Kevin Smith - oreganus@hotmail

[COBRAMAN]

Kevin, I don't know Jeremy, so you may be right that he was goiing to rip you off. I don't have those answers. However I can get the answer to the shipping issue.

Again I ask you: Would you like me to have your shipping data retrieved through the Delta Cargo computer?

Ray

 

[COBRAMAN]

Ok,(I did not see your last reply) I will send you an e-mail in which you will need to express your consent for me to get the info from Delta. You or Jeremy will need to give me the date it was sent, the airport of departure, and the destination airport.

Ray

 

[SPJ]

What a lot of posting that has nothing to do with the question I asked months ago.

From what I have read so far, Kevin shipped a venemoid king to Jeremy that was feeding on rodents while in his care. It reverted back to a snake eater while in Jeremy's care which is understandable with these snakes. Jeremy wants a refund. Kevin offered to take it back but Jeremy won't supply pics or ship it back. No snake means no refund. I totally agree with Kevin on that one. Kevin claims to have shipped Delta but Jeremy claims to have received it via UPS. That's a tough one to settle since neither has offered concrete proof of the shipper used. However, I think the shipping issue is taking away from the fact that Jeremy is bashing Kevin for selling him a snake that he is not happy with but will not return the snake for the refund. Does he even have the snake anymore? A pic takes les than a minute to take, download, and email.
From my understanding of what has happened so far, Jeremy is not entitled to a refund and should stop the negative postings since he was offered a refund but chose not to take the steps neccessary to get one.

 

[snakegetters]

Re: TT......

give it up, I know you are a cranky old woman that is always right, but frankly your nonsense is just getting plain old. No wonder I don't see you on kingsnake that much anymore, I guess they got sick of your rants also.
Kevin Smith

Yeah, I'm a cranky old lady. I don't like criminals at all. I guess I just have no sense of humor when it comes to people who do illegal and inhumane things with snakes that threaten to shut things down for all of us in the herp community.

Illegal home butchery of snakes for profit, sending king cobras in the mail, selling "venomoids" that can still envenomate. Silly me to get all cranky about little things like that.

Are you really too stupid to understand the potential consequences of your own actions, or just too greedy to care?

 

[Bringerofdoom]

actaully spj it has sometihng to do with the questions you asked. would you have wanted a venemoid that kevin operated on himself??? especially when this was posts over 2 years ago, when other threads called him a butcherer in 03???? would you want a king cobra shipped via ups to you too?

 

[Wilomn]

What a lot of posting that has nothing to do with the question I asked months ago.

From what I have read so far, Kevin shipped a venemoid king to Jeremy that was feeding on rodents while in his care. It reverted back to a snake eater while in Jeremy's care which is understandable with these snakes. Jeremy wants a refund. Kevin offered to take it back but Jeremy won't supply pics or ship it back. No snake means no refund. I totally agree with Kevin on that one. Kevin claims to have shipped Delta but Jeremy claims to have received it via UPS. That's a tough one to settle since neither has offered concrete proof of the shipper used. However, I think the shipping issue is taking away from the fact that Jeremy is bashing Kevin for selling him a snake that he is not happy with but will not return the snake for the refund. Does he even have the snake anymore? A pic takes les than a minute to take, download, and email.
From my understanding of what has happened so far, Jeremy is not entitled to a refund and should stop the negative postings since he was offered a refund but chose not to take the steps neccessary to get one.

Steve, you're right.

However, being as how kevin has nothing but contempt for this board and has stated on several occasions that heneedsnoneofusandhisbusinessisdoingquitewellthankyou, I don't think he really cares what anyone here has to say about it. Being as how he has lied and threatened and tried to intimidate I have serious doubts about the shipping method used and frankly, I care more about that than I do whether or not he's getting the dirty end of the stick for once.

When the bad guys get screwed it just doesn't hurt the way it does when Joe Newbie gets taken advantage of.

I had figured to wait on figuring out the whole snake and where is it deal until we had the shipping method ironed out.

I guess I was letting my personal dislike of kevin get in the way.

Time for pics and documents from ALL parties.

Gentlemen.......

 

[COBRAMAN]

SPJ, I agrre with you for the most part. I don't understand why Jeremy would not want to resolve this my getting a $10 throw-away camera and getting the pics. If he is not an approved delta shipper, I'm sure he could find one to ship the cobra back to Kevin. I think it is good of Kevin to be willing to refund the money, and I don't see that he is obligated to do so.

However, IF and i stress IF, a cobra was sent via UPS, that is a big no no. If Kevin did not do this, it will be very easy to prove it either way, and I am willing to help either side obtain that proof. Sending a cobra by UPS is beyond stupid, if not illegal, and could result in negative issues for the rest of us that conduct business in a legal mannor. So even though it started off as one issue, a seperate issue has been opened up. If I were Kevin, I would be going out of my way to obtain (or retrieve) proof that I did not send a cobra by UPS.

As for the refund, if Jeremy wants his money, he will do what Kevin is asking, as I don't know of any reason that Kevin should be obligated to refund in the first place.

Just my two cents

Ray

 

[snakegetters]

Originally posted by COBRAMAN As for the refund, if Jeremy wants his money, he will do what Kevin is asking, as I don't know of any reason that Kevin should be obligated to refund in the first place.

I agree that Jeremy needs to cough up some pics or arrange to send the snake COD via a legal shipping route. No more UPS, please.

The reason a refund might be called for is that the snake was a "guaranteed" rodent feeder. Now I think it's a bit foolish to guarantee that a wild caught king will reliably eat ANYTHING after it's been stressed by shipping. I wouldn't make that kind of guarantee, but that does seem to be what Kevin did. Kevin does a lot of things that most of us wouldn't do.

I say "might" be called for, because it has been six months. If the snake has not had a good standard of care during that time, it could be in much worse condition. It's not fair to a dealer to take a snake, let its condition denegerate significantly over many months due to your lack of ability to provide good support care, and then demand a refund.

More importantly, it's not fair to the snake. The animal is the only one I really have much sympathy for in this particular transaction.

 

[schlegelii]

king

I want every one to know that the king was Venomous , not that it makes a difference to UPS when shipping illegally. As far as proof, I have the tracking number and the box (picture to come). I Have no problem shipping the snake COD using Delta, but we are currently dealing with a bigger issue.

 

[Mustangrde1]

To Both Parties.

Please post ALL your e-mails if you have them including any that confirms shipment and date it arrived.

Post any pictures of the King Kevin from your end any file photos of it and Jeremy as a hot keeper I know most take great pride in thier animals and have pics when they get it so please scann any you have of it.

As to the Delta / UPS . Please post any proof one way or another. Ray Hunter has stated he will help either party to prove through either of the carriers the info.

This desptie my views on Kevin is not a void issue. It is however a issue on potentially False advertising if the king was not a rodent feeder and an Issue on questionable shipping. couple others of more minor signifigants as well.

Jeremy If you need to return the King Via ups to Kevin I am sure there are a few large reptile dealers in NY that for a fee will ship the animal back to Kevin for you Legally.

 

[The BoidSmith]

The bigger issue

I want every one to know that the king was Venomous , not that it makes a difference to UPS when shipping illegally. As far as proof, I have the tracking number and the box (picture to come). I Have no problem shipping the snake COD using Delta, but we are currently dealing with a bigger issue.

Jeremy.,

Yes, I agree 100% that we are dealing with a bigger issue. Here it goes again. You psted Kevin's proposal to ship UPS. Could you post the e-mail with your reply as well? Secondly, which state are you in?

It seems that in this instance the saying It takes two to tango applies very well.

The bigger issue here is not if the snake eats rodents or not, or the time elapsed, or even the $800. The bigger issue here is that a person sent a venomous animal via UPS. What at least I would like to know is if you agreed to this. As we asked from Kevin, just a yes or no answer will suffice.

Thanks.

 

[snakegetters]

Re: king

I want every one to know that the king was Venomous , not that it makes a difference to UPS when shipping illegally. As far as proof, I have the tracking number and the box (picture to come). I Have no problem shipping the snake COD using Delta, but we are currently dealing with a bigger issue.

How's this scenario for ya.

King cobras are remarkably well muscled for their size, and they've got a little more upstairs than most snakes. Just a little negligence on the part of a UPS handler, getting the box caught in something that could tear cardboard and cloth, and we have a deadly serious situation. I've gotten overnight packages from UPS in the past (one just last month actually) that were crunched up pretty badly on the corners.

If there had been a live animal in last month's package instead of my Halloween costume, I wouldn't have given great odds that the animal would still be in it. We've heard horror stories here on the BOI about lizard shippers losing lizards in the mail this way. So yeah, it can happen if you ship UPS.

How serious would the situation be? The package not being labelled correctly, it would take awhile to identify a brown cobra as a subadult king. A UPS employee could die. That's worst case. In a better case escape scenario, the cobra is eventually seen and/or captured but doesn't bite anybody. Or maybe it gets away without being sighted, but its dead body turns up as roadkill and makes the papers anyways.

Backlash of pubic opinion from an incident like this is very likely to lead to restrictive legislation against venomous snakes, against shipping reptiles in the mail, and against our rights to keep any reptiles at all.

Jeremy, if you were aware that this guy was planning to ship to you UPS, you've made yourself one of the bad guys too by putting us all at risk of these consequences.

 

[Keith Northrop]

Kevin's Bad News!

He tryed to get me to ship venomous Ups/Fedx twice over the last year plus. He's a scam. I'm sure their will be Bad Deals coming from him.
I'm watching....

 

[SPJ]

I want every one to know that the king was Venomous

Whoa! Hold the phone. I thought this was a venemoid king. You mean to tell me he shipped a HOT king thru UPS and you knowlingly accepted it!?

Bad enough shipping a venemoid illegally but one that is fully capable of delivering a fatal bite!

Both of you need to be investigated for the role each of you played in the shipment of this animal!

 

[cka]

The idea that both of you would complete this kind of transaction this iresponsibly is completely mind boggling...Do you have any comprehension anywhere in your tiny little minds the amount of media overkill that would result if that snake had gotten loose?...As far as 90% of the world is concerned, snakes are evil and the King Cobra is just that , the King of all that is evil...You have no idea or just dont f$%#*&g care how badly you could have hurt the herp community and set it back in the publics perception...It goes just a little but beyond a king that has stressed and stopped eating...

...One smaller note...I don't know how "proficient" a hacker Mr Smith is, but just because he has made it a venomoid doesn't mean it cant kill someone...from the little i've learned about the practice if it is done wrong the snake is still capable of producing venom...

Way to go, guys, way to support the community :*(

 

[COBRAMAN]

FOR THE RECORD...

I never heard back from Kevin when I e-mailed him last night to help get him the Delta records to prove his claim. Because I do not have authorization, I will not post my findings, but I now have official confirmation that Kevin DID NOT send the King cobra by Delta airlines. A Delta staff member went back 9 months to verify that Kevin has NOT used Delta to ship the King Cobra. Surprised??? Nope, not me. A proven liar, is a liar! Why would we expect anything else from him?

Thanks Kevin! Keep up your work at elliminating our hobby. Expect a little something from me soon, and enjoy.

 

[snakegetters]

The idea that both of you would complete this kind of transaction this iresponsibly is completely mind boggling...Do you have any comprehension anywhere in your tiny little minds the amount of media overkill that would result if that snake had gotten loose?...As far as 90% of the world is concerned, snakes are evil and the King Cobra is just that , the King of all that is evil...You have no idea or just dont f$%#*&g care how badly you could have hurt the herp community

Naaah, he thinks I'm just a cranky old lady for being concerned about minor little details like that.

...One smaller note...I don't know how "proficient" a hacker Mr Smith is, but just because he has made it a venomoid doesn't mean it cant kill someone...from the little i've learned about the practice if it is done wrong the snake is still capable of producing venom...

Kevin keeps saying that I'm just making up the fact that venomoid operations are not 100% reliable especially when performed by non veterinarians. He likes to ignore the evidence and the statements of well respected and well published reptile veterinarians who have verified re-fissuring after ductectomy and failed/partial adenectomies that have left the animals able to deliver significant envenomation. He doesn't care, and he'll keep right on selling people botched venomoids until somebody gets killed.

One of his unhappy customers came on here reporting that Kevin sold him a "venomoid" canebrake that was still quite capable of envenomating and killing prey. http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8527

Most likely he will also go right on shipping venomous snakes illegally, again until somebody gets killed. Personally I think it would be a good idea to put this guy in jail before he can do any more damage to our community.

 

[oreganus]

Re: Kevin's Bad News!

He tryed to get me to ship venomous Ups/Fedx twice over the last year plus. He's a scam. I'm sure their will be Bad Deals coming from him.
I'm watching....

Keith, that is a bald faced lie, I have never dealt with except for one time, in which I prepaid for delta shipping. I ended up making you give my money back because you were being a jackass and giving me excuses about shipping. Other than that I have never dealt with you, so I don't know where you get off trying to come on here and make up stuff.
Ray, I did ship delta, so I don't know why you would make a statement like that without knowing all the facts. I will get a copy of the airbill, but I don't really care because basically this forum is bull<font color=red>[**censored**]</font>. A bunch of jackasses jumping on here talking <font color=red>[**censored**]</font> when they don't know the situation or the facts. Other than that you little people can drag this on for another 80 pages, I don't really care because it doesn't matter in the bigger picture. And lastly.....
For Jeremy, ONE QUESTION, IF YOU HAD NO PROBLEM WITH SHIPPING DELTA, WHY DID YOU COME ON HERE TO SLAM ME AND MAKE UP ALL OF THESE LIES??? WHY DIDN'T YOU JUST SHIP THE DAMN SNAKE IN THE FIRST PLACE AND GET IT OVER WITH? COULD IT BE BECAUSE YOU ARE LYING ABOUT THAT TOO???
Kevin Smith

 

[bcfos]

Having watched this unfold I am waiting like the rest of the forum for proof that Kevin did ship a king via UPS. That proof would include pictures of the box. scans of the shipping labels, a picture of the snake in question, copies of all e mails between Kevin and Jeremy, and last but not least a copy of the signed shipping ticket which you can have UPS print off for you.

 

[The BoidSmith]

Calling names is not going to help either party one bit.

Ray, I did ship delta, so I don't know why you would make a statement like that without knowing all the facts. I will get a copy of the airbill, but I don't really care because basically this forum is bull[**censored**]. A bunch of jackasses jumping on here talking [**censored**] when they don't know the situation or the facts.

The problem is that most people here have been requesting the facts. A couple of days ago partial e-mails were provided (so far no-one denied they were not true). But when the rest of the e-mails were requested... "sudden silence at the end of the line". Oddly enough either party doesn't want now to provide facts. No airbill, no UPS tracking #, no e-mail exchange. Nada.