morph. This sickens me. The prices that people TRY to charge for such animals also disguists me. However, "normal" ball pythons are a certain price, set by the people who purchase them. I'm in Canada, but I'd say $40 -$100 U.S.? For any ball that looks different from what we all would consider 'normal' balls, the prices begin to go up. The more different=higher prices. Now if these balls that were posted were different looking, then he had all the right in the world to charge $180 for it. A banded ball python is clearly a 'normal' ball, but looks slightly different, and many people, including myself, have purchased them from anywhere from $150-$400 Can. The buyer does not set the price for a reptile, the BUYER does, if I were to try to sell an albino ball for $15000 I would qiuckly find out that the buyer (market) dictates that an albino is worth between $2000-$3000. If your prices are too high, you WILL NEVER SELL YOUR ANIMAL. AS for all the 'newbies" who do not know any better; LEARN. I agree that anyone who tries to take advantage of uneducated buyers is slime, in any business, but there is a way to not get fleeced by these people. GET EDUCATED.



Michael Charanduk
 
Very well said. I agree 100%. Newcomers to the hobby...do your homework.
 
What this person is selling is a jungle pastel, which, again, ONLY refers to the pattern and possibly the light coloration of the snake. This is NOT a morph,
Click to expand...

so pastel jungles, or jungle pastels are not genetic??

You should check out a few other websites and maybe read to jump or not to jump in the gb forum.

Be it Pastel, Pastel Jungle or Jungle Pastel, they are all a names or terms describeing a PROVEN animal.

In the last year I purchased 3 male Pastels.
I know that I bought 3 geneticly proven animals, even though 2 have yet to breed. I sold one of these for $1850, it was sold as a Pastel Ball.

There are alot of breeders and dealers that use the term Pastel ball to describe the proven co-dom animal. And some people really need to get over the fact that a Pastel ball is a proven genetic morph.

Look at all the ads that say "pastelish" or "pastel like", that is done to avoid all of this nonsense and confussion.
 
You should re-read the Nerd page, and the Sutherlands AGAIN. Pastels are commonly used to describe a snake that is lighter in colour, yet NOT genetic.
Click to expand...

Mykee perhaps it is YOU who should reread.

Pastel ball pythons ARE genetic
 
Back
Top