KelliH and others Banned? Why?

[jglass38]

And what, pray tell, is the "agenda" here?

All I will say, is it isn't the good of the community as a whole.

 

[varnyard]

Thanks for putting that more eloquently than I could have Jim. It seems loyalty and a hand shake to seal a deal are dying things nowadays....... Asking someone to be a true friend and not stab you in the back is even more of a task for some people.

I agree with you, as well as Jim. Rereading some of these posts, seems like some think it is just fine to back stab. And the old saying: forgive and forget.
I just wonder if they were the ones getting the hole reamed in their backs if they would be so forgiving, I think not.

Looks to me like it is time to draw the line in the sand. If you feel like Kelli, and friends were so great in their actions, then by all means, the door is open. I just wonder, reading the threads there how long that will last. I do have some advice, If I were one of the ones that decide to run there, I would not be so fast to burn that bridge that leads back here. Fauna is not going anywhere.

Also, there are a few here that try to make out like Fauna is comming to a end because of that one forum. Well, that is one very small part of this great site. It is not the whole site.

 

[WebSlave]

All I will say, is it isn't the good of the community as a whole.

So do you have a crystal ball source for this insider info you have or did you just think of this all on your own? Why don't you share this "big conspiracy" with everyone here? I'm sure everyone would like to know your theory. I know I'm really curious to know how you came to that conclusion.

 

[Dr Owens]

Please put aside the emotions for a moment, and consider things objectively...

I assume you are referring to my "fiasco" comment. That has already been addressed in this thread, I believe. That comment was in reference to the head butting between Chris Johnson and myself over a private conversation that he attempted to blow up into a public firestorm. THAT is the "fiasco" part, and nothing else, in my comment. And just as Chris Johnson did at that time, apparently some people wish to blow the "fiasco" statement all out of context.

Rich,
I spoke with Kelli at length last night, and it quite frankly it was the "fiasco comment" that started all of this. To make a long story short, she thought that you were referring to the Hayden auction as a fiasco...and it hurt her deeply (as the comment was taken out of context, i.e. misunderstood). I think that it's important to remember that Kelli has endured a hell over the past year that I wouldn't wish on any parent. IMO it's easy to understand how she could react emotionally to a perceived slight of an effort that was in memoriam of her son.

You and I both know that a certain amount of Chris' efforts were self "inflating," and Chris has certainly displayed his real character over the past several months. The important thing for everyone to recognize here is that the "fiasco" was between you and Chris...NOT between you and the efforts by many members of the reptile community to help Kelli and her family during their time of need. I know that you will agree with me that the efforts that people made to help Kelli and her family were NOT a fiasco.

In talking with Kelli, and explaining a little bit of the back story, and where you were coming from with your comment, she admitted that she had reacted emotionally to what you had said based on a misunderstanding of your intentions. Quite frankly, she was mad at you for things that you never really said (or meant to say)...she was hurt. I pointed out to Kelli that the main info that she had based her assumptions on was the info that Chris gave her when he called her almost a year ago and told her how you were trying to shut down the efforts of people trying to help her and her family. I also pointed out that I didn't believe for a second that what Chris told her wasn't extremely biased, and that Chris had every intention of painting you in a bad light to Kelli. So...here's poor Kelli, who has just suffered the most horrific loss that she could ever imagine, and Chris bombards her with this garbage. Do you think that she even had the capacity to objectively consider what Chris was telling her? No way...no one could have. She reacted emotionally, and was hurt and angry...just like any of us would have been. However, after everything was said and done, she chose to put those hurts aside and just "move on." She had already been through enough, and the last thing she needed was more drama, strife, or hurt in her life. However, it would have been impossible for her to forget it.

Now...fast forward almost a year, and you made the "fiasco" comment. Given the history, and the feelings that she had tried to put aside, it starts to become more clear as to why/how she could have taken what you said out of context. She was hurt, she was angry, she was in pain...a pain that few people could ever truly empathize with. Then, in what she thought was a private conversation, that pain came out...and you ended up being hurt by it.

As Kelli and I discussed everything, she made a very astute comment. She said that if Chris had truly been concerned for her well being, then he never would have made that call and told her the things that he did. Chris did what he did in an effort to hurt you, and in so doing he didn't just hurt you...he hurt Kelli. Chris only cared about making himself look good. Ultimately, Chris' action hurt you, Kelli, Fauna, Kelli's new forum, and the members of both.

Rich, Kelli does not hate you...she was hurt by you. There's a big difference. There is little doubt in my mind that if the two of you would just sit down and talk that you would realize that all of this drama is completely unnecessary. She doesn't want this, and I don't believe for a second that you do either...and neither one of you should fall prey to the people on both sides who are attempting to be self serving by trying to perpetuate the drama between the two or you.

Additionally, I know that Marcia regrets ever making the initial post as she has said so multiple times on the other forum. She is certainly not a hateful person. Rather she had a momentary lapse of judgment in which she vented her feelings of frustration in what she thought was a private conversation. Marcia regrets this, Kelli regrets this, and I am certain that you regret it. You are all three very intelligent, thoughtful people, and I hate to see your friendships torn apart by people who have nothing better to do than jump on board and fan the flames of the latest internet drama. None of this strife is necessary...how about picking up the phone? I know that Kelli would like to talk with you, and work this garbage out...she told me so.

 

[jglass38]

So do you have a crystal ball source for this insider info you have or did you just think of this all on your own? Why don't you share this "big conspiracy" with everyone here? I'm sure everyone would like to know your theory. I know I'm really curious to know how you came to that conclusion.

Rich,

I have no crystal ball source, nor do I have insider info. I just have my own eyes and what I see happening. I see you banning longtime contributing members to the detriment of the site and the community as a whole. I see mods with egos running roughshod over people and while committing the same offenses themselves. Obviously I have to tread lightly in what I say for fear of being banned as well so I will leave it at that.

 

[The NY Gecko]

Shockingly enough I tried the polite and respectful route here. I was willing to be neutral and participate on both boards so I could learn and interact with what was 2 and now seemingly 2 communities. I tried to inform fauna god of my intentions so I wouldnt get some more warning points out of nowhere and basically got that condescending BS. It seems to me, Rich, that it is in fact you the one trying to hurt their board, not the other way around. By people choosing to go there they can now automatically be labeled as what by you? Ignorant? Foolish? Hell lets take a walk on the wild side, "Human Slime"? It seems youd rather keep everyone here that you can through fear just to make your board look better as opposed to theirs. I'm going to post there. Thats the bottom line. You can lose sleep over it, cry to the loose wheel for comfort, it doesn't matter. I didn't think you were that bad. I was like "Why does everyone have a problem with this Rich guy? He doesn't seem that bad. Hes just trying to run a tight ship and keep the boards clean of filth and vultures." Then this whole fiasco rears its ugly head. And I had the same mentality. "Well he was within his rights" and you were, I haven't changed my mind on that. But now that I read through all of these it seems to me that whoever doesn't agree with you down to the atom is instantly an enemy. Most people can agree to disagree, and usually be calm about it, but the "tone" of your posts is downright nasty. For awhile I behaved on here, but now I have somewhere else to go where I can recieve the same treatment or better from the same people. Bascially what I'm saying Rich, is take these boards, your attitude and shove it up that big arrogant ass of yours.

Well I have to admit that this PM is one of the more depressing ones I have gotten in this entire fiasco. Thanks for proving to me that ethics does not matter in this business. As long as people can get what they want out of someone, that is all that matters, and character does not matter one whit.

I am sorry that you prefer the company of people like that, but honestly, I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

Enjoy....

Because a majority of the leo gods are there now, I'm going to participate, but I'll assure you no negativity about fauna will come from my keyboard. I'm going to stay here as well, i try and love everyone that i can.

Yeah, believe me I am biting my tongue over the things I would LIKE to be saying about that crap. But still, it's the way it has to be.

Yes, I got your message. Several people have asked about the vacancies. For obvious reasons, I am not doing anything about it at the moment.

Thanks.

I'm sorry Rich, I'm as bothered as you by the posters on there, I was also one of the favorites. Did you get my pm about the leo mod position?

 

[Cat_72]

As for this being strictly a personal decision, no it was not at all. Not at the beginning, anyway. My original move to ban those people was to simply STOP them from the possibility of any damage that such obviously disgruntled members here could potentially inflict on this site. I recently had a case of a member who was removed as moderator who in spite went and edited out most of his posts in his forum. When I was reading that thread on the other site and seeing the open hostility displayed, I simply could not rule out the possibility of that happening again from those people.

It's kind of funny how the story is different when looking at it from the other side. That "person" too felt very hurt by things that you said to him about difficulties he had with another "moderator", and decided it would be best to remove the posts, including the ones that I believe started the issues between the 2 of you, and relocate them elsewhere, in more "proper" settings. But his access to those tools was removed, he couldn't repair the posts, and he felt as if you were leaving his forum up just to spite him. He was HURT.

I was going to stay out of this thread entirely, but I can't stand by and see all of the blame laid on everyone else.... aka "those people"....

I can't say I feel everything said over there was right, but for goodness sakes, if you step back and be human about it.....give it some thought.....ever think about trying to TALK to these folks and understand WHY they said the things they said? Maybe this whole giant conspiracy theory is a bit over the top? Everyone has differences, and often say things they don't really mean when they are hurt or angry. Most adults have learned to work out these differences......it may not be too late to try it.

 

[hill4803]

Well I wasn't going to post on this thread...so much for that. I am registered at the new site as well. Mostly because I value the information that is shared and the commradarie {sp?}. I too, have been disillusioned with how things have changed over the past year or so on this site. It seems to me that all is not well in faunaland when people are not free to disagree with how a forum is run or how points are given. I have had my share of points (and a suspension that quite frankly still pisses me off). Some of the points were deserved, while others...maybe not so much. However, the part that angers me most is that the points are not given fairly/consistantly.

But as we have already established, this is "Rich's house" and anyone who wants to leave is welcomed to do so.

 

[WebSlave]

Sorry you have a problem with my PMs to you Tom, but that's just the way it is. I told you exactly what I thought about the situation. Period. If you find that arrogant, then so be it.

 

[norsmis]

Shockingly enough I tried the polite and respectful route here. I was willing to be neutral and participate on both boards so I could learn and interact with what was 2 and now seemingly 2 communities. I tried to inform fauna god of my intentions so I wouldnt get some more warning points out of nowhere and basically got that condescending BS. It seems to me, Rich, that it is in fact you the one trying to hurt their board, not the other way around. By people choosing to go there they can now automatically be labeled as what by you? Ignorant? Foolish? Hell lets take a walk on the wild side, "Human Slime"? It seems youd rather keep everyone here that you can through fear just to make your board look better as opposed to theirs. I'm going to post there. Thats the bottom line. You can lose sleep over it, cry to the loose wheel for comfort, it doesn't matter. I didn't think you were that bad. I was like "Why does everyone have a problem with this Rich guy? He doesn't seem that bad. Hes just trying to run a tight ship and keep the boards clean of filth and vultures." Then this whole fiasco rears its ugly head. And I had the same mentality. "Well he was within his rights" and you were, I haven't changed my mind on that. But now that I read through all of these it seems to me that whoever doesn't agree with you down to the atom is instantly an enemy. Most people can agree to disagree, and usually be calm about it, but the "tone" of your posts is downright nasty. For awhile I behaved on here, but now I have somewhere else to go where I can recieve the same treatment or better from the same people. Bascially what I'm saying Rich, is take these boards, your attitude and shove it up that big arrogant ass of yours.

Nice mouth. I am sure your parents are real proud of you Tom......

 

[jglass38]

Sorry you have a problem with my PMs to you Tom, but that's just the way it is. I told you exactly what I thought about the situation. Period. If you find that arrogant, then so be it.

And that about sums things up.

 

[bcfos]

Been thinking here and have come up with this which is sort of off topic for this thread but kind of isn't. You want to know why we get all these BS laws passed and pretty much don't have a fighting chance in any state house to garner support against such laws?? It is because of all of this BS trivial drama we become so caught up in.

After reading Jay's last post I can fully understand why Kelli felt hurt. All due to one self serving person who should have kept his trap shut.

As for those who question the good fauna can do.. Step up and do some good yourself. I want to see this whole community come together as one for once and prove it can provide the proper educated information I know it can to help educate people trying to ban our animals. Is that so frickin' hard to do?? Who gives a rats ass what someone said about someone else if focusing on that allows other herpers to have to move or give up animals to remain legal in their area. This is not an "about me" thing it should be about "us". My honest suggestion is if you can't over look trivial drama you should leave the community quietly as you are not going to actually do jack to help it out.

Sorry to go off topic like this but I was feeling this needs to be said and thankfully it was here or else I would have used a lot more colorful language which would not hide my frustration at the community as a whole.

 

[WebSlave]

Yeah, maybe I should just rename this thread as "Anyone who has ever gotten warning points and still pissed off about it, or has any other gripes to air, just jump right in and vent"...

Well I wasn't going to post on this thread...so much for that. I am registered at the new site as well. Mostly because I value the information that is shared and the commradarie {sp?}. I too, have been disillusioned with how things have changed over the past year or so on this site. It seems to me that all is not well in faunaland when people are not free to disagree with how a forum is run or how points are given. I have had my share of points (and a suspension that quite frankly still pisses me off). Some of the points were deserved, while others...maybe not so much. However, the part that angers me most is that the points are not given fairly/consistantly.

But as we have already established, this is "Rich's house" and anyone who wants to leave is welcomed to do so.

I've been over this MANY times why sometimes people who deserve points don't get them, but it apparently hasn't been seen by everyone, or else just doesn't sink in. It is NOT bias, it's the inability to be everywhere and read everything. Most posts I read are REPORTED, and I do not in any way read all posts and threads on this site. Not only can I NOT do that, I really have no DESIRE to do so. And I am just NOT going to. Period.


Oh, and Jay, thanks for talking with Kelli. Honestly I thought for certain I had explained all this to her before, but perhaps she just refused to take my own word for it. I dunno, maybe I will call her, but damn, the wounds are still bleeding.....

 

[hill4803]

You must be kidding.

 

[Ken Harbart]

And that about sums things up.

Ironic, Jamie that you comment on the reasoning here while using pseudoreasoning yourself, don't you think?

 

[WebSlave]

You must be kidding.

About which part? Sorry, I failed that Psychic class I took in college. The professor failed me on the first day before I even took my seat in class.....

 

[jglass38]

Ironic, Jamie that you comment on the reasoning here while using pseudoreasoning yourself, don't you think?

Pseudoreasoning eh Ken? I don't think I was doing that at all. I was very clear in my previous post about what my issues are.

 

[WebSlave]

Oh yeah, Ro, I just noticed that Jamie is violating the rule on signature areas. Sorry, I'll take care of that right now....... Is THAT what you meant?

 

[DThomas]

I've been over this MANY times why sometimes people who deserve points don't get them, but it apparently hasn't been seen by everyone, or else just doesn't sink in. It is NOT bias, it's the inability to be everywhere and read everything. Most posts I read are REPORTED, and I do not in any way read all posts and threads on this site. Not only can I NOT do that, I really have no DESIRE to do so. And I am just NOT going to. Period.

This also applies to me.

For the love of god people, instead of throwing tantrums about the points you got and someone else didn't, report the dang posts you think crossed the line! 99% of warning points I hand out are due to reported posts. If you want to be juvenile about it, go ahead. Someone tattled on you, tattle back! I will NOT read every single post that is made on this site just to check for rule breakers.

 

[jglass38]

Oh yeah, Ro, I just noticed that Jamie is violating the rule on signature areas. Sorry, I'll take care of that right now....... Is THAT what you meant?

Rich,

Are you 55 or 15? Warnings for signature violations? haha...What rule am I violating?