Kingsnake.com... Again...

[WebSlave]

No Jason, you are talking about one thread among a large number of other ones that this site contains. One thread where it was obvious that the initiator of the thread was being pounded severely by the rest of the membership because they thought he was in the wrong. A thread that did not show anything much of consequence to a site the size of KS. There is nothing in this world that Adam Block could have done to even make a dent in KS, now is there?

So why did Jeff get heavy handed? Because he can?

Basically it boils down to Jeff banning even the mention of this site simply because I allow the people here the freedom to say what they want about whom they want. You feel that is right? You feel that Jeff is justified to ban anyone's site that has anything negative about his site on it? To REQUIRE people to only say nice things about him? What kind of BS is that?

Your analogy doesn't hold water. There never was any hard link to this site from anywhere on KS, as far as I know. What this is about is Jeff banning ANYONE within his message boards from even MENTIONING this site. Not even talking about direct links.

There is a pretty large thread somewhere on the BOI concerning JoeP. Many people laugh and chortle about his manner of running his message board where anything negative is deleted and people posting such messages getting banned. So tell me, what exactly is the difference between Jeff and JoeP? I'm having trouble figuring it out. Oh, I see. Money. That's the key isn't it? If you can earn money from someone or something that they control, then they are treated differently than someone whom is not earning you money with their site. Is that right? Shucks, why didn't I see that right away? So basically what we see here is that JoeP would be a good guy if only people were making money off of using his site. But since you are not, then he can be ridiculed for his actions and policies whereas with Jeff, the defense is that it's his site and he can do what he pleases there.

Kind of a blatant double standard if you ask me.

So tell me Jason, how would you react if I deleted all of the messages here that related to KS? And don't even try to tell me you wouldn't scream bloody murder. No, I'm not going to do that, but it IS my site, isn't it? Wanna bet you wouldn't be putting me and JoeP in the same category? If you accept that Jeff is right in the way he runs his site, you also have to accept that JoeP is correct in the way he manages his own site as well. You can't have it that one is right and the other wrong if they are both doing the identical thing.

IMHO.

 

[Rob Hill/Geckos Anonymous]

Jason,

I don't think it is the matter of the deleted links and banning of the BOI and FaunaClassifieds that is the problem. Also, this is a somewhat different situation than the one you thought up. For one, if I voluntarily put a link to your site on mine, then admittedly YES if you were talking unfounded garbage about me I would remove the link from my site. However, this isn't exactly the situation here. Jeff didn't place a link to the BOI on his site. He did not voluntarily say "hey, let's send some of my customers there." He merely allowed the people that use his site to post links to particular threads and to the site within their messages. That is different than me intentionally putting a link to your site from mine.

And although the banning of this site on kingsnake sucks, it is of course within Jeff's right to do so and I will not argue with him regarding that issue(kingsnake is Jeff's personal property after all). Like I said early on, until this series of threads, I had no idea that mention of this site was being allowed again on kingsnake at all. As far as I knew, the BOI and Fauna were still banned. That does not really matter that much, though.

Now, what I DO disagree with is the fact that Jeff called the owner of THIS site, Rich, and in so many words told him to remove a certain thread or else. In your situation above, had you actually posted those things about me on your site, I would definitely remove the link. No questions asked. However, I would NOT call you and tell you to remove it. I would not e-mail you and tell you to remove it. I would not threaten you with legal action if you did not remove it. It would be simple, you would be contacted that your link is being removed, your link would then be removed, and we would both move on. Jeff can ban Rich or Fauna or any person or site he wishes from any of his websites(kingsnake, pethobbyist, etc.) and even though I may not like it, it is HIS property after all and his right to do as he sees fit. I totally understand that idea and do not disagree with it one bit.

HOWEVER, he has NO right to tell another person what to do with their property and I think that is the cruxt of the matter here. The Original BOI and FaunaClassifieds are the property of one Rich Zuchowski. Jeff Barringer has no right or legal claim to this website. That would be like me walking into my neighbor's home and saying, "Hey, your dog was digging a hole in YOUR yard and I didn't like it. Get rid of him and fill the hole or I will sue." Tell me, did I have ANY right to tell them what to do with THEIR property or threaten them for an action that occured on THEIR property and not mine? NO. If they want the hole there, that is their business.

Maybe Jeff was having a bad day or was just ticked and went off half-cocked. Who knows, but either way I think it was uncalled for to make a threat against Rich or this site that way.
The same way that Rich would have no right to make threats to Jeff for things happening on kingsnake.

As I've always pointed out, I've never had a problem with kingsnake's service on my classified account and my few contacts with Jeff have been very professional and hopefully my posting here will not jeopardize my account status, but I do have to agree that Jeff's course of action regarding this issue was unnecessary.

 

[Classic Dum's]

As far as Joe P besides to take a few shots at him for trying to send me viruses via email I have no idea what happened there that thread moved way to fast for me to keep up.

So tell me Jason, how would you react if I deleted all of the messages here that related to KS?

I wouldn’t scream bloody murder I would just say you were the biggest hypocrite in the world if you did that but its your site so go ahead.

There is nothing in this world that Adam Block could have done to even make a dent in KS, now is there?

Its the principal of the matter, using my analogy of Robs site, would my actions really have that great of an effect on him. NO, but do you think for a second him or Rich L or just about anyone else for that matter would have left the links to my sites once I posted garbage like that about them? ABSOLUTLY NOT! I guarantee you those links would have come down the second they read it. Why would you direct your traffic to a place that slanders you.

You feel that is right?

Sure its your site.

To REQUIRE people to only say nice things about him?

He’s not requiring anything, he’s simply saying if your going to allow trash and slander about me I am not going to allow your links on my site. Fair is fair, if your site is doing as good as you say and you don’t need the traffic routed from his site to yours, I don’t see why this bothers you so much.

Rich answer me this, if you put a link on serpenco to my site and I started talking trash about you on my site. Would you leave the link there? Because its no different it doesn’t make a difference if I put the link there or you did. Because whether or not people want to realize it, just like you and I, Jeff is one man. Kingsnake is his site same as this and serpenco are yours and my dumerils site is mine. People have a bad habit because of the time we spend and effort we put into these forums of thinking they somehow belong to us. They don’t bottom line is they belong to someone else who is still human and I don’t care who you are you are NOT going to like seeing links on whats yours sending people to a place with threads like this or Adams. If on the front page of my site I had all this, Rich is an egomaniac and rips people off etc your not going to sell me banner ads. I guarantee it, if I emailed asking you for them if I was lucky enough to get a response, I know exactly what you would say “go to hell”.

 

[Seamus Haley]

Rich answer me this, if you put a link on serpenco to my site and I started talking trash about you on my site. Would you leave the link there? Because its no different it doesn’t make a difference if I put the link there or you did

The thing is... first off it is signifigantly different removing a link that a site owner had placed and banning any mention of another web-site, there are nuances of importance there.

Secondly... Rich never "slandered" (Libel, LIBEL LIBEL ! it's not accurate anyway since that requires that the information given be both false and given with malicious intent but how hard is it to F!@#ing remember that libel is written, slander spoken?!) the thread in question... which is not this one incidentally, was started by one Adam Block (who's name I may have just misspelled), contained true information without any lies and fully complaint with Rich's TOS agreement... full name, don't lie. For Jeff to take action against, and demand action from, Rich is inappropriate because Rich really had nothing to do with that issue until such a point as Jeff initiated contact and made some foolish and impossible to keep threats.

Adam didn't lie about or even misrepresent the situation.

Rich didn't get involved until Jeff contacted him.

Jeff is the only person who has really added to the ever growing public sentiment that he has no ability to make rational decisions.

 

[HerpVenue]

Lets here more about this, see some examples. These are just general accusations that anyone could apply to anyone, how do you think phone physcics make their living, general accusations that could apply to anyone. So lets here some more about this.

In due time my young Jedi.
It is deeper than I even thought it was.
so I will let things play out. Let things appear on their own.
Then we can come back on this thread and see who is right, wrong, an inocent bystander, who cried wolf....etc etc etc

So I will be going on vacation in three(3) days.
You guys behave yourselves.
let me know if anything exciting happens while I am gone.

 

[Classic Dum's]

In due time my young Jedi.

LMAO!!! Hey now that was a good movie, I cant wait for the next although it sucksa as it will be the last chapter.
Anyway

The thing is... first off it is signifigantly different removing a link that a site owner had placed and banning any mention of another web-site

No its no differant, its still a link on one persons site that leads that persons traffic to a place that has slander/bull about them.

Rich never "slandered"

I never said he did. Libel, slander what ever.

Adam didn't lie about or even misrepresent the situation.

Oh bull and he didnt lie or missrepresent that situation with me either. YEAH RIGHT! Plain and simple, whether its Jeff you or I posting the link here its all the same. Its still a link directing traffic from Jeffs site to one that has slanderous material about him. So who put the dang on link there doesnt matter. As far as this conversation, like I said before I didnt hear same as everything else on this board i take what I read with a grain of salt. Jeff never came straight out and said he was going to sue anyone. Rich says he implied it, rich, yours and my definition of an implied lawsuit I am sure are 3 differant things. Theres nothing wrong with Jeff asking it be removed. Just as Rich has the right to talk about it here, Jeff has the right to call and ask it be removed. Of course its Richs decision to rewmove or leave it he choose to leave it thats all fine and dandy. But as far as anything else I didnt hear the conversation nor did you.

 

[WebSlave]

From Jason Sweigart:

Rich answer me this, if you put a link on serpenco to my site and I started talking trash about you on my site. Would you leave the link there? Because its no different it doesn’t make a difference if I put the link there or you did. Because whether or not people want to realize it, just like you and I, Jeff is one man. Kingsnake is his site same as this and serpenco are yours and my dumerils site is mine. People have a bad habit because of the time we spend and effort we put into these forums of thinking they somehow belong to us. They don’t bottom line is they belong to someone else who is still human and I don’t care who you are you are NOT going to like seeing links on whats yours sending people to a place with threads like this or Adams. If on the front page of my site I had all this, Rich is an egomaniac and rips people off etc your not going to sell me banner ads. I guarantee it, if I emailed asking you for them if I was lucky enough to get a response, I know exactly what you would say “go to hell”.

Apples and oranges, Jason. First off, my SerpenCo site does not accept any links or banner ads from anyone. There is no message board on it any longer, and hasn't been for quite some time. I have no idea why you would use that site as your example since it is completely out of context with this discussion. But if you had used THIS site in your example (now I guess it was just an accident you chose it this way, hmmm?), you would have been blown out of the water. I have in the past, and do now, allow posts, links and banner ads that go anywhere or reference anything anyone cares to. FaunaTopSites is my site and I have absolutely no restrictions on whom puts their links there as long as the sites are related to fauna in some manner. I have no fear of someone saying something bad about me or my sites ANYWHERE. Maybe some of those links do go to sites like that, but why should I care? The benefit of having a good reputation is that when you do so, the person making the accusations is then looked at suspiciously by those people in the know. Even those people whom might not know the truth will eventually discover it and it will just turn against you sooner or later.

Quite frankly, Jason, I would not care in the least if you wanted to take out a banner ad and had your site called BOI-SUCKS.COM all made up and open for business. Because I am confident that there isn't a darn thing you could do to affect me in the least. All it would do is to make you look foolish, and I am perfectly willing to take your money in order to allow you to do that. Jeff has to know that about Adam's threat as well. So why did he fly off the handle about it? Maybe there is just more to this than meets the eye, eh?

I have accepted banner ads from websites that were directly competing with this one. I could not care less. I have had people post on this and previous versions saying unkind things about this site. I could not care less. In the original version of the BOI (which I still have, by the way, just haven't put it back up) someone started a thread that was rather unkind about me personally. I did not delete it. I didn't have to.

Making your analogy a little closer to the truth, suppose you had a message board on your site and someone said some unkind things about my site. After all, the situation here was not what I was saying, but what someone else was saying on my site. In such a case, you would feel comfortable with me calling you up and demanding that you remove those messages? You wouldn't have a problem with me telling you what to do with your site? Suppose the entire bedrock of the existence of your theoretical message board was that it allowed people the freedom to say what they want? Since you would unlikely have any way of verifying the truth of the matter of what the poster on YOUR message board is saying nor what I am claiming, you wouldn't be just a teensy pissed that I put you in the position of choosing one or the other? Think of it this way: Wouldn't that demand be tantamount to an attempt to discredit the integrity of your site? THAT is the choice you would have to make, now isn't it?

In Jeff's case, he is blocking the ability of people to mention this site in PUBLIC message boards run on his site. Let me repeat part of that: PUBLIC message boards.

(Let's chop off your argument before you can even start it, shall we? No his message board is NOT a private message board. It is open to the public and is therefore PUBLIC. Just as there are rules to how you can conduct yourself on a public street or in a public building, the fact that there are rules does not make it any less public.)

He is restricting what people say because of a personal dislike or issue with what I allow on my own board. He has not deleted any links except what someone else may have posted freely in one of those PUBLIC message boards. Nothing I did violated any TOS of his site. Nothing THEY are doing by posting those links or text strings are a violation of any TOS either. I have NEVER seen anything in a KS TOS that said "You cannot post something on the message forums that the owner does not like. These will be determined based on the mood of the moment and subject to change without warning. You will not know until after the fact whether you are in violation of this rule. Any changes to this rule can be applied retroactively." And I DARE you to show me a section of a KS TOS that says "Your site will be banned from this site if anyone posts something uncomplimentary to this site and you refuse to remove it upon request."

Oh yeah, while I am thinking of it: When Jeff demanded that I remove Adam Block's thread, I did tell him that if he got a court order demanding that I remove the thread, I would then, and only then, comply. This is exactly what I told JoeP when he demanded that I remove the thread about him. Basically what this means is that if someone can prove in a court of law that what someone has posted on this board is definitely libel, I will remove it, which I believe would be the correct thing to do. But I will NOT do so just on someone's say so or threat to take ME to court because of it.

Ok, Jason, it's pretty much on record how you feel about KS, and I'm glad for you. But either you are purposely fudging your understanding of the facts, or you REALLY do not understand what is being stated in this and other threads. This is an ethics issue, not a property rights issue. If Jeff wants to ban Adam Block from his site, then I see no problem with his decision to do so, but what does that have to do with THIS site? Jeff and KS hace been subject of quite a few threads over the last 2+ years. So what makes this one by Adam so special in Jeff's eyes? What is going on in the background that has changed the ground rules in his eyes?

 

[WebSlave]

Oh bull and he didnt lie or missrepresent that situation with me either. YEAH RIGHT! Plain and simple, whether its Jeff you or I posting the link here its all the same. Its still a link directing traffic from Jeffs site to one that has slanderous material about him. So who put the dang on link there doesnt matter. As far as this conversation, like I said before I didnt hear same as everything else on this board i take what I read with a grain of salt. Jeff never came straight out and said he was going to sue anyone. Rich says he implied it, rich, yours and my definition of an implied lawsuit I am sure are 3 differant things. Theres nothing wrong with Jeff asking it be removed. Just as Rich has the right to talk about it here, Jeff has the right to call and ask it be removed. Of course its Richs decision to rewmove or leave it he choose to leave it thats all fine and dandy. But as far as anything else I didnt hear the conversation nor did you.

Yup it always does my heart good to hear someone imply that I am lying. Jason it is perfectly OK for you to like KS so much, but don't let it color your judgement so much that you will bitch slap someone else with an accusation of lying in order to support your point. Everyone realizes that the only way your point is supportable within your mind is if you believe I am not telling the truth of this matter. I am sorry you put yourself into this position.

If you actually and truly believe for even one millisecond that I am lying or in any way stretching the truth of this matter, then you really have no business being on a site like this that I am responsible for. You are making a fool of yourself and embarrassing me in the process. Your ONLY reason for being here is to defend KS, and it's pretty darned obvious to everyone reading this stuff.

I know exactly what you are up to Jason.

 

[WebSlave]

LOL LOL LOL LOL!!!!!!

This is great!! Thank you for the tip my friend!!

Kingsnake.com
Christmas Contest Winners

42" Gateway™ Plasma TV - J. Sweigart

Wow, nothing like personal bias, now is there Jason?

I rest my case.

 

[Uffern]

Is this true Jason? If it is, then you have lost all credibility.

Hey! I will brown nose Jeff for a 42" Plasma screen TV.
*polishes nose in preperation (H) to brown nose* How about it Jeff? Send me a TV, and I will make a fool, er, defend you as well.

 

[Rob Hill/Geckos Anonymous]

LOLOL

Sorry for being off topic Webslave, but that is TOO freaking funny!
I will admit that I am not the first to jump down kingsnake's throat(never had a problem personally), but I have voiced what I disagree with in Jeff's actions regarding the Adam Block thread(sorry about my confusion, it's hard to keep up with who started what after it hits the 10 page mark ).
But Jason, you had BETTER keep up the fight dude, or you might not get your free TV!!!

I think getting a free TV from them does indeed sway your personal views a good bit and INDEED we will have to take your vehement defense of kingsnake here with a big grain of salt.

But on another note, CONGRATULATIONS!!! I entered that contest too and didn't win, glad to see someone did after all

 

[Dianne Johnson]

I haven't kept up with all these threads regarding KS - hell, I don't have time to since my pc access is at work. However, from what I have read, and in my opinion, Jeff is in the wrong in regards to banning any links or mention of the BOI, especially since it is such a valuable tool to the industry. So he doesnt' like one thread, join the club of everyone else on the BOI who's treated a client wrongly. Realistically, the banning - or the rest of his b.s. - isn't a surprise to me any longer. Jeff has a proven track record of flying off the handle without any forethought, and often erratic reasoning for the rules and inforcement thereof. While I still go to KS and participate in the forums because of those good people left, it is not near to the degree I have in the past because of the atmosphere there now. The moderators delete posts on a whim based on their feelings and not facts, the TOS isn't inforced with any consistency or fairness, and the prices are climbing for their services without the quality of service improving. There are those members that, like Jason, will defend KS to the bitter end, regardless of factual evidence. For myself, like many others, I prefer to look at the big picture and not just one narrow view of it. Anyone who believes that Jeff has ANY right to dictate what Rich, or anyone for that matter, puts on THEIR OWN site is obviously either brain-washed or small-minded. If he is banning mention of any other site (which by the way, is JUST this site, other posts do have links to competing sites), then he has something to hide. Goodness knows I'll never post any animals I have for sale there because of the inconsistency in the moderation of the forums or classifieds, much less all the other b.s. Personally, I'd love to know what's behind the smoke and mirrors.

Okay, that's my .03 cents. I'm heading home to fix dinner and play with my snakes.

Dianne

 

[Dianne Johnson]

Footnote:

Hmmm. I guess if I won a plasma tv, it might color my opinion too - Not.

Dianne

 

[Classic Dum's]

But if you had used THIS site in your example (now I guess it was just an accident you chose it this way, hmmm?), you would have been blown out of the water.

First off stop implying stuff thats why I dont trust you and why I dont just take your word about that conversation like you think I should just because you run this site. Was it any more an accident that I used Robs site or mine as examples??

you would have been blown out of the water.

and what do you mean by that, is that like oh my back up is going to come get you or something??

I have accepted banner ads from websites that were directly competing with this one. I could not care less.

I know and as I have said before your opinion comes from that of a hobbyist not making a living from this site.

I could not care less. In the original version of the BOI (which I still have, by the way, just haven't put it back up) someone started a thread that was rather unkind about me personally. I did not delete it. I didn't have to.

Yes I know I was there lik eI said if you look at that version youll see I was the 2nd or 3rd person to ever post there of course about Matt Martin.

In such a case, you would feel comfortable with me calling you up and demanding that you remove those messages?

Thats your right as a free american to call me up and say hey man look thats absolute bull****, could ya pull it because theres nothing true in there.

Suppose the entire bedrock of the existence of your theoretical message board was that it allowed people the freedom to say what they want

I never once said you should pull any of these, leaving here is fine its staying true to what you believe. But I dont blame anyone for asking you to remove a thread espacially when its by a known trouble maker like Adam.

Just as there are rules to how you can conduct yourself on a public street or in a public building,

Sorry you are going to have to do better then that to chop it off. We pay taxes for those public buildings and streets you speak of. Last time I checked none of my taxes were going for the up keep of kingsnake. Kingsnake is NOT public, nor is this site, you allow it to be but it is NOT my property

I did tell him that if he got a court order demanding that I remove the thread

So whos to say you didnt also instigate what you call an implied threat of being sued?

Jeff and KS hace been subject of quite a few threads over the last 2+ years.

Well hell ya a site that large I am sure these been a few people he just couldn’t please. Do you think every single registered user on this site prefers to shop at Walmart? Do you think they all flock to K-mart NO! I am sure hes got more classified accounts then you have registered users. How many of your users have you had problems with? Disagreements? a few, well lets multiply that number by 10 then well start adding in all the banner ads, various links and 10 million others ways you can advertise on kingsnake. You’ve never seen volume like that Rich, NEVER. Now if your site was that large and extremely understaffed would you kiss the ass of every problem maker, thus limiting the time you can take care of the 1000's of happier customers that dont cause problems. Or when you have a couple of Adam Blocks, Joe P, John Starkskys, etc just get rid of the problems so you can concentrate and make a better environment for the pleasant customers? What would you do, spend all day trying to explain something to irate problems makers who will never get it anyway because their original goal was to create trouble and blow off all the decent people. Or would you get rid of the problem and take care of the decent people. Now Rich imagine you this site is as large as kingsnake its your soul source of income and you have 1000's upon 1000's of paying customers, Not the what 1000? users you have here and what 10-20? people running banners.

Oh bull and he didnt lie or missrepresent that situation with me either. YEAH RIGHT!

That comment there I was talking abou Adam not you so where you get this im accusing you of lying from is beyond me.

If you actually and truly believe for even one millisecond that I am lying or in any way stretching the truth of this matter,

Rich when you get in here and have to pull weight as the "webslave" such as earlier, thats great Ill respect your position and treat you the same as I would any other web master. When you offer opinions and get involved in threads like this one, I am sorry if it bothers you so much but in my opinion your just like the rest of us. So get in the trenchs and get dirty, I look at you just like anyone here. I do not and will not hold you with any higher regaurd then any one else here if you are not playing the part of the webslave. IMO thats my way of staying far and treating everyone the same I dont run with the cliches in these forums nor do I run with the group mentality, that much you gotta respect me for.

Your ONLY reason for being here is to defend KS

Nope I know I have NEVER taken part in any other threads nor discussions concerning other topics. Come on Rich you can do better then that.

Is this true Jason? If it is, then you have lost all credibility.

Yes it is true I did win that TV, my veiws have ABSOLUTLY NOTHING do with that. I have stood them SAME ground on this topic long before I took part in that contest and will long after. You go look through the other threads dating back as far as Rich has updated the BOI and youll see. I have taken part in alomst everyone and my veiws have not changed

Wow, nothing like personal bias, now is there Jason?

Rich dont try to pawn me off so easily you know I have stood this same ground for as long as these threads have popped up. That hasnt changed at all! So go ahead with the group mentallity and pawn off what I have to say because of that.

 

[Uffern]

If Jeff has so many more classifieds than Fauna has members, and at last count that was somewhere around 3000 members, then Jeff must have, say, 5000 classified accounts. That's 5000 times $50. what's that? $250,000 a year on just classifieds? Not to mention hosting and the money he gets for putting someone's link on the front page. Yep. It really sounds like he is hurting to me. With the way you talk about it, I would think Jeff might have easily twice that number of classified account holders. He obviously makes enough money to give away a $3000 TV. Man, it must be about competition. Rich must be so close to toppling the KS empire, that Jeff feels he must combat this ultimate threat in any way he can.

There is one 42" plasma skeleton out in the open. I can't wait to see what other ones turn up.

 

[WebSlave]

Say Jason, how did you vote in that poll Seamus put in the BOI recently? You know, the one entitled " Kingsnake, now you know you have to read it..."

Just curious.....

(Anyone taking bets on whether he will answer this, much less tell us what his vote was?)

Thanks for the chuckle. Best laugh I have had in at least a week.

 

[Seamus Haley]

There are those members that, like Jason, will defend KS to the bitter end, regardless of factual evidence. For myself, like many others, I prefer to look at the big picture and not just one narrow view of it. Anyone who believes that Jeff has ANY right to dictate what Rich, or anyone for that matter, puts on THEIR OWN site is obviously either brain-washed or small-minded

Forty two inches of high definition plasma isn't a big enough picture Dianne?

I suspect at this juncture that Jason has the biggest picture view of anyone who posts on these boards... Certainly the biggest non-projection picture view anyway.

 

[Tony]

It is kind of funny seeing all this talk about kingsnake. I was banned from kingsnake back in September. I was one of the first people to post badly about Jeff. Almost no one supported my thoughts on kingsnake at that time. Now, to no surprise, people are being banned left and right. Jason was probably the most against me back then. Looks like he still loves Jeff. And as far as Jason saying that Kingsnake should not have to deal with problem customers is wrong. In any bussiness you have to deal with complaints and problems. Life would be easy if we could just make all of our problems just disappear. There are tons of con artists on kingsnake that do not get banned because they don't complain. And Ritchie Luna I never got my emails answered either, so don't feel left out. Even after I apologized to Jeff, I was still ignored. I have realized now that you have to kiss Jeff's a** from the start if you expect any fairness. I am verry happy to see all this about Kingsnake and Jeff Barringer. He is finally getting what he deserves. Looks like people are starting to realize how he treats his customers. Good Luck with the BOI, it is 100 times better than kingsnake. Oh yea and if anyone cares how I voted on the kingsnake poll, it was "I disagree with everything Jeff does." I can't agree with a person with an attitude like his. Thanks.

Tony Alles

 

[WebSlave]

Another quote from Jason Sweigart:

Rich when you get in here and have to pull weight as the "webslave" such as earlier, thats great Ill respect your position and treat you the same as I would any other web master. When you offer opinions and get involved in threads like this one, I am sorry if it bothers you so much but in my opinion your just like the rest of us. So get in the trenchs and get dirty, I look at you just like anyone here. I do not and will not hold you with any higher regaurd then any one else here if you are not playing the part of the webslave. IMO thats my way of staying far and treating everyone the same I dont run with the cliches in these forums nor do I run with the group mentality, that much you gotta respect me for.

Well pray tell whom exactly should I respond to this as? This was about KS and Jeff in relation to something done TO FaunaClassifieds.com and the BOI. That, in case you didn't realize it, is WebSlave's turf. Why do you think I, as WebSlave, shouldn't have an opinion or get involved in something that affects ME as webmaster of THIS site? I'm sorry, but there are a few teeth missing in the gears of logic you are using.

And no you don't have to hold me in any higher regard, Jason. You yourself claim you have been checking in to the BOI since it's inception. Matter of fact you are using this as a badge of credibility as to what you are saying here. So in all this time, you haven't gotten a feel for how I handle the truth? You haven't made note of what I have said here over the last two years and what sort of integrity I might have developed in doing so? Where are the samples of lies I have told that are leading you to believe that this is just another one?

Let's see if we can salvage some credibility for you here. You are inferring that I must be lying, plain and simple, because what I have said about Jeff is unbelievable to you. So let's look at the points and try to understand why you would think that way.

I have stated that Jeff called me on the phone and demanded that I remove the thread by Adam Block. Ok, so either it happened or it didn't. Agreed? If it did, then I am telling the truth, if it didn't them I am lying. The only proof I have is that Jeff emailed me earlier that day asking me to call him. I keep ALL of my emails except obvious SPAM. Unfortunately he called me before I got around to checking my email, otherwise I would have a phone bill to prove to you. How about this? I can take a digital image of my caller ID with his name, number and I think the date is on there as well. I don't think it has been erased. How about that? Or even without hard evidence, do you believe that it is unbelievable that Jeff would call me and demand that I remove that thread? I am defining 'demand' as the words 'Rich, I want you to delete that thread.' Of course this isn't verbatim, but I think it is close enough. It is more unbelievable to you that Jeff would call and make such a demand than I would just make it up, is that it?

Next, I stated that Jeff mentioned that he was going to take Adam to federal court and there was a possibility that I would get named in that lawsuit as well. Heck, there's no way I can prove this, but perhaps you could just ask Jeff yourself. I'm sure you are not shy about talking to him, now are you? Ask him and let us know what he said. And again, which do you think is more likely; that Jeff actually did say what I said he did, or I just made it up for the hell of it?

Let's see, it wasn't that long of a conversation, so what is next on the list? Oh yeah, I said that when he was ending the conversation, Jeff said that because I would not remove that thread from my site, he was banning the BOI from being mentioned on his site. Well, gee, this is going to he the hardest of them all to prove, now isn't it? It's just a coincidence that no one can now enter 'BOI' or 'FAUNACLASSIFIEDS' into any of the forums, now isn't it? And I just happened to be able to fortunately make this whole story up coincidentally at this time.

Did I forget anything, Jason? Give me some more details and let's see what is more believable. It is much more believable to you that I would make something like this up than Jeff actually did what I said he did? How so? By what sort of evidence are you judging what I say to be a lie? Tell us all what that evidence is, please so we can all share in your perspective. Heck, maybe I'm lying and don't even know it. Stranger things have happened, I guess.

And one other point before I go.

Now if your site was that large and extremely understaffed would you kiss the ass of every problem maker, thus limiting the time you can take care of the 1000's of happier customers that dont cause problems. Or when you have a couple of Adam Blocks, Joe P, John Starkskys, etc just get rid of the problems so you can concentrate and make a better environment for the pleasant customers? What would you do, spend all day trying to explain something to irate problems makers who will never get it anyway because their original goal was to create trouble and blow off all the decent people. Or would you get rid of the problem and take care of the decent people.

So the end justifies the means, eh Jason? So being defined as 'troublemaker' is also someone whom won't jump to do Jeff's bidding and delete threads from his own site? Seems to me that the definition is constantly expanding.

Hey, how's that big screen? Really cool, I'll bet.

 

[Casey Hulse]

Just answer this very plain and simple rhetorical question, Jason: Is Party A justified in banning Party B's site from being mentioned on Party A's site when Party B (the owner of said site) refuses to delete a thread that Party A doesn't like on Party B's site?

Jason, Here is a question posed to you quite some time ago, perhaps you feel like answering it now. It is a question of personal integrity and ethics.