KelliH and others Banned? Why?

[varnyard]

You all can't tell, those of you who have posted, that you have NEVER said something nasty about someone behind their back. That is human nature. Not all of us would have posted it in a public forum, but if we thought that forum was closed and only open to the group of people we were chatting with, how many of you would have done THE SAME.

Well, If I did run my mouth behind a friends back. Then that would open me up to whatever I deserved, would it not? I would not stoop so low, but maybe you think that is the right thing to do, I however do not!!
I speak my mind, right up front!!

I read the comments that were written, then came here and read what SOME of those who were bashed had to say ..TRUTH does hurt doesn't it.

What truth? The TRUTH is they were caught back biting, they did not have the courage to be up front about it.

I never really had an opinion on many people here, simply because my social circle does not include on line forums. I have an educational opinion, as in , is this person a benefit to me to learn from, or am I better talking to the wall?

You are more than welcome to have your opinion, But that does not mean we must agree.

Can I ask questions and converse or will this person simply irritate me in their postings? The ones who were banned I never had a problem with. I thought and still do, think, very highly of their experience and knowledge. A few of who they were ranting about were ones that even, in my limited use, annoyed me and I never bothered with.

Well, I hate to say it, but they do have a site. If you are so bent on backing them, maybe they have room for one more.

Not all, as most I never really chatted with nor knew in any form. But they did. Aside from some of the younger, jump on the bandwagon ranters who really turned this ugly, what was said should be looked at as you know what, some of those hit the nail right on the head. SOME, not all. And considering those people who posted use this forum ALOT, I think they have a strong basis to form that opinion versus someone like me who visits once and awhile...
AND TME, saying that person who "turned them in" or what ever it was, slipped my mind what you said, and I think it was you who said it, yours was a post I just skimmed since I don't regularly read what you write...that person is called a traitor....THAT PERSON is who caused this.

Oh, come now, a "traitor...." of what?? Back biting?? If I have a friend that is stabbing my back I would want to know. A true friend would come and tell me.

Everyone talks about one another....GET OVER IT. It hurts...it sucks, but it is done.

How true, that is the exact reason they are banned. Myself, I choose not to GET OVER IT!!

Figure out if those comments by people who have a strong basis to form their opinions have any meaning or accuracy and then move on and see what you can change in your behavior, if a change is warranted.

The change has already been put into place.

What makes this high school ish is that person who tattle tailed...groups of people talking about one another, well there is no maturity level assigned to that, as EVERYONE does it. Running and telling and starting a drama like this whose effects will be long felt is malicious and childish.

No, everyone does not, but that gang does.

And to whoever quoted what I had said (I'm sorry the memory is gone from meds. swear I feel old at times) Yes, different people do carry different weight in forums. Lets say I have Jack and Jill in my forum.

But you don't, they went up the hill to fetch a pail of water.

Jack has 15 years experience and Jill is some punk 14 yr old who still uses heat rocks. They both bash me for whatever reason in another forum. I'd be very quick to want to remove Jill, as what does she truly contribute? (And here is where my admin folks discuss it and talk with her about it) But Jack? That would suck having to bite my tongue and grin and bear it. But his 15 years experience to offer to my forum outweighs my personal hurt. Yes I would want to ban him, say nasty things, and all that. WE ALL would want to react like that to someone who bashes us. Another human nature thing. we all talk about one another, we all get hurt and lash out....but where does it stop? Where does someone say, you know what, this is not good for this forum, it stops now and this is what I am going to do to repair the damage done?

Well, that is your opinion of what you would do. You are more than welcome to it. But if it was me, I would want them far from my site.

Everyone is saying, well they have shown their true colors! Guess what, those are your colors too, you just have never gotten caught yet. So Lucille, go ahead and give bad guy votes to those who hurt your feelings, that reflects on you. And TME, well, go ahead and pat that traitor on the back, invite that person into your group and see how quick they turn on you to benefit themselves...that is about the stupidest thing to say and do...

They did show their true colors!! I agree with that. As to the second part, I would not buy anything from someone that has been proven to be a liar. Can you trust a liar? No you can not. As for Lucille, she is more than welcome to her opinion, just like you. She feels it would be bad pool to deal with these people, and she is welcome to have that opinion.

So when someone throws a stone at you, do you throw one back? Or do you just turn and leave it be as maybe it really isn't worth it...Time is short. Time is so precious...you don't know when it is over...and is name calling and lashing out , while damaging two forums and their educational strenghts, really worth it?

No, but I do something to make sure the second one does not make contact.
Maybe like avoiding them like the plague. I would not call them good people or invite them back for lunch, would you?

 

[WebSlave]

You all can't tell, those of you who have posted, that you have NEVER said something nasty about someone behind their back. That is human nature. Not all of us would have posted it in a public forum, but if we thought that forum was closed and only open to the group of people we were chatting with, how many of you would have done THE SAME.
I read the comments that were written, then came here and read what SOME of those who were bashed had to say ..TRUTH does hurt doesn't it. I never really had an opinion on many people here, simply because my social circle does not include on line forums. I have an educational opinion, as in , is this person a benefit to me to learn from, or am I better talking to the wall? Can I ask questions and converse or will this person simply irritate me in their postings? The ones who were banned I never had a problem with. I thought and still do, think, very highly of their experience and knowledge. A few of who they were ranting about were ones that even, in my limited use, annoyed me and I never bothered with. Not all, as most I never really chatted with nor knew in any form. But they did. Aside from some of the younger, jump on the bandwagon ranters who really turned this ugly, what was said should be looked at as you know what, some of those hit the nail right on the head. SOME, not all. And considering those people who posted use this forum ALOT, I think they have a strong basis to form that opinion versus someone like me who visits once and awhile...
AND TME, saying that person who "turned them in" or what ever it was, slipped my mind what you said, and I think it was you who said it, yours was a post I just skimmed since I don't regularly read what you write...that person is called a traitor....THAT PERSON is who caused this. Everyone talks about one another....GET OVER IT. It hurts...it sucks, but it is done. Figure out if those comments by people who have a strong basis to form their opinions have any meaning or accuracy and then move on and see what you can change in your behavior, if a change is warranted.
What makes this high school ish is that person who tattle tailed...groups of people talking about one another, well there is no maturity level assigned to that, as EVERYONE does it. Running and telling and starting a drama like this whose effects will be long felt is malicious and childish.
And to whoever quoted what I had said (I'm sorry the memory is gone from meds. swear I feel old at times) Yes, different people do carry different weight in forums. Lets say I have Jack and Jill in my forum. Jack has 15 years experience and Jill is some punk 14 yr old who still uses heat rocks. They both bash me for whatever reason in another forum. I'd be very quick to want to remove Jill, as what does she truly contribute? (And here is where my admin folks discuss it and talk with her about it) But Jack? That would suck having to bite my tongue and grin and bear it. But his 15 years experience to offer to my forum outweighs my personal hurt. Yes I would want to ban him, say nasty things, and all that. WE ALL would want to react like that to someone who bashes us. Another human nature thing. we all talk about one another, we all get hurt and lash out....but where does it stop? Where does someone say, you know what, this is not good for this forum, it stops now and this is what I am going to do to repair the damage done?

Everyone is saying, well they have shown their true colors! Guess what, those are your colors too, you just have never gotten caught yet. So Lucille, go ahead and give bad guy votes to those who hurt your feelings, that reflects on you. And TME, well, go ahead and pat that traitor on the back, invite that person into your group and see how quick they turn on you to benefit themselves...that is about the stupidest thing to say and do...

So when someone throws a stone at you, do you throw one back? Or do you just turn and leave it be as maybe it really isn't worth it...Time is short. Time is so precious...you don't know when it is over...and is name calling and lashing out , while damaging two forums and their educational strenghts, really worth it?

Sorry bub, but I don't think that way. If you say such two-faced backstabbing things about ME and the people who are working hard HERE to help me, I don't care who you are, what you know, nor how much money you have and spend on this site. You are out of here. There is nothing that you have that I need. And you can take that attitude to the bank.

If you want to leave here first and say such things, then have at it. That is your freedom to do so. But DON'T be using this site to advertise your own business and pretend that this is such an oh so wonderful place and you are just so tickled pink to be a moderator here AND pull that crap at the same time.

 

[varnyard]

BINGO!! I feel the same way Rich!!

 

[ShannanD25]

Rich,
I'm a chic, so bub doesn't really apply, but anyways,
I just hate seeing fauna pulled apart like this over emotions and hurt feelings that is all. I can understand why, but is that to fauna's benefit or not?
bobby, I'm glad to see your halo is not tarnished in anyway. And where did they LIE about anything? They vented to a group of friend's over some things and got caught. They did not create false accusations and lie about it.

You are right, I do back them, and I back fauna, and every other reptile site I belong to. I'm sure they do have room for one more and guess what, I joined there too, simply to be able to further what I know about reptiles, not get into petty bickering with perfect, flawless saints. It must be so hard maintaining such perfectness and righteousness.

Rich you say "There is nothing that you have that I need" in reference to banning those who say nasty things...YOU may not need them, but I think the reptile community does need the experience and knowledge of some of the best. You are making decisions based on YOUR needs, YOUR feelings, YOUR site. But shouldn't it be for the best of the site, the best of it's supporter's and users?

And if I vent to my best friend about my Boss, or about a family member, does that make me a horrible business person? A horrible employee? A horrible relative? If I don't like my boss but smile to his face to create a better work place and just grin and bear it but vent to my friends, is that wrong? We all deal with inter personal relationships differently. Ideally, we should be able to confront others, but it just doesn't happen.

Bottom line, Fauna never suffered because of these differences. These differences never were brought up here because everyone worked together for the benefit of the community. I would never have known anything was wrong until Fauna brought this here and turned it into an issue. Things were said between a group of friends that were though t to be private. Doesn't make it right. But it doesn't make it a huge issue to blow out of proportion and ban people and cause the general reptile community to lose out on some great knowledge and experience. It doesn't make someone saying someone else is annoying or a kiss butt into a bad business person....This is way out of proportion. It is just very unfortunate.

 

[norsmis]

Shannan I know you mean well but don't you understand that all the people you are defending had every intention of leaving this site? Did you not read the quote by Kelli about Rich "trumping her ace"? They had something planned that I am sure had nothing to do with bettering the reptile community or this site. THAT is sinister no matter how you look at it. And she did this while smiling to Rich and everyone here in the face. You have no problem with that at all? Sorry but I do and it DOES reflect on their character and how they do business....

 

[varnyard]

Shannan, Where did the lie come in? Well, just in case it was not perfectly clear. When you act like a friend and then run behind their back with knife in hand. Well, what is that called?? Truth? I think not!! When you lie to someone's face, but run your mouth behind their back, that is what makes you a liar. Does that clear that up?

Or maybe I can say, Rich trusted these Mods with his site, and they chose to live a lie. That would also fit.

 

[DontShootMe]

some of u people just need to realize what's done is done including both sides and the war going on and get on with it. If you guys read from page 1 it's just the same things being repeated over and over with now new topics being addressed and just the same people repeating themselves just in different wording. Just get on with it, obviously there aint going to be any resolution till later on when everything has settled down and maybe when people come to their senses. Or maybe it might not even but just get on with it for now.

 

[DeeSWR]

In my opinion, both Kelli and Marcia knew about the new forum site Kelli was setting up at the time they accepted the moderator positions here on this site. From their comments, there is little doubt in my mind that they were planning to completely abandon this site, quite likely trying to recruit as many members as they could from the Leopard Gecko forum here in the process. It is my belief that my blocking their access to this site only sped up their agenda a bit. Nothing was really lost with them being banned except maybe a short period of time with them making token gestures at participating here while contacting other members with invitation to their site. I'm sorry, but does no one else see a bit of betrayal here with the Leopard Gecko moderator planning something like this behind the scenes?That the level of animosity exposed in that thread on Kelli's site runs way too deeply for me to believe anything else about their future plans?
[...]
So to those that do go there, all I can say is to watch your back and beware the crocodile's smile. They are not trying to draw you over there for your benefit, but obviously and in my opinion solely doing so in an attempt to hurt this site. This is spite in it's purest form, IMHO.

I'm going to be as honest as I can here. I've only been registered on Fauna for a short time, and lurking for roughly a year. Rich, this is your site, and I don't dispute your right to do whatever you want with it. However, YOU are the one whose actions lately have been questionable, and I believe that the "backstabbing" is a result of and response to your own actions.

Just in the few short months I've been registered, I've seen several situations that have really bothered me. I've seen you award warning points to one member for certain issues, and ignore the same "transgression" by another member, even after being notified of it. A more extreme example of this would be the way you booted Ian S. for "name calling" on the TSE thread, but allowed others to use much stronger language afterwards without so much as a warning point. As well, anyone who has been reading the TSE thread has seen the offensive way you referred to the Hayden Fund auctions. It was rude and uncalled for, and now you are finding out just how hurtful it was. Others, I'm sure, have kept silent for fear of the same consequences you have now exacted upon Kelli and others: instant banning, for expressing an honest opinion which was not even posted on this site. And speaking of TSE, don't you think that kind of behaviour reminds you of someone else?

I hardly see any conspiracy here; you brutally offend one of the top Leo breeders here, in one of the most personal ways possible, and because she wants to go elsewhere and create a more enjoyable atmosphere in which to share her knowledge, she's trying to take down your site...? Kelli and the others were expressing their opinions, something they couldn't do here. And the first phrase above, "In my opinion", is precisely correct: it is only your opinion, you have no proof of any long-term plan, and to say that the sole purpose in creating Geckoforums is to take you down is rather self-serving and arrogant.

If you look at the fact that Kelli already has 60+ members on a "test" site, you might stop and think what this is actually going to do to your site -- not because of the opinions that were stated there, but as a result of your bans here. People can frequent more than one site, and many would happily do so with both Fauna and Geckoforums; however, your actions are making it seem as if we have to choose between the two.

Ban me if you feel the need, but I would actually like to remain a member of this site as well. I may not agree with some of your methods, but I do appreciate the information that is shared here.

Darlene Pomroy

 

[LeosForLess]

Honestly, what is the difference between them being honest and coming out with it, and them just holding it in? Eventually everybodys emotions would have probably been revealed when kelli opened her new forum. And i see nothing wrong with her making a new forum, maybe this one was too strict for her, maybe she always wanted to be a big help and thats why she modded over here in the first place. Had they not come out with it all at once, there could have been tensions with other members forever. But now is the resolution, 2 separate leo forums.

 

[varnyard]

Kelli did express her feelings here, or should I say blew a smoke screen. Proof of this is the statement by her I posted earlier in this thread. She said:

I have no issues with anybody here, and if I ever do, I certainly would not play childish games with the person(s) on Fauna.

But now the TRUTH comes out.

She had every chance to tell Rich how she now says she feels. But chose not to.

 

[WebSlave]

Uh no. I have three part time workers. If I caught ANY of them badmouthing me out in public, they would get fired. Immediately. I am not putting money into the pockets of someone who feels that way about me. Period. Just as I would expect to have done to me if I were badmouthing my employer in a public place.

The fact that those people didn't bother to check to see if their forum was at all private is irrelevant. The admin of that site should have known darn right well that the site was completely open to the public. That was rather irresponsible, in my opinion, if the users THOUGHT it was closed to the public. It is a simple matter to make a site open ONLY to registered members. Or any forum for that matter.

As for this being strictly a personal decision, no it was not at all. Not at the beginning, anyway. My original move to ban those people was to simply STOP them from the possibility of any damage that such obviously disgruntled members here could potentially inflict on this site. I recently had a case of a member who was removed as moderator who in spite went and edited out most of his posts in his forum. When I was reading that thread on the other site and seeing the open hostility displayed, I simply could not rule out the possibility of that happening again from those people. Sure I would like to think that was a ridiculous thought, but I've been caught flat footed by people before. Rather then take the chance, the quickest way for me to stop that COLD was to ban them. Yes, there were better ways, but not FASTER ways. My original goal was to try to prevent DAMAGE to this site that was certainly a credible possibility.

So yes, that was a snap decision at 2a.m. in the morning when I was reading that thread. After sleeping on it and thinking further, THAT's when I became angry. At first I was just hurt and confused about it. But I got over that part of it eventually and put it more into proper perspective.

Sorry, but I just don't like backstabbers. If the leopard gecko community at large finds that they are willing to overlook such personality characteristics as are displayed in that thread in order to get what they want from such individuals, then by all means do so. I do not have the ability, nor the desire, to stop them.

 

[jglass38]

Rich,
I'm a chic, so bub doesn't really apply, but anyways,
I just hate seeing fauna pulled apart like this over emotions and hurt feelings that is all. I can understand why, but is that to fauna's benefit or not?
bobby, I'm glad to see your halo is not tarnished in anyway. And where did they LIE about anything? They vented to a group of friend's over some things and got caught. They did not create false accusations and lie about it.

You are right, I do back them, and I back fauna, and every other reptile site I belong to. I'm sure they do have room for one more and guess what, I joined there too, simply to be able to further what I know about reptiles, not get into petty bickering with perfect, flawless saints. It must be so hard maintaining such perfectness and righteousness.

Rich you say "There is nothing that you have that I need" in reference to banning those who say nasty things...YOU may not need them, but I think the reptile community does need the experience and knowledge of some of the best. You are making decisions based on YOUR needs, YOUR feelings, YOUR site. But shouldn't it be for the best of the site, the best of it's supporter's and users?

And if I vent to my best friend about my Boss, or about a family member, does that make me a horrible business person? A horrible employee? A horrible relative? If I don't like my boss but smile to his face to create a better work place and just grin and bear it but vent to my friends, is that wrong? We all deal with inter personal relationships differently. Ideally, we should be able to confront others, but it just doesn't happen.

Bottom line, Fauna never suffered because of these differences. These differences never were brought up here because everyone worked together for the benefit of the community. I would never have known anything was wrong until Fauna brought this here and turned it into an issue. Things were said between a group of friends that were though t to be private. Doesn't make it right. But it doesn't make it a huge issue to blow out of proportion and ban people and cause the general reptile community to lose out on some great knowledge and experience. It doesn't make someone saying someone else is annoying or a kiss butt into a bad business person....This is way out of proportion. It is just very unfortunate.

Great points but don't expect it to get you much here. Rational thought went out the window long ago.

 

[ShannanD25]

Again, Bobby, your gleaming halo is amazing.

I agree with the recent posts. If there was a HUGE conspiracy going on, then it is best there are two forums. I'll happily remain a member of both and ask questions and go where I think the best info is. I don't care about which mod likes who. I care about where I can find the best info and have the most pleasant interactions. But bottom line, where are the TOP Leo breeders right now, and why? It is just ashame it had to split like this. Many people could have remained members of both sites and gained from both. But FAUNA's actions have pushed many people into choosing, like an elementary school game of dodge ball...this person goes to this team and this person goes here...
I hope that both forum's prosper and that I can gain knowledge from both. Because that is what these forums are for...the reptile community.

 

[WebSlave]

As well, anyone who has been reading the TSE thread has seen the offensive way you referred to the Hayden Fund auctions. It was rude and uncalled for, and now you are finding out just how hurtful it was. Others, I'm sure, have kept silent for fear of the same consequences you have now exacted upon Kelli and others: instant banning, for expressing an honest opinion which was not even posted on this site. And speaking of TSE, don't you think that kind of behaviour reminds you of someone else?

I hardly see any conspiracy here; you brutally offend one of the top Leo breeders here, in one of the most personal ways possible,

I assume you are referring to my "fiasco" comment. That has already been addressed in this thread, I believe. That comment was in reference to the head butting between Chris Johnson and myself over a private conversation that he attempted to blow up into a public firestorm. THAT is the "fiasco" part, and nothing else, in my comment. And just as Chris Johnson did at that time, apparently some people wish to blow the "fiasco" statement all out of context.

 

[varnyard]

Again, Bobby, your gleaming halo is amazing.

I agree with the recent posts. If there was a HUGE conspiracy going on, then it is best there are two forums. I'll happily remain a member of both and ask questions and go where I think the best info is. I don't care about which mod likes who. I care about where I can find the best info and have the most pleasant interactions. But bottom line, where are the TOP Leo breeders right now, and why? It is just ashame it had to split like this. Many people could have remained members of both sites and gained from both. But FAUNA's actions have pushed many people into choosing, like an elementary school game of dodge ball...this person goes to this team and this person goes here...
I hope that both forum's prosper and that I can gain knowledge from both. Because that is what these forums are for...the reptile community.

Please, do not put me on the stand here. This is not about me. It is about Kelli and her group.

As for two forums being in place, that would be just fine. But, It did not happen like that. These FRIENDS/MODERATORS took it and blasted this site and members. So please, do not make it into something it's not.

 

[norsmis]

Great points but don't expect it to get you much here. Rational thought went out the window long ago.

When did that happen? My next question would be why do you frequent this website if you believe the members here to be irrational?

 

[jglass38]

When did that happen? My next question would be why do you frequent this website if you believe the members here to be irrational?

I wouldn't say I frequent the site. I check out the BOI now and then because it still has some relevance. I don't believe all the members to be irrational but there are a select few (some mods and some not) that are most definitely drinking the Kool-aid. I don't know if "for the good of the hobby" was ever part of the mission statement here, but if it was, it is fast being replaced with "for the good of the agenda". Its sad what has happened to the site and the loss of some great members in the past and the latest round of ego driven bannings which suck even more of the life and expertise out of the site. But that's just my .02, take it as you will.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Without mentioning names, and to use some journalistic license in grouping people, this is addressed to those of you who see this as nothing more than the right to voice opinions, even if viewed as critical and in a few cases unprofessional, or that "rational thought" has been abandoned here. Some of us view this as a simple matter of loyalty. In business, many of us value loyalty amongst our employees. When we see it lacking in a certain employee, we suspect it may manifest itself in other ways as well, particularly if that employee has been extended any responsibilities. At that point, the employee who was by definition "part of the solution" (because we paid them or entrusted them with responsibilities) is now "part of the problem", and we hope that the door does not hit them in their behind as they exit. This is Business 101.

 

[WebSlave]

I wouldn't say I frequent the site. I check out the BOI now and then because it still has some relevance. I don't believe all the members to be irrational but there are a select few (some mods and some not) that are most definitely drinking the Kool-aid. I don't know if "for the good of the hobby" was ever part of the mission statement here, but if it was, it is fast being replaced with "for the good of the agenda". Its sad what has happened to the site and the loss of some great members in the past and the latest round of ego driven bannings which suck even more of the life and expertise out of the site. But that's just my .02, take it as you will.

And what, pray tell, is the "agenda" here?

 

[norsmis]

Without mentioning names, and to use some journalistic license in grouping people, this is addressed to those of you who see this as nothing more than the right to voice opinions, even if viewed as critical and in a few cases unprofessional, or that "rational thought" has been abandoned here. Some of us view this as a simple matter of loyalty. In business, many of us value loyalty amongst our employees. When we see it lacking in a certain employee, we suspect it may manifest itself in other ways as well, particularly if that employee has been extended any responsibilities. At that point, the employee who was by definition "part of the solution" (because we paid them or entrusted them with responsibilities) is now "part of the problem", and we hope that the door does not hit them in their behind as they exit. This is Business 101.

Thanks for putting that more eloquently than I could have Jim. It seems loyalty and a hand shake to seal a deal are dying things nowadays....... Asking someone to be a true friend and not stab you in the back is even more of a task for some people.