Kingsnake.com... Again...

[Glenn Bartley]

Oh well, Bambi gets away for another day, but there is a meeting of my local herp society this weekend to make up for that.

As far as all of these animal rights extremists in herpers clothing goes, all I can say is read the linked article attributed to Melissa Kaplan. Maybe she is not an animal rights extremist in your opinion, but in my opinion she certainly seems to lean that way! Just read the article: So, you think you want a reptile? At the very least she certainly discourages people from keeping herps!

And if you really want to see moderation of a herp site that in my opinion seems to be run and used by possible animal rights folks and others whom I believe anthropomorphize to the max (did I spell that right?) well then just go to Practicalpetcare.com. I feel truly sorry for the kids who sign on there and wind up getting brain washed, as I see it, to the tune of animal rights extremists in pet keepers clothes. Some months ago I joined that site, only to be lambasted by inexperienced crusaders who claimed they knew better in there few years on earth than I did in 36 years of herp keeping. I had kids who were apparently about 15 or 16 but who wrote on about a 4th grade level telling me I did not know how to care for herps. Then they rated my answers as poor; they were able to do so because they were listed on that site as EXPERTS and moderators! I would hate to tell you what gets you qualified to be either an expert or moderator but it does not, or ast least did not, take much. I felt it was such a disgusting joke that I quickly left that site. It is amazing though that they are one of the top visited sites, just go to faunatopsites and check on them. I believe they sucker kids in with lots of baby waby sweetie pie cuddly oompah talkie pooh about that cutie pie snakie wakie and how to to lovie dovie it till the day it dies (which is likely, in my opinion, to be an eartly death due to some of the advice I saw given therein). That was definitely one site where I truly believe they do not want knowledgeable people to participate because it would ruin their demi-godlike image with the preteen and teen world.

Maybe we should try to attract more kids, so we can set then straight. No I do not mean to this site in particular - I know I might get lynched for suggesting something like that, but man they should be learning the right way somewhere, shouldn't they?

By the way, I was happily surprised to see how many other meat eaters there are among us! Walt Disney is turning in his gravy! (yes I meant to spell it that way)

 

[HerpVenue]

Glenn I think your link might just be wrong.
I looked at practicalpetcare.com the site I viewed is a pet baby sitting service.

 

[Glenn Bartley]

Whoops y apologies to whomever owns the site I misdirected you to. The correct link for the home page of the Practical Pet Care site I was referring to is:Practical Pet Care

When you get there look around, but make sure to go to the Ask and Expert sections. You will likely be amazed and aghast at what goes on on this site!

 

[Glenn Bartley]

Sorry I forgot to proof read that last one. Go to the Ask An Expert sections, there are sections for many varieties of pets. I went to the one about snakes and read a question someone asked about the farting capabilities of Ball Pythons. Go figure, someone avctually gave an answer, then someone else rated the answer for correctness and politeness among other things; can you believe it!

 

[Rob Hill/Geckos Anonymous]

Well, one thing I noticed when looking through their list of moderators and "experts," the biggest thing that caught my attention is that pretty much NONE of them know how to spell or even use a spell check. I mean I know it's petty, but I am always a little concerned when people are placed(or place themselves) in a position to give supposed expert advice and cannot even spell properly or use correct grammar. Guess they don't require you to finish grade school before becoming an "expert" or moderator to their forums, huh?
I mean, I know we all make spelling and grammar errors, but when they can't write a two sentence biography without them, it's something to be concerned about.
I could not wade through all the posts on there(the farting ball python was funny, though), I did read a couple that concerned me. One in particular is the colombian boa post at the top of the page. Now, I keep and breed colombians. I have been keeping them off and on over the past ten years. The person was asking about a seemingly lethargic snake in a cage where the cool side was 84 and the hot side 95. Noone that posted their "educated" reply bothered to mention that those temps are a bit high for a colombian boa and that the snake could be lethargic from overheating. Could I be wrong in this observation that 84-95 is not a very good heat gradient for a baby colombian?

 

[Pennebaker]

This thread is VERY disturbing.
Has anyone gotten a response from Jeff B?
As for Melissa Kaplan being for the ban on herps, she replied about it in a thread on the BOI about her (I think posted by Seamus). I'll see if I can find it.
Dana

 

[Pennebaker]

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=7073&highlight=Melissa+Kaplan

Here it is

 

[Dianne Johnson]

Vegetarian - Old Indian word for bad hunter

Yep, I'm pro-hunting and love Bambi, Thumper, Rocky & Bullwinkle - all served with grilled veggies. *grin*

Regarding the KS stuff, I've seen a definate change over the past year or so in the forums. More and more there are posts and advice given by uneducated keepers and much more mudslinging at others' work than what there once was. I don't visit the forums or participate like I used to and quite frankly miss a number of the educated and informative people who no longer come to the forums themselves. I don't have AOL but I've heard from others I know about some of these moderators and seen first hand some of the other forums that spout off the bad advice and incorrect information. While I, too, tend to anthropomorphize my animals (they are my babies after all), I also realize that they are perfectly content whether I handle them or not as long as their temps and humidity are correct, and they have enough space, hides/shelter, fresh water and food.

Many of the forums have been infected by these groups and individuals that are shaping the minds of our young people to fit their own agendas. As far as Ms. Kaplan goes, I've read a number of the papers on her site because hers is one of the first sites to come up in a search for reptiles. I find that some of the papers are lacking in accurate information on certain animals as well as actively trying to discourage others from keeping reptiles. The potential for the spread of salmonella is also greatly exagerated IMO - common sense and good hygiene go a long way towards prevention. Unfortunately, those who know the least or who have a certain agenda are often the ones that are the loudest.

Dianne

 

[Darin Chappell]

I don't know very much about anything. I know a little about corn snakes, though. I also know that the following quote from Ms. Kaplan's corn snake care sheet (updated in August of this year) is just flat out wrong and misleading:


"While the Elaphe's feed on everything ranging from fish to frogs to rodents to mammals, the Corn starts off feeding on small invertebrates like crickets, quickly moving up to rodents. "


I'll agree that corns snakes are willing to eat lots of things that most corn keepers never consider. I also know that it is the usual response of many corn keepers to say that they ONLY eat mice. However, I know that this is incorrect, so I am not one of those people.

But let me say this clearly: I HAVE NEVER SEEN A CORN SNAKE EAT A CRICKET!!! I don't know if you could even scent one well enough to tempt a corn into eating it! Do we wonder why it is that so many pet stores sell a bag of 50 crickets with hatchling corns to people who unkowingly will starve their snakes to death? After all the EXPERT said it was true!

Like I said, I don't know very much about anything, but when I see something that is so clearly wrong on an "expert's" care sheet (and it is something that is very commonly known to be wrong), I have to wonder how reliable to rest of the stuff is I don't know about. That is my one and only problem with Ms. Kaplan.

 

[HerpVenue]

So....

Is Jeff Barringer no longer the webmaster at Kingsnake?
Because Jopnathan Brady went on the Boa forum....He asked if people can do him a favor and tell him what they think of his website. Then some guy "khanley" wrote him an e-mail telling him not to post links on the forum to his website. He signed it kingsnake webmaster.

So I wrote to "khanley" telling him he is an idiot for pretending to be the kingsnake webmaster. I also posted on the forums that it was some guy named "khanley".

Well I got an e-mail back from "khanley" It was Kevin Hanley

From: Kevin Hanley [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: [email protected]
Subject: surprise
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Return-Path: [email protected]



No I actually am the webmaster,


----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 11:29 PM
Subject: Message from RitchieReptiles about
http://forum.kingsnake.com/boa/messages/134845.html


> I see you like to pretend you are the kingsnake webmaster...
> I see you sent Jonathan Brady messages.
>
> Hey dummy. It shows on the bottom who the e-mail is from
>
> This message was sent by the user: RitchieReptiles
>

--
Kevin Hanley
Webmaster
Kingsnake.com

here is the second one

From: "kevin hanley" [email protected]
To: [email protected]
References: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Message from RitchieReptiles about http://forum.kingsnake.com/boa/messages/134845.html
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 09:04:49 -0600
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
Return-Path: [email protected]

P.S.

before you start calling people names in email or on the forums, be sure you
know who your talking to.

you posts have been deleted.

By the way...he says my posts have been deleted.
he forgot to mention that he deleted Jonathan Brady's apology. He also deleted everyone saying how wrong it was for kingsnake to send him that e-mail etc etc etc
So he deleted his bad judgments...there is no longer any evidence that he made a bad judgment.
And to think...all Jonathan did was ask what people thought of his website.

Looks like Kevin Hanley is now gonna run kingsnake like Joe Polanco runs his website.
And how is that you ask?
If he does not like it...or if it shows his error...it WILL be deleted.

 

[HerpVenue]

On a more personal note....
I will stay away from kingsnake for a while.
Moderators are clueless animal rights activists...
and the "webmaster" will delete your messages if it shows an error on kingsnakes part.

 

[HerpVenue]

Well I posted a message on kingsnake boa forums...calling him on his error....and what did I get?

From: Kevin Hanley [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: [email protected]
Subject: end of posting
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Return-Path: [email protected]

Since you have decided to attack me personally on the site, your
ability to post has be ended.

--
Kevin Hanley
Webmaster
Kingsnake.com

 

[jbuncc]

that is beyond ridiculous.
i have to say thank you ritchie for sticking up for me, but i'm sorry that you were banned from kingsnake. i'll write khanley and see if i can't get him to change his mind...
jb

 

[Ken Harbart]

Couple of things...

Kevin Haley is indeed webmaster of kingsnake.com, and has been for some time now. Jeff is still heading the company, though.

I actually have to stick up for Kevin on the issue of Jonathan's post. While there was no harm in JB's post, it did violate the forum TOS. Realistically though, I would exercised some discretion and let it slide.

 

[HerpVenue]

1. Well I did not know he was the webmaster...oh well water under the bridge.

2. I called the moderators...ie all the ones with PH on their names as Animal rights activists.... I guess Kevin thought I was refering to him... oh well he got his feelings hurt... so I was banned.

Just let it go Jonathan.
If it is against TOS to ask for opinions on your website.....Just let it go. I would think boldly posting links in an add campaign is wrong and against TOS but asking for opinions is another matter.

He says he erased your aoplogy because of my posts.
I say he erased your apology because it showed his error in judgment.
I mean if my post was so bad......why did he not just delete my posts and my posts alone. Wanna know why?
Because he is the Next Joe Polanco in the making. Your apology pointed out to everyone his error in judgment. So he deleted it....I am surprised you did not get banned.

 

[E2MacPets]

Joy.. so glad i'm not using kingsnake as much anymore... everything is going downhill.

 

[HerpVenue]

by the way..
I am in no way saying Kevin is a bad guy.
Quite the reverse....Kevin is a good guy.
I just think he made an error in his judgement.
He might have just woken up on the wrong side of the bed like I did.

Hey we are all human.

now I gotta go to the store and buy one of those snake things for plumbing.....my basement is flooded

 

[Glenn Bartley]

I was looking at the kingsnake.com home page tonight and noticed they have what I think are fairly new link additions to click on near the top of the screen. You know the area where they list the forums, classifieds, breeders, dealers, events and so forth. Maybe they have been there awhile and I missed them before, but two that struck me as new were: "Animal Issues" and "Pet Loss"; so I checked them out.

The animal loss area deals with lots of things about someone losing a pet. It is sponsored (or whatever you call it when online by PetHobbyist.com {the parent site of kingsnake.com - I believe}). I would never have imagined such stuff on kingsnake.com; but as if that had not been enough of a shock to my system - just try to imagine what amazement (and horror) I felt when I clicked on the "Animal Issues" link and found a link to this article: Young mother nursed orphan pups

If this is the kind of stuff that kingsnake.com is linking itself to, or is allowing itself to be linked to, then I imagine that we have lost what once was a great web site source of herpetological knowledge because it is now been over run, in my opinion, by wackos. Talk about, what in my opinion, is truly sick anthropomorphic behavior, this one takes first prize! If this is the kind of thing we have to look forward to at kingsnake.com, well then maybe I should reconsider having a web site hosted by them. I was thinking of doing that but now have serious reservations. I certainly would not want stuff like that article in anyway associated with my site, even if only by my site’s association with kingsnake.com. I will likely be in touch with them in the near future to see what they have to say about it.

By the way I just posted asking people to look at my web site because I was considering having it hosted by kingsnake.com. I wanted to get some feedback before I spent the bucks. I am curious to see if kingsnake.com now says I have violated their terms of service. I read them well, and it simply said it is a violation to make posts: "...that merely say Look at my website." I did ask people to look at it, but certainly did so in a more complex manner than to "merely" ask them to do so. I asked for opinions about it, and whether or not they thought it worthwhile to be hosted by kingsnake.com. We will see if they will remove it. I don't think I violated their TOS, but time will tell, I guess. I'll let you know. Chances are though, with what you guys just explained in the more recent posts on this thread, I may not have to worry about that. If the webmaster at kingsnake.com comes to faunaclassifieds and reads any of the posts in this thread - we will all be banned from kingsnake.com for life (LOL). I think it certainly has taken a turn toward the dark side.

 

[Dwight Good]

Quite disturbing

just try to imagine what amazement (and horror) I felt when I clicked on the "Animal Issues" link and found a link to this article: Young mother nursed orphan pups

That is quite disturbing. Thanks for pointing out that link. Yeeeuch.

 

[HerpVenue]

I have a friend who puts the following in his add titles
! @ # % & * " " ( ) **

He gets a letter saying it is against some policy. and he gets his adds deleted.
So I go and check the classified adds on kingsnake... I checked the boa classifieds and found that there were 16 adds on the first page alone that violated said policy.

My friend brings it up to kingsnake gods...
He gets a long letter full of jargon blah blah blah it locks up the programs blah blah blah... and they do it on a case by case basis hmmm interesting.
They also tell him not to post the letter he just received on the forums....or he will get banned. They also tell him not to post the letter on the BOI or he will get banned.

Well there we go. The kingsnake gods have turned into the person they hate most.....Joe Polanco.

Say or post something incriminating towards them and you will get banned.

Kingsnake...with your new policies...I can see your downfall coming sooner or later.


Maybe the letter is so full of bull**** that they did not want to get caught spewing bull****.