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Kevin Smith - oreganus@hotmail

Re: Scott....

oreganus said:
It doesn't matter how much proof I or anyone else show you,
Kevin
Click to expand...

I haven't responded to this thread, because I was waiting for the OP to post the info he said he was going to post. The way I see it there are two main issues (I don't have an opinion either way on the pro/anti venomoid issue)
issue
1. The issue of weather the snake did or did not meet the "criteria" for return relating to a guarantee or at least a breeders willingness to make a deal right.
issue
2. Was the snake shipped illegally and irresponsibly via overnight or was it shipped responsibly and legally via delta.

issue number 1.
The OP had ample opportunity to meet criteria for issue number one, the seller offered him the opportunity to return it COD, all he had to do was show a photo, to at least acknowledge he still had it (at least I hope this is that thread where that was the stated offer, so many pages, so many threads......)
issue number 2.
This is where I quoted your statement. The fact of the matter is that all it would take is the airbill info and/or a copy of the reciept showing the shipping-receiver info, and those of us with no other issues would be satisfied, that you were the standup guy in this complaint/issue.

Like I said there are many of us who only care about the credibility issues of the buyer and seller, and don't think the venemoid issue has anything to do with it. Given the OP has apparently flaked out on issue #1, if you took it upon yourself to satisfy issue number 2, many of us lurkers would agree that you came out on top on this complaint, and that the issue was resolved.
JMHO
 
Ok...let's just leave it to the facts as presented:

1.) You admit that you shipped this guy a King Cobra

2.) He has supplied a UPS tracking number that jibes with the date of shipping that had a point of departure within walking distance of your home.

3.) He has supplied Emails that support the fact that you shipped the cobra through UPS

4,) A reliable source (Ray Hunter) has stated that Delta has verified that you did not ship the Cobra through them.

Since you have presented no facts information or evidence at all with the exception of flat blind denial, this is what we have to come to a conclusion on.

I am not in any way shape or form an anti-venemoid person...I really don't have an opinion one way or another about venomoids so that can't be my motivation.

You have continually evaded every direct question aimed in your direction since this thread started and have basically taken the stance that everyone is against you because you sell venemoids. This alone has been your only explanation.

In all honesty Kevin, you actually seem like a reasonably intelligent individual from the structure and wording in your posts, so let me put it to you. Presented with the contents of this thread as is, what conclusions do you think any person of average intelligence would come to?
 
Bravo John

I have to admit that others have recently said what I believe and much better than I am able to. The first issue that is of concern from what I have seen has been settled. Kevin has done what if not more than any reasonable seller would do when there product has been placed in question. For this Kevin I applaude you, you have tried to resolve the issue of the King in an admirable way!

The second issue is where my concern and I am sure the vast majority is placed. How was the King shipped? If the King was shipped UPS then not only did you risk the well being of the people involved in shipping the snake but the financial future of other reptile breeder and distributors. That is where I think the main issue with you is centered by the majority and non of the other issue matter at this point.

Kevin you have been asked on multiple occasions for some form of proof to support your exclamations of proper shipping, others have offered to assist you in obtaining that evidence aswell. To this point there has been no evidence to prove your statement but there has been circumstantial evidence that points to the potential that you have shipped a Cobra to the state of NY which I would assume that at some point the snake did go through the city of New York, via UPS.

I personally could care less about the deal that you made with the buyer for the snake or the issue of venamoids. I do care about my future ability of being able to ship my reptiles in the future. This issue is even more important to me and others like me that doesn't live anywhere near an airport.

Personally I believe the only issue is shipping and that can easily be resolved with a little cooperation for you Kevin. You also complain about the length of this thread that can also be easily remedied by you Kevin provide evidence or merely quit replying.


Jonathan Brumfield
 
I will make one other comment. In an earlier post Jeremy made mention that Kevin had stated he did not have the money to refund him. If he truly did make that statement, I for one would not ship the animal to him COD at a later date. All you risk at that point is that he will not be able to pay the COD at the Delta counter and the animal either sits there or is returned.

I had it happen once with one of the major carriers, I am speaking from experience.

Also, what possible use would the pics Kevin stated he wanted be to him as security that Jeremy would send the animal back? ll that would prove is that Jeremy had the animal in his possession long enough to take a picture. It does not ensure that he would ship the animal back after receiving a refund. He would have no idea as to when the pics were taken. It could have been months prior.

If the offer for the COD shipment had been made first, I agree that that it would have been a fair offer of resolution. However, the rest of Kevin's story just does not make sense.

I fall back to my previous post and say that you have to form tour opinion from the evidence at hand.
 
interesting.....

It is funny how this thread can go from completely idiotic, then on the last page we can get intelligent posts. I will say this, I will try and track down the airbill and info. There are alot of factors that are making it hard to do, not only the fact that this deal was so long ago and I don't remember the date or rough time frame that he got the snake, but also because there were several issues in getting it shipped to him because he apparently is never available to pick stuff up. It took like three weeks to get the snake shipped because he couldn't pick it up, then the addresses and names kept changing. I told Ray that via email, not to drag him into it, but just to give a reference that I mentioned that before. It was anywhere from 6months to a year ago when this all took place. I will try and see what I can turn up. I don't remember airports,name, or town it was sent to. That isn't an excuse, that is the truth. This guy has been a pain from the time he sent payment for it. He obviously has no experience with kings, since if you get any king that is eating as great as the one I sold him can be switched to rodents fairly easily. For the record I did put "experienced individuals" on the ad because it was such a great snake and I would hate for it to be killed because of lack of experience. I know this has nothing to do with the ups argument, but I thought I would give everyone a little more insight into the situation. I will see what I can turn up.
Kevin
 
Wrong Again

oreganus said:
Your little piddly crap just wasn't worth mentioning. I have paid as little as $56-57 for delta, I never said I haven't paid as much as $200-300.
Click to expand...

WRONG!!! The lowest Delta charges is $68 for up to 50 pounds. You are so full of crap. And still have not proved anything. Why? Because You can't!!!

Go ahead, prove me wrong. You would if you could
 
Whoops, Wrong again !!!

oreganus said:
and your point is what?? didn't I post that I ship venomous and NONvenomous through delta?? didn't I post that I have paid more than $55 for shipping on several occasions. I only ship in legal containers and boxing methods with all the stuff that goes through delta, how could you do it any other way?? they do inspect the boxes, if you know so much about delta, you should know that.
Kevin
Click to expand...

The MINIMUM charge is $68 for up to 50 ponds. It does not matter if you are sending venomous or not!!! Stupid liar!

It would cost you $68 to send a matchbox with your 2oz brain in it. Don't you understand wht " up to 50 pounds" means? You just keep making a bigger ass of yourself
 
Whoops! Wrong yet again!!!

oreganus said:
You shouldn't have chimed in about something that you don't know anything about. They are required to check ALL freight now to see that they are properly packed and boxed. ".
Kevin Smith
Click to expand...


Ray told me that he has NEVER had ANY of his shipments inspected in the past 2 years. WHOOPS, KEVIN LIED AGAIN!

Or is Ray Hunter Lying? Go ahead and say it...I dare you!
 
Boy, you are really full of it tonight

I have a question about that, would it say "king cobra" on the computer or would it say "live venomous reptiles"? Last time I checked it very rarely says the species on any airbill or box.


Have you ever even been to a Delta? IT IS LAW THE THE WOOD BOX BE MARKED "VENOMOUS REPTILES" AND THE COMMON AND SCIENTIFIC NAME OF THE CONTENTS!!!!!

You CLEARLY have never shipped DELTA
 
Suncoast Herpetological said:
I will make one other comment. In an earlier post Jeremy made mention that Kevin had stated he did not have the money to refund him. If he truly did make that statement, I for one would not ship the animal to him COD at a later date. All you risk at that point is that he will not be able to pay the COD at the Delta counter and the animal either sits there or is returned.

I had it happen once with one of the major carriers, I am speaking from experience.

Also, what possible use would the pics Kevin stated he wanted be to him as security that Jeremy would send the animal back? ll that would prove is that Jeremy had the animal in his possession long enough to take a picture. It does not ensure that he would ship the animal back after receiving a refund. He would have no idea as to when the pics were taken. It could have been months prior.

If the offer for the COD shipment had been made first, I agree that that it would have been a fair offer of resolution. However, the rest of Kevin's story just does not make sense.

I fall back to my previous post and say that you have to form tour opinion from the evidence at hand.
Click to expand...

COD can present problems, but if I was going to return someones money on a guarantee, I would want proof that it was dead (not relevant here) or that it be sent back, then I would send the money. Not sure if you return the money first, but there are a lot of scammers who try to keep the herp and then get money back. So either the OP would have to send the king back on his dime (which is a requirement of a lot of guarantees) or he can send it COD. Either way there is a chance he might not get his money for the snake. In which case he would then have a very good bad guy case.
As for the photo, wasn't the original deal 6 months or more ago? Yet this seller offered to refund (granted apparently there were some e-mails saying he didn't have the money) for a return of the king? If so I would personally want a photo too, one that could show it was recent, like with a dated newspaper or something. Especially one where it seems the person may not have been able to provide it with proper care (live snakes, if that is all it was eating) 6 months is a long time, could have died in that time or OP could have sold it because it wasn't feeding on rodents.

Again let me say I am only going on what has been posted. I have no way of knowing if the OP is telling the truth, until and if he posts this alleged evidence. Same for the seller. Those being the points I posted in my previous post.
 
We're on a roll tonight

I have paid around that for a box that came with From Ray and contained a baby king and a black spitter. I am not trying to drag Ray into this, I am merely giving an example.

Just called Ray. He (unlike you) has his records. He pulled that invoice, and told me that you paid $67.97 for that LITTLE BOX.

Is Ray LYING?
 
Scott has a little male fantasy thing going on with me, he is one of my biggest stalker/fans. I am not sure what homo-erotic fantasies he has about me, but he will be on this thread for awhile now.
Click to expand...

His fatasy of you may be the same as mine... To know that you are in a 6X9 cell with a huge fat, sex starved man that refuses to bath.
 
I don't remember airports,name, or town it was sent to. That isn't an excuse, that is the truth. This guy has been a pain from the time he sent payment for it. .
Click to expand...


A) all you have to do is call Delta and ask them to give you a print out of your activity for the past 2 years (that is what Ray Hunter did). You don't need to know the exact day. When you look at your printout (which will only take a blink of the eye, since yours is blank) you look for one that is going to new york. It's called process of illimination.



He obviously has no experience with kings, since if you get any king that is eating as great as the one I sold him can be switched to rodents fairly easily
Click to expand...


So now you are saying the King that you sold him as a "GUARANTEED RODENT EATER" really was not???
 
the shipping

If the shipping time was 6months to a 12 months ago that would mean that the snake was shipped between November 03-May 04. Is this all that had to be done.

Burgerboy, just call Delta. Tell them you are a moron and you need them to retrieve all airbills sent to New York from your origin between 11-03 and 5-04. They are a customer service oriented business, and I am sure they would be more than to accomodate you. With todays technology, the information can be gathered in seconds and we can clear the air. Give them a call.

Jason Shephard
 
Sorry about all the posts...

I was just catching up from last night.


With todays technology, the information can be gathered in seconds and we can clear the air. Give them a call.
Click to expand...

If Ray Hunter could have it done in tem minutes from Florida (and it was not even his account), why cant You, kevin?
 
Thank you....

reptilebreeder said:
COD can present problems, but if I was going to return someones money on a guarantee, I would want proof that it was dead (not relevant here) or that it be sent back, then I would send the money. Not sure if you return the money first, but there are a lot of scammers who try to keep the herp and then get money back. So either the OP would have to send the king back on his dime (which is a requirement of a lot of guarantees) or he can send it COD. Either way there is a chance he might not get his money for the snake. In which case he would then have a very good bad guy case.
As for the photo, wasn't the original deal 6 months or more ago? Yet this seller offered to refund (granted apparently there were some e-mails saying he didn't have the money) for a return of the king? If so I would personally want a photo too, one that could show it was recent, like with a dated newspaper or something. Especially one where it seems the person may not have been able to provide it with proper care (live snakes, if that is all it was eating) 6 months is a long time, could have died in that time or OP could have sold it because it wasn't feeding on rodents.

Again let me say I am only going on what has been posted. I have no way of knowing if the OP is telling the truth, until and if he posts this alleged evidence. Same for the seller. Those being the points I posted in my previous post.
Click to expand...

Thanks for a very calm, intelligent, and rational post. Mr. Stano could take several lessons from your post. You pretty much described my exact problems with the whole deal between the OP and I.
As for Elapsman,
I don't really have to prove you wrong, but I will because you obviously need to be knocked down off your self proclaimed soap box. I was not a liar about any of it, I DARE YOU TO CALL DELTA AND ASK THEIR RULES ABOUT SHIPPING, THEY ARE REQUIRED TO INSPECT EVERY BOX THAT IS SHIPPED WITH THEM DUE TO THE NEW SAFETY REGULATIONS, if they are not inspecting boxes then they are at fault for not doing so, there are regulations in place to keep everyone safe. There is also an inspection form that must be filled out now on EVERY shipment going out. Why do you keep trying to drag Ray into this, I have been more than courteous in not doing so, but for some reason you keep having to "call him" or quote him in some way, why? are you such a complete moron that you can't call delta yourself and ask them about their rules? If you did, you wouldn't be making an ass out of yourself by contradicting deltas policies. Is there any rational person reading this thread that can confirm what you have to do to ship with delta? Mr. Stano must have no idea what the hell is going on, because he has to call a third party to know his butt from a hole in the ground, everyone can read his posts to figure that one out. Notice I am not being debated on any big facts, only a couple of dollars for a delta fee. Okay genius, what is the commodity code for shipping reptiles? How many times have you shipped delta? What are the CURRENT safety regulations for shipping with them? How about the CURRENT ways to pick up a shipment? I don't ask this because I don't know myself, I am only asking so that you might look into it for yourself and gain a little knowledge, instead of having to rely on third parties for all your info;)
Kevin
 
Kevin

I am not back here to stir sh@^ untill it stinks, as I already know what happened. You know my fellings about all this from our e-mails. I was asked to post one of my past air way bills.

This shipmet contained 2 BABY Rhino Vipers, and weighed 6lbs including the wood box (which was 8"x8"x7"). As you can see this small, light weight box cost $75.47 to go from Florida to MI. Delta charges a set rate for up to 50lbs, regardless of size and regardless of venomous or non-venomous.

Also, I have NEVER had any of my shipments inspected. Maybe they are supposed to (I don't know), but they never have done it with me, Ricky, or his wife.

I was also asked to post the printout from your delta, but because of the mannor in which I obtained it, I will not do that without your permission. If you want it posted, post your permission, and I will do it.

Peace, Ray Hunter
 

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I do have to say something on Kevin's behalf...

...as I specialize in Heterodon platyrhinos (Eastern Hognose Snake), I know first-hand that a rodent feeding snake may not be so in the hands of a less experienced or even different individual. Eastern Hognose Snakes are notorious for their profound preference of an amphibian diet, as are King Cobras similarly noted for their preference of a snake diet. I take the extra time with all my baby snakes to scent pinkies with toad or tuna-scent until the H. platyrhinos gradually accept them as a food source. After that, I do not sell my babies until they have accepted rodent meals at least ten times consecutively. This would certainly constitute them as "rodent feeders". I believe I am being more than accurate in labeling them as such. Those whom I sell to who are experienced with this species usually do not have a problem keeping them on this diet, however, to the less experienced individuals this task seems to present with a larger degree of difficulty. Some are willing to put forth the effort it takes to keep the baby H. platyrhinos on the rodent diet, however, some are not and I know that I am not at fault for their negligence. I offer assistance every step of the way to ensure that any problems are swiftly esolved. In this way, I can certainly *guarantee* that the Eastern Hognose Snakes are rodent feeders (as ten or more consecutive rodent meals are accepted), but I cannot guarantee the competency of the purchaser.

I'm not saying for sure that this is the issue for Jeremy, however, this matter is something that should be taken into consideration before blasting Kevin with accusations of a misrepresented animal.

Jennifer Webb
 
Jennifer, I agree with you 100%. I have already sided with Kevin on that. From what I can see, I'm not so sure that I would refund the money with or without recent photos. King Cobras are very fragile animals, and can go off feeding for almost no reason. Of course I would NEVER guarantee ANY snake to be a feeder (especially a king cobra). I tell buyers with honesty what I am feeding the animal, but I never guarantee they will have the same resilts. It is often times an issue of skill with some snakes.

Again, If Kevin wants to refund the money, that is very kind of him. I don't see any reason why he would be legally responsible to do so.

Ray Hunter
 
Re: Kevin

COBRAMAN said:
I am not back here to stir sh@^ untill it stinks, as I already know what happened. You know my fellings about all this from our e-mails. I was asked to post one of my past air way bills.

This shipmet contained 2 BABY Rhino Vipers, and weighed 6lbs including the wood box (which was 8"x8"x7"). As you can see this small, light weight box cost $75.47 to go from Florida to MI. Delta charges a set rate for up to 50lbs, regardless of size and regardless of venomous or non-venomous.

Also, I have NEVER had any of my shipments inspected. Maybe they are supposed to (I don't know), but they never have done it with me, Ricky, or his wife.

I was also asked to post the printout from your delta, but because of the mannor in which I obtained it, I will not do that without your permission. If you want it posted, post your permission, and I will do it.

Peace, Ray Hunter
Click to expand...

Thank you Ray, and I totally understand. One factor to consider(not to start an argument with you) is that the prices have changed over time, also the policies have changed quite a bit for the last year or two. Also there are different prices for DASH and Priority first. Then when you add in the commodity codes and such, the prices can change also. I am not arguing with you at all, I think your airbill is accurate and helpful in this discussion. I think this is a case where the answer is not one answer, but is different based on all the circumstances I have mentioned. I don't feel that I lied in any way about the delta debate, there is more than one answer to the questions than one for all. As far as the Shipping policies, you know as well as I do, it really depends on the delta office and the people working whether it is by the book or if there are certain inspection policies waved. I haven't ever had to list species on my boxes, but I do label either venomous or nonvenomous. I tried to explain that to Jerry, but he is a little high strung, so there isn't really a way to explain it because it won't be acknowledged.
Kevin Smith
 
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