kingsnake.com Bad Business practices.

[Suncoast Herpetological]

I seriously doubt that the new rule has anything to do with protecting buyers. I'll just leave it at that.

I agree completely that the main impetus for this initiative was to limit their own liability.

However, if it also happens to protect consumers then who cares what the initial motivation was?

Bottom line is that it is a major step in a great direction.

 

[homegrownherps]

In those situations the business owner/sole proprietor is in possession of their own cert and responsible for any fraud or misuse that may come from someone else illegally using the info on it.

If KS has a copy of it in their possession, be it physical or online, then they become responsible for keeping it secure as well. A lawsuit waiting to happen.

Besides, it aint illegal for an individual without a certificate to sell something. You think you have to have a cert to sell your car? Or place an ad in the newspaper for the $2500 bowflex machine or old bicycle collecting dust in the basement? Or have a garage sale? Or even to sell a baby snake or puppy that one of your animals gave birth to?

Here in Florida, if you want to sell a single corn snake, (or any exotic) and place an add in the paper, you need the license to sell. Even if it is just one.
As far as Garage/Yard sales ...some places require you get a permit.
And there is a limit to how many you can have each year ... where I used to live it was three per year, more than that may be considered a business.

 

[jsrocket]

In those situations the business owner/sole proprietor is in possession of their own cert and responsible for any fraud or misuse that may come from someone else illegally using the info on it.

If KS has a copy of it in their possession, be it physical or online, then they become responsible for keeping it secure as well. A lawsuit waiting to happen.

Besides, it aint illegal for an individual without a certificate to sell something. You think you have to have a cert to sell your car? Or place an ad in the newspaper for the $2500 bowflex machine or old bicycle collecting dust in the basement? Or have a garage sale? Or even to sell a baby snake or puppy that one of your animals gave birth to?

Further, as far as I know, there is nothing to prevent anyone from having multiple DBAs. One could do business as Big Deal reptiles, scam people, then file a new DBA as Jack Schitt Reptiles, scam them again, etc.

As John Schmitt said, it does provide a paper trail to the owner, but that system is simply too slow to provide any satisfaction to those who got ripped.

And, even if a victim does get a judgment, collecting is the hardest part of all.

Maybe KS has a system in place, to prevent this (I wouldn't know), but this is a standard procedure for scammers.

 

[Jim O]

Further, as far as I know, there is nothing to prevent anyone from having multiple DBAs. One could do business as Big Deal reptiles, scam people, then file a new DBA as Jack Schitt Reptiles, scam them again, etc.

As John Schmitt said, it does provide a paper trail to the owner, but that system is simply too slow to provide any satisfaction to those who got ripped.

And, even if a victim does get a judgment, collecting is the hardest part of all.

Maybe KS has a system in place, to prevent this (I wouldn't know), but this is a standard procedure for scammers.

Not only that but a corporate entity can have dozens of fictitious names and be even harder to track down as they may have their registered agent be a non-existent person at a PO Box.

 

[shrap]

Here in Florida, if you want to sell a single corn snake, (or any exotic) and place an add in the paper, you need the license to sell. Even if it is just one.
As far as Garage/Yard sales ...some places require you get a permit.
And there is a limit to how many you can have each year ... where I used to live it was three per year, more than that may be considered a business.

Here in Florida you say.... that brings up another great point. Here in Indiana you can have a yard sale 365 days a year. You can fix cars out of your garage, list goods in the paper, sell jewelry that you hand made door to door. All without a permit of any kind. It is when you pass a specific dollar amount (dont recal the exact amount off the top of my head) in income that you have to start reporting it to the state for income and sales tax.

I think you will find that every state has varying laws on this subject. Should KS be responsible for knowing 50 different state's laws on an individual (not a business) selling something? Should Fauna? And since the vast majority of internet sales are out of state, exactly what local laws cover that? Doesnt that flip over to the "you dont collect sales tax for out of state sales"? It is just a matter of reporting income at that point.

Again, it is not against the law for an individual to sell something without a permit. If it was then you can bet your backside that KS would be requiring a permit from everyone.

 

[evansnakes]

The reality, like it or not, and I am not really taking sides as this doesn't concern me much (I have been using my name to sell under for as long as I have been selling animals), is that Kingsnake is the big dog in the biz. It is the top site in the niche market. So your options are limited. You can choose to bite your lip and use the site or you can pass on the opportunity to get the most exposure in this industry and not use the site. I had problems with policies of the site in the past, now I use it to post animals for sale and look at pretty pictures on the forums. If I sell enough product to make me happy with the $100 yearly account I will use the site.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

I think you will find that every state has varying laws on this subject. Should KS be responsible for knowing 50 different state's laws on an individual (not a business) selling something? Should Fauna? And since the vast majority of internet sales are out of state, exactly what local laws cover that? Doesnt that flip over to the "you dont collect sales tax for out of state sales"? It is just a matter of reporting income at that point.

Again, it is not against the law for an individual to sell something without a permit. If it was then you can bet your backside that KS would be requiring a permit from everyone.

Agreed Sammy but if they were to require a copy of a driver's license from each individual posting ads under their own name it would pretty much eliminate the shady types doing business under a phony name overnight.

Every State issues driver's licenses.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

And by the way, I definitely think that this thread should be moved to the General Business Discussions Forum. The title is inflammatory and fundamentally incorrect.

 

[shrap]

Every State issues driver's licenses.

Even to countless thousands they shouldnt.

I do want to make a retraction on one thing I said earlier. If you are going door to door selling something, vending at flea markets, or temporary expos (like reptile expos, computer expos, gun expos, etc), even selling flowers at the bottom of an off ramp.... Indiana does require you to have a vendors license. But everything else is pretty much dead on.

 

[bigman466]

I'm sure some of you have Ks.com accounts and have been bombarded with emails notifying that you can't post using a business name till you verify your business through Kingsnake's verification process.
They state this is to protect customers. That's all good an fine and online herp customers deserve protection.

For those of you who haven't been lucky enough to receive these emails, the above explains the situation pretty well. I'm ok with ALL of the above.
But Today I get a message notifying me that I can no longer use my website name or logo in my ads. My website and logo are my virtual property and they shouldn't dictate whether I can refer to my website, my logo or not.

That was my last straw from Kingsnake, and I'll not be using them once my current paid account expires.
I would like to see other concerned folks email Ks.com and let them know how you feel about this. Their address to discuss this topic is
[email protected]
Here's the sentence pragmens they emailed to notify me.
"Cannot list a business name without the name being verified as a legally registered business. This includes in the body of the ad and the logo at the end:"

I may be over-reacting but I am (was) their loyal customer and I have this great forum to voice my opions on my dealings in the reptile world.

Well what it all balls down to is money.Kingsnake is going to do anything an everything to fine a way to make more money for them.As far as them saying to protect there customers.Thats a crap What they need to work on is CUSTOMER SERVICE, because it SUCKS.You need help with something are have a question.Takes 2 weeks for them to reply not good service there

 

[homegrownherps]

Well what it all balls down to is money.Kingsnake is going to do anything an everything to fine a way to make more money for them.As far as them saying to protect there customers.Thats a crap What they need to work on is CUSTOMER SERVICE, because it SUCKS.You need help with something are have a question.Takes 2 weeks for them to reply not good service there

I can't complain about their customer service, considering the amount of emails they must get.
When ever I have contacted them with a question or concern, they have always returned an email with in a day or so.

 

[bigman466]

I can't complain about their customer service, considering the amount of emails they must get.
When ever I have contacted them with a question or concern, they have always returned an email with in a day or so.

WOW,Thats great news !!!

 

[Wraith]

Well what it all balls down to is money.Kingsnake is going to do anything an everything to fine a way to make more money for them.As far as them saying to protect there customers.Thats a crap What they need to work on is CUSTOMER SERVICE, because it SUCKS.You need help with something are have a question.Takes 2 weeks for them to reply not good service there

Now that is not true. They have always responded to me within a day or two - NOT WEEKS - unless you are emailing the wrong person. You don't email the site coordinator or ceo or photo gallery person about classified stuff... you email the classified abuse coordinator about classified stuff.

And as to it all boiling down to making more money.. please explain that to me. One does NOT have to pay to become a registered business on the site. There is no money involved. And don't say it's all the money coming from those few people with multiple businesses having to buy extra accounts for each business, that's BS.. that particular policy has been in effect for some number of years.

 

[bcherps]

Hey All,

I personally have to give a big thumbs down to Kingsnake's professionalism and customer service. On several instances I have blatant scammers cornered on thier ads and kingsnake said and did nothing. When I had scammers contact me through the site repeatedly Kingsnake said and did nothing. When they had a problem with the way I price balls the first email out of Jeff Barringer was a threat. And last year when they were giving out free shirts at Daytona then gave my helper some B.S. about him already getting a shirt when he hadn't left my table all day.

I am glad to no longer help line Jeff's pockets.

Thanks
ben cole

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

In six years with an account, i have never had any real issue with their customer service. Emails are usually returned prompltly. I have had one or two questions about ads they have pulled over the years. A couple of times theyy stayed pulled. Once, they agreed with me and changed their minds.

 

[mrbommarito]

I noticed that many of the people complaining are some of the people that helped make Kingsnake such a huge monopoly.

It is simply ran by people that will cancel your account if you look at them the wrong way or if your opinion differs from theirs.

The problem is that they have become so big that many people almost need them to be successful and Kingsnake knows it.

Most of us are here because we love the hobby and to like make a couple dollars doing it, some of us make a living this way. If Kingsnake decides to take your privileges because your opinion differed from theirs then those that make a living selling online are affected in a huge way.

My question is, has anyone thought about how much money Kingsnake makes? I'm thinking that they may make more then any breeder out there. They must have about 500 businesses listed on their index page, at $150 a year that is around $75,000 that businesses are spending just to have a link to their site. If that is what they make just for having links on their site, imagine how much they make in advertising?

There is money to make in the reptile business other then just selling live animals. Many people have tried building sites that have not been as effective but all that I have seen are completely different then the blue print Kingsnake has shown us. Now I don't mean for someone to copy Kingsnake but to follow a similar path. If I had the smarts and money to build a website I would have one that would rival or beat out Kingsnake. I bring this up in the forums because there is a network of very intelligent people here. Also, having “real” competition would keep websites humble and consistently evolving for the betterment of the hobby.

What do you guys think?

 

[Wraith]

I noticed that many of the people complaining are some of the people that helped make Kingsnake such a huge monopoly.

It is simply ran by people that will cancel your account if you look at them the wrong way or if your opinion differs from theirs.

The problem is that they have become so big that many people almost need them to be successful and Kingsnake knows it.

Most of us are here because we love the hobby and to like make a couple dollars doing it, some of us make a living this way. If Kingsnake decides to take your privileges because your opinion differed from theirs then those that make a living selling online are affected in a huge way.

My question is, has anyone thought about how much money Kingsnake makes? I'm thinking that they may make more then any breeder out there. They must have about 500 businesses listed on their index page, at $150 a year that is around $75,000 that businesses are spending just to have a link to their site. If that is what they make just for having links on their site, imagine how much they make in advertising?

There is money to make in the reptile business other then just selling live animals. Many people have tried building sites that have not been as effective but all that I have seen are completely different then the blue print Kingsnake has shown us. Now I don't mean for someone to copy Kingsnake but to follow a similar path. If I had the smarts and money to build a website I would have one that would rival or beat out Kingsnake. I bring this up in the forums because there is a network of very intelligent people here. Also, having “real” competition would keep websites humble and consistently evolving for the betterment of the hobby.

What do you guys think?

And do you know how much money it costs to up keep equipment and software techs and bandwith and all that stuff for a site as big as that? It is not cheap.

 

[mrbommarito]

I'm sure that there is ALOT more money coming in then there is going out.

 

[kbmxc]

I hate kingsnake. They are a bunch of a-holes. I don't have a problem with the legit business thing brought up in this thread but almost every other aspect of their site makes me ill. They delete posts that could protect consumers so that they can protect their advertisers or themselves. They keep using an ancient forum layout so that you have to click every freakin' message so they can sell those clicks to advertisers. I have had an account in the past but I hate giving them anything that keeps them in business. I'll advertise here eventually but I don't really care for the fact that so many resellers flood the classifieds and constantly bump their ads all day long.

Kenny Banks

 

[DThomas]

I highly doubt that a scammer will have access to multiple checking accounts in different names or multiple credit cards in different names with which to register the account under.

You are very naive if you believe that. Your average run of the mill tweaker usually is in possession of hundreds when they are arrested. Your more sophisticated criminal has access to thousands or tens of thousands. It's quite easy to get the information.