Info Kelly Gottberg/KY Reptiles... I'd like your opinion?

[Amelanistic Orca]

I know Tom wasn't being deceptive =) and he knows I wasn't thinking that hehe. I was just reminding him that for something like that to be posted by the rules in the BOI, he would need to give us your real name, not just a nickname. Thank you much for popping in and letting us know that information!

Willow, you rock! I knew that, but as soon as I saw your post, I'm like, 'ohhhhhh no', I am at the fenceline with points right now, and was for sure I was banned upon returning here.. Whew!

for Willow...Tom was not being deceptive...that was the exact post (unredacted and unedited) that I sent him this evening after looking at the pictures in his post. Now, I havene't read the entire post and I'm not going to, the inevitable drama is not germane to the pictures that he posted of the snake and would have possilbly biased my observations. For the record, my name is attached to this post.

For everyone else, I have never met Tom, have never had any phone conversations with Tom but have exchanged about 2 or 3 PM's over the last year or two. That said, after reading countless numbers of his posts here on Fauna, I do consider him to be a person of considerable integrity and loyalty....has he always been right, no.....but when he's proven wrong he is the first to admit it and apologize for it. Doc

Mr. Westin! I am not sure how I can repay you sir, but, I owe you, not one, but two now! Thank you a thousand times!

Now, since I/we have got a Pro in here.... Mr. Westin, would YOU say that this injury was/could have been caused by a 'rough' force-feeding? I'm curious.... If, you say yes Mr. Westin, you would not be the first, nor second, I'm just curious on your professional opinion, since I value it, and I hope the board here does too...

If you don't want to answer that, I understand, and I apologize. Regardless, thank you again for your assistance here, I think it was valuable and spot on. And may have prevented my "banning."

 

[Brandy Pecanic]

Where's Kelly now?

We're so tired of seeing Samantha post for you!

Be the "Professional" you said you were!

 

[FireStorm]

Willow, you rock! I knew that, but as soon as I saw your post, I'm like, 'ohhhhhh no', I am at the fenceline with points right now, and was for sure I was banned upon returning here.. Whew!



Mr. Westin! I am not sure how I can repay you sir, but, I owe you, not one, but two now! Thank you a thousand times!

Now, since I/we have got a Pro in here.... Mr. Westin, would YOU say that this injury was/could have been caused by a 'rough' force-feeding? I'm curious.... If, you say yes Mr. Westin, you would not be the first, nor second, I'm just curious on your professional opinion, since I value it, and I hope the board here does too...

If you don't want to answer that, I understand, and I apologize. Regardless, thank you again for your assistance here, I think it was valuable and spot on. And may have prevented my "banning."

In my (non vet) opinion, it would be almost impossible to blame the injury on a force feeding. I can think of a few other scenarios that could cause something like that, so unless someone notice the original injury when it happened no one could say for sure.

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

In my (non vet) opinion, it would be almost impossible to blame the injury on a force feeding. I can think of a few other scenarios that could cause something like that, so unless someone notice the original injury when it happened no one could say for sure.

I'd be willing to run the options with ya if you didn't mind.. I mean, let's see, what does a USCBB Baby Ball Python come across in IT'S life in a tub. I think it's easy to narrow it down once you look at the options. It is not a WC bush baby, we are right in that, even though it looks rough enough to be one in my photos, Christian bred it here in Az and it doesn't come across too awfully much to make these wounds? So, I'll start:

1) Rodent caused?
2) Another snake/reptile caused?
3) Head slammed in tub?
4) Dropped on ground/stepped on?
5) *Force-fed too rough?
6) It just happened that way/born with it? (I don't think so. fwiw)
7) Tom did it, yeah right, but ok? Its up for the fans!
8) ???? (Help me out, I'm at work slammed and running out of options that could have happened to a small BP in a tub in 13 months.)

My main concern now is the weight issue? What does everybody else have their 13 month old's at, Female's and Male's are welcome, they grow about the same to me in the first 13 months.

Harald pointed it out, so, I'm going to answer the question, honestly, and I DO NOT powerfeed.. We do weekly rodent introductions, half the time, most snakes skip a week or two at a time..

I have 20 young females that I am looking at in my head in my 'snake room'.... All are over one year old, and up to 1 3/4 yrs old... They range from 600 grams on a couple of mousers, all the way to 1700 grams on some of my favs. Take what you wish... Juss sayin' at this point... I'd love more insight..

 

[AbsoluteApril]

His names in it! DOC!

well no, actually his name is Todd Westin. Luckily he came on here to take ownership of the statement.


Maybe I am missing something but I don't understand the issue with the weight? I have a baby BP over a year old that is around that same weight. She was super picky, only ate twice in about 6 months and then would only eat small prety (like mouse hopper size). Now she's finally taking small rat pups and is starting to fill out but honestly she looks the same size as the 2012 babies I have, however, she is far from unhealthy.

 

[FireStorm]

I'd be willing to run the options with ya if you didn't mind.. I mean, let's see, what does a USCBB Baby Ball Python come across in IT'S life in a tub. I think it's easy to narrow it down once you look at the options. It is not a WC bush baby, we are right in that, even though it looks rough enough to be one in my photos, Christian bred it here in Az and it doesn't come across too awfully much to make these wounds? So, I'll start:

1) Rodent caused?
2) Another snake/reptile caused?
3) Head slammed in tub?
4) Dropped on ground/stepped on?
5) *Force-fed too rough?
6) It just happened that way/born with it? (I don't think so. fwiw)
7) Tom did it, yeah right, but ok? Its up for the fans!
8) ???? (Help me out, I'm at work slammed and running out of options that could have happened to a small BP in a tub in 13 months.)

My main concern now is the weight issue? What does everybody else have their 13 month old's at, Female's and Male's are welcome, they grow about the same to me in the first 13 months.

Harald pointed it out, so, I'm going to answer the question, honestly, and I DO NOT powerfeed.. We do weekly rodent introductions, half the time, most snakes skip a week or two at a time..

I have 20 young females that I am looking at in my head in my 'snake room'.... All are over one year old, and up to 1 3/4 yrs old... They range from 600 grams on a couple of mousers, all the way to 1700 grams on some of my favs. Take what you wish... Juss sayin' at this point... I'd love more insight..

It seems to me that pretty much any time the snake bites/strikes at anything it has the potential to damage teeth. When I fed F/T, I had a few snakes hit the tongs instead of the rodent. I'm sure that can do damage to teeth. I have never had it happen to me, but I have heard of/seen cases where a snake bit someone and broke teeth because the person jerked back. Every now and then one of mine (one of my carpets is particularly bad) will strike at the side of the tub when I walk by or reach to open the tub.I guess even grabbing a rodent wrong could do it. The link was pretty interesting that Shadera posted...it didn't sound like that snake had been force fed.

And maybe (this is pure speculation on my part) the snake was a picky eater because it had an abscess or infection, and now that it has drained it is eating better. It seems like an abscess would be easy to miss...the snake isn't gonna say "hey, my tooth hurts" and bps can be picky anyway so the fact that the snake was being picky could be overlooked.

 

[FireStorm]

As for the weight question, I have 2011s ranging from 350g (for some late babies) on up to around 800g. I also have one 2011 baby that sounds similar to the one April described. She was really a pain for months, and is finally eating well. If I didn't tell you, she could pass as a 2012 hatchling.

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

well no, actually his name is Todd Westin. Luckily he came on here to take ownership of the statement.

Maybe I am missing something but I don't understand the issue with the weight? I have a baby BP over a year old that is around that same weight. She was super picky, only ate twice in about 6 months and then would only eat small prety (like mouse hopper size). Now she's finally taking small rat pups and is starting to fill out but honestly she looks the same size as the 2012 babies I have, however, she is far from unhealthy.

Yeah, I knew you were waiting April! Scary stuff in bold... Good luck with that. Doesn't sound real right to me, but hey, been wrong myself. At least now, you know you can take what I say to your local Bank. lol.

It seems to me that pretty much any time the snake bites/strikes at anything it has the potential to damage teeth. When I fed F/T, I had a few snakes hit the tongs instead of the rodent. I'm sure that can do damage to teeth. I have never had it happen to me, but I have heard of/seen cases where a snake bit someone and broke teeth because the person jerked back. Every now and then one of mine (one of my carpets is particularly bad) will strike at the side of the tub when I walk by or reach to open the tub.I guess even grabbing a rodent wrong could do it. The link was pretty interesting that Shadera posted...it didn't sound like that snake had been force fed.

And maybe (this is pure speculation on my part) the snake was a picky eater because it had an abscess or infection, and now that it has drained it is eating better. It seems like an abscess would be easy to miss...the snake isn't gonna say "hey, my tooth hurts" and bps can be picky anyway so the fact that the snake was being picky could be overlooked.

I appreciate that.. That was another option. Thanks!

 

[A&S Reptiles]

Kelly, please tell me her birth date? Tom, and quite a few others, routinely get their females to 900-1200 grams in a fiscal year. Does anybody else agree?

Harald pointed it out, so, I'm going to answer the question, honestly, and I DO NOT powerfeed.. We do weekly rodent introductions, half the time, most snakes skip a week or two at a time..

I have 20 young females that I am looking at in my head in my 'snake room'.... All are over one year old, and up to 1 3/4 yrs old... They range from 600 grams on a couple of mousers, all the way to 1700 grams on some of my favs. Take what you wish... Juss sayin' at this point... I'd love more insight..

(From my badguy thread, post #36)

Yes, we have about 20 BP's that eat once a month, but guess what, if you try a different type of rodent, they slam that! Try it sometime.

So let me get this straight, Brandy feeds once a month. Tom feeds every week, but they miss a meal every other, so twice a month. Ok, close enough. But they get to atleast 900 grams in a fiscal year? If they ate twice a month, how do they get that big?? You would have to be feeding pretty big meals. But in the first post of this thread Tom quotes:

She was also in a shed when I got her, BUT, she was stuffed with a "good/borderline too big" sized rodent for her sizing, just MHO.

So he claims she feeds too big (we feed just the same, about the size of the thickest they are) and yet my females (that I feed once a week, twice or quadruple what he claims) are right about 900 grams. So if his claims are correct, hes gotta be feeding huge rats to make up the weight they miss only eating twice or once a week, correct??

Again, if this is all true (the once or twice a month), how do we know YOU didn't cause those holes feeding too big??

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

(From my badguy thread, post #36)



So let me get this straight, Brandy feeds once a month. Tom feeds every week, but they miss a meal every other, so twice a month. Ok, close enough. But they get to atleast 900 grams in a fiscal year? If they ate twice a month, how do they get that big?? You would have to be feeding pretty big meals. But in the first post of this thread Tom quotes:



So he claims she feeds too big (we feed just the same, about the size of the thickest they are) and yet my females (that I feed once a week, twice or quadruple what he claims) are right about 900 grams. So if his claims are correct, hes gotta be feeding huge rats to make up the weight they miss only eating twice or once a week, correct??

Again, if this is all true (the once or twice a month), how do we know YOU didn't cause those holes feeding too big??

On average Samantha? She is averaging out about 50 something snakes Samantha? You are hilarious! Are you still reaching for something? I welcome you on a tour of my stuff any day of the week, you wanna know why, then I would know that you know how to properly set up a Ball afterwards, whatta ya say, Brandy can show you around?

Where is Kelly? She can't come up with anything?

 

[A&S Reptiles]

On "average" that is 40% of your snakes eating once a month. Either way it doesn't add up. And considering how she talked to Kelly, then hastily deleted it, I want nothing to do with Brandy. What will she call me?

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

On "average" that is 40% of your snakes eating once a month. Either way it doesn't add up. And considering how she talked to Kelly, then hastily deleted it, I want nothing to do with Brandy. What will she call me?

Atta girl, reach deep, put me on trial too. My snakes, reputation/what's left of it thanks to you, and pictures of my animals speak for themselves? Are you seriously trying to go here? Look at your self first. Please. I can't participate with you like this anymore. I am sorry to all.

 

[Lucille]

I had no choice in posting that.

Unless someone was in your living room holding a gun to your head, you always have a choice of how to speak and what to say. I do understand it might be difficult to take that first step up to the high road after a conversation has fallen to a lower level.

I can't participate with you like this anymore

Thank you for taking that first step Tom.

 

[A&S Reptiles]

Well he posted the first half of that thread saying Kelly was low in what she said. But failed to post what his girlfriend said. I simply finished it. Tom is done talking because he can't clear up what I last said about the big meals. In 30+ days he could have easily caused those injuries on her mouth by feeding too large.

 

[RobNJ]

On "average" that is 40% of your snakes eating once a month. Either way it doesn't add up.

Adds up pretty well to me...between being off feed from breeding, being off feed from any other one of several things that ball pythons go off feed for, to slow starting hatchlings and other possibly picky feeders...sounds about right.

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

Well he posted the first half of that thread saying Kelly was low in what she said. But failed to post what his girlfriend said. I simply finished it. Tom is done talking because he can't clear up what I last said about the big meals. In 30+ days he could have easily caused those injuries on her mouth by feeding too large.

The injuries were noticed upon her shed, 3 DAYS INTO OWNERSHIP! I went to do a photo shoot of my new snake.... And, that photo session is the first two pics in this thread! Please tell me this helps clear stuff up for you? I have no idea why I feel so implored to help you Sam?

 

[A&S Reptiles]

And it took you 30 days to post the thread after she offered an exchange and refund? Really?

 

[Fangthane]

I was putting neosporin on her back. Even if they were fully healed from the guy i got her from i was using that to keep the scars in good shape.

I never said those marks on her back were from Christian. I did state yes he was the breeder that produced her. She was in someone else's possession and it happened in her care

Just noticed this. Surely it's just a typo.

 

[Brandy Pecanic]

Samantha, you only have the text messages to Kelly, from Tom, on 7/12/2012, there IS more. Approximately 30+ days before that, and this thread, we had already let her know in a previous text message that has NOT been posted at all, that the snake had issues.. These are the ones that Kelly is lying about offering to do anything about the jacked up Granite..

We weren't impressed with her initial reply 3-4 days after purchasing and noticing these ailments during our first photo shoot with the Granite. So, we fixed her properly, and that is the text that Tom sent her in the end on the 12th.. It was him washing his hands of her and letting her know that she should have gotten a BOI 'Bad Guy' thread for a sub-par, pawn-off type animal. And I think he should have done that right away.. That's confusing, I know, so here we go again..

So it's clear to you sweetheart.. We bought the snake.. 30 something days before the 12th of July, are you still with me, 3 days in, or 4 the Granite sheds, not sure if 3 or 5 days, but certainly less than a week, Kelly knows for sure because she has the text messages.. We really think it was just 3 short days.... Remember, Tom gets hundreds of text messages and emails everyday, he erases everything constantly so he doesn't lose his train of thought, and he rarely has dramatic issues like this....

Starting over again..... So, we buy the snake sometime in the middle of June..

Are you still with me, then, a FEW days later we notice the ailments in the pictures in our first post.... Are you still there, we send Kelly an overview right there, on the 3rd or 4th day, have you seen that convo, NONE OF IT HAS BEEN POSTED, we want that done... Okay, 30 days go by, and I send the message on the 12th... The one YOU posted.... ARE YOU STILL COMPREHENDING....... And now, we are dealing with your worthless, lying, dramatic, crybaby ! There is no way you are 19, you act and sound 13. Now, take care of your animals, and answer in your thread, Tom is waiting for you on there.

 

[Brandy Pecanic]

Just noticed this. Surely it's just a typo.

Hilarious find Dan! ROFL!