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Bad Guy Ken Foose - Exotic Pets

piedpipper

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I hesitate to put this as a bad guy thread because it was more of a middle of the road transaction.

I recently purchased a pair of Dominican Red Mountain Boas on kingsnake.com from Ken Foose in Las Vegas about 2.5 months ago. I do not think I will be purchasing from him again for several reasons.

1. The Boas he had pictured in the ad do not appear to be the same ones he sent me. He listed in the ad that they were ALL red but the ones I received were much more brown colored than I anticipated. Whether they will turn red over time I do not know. I just wish he had told me this or sent me pictures of the actual animals I would be receiving. Prior to buying, when I asked him for recent pictures he told me that the boas I would get were shown in the pictures on his ad. I do not think they were the same ones as you can see in the pictures. I suppose it's possible that they turned browner from the time he took the photos but even so that means that he did not have recent pictures on his ad which is still unacceptable in my opinion. Here are the pictures: the first and second one are his kingsnake.com pictures and the second and third one are the boas I received. He still has these same pictures on the ad for DRMB's that he has for sale right now. BUYERS BEWARE you will likely receive animals similar to mine.

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1555154_zpsrqm2dnbr.jpg
IMG_1373_zpsjej3mwy9.jpg
IMG_1495_zpsreqvztsg.jpg


2. He said in the ad (still says for a matter of fact) that the boas are feeding on hopper mice. When in fact they were MUCH too small for that and are in fact feeding on pinky mice. He even told me himself that they were eating pinkies while saying on the ad that they were eating hoppers. Hence I was ONCE AGAIN surprised when unboxing them because I was expecting snakes at least twice as big as the ones I received. I suppose this could be amounted to a typo on his ad but I'm not sure how you could mean pinky and write hopper.

3. In speaking with Ken, he told me these animals were born early last spring which would make them over a year old. Call me critical, but I do believe these snakes should have been a good bit bigger if they were a year old. So Ken was either incorrect about their age or underfeeding them. To give you an idea, the male was 16 grams when he arrived. With regular feeding in my care he has nearly doubled in size in less than 3 months. So I do think he was either wrong about their age or underfeeding them.

4. I hesitate to say this last part because I do not want to make blatant accusations without the proof but take it for what it is: a speculation. Several weeks after receiving these boas a mite infestation broke out with these boas and the snakes nearest to them in the rack. Now I didn't add any new snakes to my collection for several months so I don't see where else the mites could have possibly come from. I acknowledge that this is my fault for not checking the boas and quarantining them to begin with but I do not believe it is acceptable for ANY breeder to sell animals with mites. As I said, I didn't see mites on them when unboxing, but I also didn't look very carefully and I do not know where else the mites could have possibly came from. There is a good chance these snakes came in with mites.

Overall, there were several problems with the seller which all revolved around honesty. I do not believe he was being completely forthright with me when selling and I didn't receive what I expected. Perhaps Ken was not purposly being dishonest it may have just been carelessness in updating photos, writing descriptions, etc. but either way I do not think I will be buying from him again.

I do like the animals I got and will be taking excellent care of them. I'm just disappointed at the dishonesty in this transaction.

(Also, I know I didn't post this immediately after the transaction. I wasn't going to bother saying anything until the mite infestation was discovered which prompted me to write this).

Greg Pandelis
 
I recently purchased a Vietnamese Blue Beauty from Ken, the animal was honestly represented and Ken answered my numerous pre-purchase questions about the snake. Regarding the mites, they do the best they can, you have to be cognizant of the volume of animals they are dealing with as well as the volume of snake people customers who evidently walk into his place. This isn't a private breeder, yet my intent is not to makes excuses for them. I feel your pain but that is as much on you as anyone, and you suggested this yourself (isolation). I'd suggest Ivomec bath as a proactive mite solution upon receipt, I realize that this doesn't help you now.

I can't speak to your other experiences because my experience was different.
Best of luck.

Walt Deptula
 
I've heard those guys can change from red to brown depending on various factors, temps, stress, etc... plus he used flash or light in his photos to bring out the red hue. May be the very same animals, I personally cannot tell.
 
They may be the same animals, I agree. But even if they were, they were old pictures. I have taken many pictures of the snakes with flash as well just to double check and they are still not the same color. I am not trying to make this a complaint thread as I am fine with the animals I received. Just a bit disappointed, as Ken directed me to these photos when I asked for recent pictures. Leading me to believe that these WERE recent pictures.

lampropeltis - Thanks for the advice, I believe I have it under control now. I realize that what you are saying about mites is true - Ken has a large volume of new animals coming in from time to time which could be a source of mites. Maybe my expectations are just a little too high but I think any seller should be sure his new animals are mite free before entering them into the store. I know it is on me partly for not checking and treating prior to entry in my collection, it's just that in prior dealings with breeders I had come to understand that snake mites were unacceptable in a breeders collection. I suppose the same thing does not apply to pet stores even as large and reputable as Exotic Pets. My mistake.
 
When posting the thread I tried to leave it with no heading but it would not let me post without choosing one. Since I didn't feel that this was a "good guy" thread I chose the other option even though I did not intend for it to be as harsh as that. No I did not notify Ken, I was unaware that doing this was standard for the inquiry board.

I realize that if I had wanted anything done about the situation I should've contacted Ken when I first received the animals. But as I said, I was OK with the animals I received so I didn't want my money back or anything like that. I was simply a bit annoyed at the misrepresentation of the animals. I also wanted to say something because the same ad listing these animals as eating hoppers with the SAME old pictures is still on KS right now.
 
Did you contact Ken after receiving the animals, tell him your feelings, and allow him to make it right or to give an explanation, prior to starting this thread?
 
The first line in his second paragraph of that last post seems to tell us otherwise Lucille. You were OK with the animals and still thought it would be OK to make this a bad guy thread? Are you aware of what sort of impact the BOI makes on individuals, breeders and stores?
 
The first line in his second paragraph of that last post seems to tell us otherwise Lucille.
I really wanted him to respond and tell me that without giving the seller a chance to make it right, and saying he was OK with the animals, and saying that he neither quarantined nor looked closely at these snakes yet it putting the fault of mites on Ken.
Really, I'm not sure other sellers will want to deal with this buyer. One should always go to the seller first for and explanation or an opportunity to make something right.
 
This is a good example of why it is often a thankless job to sell live animals. Ken is a good guy and has been doing this forever. This does not even remotely qualify as a bad guy thread.
 
As a general rule regardless of who the seller might be, I believe the least you can do when unhappy about a transaction is to contact the seller and see if things can get worked out, prior to using the BOI and posting a bad guy thread without giving the seller a chance.
 
As I said in my first post the mites were simply a speculation. Forget I ever said anything about mites I suppose I was venting a little bit after the discovery and didn't realize what kind of an impact this would have. I can't think of any other explanations as to how they originated but I do not want to blame Ken without knowing for sure. I am sorry that I started out sounding that way. Mites aside however, the animals were misrepresented. Like, I said I suppose it was not a huge issue and I just wanted to make it known. I didn't realize how big of a deal it was to make a "bad guy" thread. Had I known I probably wouldn't have posted in the first place.

@Lucille, I realize I should have talked to Ken immediately after receiving the animals if I had wanted something done about the situations. BUT as I said I was OK with the animals, its just that it wasn't what I was expecting.

I'm sorry if this thread negatively affected Ken. I did not intend that I just wanted to share my experience and tell other buyers of his DMRB's (since the same ad is still up on KS) that they will likely receive animals similar to mine.

And I did realize there were other heading options (either question or info) of which neither qualified for what my post was about. I do believe my talk of mites was going overboard and I should not have mentioned that part at all. Again, this post has gone a little out of hand from what I originally intended.
 
And I do believe you are right Deborah. I should have voiced my surprise when first receiving the animals. We all make mistakes and I will be sure to do that next time. I hadn't planned on posting until my mite problem arose which I suppose caused me to want to "vent" a bit. I think we are all prone to that and as I said I did not intend to throw accusations around. I apologize for anyone that may have been harmed by this.
 
I really wanted him to respond and tell me that without giving the seller a chance to make it right, and saying he was OK with the animals, and saying that he neither quarantined nor looked closely at these snakes yet it putting the fault of mites on Ken.

Really, I'm not sure other sellers will want to deal with this buyer. One should always go to the seller first for and explanation or an opportunity to make something right.



I agree.

The OP didn't even give the seller a chance to explain or make him happy.

There are four choices:
Good Guy
Bad Guy
Inquiry
Info

You could have chosen info, instead you chose bad guy.

The only bad guy I see is you.


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Thats a little harsh. The OP doesnt seem to be a bad guy, just new and a little confused as to procedures. Way too soon to call him a bad guy IMO
 
And I do believe you are right Deborah. I should have voiced my surprise when first receiving the animals. We all make mistakes and I will be sure to do that next time. I hadn't planned on posting until my mite problem arose which I suppose caused me to want to "vent" a bit. I think we are all prone to that and as I said I did not intend to throw accusations around. I apologize for anyone that may have been harmed by this.


Whatever your intention, you did make accusations; all without contacting the seller. That alone would make me avoid doing business with you.

Apologizing is a good start, that reflects well on you. If I was you, I'd contact Ken, maybe send an apology by email.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I do like the animals I got and will be taking excellent care of them. I'm just disappointed at the dishonesty in this transaction.

Excellent care means quarantining your new stock. And to use the word dishonesty after you speculated about mites (two weeks later after you had not quarantined) and decided Ken should be at fault, is dishonest in itself.
I would not sell anything to you, you do not know how to behave.

I did not intend to throw accusations around.

You did throw accusations around and here, you are responsible for your words.
 
Thats a little harsh. The OP doesnt seem to be a bad guy, just new and a little confused as to procedures. Way too soon to call him a bad guy IMO



I disagree.

This was a clear info thread, because he wanted to share information, yet he chose bad guy.

He speculated about where the mites came from, even tho he didn't practice ANY quarantine.

He did NOT contact the seller AT ALL before posting here.

IMO, he is the bad guy here. Greenhorn or not, there are certain "rules" when conducting business.



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