Bad Guy Ken from ExoticPets in Las Vegas

[th3jok3r]

Ken seemed to be a great guy when i was going to purchase Het albinos from him he guarenteed the genetics and gave me a great price he mentions this deal he got and bought snakes for practicaly nothing because he could afford to sell me the het albino females weighing 1500-1800g's for 150 each well he says if i buy a bunch he will give me discounts and so on so i look through his list that he claims "nobody will buy anything i just got them in and im leaving town" i asked him to hold on to 2 het albinos for me i will purchase them no matter what he says ok he labels them as sold for me and says they will not leave i wrote him back an hour later with my mind made up of what snakes i wanted in the package deal he responds to me about 3 days later stating what i asked for has been sold already "even though he tells me i have first dibs" so i reply tell him ill just take the Het albino's he was holding for me sure enough he sellls them too on me IDK about you guys but someone who tells me they are holding something for me and labels it and such sells somehting i been looking forward to and excited to breed treats me like that it frustrates me I will never do business with this guy and wanted to warn a couple ppl out there

 

[Royal Morphz]

Jaime please post emails as proof to your statement. Ken has been a upstanding fixture in this hobby for as many years as you have been on Earth. I'm sure that if you have proof of your statements then Ken would gladly take care of you. I have been dealing with him for years, and evening with me being in town he has never held a animal for me without a deposit. Most sellers will not hold a animal without a non refundable deposit.

 

[Lucille]

I think there has been a 'holding' thread or two on the site, and many people agreed that ordinarily, critters have to be paid for and that they do not hold indefinitely for a customer who has not forked over any cash. If a vendor agrees to hold without money, unless there is a specific agreement, it seems to me that the hold would extend only until the customer could overnight payment or paypal or whatnot.
In the thread I'm thinking of (couldn't find it) vendors were saying how at conventions they would be asked to hold a critter only to have the buyer never come back, and pretty much many vendors said that a reasonable hold time in the industry is pretty short and most would not hold period without payment.
I'd like to hear Ken's side.

 

[Ken Foose]

Lucille, Tim Rainwater filed for bankruptcy and the court took almost everything he has, including his entire reptile collection. I bid on them with the court and ended up with 197 ball pythons. I need the money to pay the court, so I'm selling them off as fast as I can. Most are in pathetic shape, some have already died, and his yearlings are the size of fresh hatched babies. So I have to go through each and every snake and judge if it can be sold, or even saved. In the meantime I've posted some online to sell. Jamie contacted me and I told him I had plenty of het for albinos. He said he wanted a bunch in a package deal, which was fine with me. The last time he contacted me was on June 25, and then again today, when he expressed the wish to purchase 1.1 het for albinos. Well, I never had any males to begin with, and I had just sold the last two females this morning along with some others in a package deal. I sent an email telling him that regretfully I had sold all the females and there never was a male. Frankly, I could not turn down the chance to sell 9 snakes here and now instead of a hopefully he'll call and buy some snakes chance. In his post he said he would never do business with me, and I understand. However, after his post he emailed me and asked to buy an albino ball from me. I guess he decided I'm not TOO bad a guy, just a minor bad guy. In the meantime I'm still checking the status of these snakes, feeding them, mothering them, and hopefully selling them all as soon as they are fit. This is the peak of my breeding/laying/hatching season, and I have about 1,200 of my own snakes to care for, so I'm a bit slow getting the balls checked out and posted. I'm going as fast as I can. But I want to make sure that I don't sell something to someone that is not up to par. Rainwater sucks by the way, and should be ashamed that he let this fantastic collection go the way it has. But at least he's out of the business once and for all. I do feel sorry for all his investors though, as they got nothing out of this and lost all their money. Well, that's it. Jamie, sorry I was not able to save the snakes for you.

 

[Uroboros]

I agree with Lucille, without a deposit, not much can be expected to be held.

If Jaime can come up with an email from Ken that specifically says that he'd hold them without a deposit, Jaime has a complaint, but I don't think it makes Ken a bad guy IMO.

Ken is a pretty cool dude and I'd be surprised if he didn't offer a deal on some other available BPs.

Ken held a snake for me and I made payments for it. But I made a payment on the day that he agreed to hold it for me.

 

[th3jok3r]

ken i gave you my CC information and practically bought the het albino female then you told me about the package deal you got SO I ASKED YOU TO HOLD HER BECAUSE I WILL BUY HER NO MATTER WHAT (THATS WHY I CALLED IN THE FIRST PLACE WAS TO PURCHASE HER FROM YOU I DID NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT A PACKAGE DEAL OR BUNCH OF SNAKES YOU JUST RECIEVED) so you went to see what snakes you had that may have interested me in buying a bunch form you (package deal). You told me you would email me by the end of the day. You took a couple days to email me even though you told me that you would send me the list later that night. A couple days later when i recieved the list you sent me that was not even correct because at the bottom of the list it said most animals have been sold and anything with the word mojave, pinstripe, and lavender albino is gone.. MOst Het pieds gone.. (i cannot remeber what else was included in the list). I wrote you back regarding the citrus, het pieds, tequila, super pastel, and het albinos... you email me a couple days later tell me the list is wrong and there is no citrus pastels.. you didnt mention the other snakes i ask you about the other snakes and then you email me pics of the tequila and super pastel with a lump by her cloaca that you now have posted on kingsnake. I ASKED YOU ABOUT MY HET ALBINO THAT YOU LABELED AND SAID IS NOT GOING ANYWHERE AND YOU TELL ME YOU SOLD HER. I WONDER WHY AFTER ALL THIS YOU COULDNT CONTACT ME AND ASKED ME IF I WAS GOING TO PURCHASE HER LIKE I ORIGINALLY WANTED TO

 

[th3jok3r]

Here is an email on the 1st of july saying he has the het albinos still (not june 25th or whatever he said)


--- On Wed, 7/1/09, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:


From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Message about: One Male and Two Female Het for Ivory Baby Ball Pythons
To: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 8:31 PM


Hi. Sorry it took so long to get back to you. This ball python thing is a bit overwhelming. I have no citrus balls, they were never there. I have some Tequila balls, but they are nowhere near adults. The female is 936 grams, and I have a photo of her and a male. The Super Pastel I want $700 for. However, she appears to have an inflammation near the vent, but I'm working on that now. I could drop her to $600 if you wanted to treat it yourself. The het pied's are all 66% het, not 100% as the list implied. I still have the het albinos. Photos of the Super Pastel and the Tequila balls are below this. The Pastel is very pretty, much better then most I've seen, but she's also skinny, weighing in at 993 grams. She is eating well for me though. Please note the swollen area of the tail in the third photo of her.

Thanks, Ken
Exotic Pets LLC
2410 N. Decatur #160
Las Vegas NV 89108
(702) 631-7387
fx (702) 631-7367
www.Exoticpetslv.com

 

[Uroboros]

Here is an email on the 1st of july saying he has the het albinos still (not june 25th or whatever he said)


--- On Wed, 7/1/09, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:


From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Message about: One Male and Two Female Het for Ivory Baby Ball Pythons
To: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 8:31 PM


Hi. Sorry it took so long to get back to you. This ball python thing is a bit overwhelming. I have no citrus balls, they were never there. I have some Tequila balls, but they are nowhere near adults. The female is 936 grams, and I have a photo of her and a male. The Super Pastel I want $700 for. However, she appears to have an inflammation near the vent, but I'm working on that now. I could drop her to $600 if you wanted to treat it yourself. The het pied's are all 66% het, not 100% as the list implied. I still have the het albinos. Photos of the Super Pastel and the Tequila balls are below this. The Pastel is very pretty, much better then most I've seen, but she's also skinny, weighing in at 993 grams. She is eating well for me though. Please note the swollen area of the tail in the third photo of her.

Thanks, Ken
Exotic Pets LLC
2410 N. Decatur #160
Las Vegas NV 89108
(702) 631-7387
fx (702) 631-7367
www.Exoticpetslv.com

He said that you contacted him on June 25, not vice versa. And that email says nothing about holding any animals.

And, by the way, folk. Can we please use paragraph markers and punctuation? It's REALLY hard to read a whole paragraph that really should be four or five.

 

[Ken Foose]

Jamie, I sent you the list. 11 snakes on the inventory were not there. My problem. You complained about the prices. You never contacted me again until today. If you email me again, I will make you a very good deal on a female albino. Perhaps. Please, when you email me, don't write in one long sentence. It's hard to read. Be nice to me, I'm old. So, the email I sent you stating I would not reply to you, scrap that. I will reply to you if you'd like to talk to me in a civilized way. Otherwise don't, and we can end it here. I'm leaving work now to work at home, so I won't be responding to anything after this until tomorrow. Getting rid of a computer at home is the best thing I ever did!

 

[th3jok3r]

He said that you contacted him on June 25, not vice versa. And that email says nothing about holding any animals.

And, by the way, folk. Can we please use paragraph markers and punctuation? It's REALLY hard to read a whole paragraph that really should be four or five.

if you read that, i contacted him recently on the 1st of July. Not June 25th like he said. And here is his responce:

Re: Message about: One Male and Two Female Het for Ivory Baby Ball PythonsFriday, July 3, 2009 9:20 PM
From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>View contact detailsTo: [email protected]orry it took so long to get back to you. I've been overwhelmed with work, and the pythons make it more work lol. Anyway, I have sold all the female het for albinos. I never had any males. I do still have albinos, males and females, and the het for Ivory balls are also gone. I'll be posting more balls as fast as I can get them feeding and can photo and weigh them. This is the height of my breeding/laying/hatching season, and I have about 1,200 adult snakes to care for after work, so it just takes a bit of time to do the balls also. More time then I'd planned anyway.

Thanks, Ken
Exotic Pets LLC
2410 N. Decatur #160
Las Vegas NV 89108
(702) 631-7387
fx (702) 631-7367
www.Exoticpetslv.com



He told me a 2 days before this email he still has the female hets then he tells me they are sold my problem is he couldnt contact me and say Jaime I need the money are you going to buy her or not.

 

[Uroboros]

He told me a 2 days before this email he still has the female hets then he tells me they are sold my problem is he couldnt contact me and say Jaime I need the money are you going to buy her or not.

I still don't see where it says he'll hold them for you. There are tons of potential buyers that inquire about animals and never finalize it.

Sellers also cannot be expected to contact everyone that asks about available animals to see if they're still interested before they sell them to someone with cash in hand.

 

[Uroboros]

if you read that, i contacted him recently on the 1st of July. Not June 25th like he said. And here is his responce

So, he started the email that he wrote on the 1st of July with "Sorry it took so long to get back to you" in response to an email that you wrote earlier that day.

 

[Uroboros]

Here is an email on the 1st of july saying he has the het albinos still (not june 25th or whatever he said)


--- On Wed, 7/1/09, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:


From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Message about: One Male and Two Female Het for Ivory Baby Ball Pythons
To: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 8:31 PM


Hi. Sorry it took so long to get back to you. This ball python thing is a bit overwhelming. I have no citrus balls, they were never there. I have some Tequila balls, but they are nowhere near adults. The female is 936 grams, and I have a photo of her and a male. The Super Pastel I want $700 for. However, she appears to have an inflammation near the vent, but I'm working on that now. I could drop her to $600 if you wanted to treat it yourself. The het pied's are all 66% het, not 100% as the list implied. I still have the het albinos. Photos of the Super Pastel and the Tequila balls are below this. The Pastel is very pretty, much better then most I've seen, but she's also skinny, weighing in at 993 grams. She is eating well for me though. Please note the swollen area of the tail in the third photo of her.

Thanks, Ken
Exotic Pets LLC
2410 N. Decatur #160
Las Vegas NV 89108
(702) 631-7387
fx (702) 631-7367
www.Exoticpetslv.com

if you read that, i contacted him recently on the 1st of July. Not June 25th like he said. And here is his responce:

Re: Message about: One Male and Two Female Het for Ivory Baby Ball PythonsFriday, July 3, 2009 9:20 PM
From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>View contact detailsTo: [email protected]orry it took so long to get back to you. I've been overwhelmed with work, and the pythons make it more work lol. Anyway, I have sold all the female het for albinos. I never had any males. I do still have albinos, males and females, and the het for Ivory balls are also gone. I'll be posting more balls as fast as I can get them feeding and can photo and weigh them. This is the height of my breeding/laying/hatching season, and I have about 1,200 adult snakes to care for after work, so it just takes a bit of time to do the balls also. More time then I'd planned anyway.

Thanks, Ken
Exotic Pets LLC
2410 N. Decatur #160
Las Vegas NV 89108
(702) 631-7387
fx (702) 631-7367
www.Exoticpetslv.com



He told me a 2 days before this email he still has the female hets then he tells me they are sold my problem is he couldnt contact me and say Jaime I need the money are you going to buy her or not.

Which one of these posts is truthful?

Here are two emails that tehjoakar has posted, each with a different date but same email.

SO, Jaime, which of these two dates is correct?

 

[Uroboros]

I correct myself, those are two different emails.

DAMMIT

 

[th3jok3r]

So, he started the email that he wrote on the 1st of July with "Sorry it took so long to get back to you" in response to an email that you wrote earlier that day.

The part that he would hold it was over the phone, with my credit card information given to him. I called him in the first place to place my order like i said i had no idea about any package or any other snakes he had I called to buy the het albino female not to ask any questions then the whole "package" conversation sparked. Where he said he would hold her and labeled her for me.

 

[th3jok3r]

There was a misunderstanding on Ken's part, mistaking someone elses email for my own. Ken and I have discussed this via private email.

 

[Uroboros]

Ken gets to field this one.

It sounds to me like Jaime had intent to buy the het on the phone. The package deal came up and Jaime wanted to think about it. Ken said he would hold the het pending Jaime's decision. Ken then sold the het.

Sorry to regurgitate that (I hope I'm regurgitating it), but if I barf it out in simple terms, it's easier to see.

If the above is true, then perhaps Ken has a little explaining to do.

I hate deals over the phone for just these reasons.

 

[th3jok3r]

Ken gets to field this one.

It sounds to me like Jaime had intent to buy the het on the phone. The package deal came up and Jaime wanted to think about it. Ken said he would hold the het pending Jaime's decision. Ken then sold the het.

Sorry to regurgitate that (I hope I'm regurgitating it), but if I barf it out in simple terms, it's easier to see.

If the above is true, then perhaps Ken has a little explaining to do.

I hate deals over the phone for just these reasons.

thank you for finally understanding what i said hahaha

 

[Uroboros]

thank you for finally understanding what i said hahaha

Sorry for jumping the gun. My fingers type before my head thinks sometimes.

If it gets resolved, it would be nice to post here so that it can go full circle.

 

[th3jok3r]

here was my responce to Ken



Obviously there was a huge misunderstanding. I dont trust people and i gave you my credit card information. It was known that I was going to buy the het albino no matter what. I was waiting for the updated list and kept asking you about the list. "I even apologized for annoying you for the updated list." at this point there are no other snakes that I would be interested in but I thank you for apologizing for your mistake. It could happen to anybody.

Thank you
Jaime Pagan
PAGAN PYTHONS
Newburgh, NY 12550
Phone: (845) 674-3760
Fx: (845) 567-0428
http://www.paganpythons.com

--- On Fri, 7/3/09, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:


From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Message about: One Male and Two Female Het for Ivory Baby Ball Pythons
To: [email protected]
Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 11:52 PM


This is an email I got from someone:

Hey Ken,

Thanks for the quick response. That is a shame about the infection, I think it is a deal breaker for me. I agree that she is a good looking girl, I'm sure she'll look even better when she gets some weight back on her. If she gets over the infection and you still have her drop me a line. Best of luck with getting her back in good health!


I'm sorry, I thought it was from you. My mistake. Keep in mind I get about 80 emails a day. Anyway, contact me if you like, and perhaps we can do something to make each other happy. If not, I understand.

Thanks, Ken
Exotic Pets LLC
2410 N. Decatur #160
Las Vegas NV 89108
(702) 631-7387
fx (702) 631-7367
www.Exoticpetslv.com