Keeping snakes in the same cage

[Mooing Tricycle]

I disagree. I have kept corns together for multiple generations. I have kept milks together for multiple genrations. I have kept hognoses together for multiple generations. I have kept jungle corns together for multiple generations.

Long ago, when I had my shop, I did many experiments on who would live with whom. Hogs and corns can live nicely in the same enclosure and can survive quite healthily.

Most don't recommend it but it can be done, is being done, with ease.

I have to disagree too, this informaton is all well and good for experienced herpers, But NOT something you should be passing around to new keepers who know nothing of the spread of diseases betweens animals or specific specie care. Snakes are not friends with eachother and are solitary animals. they should never be housed together for any other purpose than breeding.

 

[Wilomn]

I have to disagree too, this informaton is all well and good for experienced herpers, But NOT something you should be passing around to new keepers who know nothing of the spread of diseases betweens animals or specific specie care. Snakes are not friends with eachother and are solitary animals. they should never be housed together for any other purpose than breeding.

So, all those times I've found seveal kings, gophers, crots, sharptials, night snakes, coachwhips, lyres, and a plethora of others, under the same cover or in the same hole, they were all on Death's Doorstep?

Look, I know you're stephs friend, but don't go making this personal.

She's wrong, you're wrong.

And since WHEN do you with hold ANY information from a newbie? You two got some sort of outline of what needs to be told to a newbie and when they need to be told?

I also hear rumors of LOTS of rattlesnakes denning together. Guess they haven't heard from you or she of the massive moons, eh?

Oh and hey, what about all those garters, reliablly counted in the thousands that group together EVERY DANG YEAR for cooling and breeding?

I reckon THEY haven't heard from you or your friend either, huh?

You two should just let it go. All you are doing is cementing in the minds of The Faithful Fauna Readers that you are not anywhere NEAR as knowledgable as you PRETEND to be.

And then of course there's the fact that it has been done successfully many times by many people in captive populations.

But we can ignore all of that and just listen to you two founts of wisdom.

NOT

 

[Astara]

Yes, Chris, I never expected this many replies when I posted a single question! Heh.

But back on track, thanks to everyone for the on-topic replies. I didn't realize there were more risks than just cannibalism (that's the only one that I thought of myself).

I am already planning on buying a larger cage for my corn, so that is not an issue. If I do end up buying another snake, it will go in the cage I currently have and I'll just need to buy another heating lamp.

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

group together EVERY DANG YEAR for cooling and breeding?

Yeah, For Just that. Cooling, and BREEDING. /point

youre being very silly you realize... I dont really know Steph actually at all... i almost know you better than i know her. So in that sense, youre very wrong.

( not.. that knowing steph would be a bad thing of course! im sure shes a sweetie)

All im saying is, passing around this information that its been done and okay in your mindset, is not right to give to NEW keepers. People that just dont understand the important parts of keeping these animals healthy and well, and stress free.
Sure experienced keepers can do this because they understand their animals and their dispositions, they know whos eaten what and whos healthy for sure. BUT when somone like you says its okay to house two DIFFERENT species together in passing and breifly, then thats all the newbies will read and theyll go on ahead and do it.
I dont think thats very responsible as a keeper and breeder at all.

Teaching these new keepers ( and im still learning here) and showing them how to properly care for one animal before they get another is what should be going on. Not "oh toss em together, they MIGHT be fine".

Sure, youve done it. but others have too wes, others have also had BAD experiences with doing such things. Otherwise, why would so many of the herp keeping world advise against it???? im noy just saying anything because its fun and i like to argue with you. Trust me, arguing with you is NOT fun.

Sure animals in the wild will be homed together for shelter. something thats not that easy to find in the wild. But these are Captive animals, and should be treated as such.

why do you resort to insults? it dosnt really help your argument any?

 

[Wilomn]

Maybe I missed it, and here comes more fauna drama, but did I ever say, "oh toss em together, they MIGHT be fine"?

You see, by the way you wrote your post, not crediting your quote, you could lead some to believe that I said those words, of which I have no recollection of ever saying in regards to this topic.

Maybe you guys should just stop before I stop being amused and only slightly irritated and actually put some thought into "playing" with you.

By the way, saying SH T, in any forum, or so say my warning points, is an EDITABLE offense and will also garner a warning.

What the difference, for this case, between you swearing and my being creative with names? Simple, one is against the rules (that's you by the way) and one is NOT against the rules, (me, just so you know who I mean).

The truth may be insulting to those who don't want to face their errors, but it's still the truth. If you're hurt over it, you may want to ask yourself why. I seriously doubt it's because you care what I think.

I have also never recommeded that anyone keep more than one species in the same enclosure, as you seem to be implying, just that it is possible.

We have a big problem out here in Lala Land with our teachers. Many of them don't know enough about the subjects they "teach" to be a credit to those who DO know of which they speak, and yet, because no one else wants the job, they teach those who don't know how little the teacher actually knows.

Funny how things so far apart distance wise can be so close in their very essenses.

Isn't it?

 

[hhmoore]

I was going to comment further but, at the moment, I just can't bring myself to do it. Let it suffice to say that recommendations are just that. They are not absolutes, and going against somebody's recommendations does not automatically mean "wrong". The dangers of housing snakes together have been presented; the fact that it can be done has been acknowledged (well, disputed by some - but for the wrong reasons). One cannot legitimately say it can't be done in the presence of evidence that it can. Nobody has stated that they recommend the practice...so why fuel the fire?
Alicia - I have to contest your statements about the appropriateness of Wes' (and in effect, my) comments for newbies...are you suggesting that we lie to them? Is there a specific time frame, or other milestone that indicates their readiness to receive facts? Remember, as I pointed out above, nobody has stated that they recommend the practice of cohabitation. In fact, I regularly recommend against it. There is, however, a difference between recommending against it and saying it is wrong, or that it cannot be done.

What some people seem to be missing is that there are very few absolutes, and this isn't about right and wrong. Different strokes for different folks, and all that. What works for one person may be disasterous when attempted by another.
Stephanie, who spoke (typed) adamantly against cohabitating snakes admits that she has done it herself...now she "knows better". You know what - good for her. She is happy with how she is doing things, and it works for her. Wes cohabitates some of his snakes, has been doing so for longer than many people have been keeping snakes - he is happy with that...(you guessed it) good for him. Does that mean that either of them are wrong for their choice? NO. Does it give either of them the right, or reason, to criticize the other for their way? NO.

(darn it, I guess I responded after all, lol)

 

[Wilomn]

I don't recall ever saying keeping snakes solo was wrong. Heck, at least 75% of mine live solo.

I just don't like someone saying a thing is wrong when it is not true.

As Harold said, no one is right or wrong UNTIL they say their way is the only way, which I, as opposed to some here, have yet to say.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Ok everyone, this really doesn't need to continue on. I appreciate everyones input and this is bringing more traffic to this section of fauna, but we don't need the bickering to continue.

Astara, I hope your questions were answered and you have the information you need to make an educated decision.

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

Alicia - I have to contest your statements about the appropriateness of Wes' (and in effect, my) comments for newbies...are you suggesting that we lie to them? Is there a specific time frame, or other milestone that indicates their readiness to receive facts? Remember, as I pointed out above, nobody has stated that they recommend the practice of cohabitation. In fact, I regularly recommend against it. There is, however, a difference between recommending against it and saying it is wrong, or that it cannot be done.

im not suggesting at all that anyone lie to anyone, but when wording posts to a new keeper, caution should be taken.

I know when i first started looking into snakes and wanted to get a few, i thought of housing them together. But i was advised against it by many people. But. if i had seen that "yeah sure, i do it and havent had a problem" i would have probably taken that information to heart, and done so, and then realized later on, possibly one snake less, that this information was very wrong.

Its one thing when asking to house two of the same specie of animal together, like corn snakes for example, which i dont see as something HORRIBLE. i know of a few people that are doing that. but when asking to house a semi venomous with a non venomous, they should be told no. but thats just my personal feelings on the isse.

All im saying is, sure, people who have kept a few species and know which are more canabalistic than others, can keep them together if thats what they want to do. But offering this information to new keepers without restraint, or a strong word of caution isnt really a smart idea.

Personally im more against the keeping of two animals together, same specie or not. because of the risks involved. Just as some people choose to only feed prekilled prey over live, because of the risks.

Im not saying literally wes, or you are wrong for it. but its not a good idea, and thats just something i personally feel.

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

I have also never recommeded that anyone keep more than one species in the same enclosure, as you seem to be implying, just that it is possible.

When you say you HAVE done something, thats sort of saying, yeah. its okay. ive done it, no problem. when in fact. it IS and can be a problem.

all new people will see when they look at this post, is your post.

"ive done it before, and had not problems"


i never once said YOU said anything, seriously posts on the internet are not always Literal. im just writing in my own words. so really, youve got to stop the "Youre putting words in my mouth" when.. really.. youre doing the same thing to others by saying i said something, in which i didnt.


you know, its funny that you pick one WRONG thing about my post, a silly swear word. and chose to comment on that. but your posts are FAR more offensive than mine will ever be, and they dont even have a swear word in them.

keep the fire going wes.

 

[hhmoore]

psssst.
Wes.
wrong person.
That was Alicia you were responding to, not Steph. (though she was the one that used the word)

 

[Wilomn]

psssst.
Wes.
wrong person.
That was Alicia you were responding to, not Steph. (though she was the one that used the word)

oops, sorry.

They sort of blurred there.

 

[hhmoore]

Alicia, you are late to this party - keep in mind that the early content has changed some since it began. Minimally...just a few words, really. But that was enough to totally change the context of a post.

I have no argument with you, and will not make one. I think you will agree that I am, as a rule, very much aware of the variety of people that might read my posts; and my phrasing generally reflects that. Before you respond, think (or look) back to exactly what I have said in this thread.

So many people have been throwing in the comment "except for breeding". That amuses me because it has been during periods of cohabitation for that specific purpose that I have had the most incident. The black mexican kingsnake female that grabbed the male by the head (and began trying to swallow) as soon as he touched her, the sinaloan male that decided that the minimally smaller female would make a better meal than partner, the albino nelsons that went after each other every time they were introduced. I can think of 8 separate pairings that I had these problems with. Before I knew better, I housed my colubrids in pairs...never had one problem. Keep in mind that I have never worked large scale with colubrids - In fact, I have probably only attempted to breed them on 5 separate years - so the frequency of the problems with breeding should lead me to speak against that, to leave the breeding to the pros, or (gasp) purchase WC animals to reduce the risk to captive populations. Of course, that last portion is silly (and totally tongue in cheek, in case there were any doubts), but rest assured I could make my argument convincing enough for those that don't know better...and those that do would be inclined to step in and tell me I am wrong.

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

eh?

I think you should fix this to post to whom its meant.

Yes. i swore, and if i get reprimanded because of it, then thats what happens. Im not too worried. I was wrong and admit it freely. such is my responsibility as a mature person who has wronged.


Such is life.

 

[ldydrgn]

Anybody mind if I throw in my 1/2 cent?

We generally keep all of our animals in seperate enclosures because I keep records and monitor health. We do have one pair that live together year round mainly because they won't breed if they are seperated. Very territorial and all that jazz....

This is much like the live vs. f/t debate. Some will say it's ok, some will argue vehemently against it. One will say, "Works for me, never had a problem" and another comes back with, "My snakes were chewed to pieces!"

Not everyone is going to have success with housing animals together and some will.

Quarantine first, naturally. If you wish to keep strict records, keep them seperated. If you decide to house them together down the road, then do what someone else suggested: feed them well and seperately. And most importantly, monitor behavior closely.

All in all.. do what works best for you as long as you do not notice any detrimental health issues with the cohabitants.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Ok guys, I'm locking this thread.

If anyone would like to add their opinions on cohabbing, please got to the Hognose forum here and post your opinions/experience. Please do not take any bickering over there.

Alicia, post #44 was edited to remove the offending word.

Wes, your post after #50 was removed because it was off topic.

Again, thank you all for bringing your opinion into this thread.