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Info Keven Vogenberger, Keven2, questionable stock

Kevin 2 says.

We have a beautiful chameleon that I'm not sure what kind it is available for 69.99 plus shipping. It's not a veil. He is eating great and is super healthy.


Keven, FYI... it is a veiled and it does not look super healthy as you say in your ad. it looks like a WC Florida veiled that needs to see a good herp vet.
 
I am not a chameleon expert, but I can see that is a veiled with mbd and other possible issues.

First picture I've circled the mbd that is obvious to me.
 

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Not a WC. Wild animals won't get MBD. Especially in FL. If it is, it was collected as a baby or juvenile and cared for poorly as it grew. Those are the signs of CB who experienced poor care throughout its life.
 
I sold the veil to a guy off of here that actually lives close to me for 15 dollars and I let him take it to his vet and yes the veil had some issues in the past but like his vet told him it's an old chameleon. Yes he said it is a veil. I in no way was trying to mislead anybody. In my eyes he is still a very beautiful animal. His vet stated that it was poorly cared for in the past but him being kept outside by me and feeding him dusted crickets and natural sunlight has slowed down or may have even stopped the progression of mbd. I paid 100.00 for the Cham and was not looking to make money off of him only to find him a good home. It's my mistake if I did not write the add accordingly. I am not set up for a lot of chameleons so I need the space for a panther chameleon that is in such bad shape it will definitely die if I didn't get him in an enclosure and to a vet. He was just left to roam the people's house thatvi got him from with no heat. You can check my adds I have never even offered an animal like this chameleon before. Any way I guess this is how people treat one another around here. I had already statesd that I took the add down and people persisted to keep the subject going. So if you'd like to hear I was wrong that is no problem. It was wrong for me to post the add I posted I should have worded it differently. The guy that bought it does not want his name thrown out here and I don't blame him. Believe me this will not happen again. I truly hope all off You have a blessed day!
 
Keven, please post the vet papers. Until you do, I do not believe that you ever took him to a vet.
The problem was not simply that you misled people. You actively put them down when they posted what they thought. Here, from your ad:

You have no idea what you are talking about! It is not a veil look how small his crest is and he definitely dies not have mbd. You obviously don't know what mbd looks like im chameleons. If you don't like the way he looks don't buy him. I have had him for 6 months he came to me looking like this. He may not be the prettiest Cham in the world but he isn't sick!
 
I have since sold the chameleon for 15.00 he took it to his vet and he stated it is a veil and it has mbd but the progression has stopped. I was told by my vet some different things and it turns out we just have a very bad herp vet here. Yes i should have worded the add different knowing what I know now. He is still a beautiful animal in my eyes as is all Gods creatures. I know how the veil looks but he really does not let it affect his eating and all around actions. So yes I guess from my add it comes off like he is a super healthy veil. The second vet said he is very old also and probably was not treated good in the past which I can attest to since they had him kept in a 5 gallon tank. Anyway you are 100 percent correct and I am 100 percent in the wrong but have learned from this mistake. Thank you for bringing this to my attention and I truly hope you have a blessed day!
 
Keven2 said:
I sold the veil to a guy off of here that actually lives close to me for 15 dollars and I let him take it to his vet and yes the veil had some issues in the past but like his vet told him it's an old chameleon. Yes he said it is a veil.
Click to expand...

So, you DIDN'T take it to a vet as you had claimed.

Keven2 said:
It's my mistake if I did not write the add accordingly.
Click to expand...

No, you did not.

Keven2 said:
Any way I guess this is how people treat one another around here.
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It is when your ad states its healthy and "its not a veiled", when it is obvious not a healthy specimen and is a veiled Cham.


While I applaud you for your rescue efforts, you may need to familiarize yourself with signs of mbd and avoid spending money on animals with it.
 
Omg I took it too a vet and my ad said I didn't know what kind of Cham it was I took it to the vet she told me it was a helmeted chameleon I'm not posting names or paper work I really don't have time for this I took the add down I apologised I admitted what I did was wrong while unintentional it was not right please just let this go. I have so much going on to sit here and argue back and forth with you. You proved your point you are right I am wrong.
 
The way you handle yourself when you have been called out on your error(s) in an ad, does not give one confidence that you would handle an issue after an animal arrives sick/dead well.
 
Keven2 said:
Omg I took it too a vet and my ad said I didn't know what kind of Cham it was I took it to the vet she told me it was a helmeted chameleon I'm not posting names or paper work I really don't have time for this I took the add down I apologised I admitted what I did was wrong while unintentional it was not right please just let this go. I have so much going on to sit here and argue back and forth with you. You proved your point you are right I am wrong.
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There is no proof you took it to the vet. There is no proof that you are not simply flipping rescues. If you choose not to post proof, that is up to you, but this thread will stay here so that future prospective buyers can see how you handle adversity. Saying the other person is right and telling them to have a blessed day doesn't stop other readers from wondering if you simply lie about the health and identification of all your stock.
I flat out don't believe that the vet said it wa a helmeted and that the vet said this miserable creature was in the best of health. I think you are lying.
 
Keven2 said:
Omg I took it too a vet and my ad said I didn't know what kind of Cham it was I took it to the vet she told me it was a helmeted chameleon I'm not posting names or paper work I really don't have time for this I took the add down I apologised I admitted what I did was wrong while unintentional it was not right please just let this go. I have so much going on to sit here and argue back and forth with you. You proved your point you are right I am wrong.
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Keven, Yes you were wrong to post up the veiled in the condition that he was in. I guess you were trying to drop it on a newbie or someone else that knew nothing about chams.then when called out you come here with a bad attitude and decide you wont post any proof that was asked of you, then expect us to take your word on it. well you have already proven that your words are lies.yes you were wrong... very wrong!
 
First off im not throwing the vet tech under the bus I called and talked to the vet tech. Me not knowing enough about my product was wrong and I admit that but this bullying is wrong also. I will not post up any info on the vet I went to the guy who bought the veil went to or the guy who purchased the veils name. I don't care how long this stays up there I refuse to handle the situation like that. It was just a vet tech trying to be helpful not knowing much about chameleons and I'm not going to put her on blast. The gentleman that bought the veil is very happy with him. Besides my sales speak for themselves I go above and beyond for my customers and devote all day every day to caring for my rescues. I mean it wouldn't matter what I say at this point if I said I didn't go to a vet you will still keep this up. I admitted where I was wrong.This whole action your taking is fine you made me realize that the way I advertised the veil was not accurate. I've never sold a veil before not that that is an excuse but the vet tech did give him a clean bill of health. If you've been in this a while you know that most vets don't know much about reptiles. The whole thing is the vet tech did this stuff on the side for me and no matter what I present you with will not be good enough. I honestly believed it was a helmeted chameleon cause thats what i was told So at this point you have probably crushed my ability to sell anything on here and having so many rescues that no one wants I will have to start uthenizing them cause without the money from the sale of animals I cannot care for them and no one wants them! Everyone makes mistakes or messes up I'm sure you have at one time or another also. I took the ad down i admitted where i was wrong and i appologize to whoever it was i went off on in the beginning of this. I thought the animal was a helmeted chameleon and since it eats drinks and acts normal I assumed that meant it's healthy. I understand now that it has past issues that would make it not healthy. Anyway I don't know of anything else I can do. The girl does not want her name brought up the guy that bought the veil does not want his name brought up and I'm not about to just make up some document to appease you. If you like I can send you pics of All the reptiles this is affecting. Also if this was a pattern don't you think someone else would have come and posted something else negative about me. So im asking you to please take this down if you want follow my ads if it happens again put me on blast and I will leave fauna. This is,affecting more then just me there are a lot of rescues that depend on me. If you know a bunch of people that want to take them then leave the add up.
 
Keven2 said:
So at this point you have probably crushed my ability to sell anything on here and having so many rescues that no one wants I will have to start uthenizing them cause without the money from the sale of animals I cannot care for them
Click to expand...

You are trying to guilt people because they pointed out your false advertising. You still don't get that YOU were at fault for advertising such a miserable creature and insisting that it was in great health and was not a veiled.
If you have took in so many critters that you have to make sales to provide for them, you have seriously overextended yourself and YOU have let your critters down.

However, with no proof, I still say that you never went to a vet and a lot of what you are saying is just a bunch of baloney. I do not think any vet would characterize that critter as one 'in the best of health'. And so I think you are just a rescue flipper who got caught.
 
Keven you posted that you took the veiled to the vet.

Now you post that you called a vet tech for answers.so that means you lied to us again about taking the veiled to a vet.

I don't like you calling that veiled your product! it shows exactly how you think about the herps you warehouse.

You mention rescues, you selling rescues is wrong,totally and completely wrong.
 
Keven2 said:
Omg I took it too a vet and my ad said I didn't know what kind of Cham it was I took it to the vet


You proved your point you are right I am wrong.
Click to expand...

You did not take it to a vet, you called a vet tech.

on the last line. you got that right!
 
Keven2 said:
First off im not throwing the vet tech under the bus I called and talked to the vet tech. Me not knowing enough about my product was wrong and I admit that but this bullying is wrong also.
Click to expand...

1. A vet tech is not a vet.
2. Product - it's a live animal, not a product.
3. If you believe this is bullying, you have a very skewed definition of the word. Questioning you and asking for proof of your claims is not bullying.

Keven2 said:
It was just a vet tech trying to be helpful not knowing much about chameleons and I'm not going to put her on blast.
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Vet tech does not mean vet.

Keven2 said:
So at this point you have probably crushed my ability to sell anything on here and having so many rescues that no one wants I will have to start uthenizing them cause without the money from the sale of animals I cannot care for them and no one wants them!
Click to expand...


Holy crap, now you want to throw out a pity card? Basing the ability to care for rescues off the sale of animals is not how it works. If you cannot afford to care for that many animals, you should stop acquiring them. Making the statement about euthanasia was designed to pull on the heartstrings of others. If any of the other animals in your care look like the chameleon or worse, euthanizing may be best.
 
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