Bad Guy Kingsnake.com/Jeff Barringer/ Bad business!! Legal?

[Spectrum Reptiles]

Barry, if you want to share those facts - this thread is not the place to do it

Sorry Harald. I understand. I'm done and not going to share anything because it's like a bunch of children who have their minds made up, think they know everything, and want to bully in order to make themselves look more righteous. Again, sorry, I'll leave it at that, and I'm done also.........

Barry

 

[WebSlave]

why do you think that personal attacks on people constantly are ok on here. that is not what this site is designed for. if you are retired then you should have plenty of time to think up intelligent responses to posts instead of just constantly pushing arguments further and further. seems to me you act more like a 17 year old high school girl than a retired adult man. Get a life or a second hobby. Something that will occupy you. People wonder why the boi may be going away and the sad part is all they have to do is look at members like you and they have their answer.

Sorry, but this time (which has been rather rare lately) I have to side with Chuck. These are not PERSONAL issues at all being brought up and elaborated on. These are concerns having to do with BUSINESS transactions in the past concerning actions by a webmaster of another site, and also, by inference, choices people may want to make in the future concerning direct sales from the target of the question. There was an incident in the past that the courts deemed as illegal, and quite likely people would want to know more about those details in relation to the topic of this thread.

I have stated in the recent past that I am determined to cut back the amount of PERSONAL attacks and such that take place on the BOI, so trust me, if I agreed with this assessment, Chuck would likely already be banned right now. But I have read this thread, and although I would prefer it to be a bit less antagonistic, unfortunately the topic matter involved is going to inevitably force the discussion into that direction.

 

[Spectrum Reptiles]

Sorry, but this time (which has been rather rare lately) I have to side with Chuck. These are not PERSONAL issues at all being brought up and elaborated on. These are concerns having to do with BUSINESS transactions in the past concerning actions by a webmaster of another site, and also, by inference, choices people may want to make in the future concerning direct sales from the target of the question. There was an incident in the past that the courts deemed as illegal, and quite likely people would want to know more about those details in relation to the topic of this thread.

I have stated in the recent past that I am determined to cut back the amount of PERSONAL attacks and such that take place on the BOI, so trust me, if I agreed with this assessment, Chuck would likely already be banned right now. But I have read this thread, and although I would prefer it to be a bit less antagonistic, unfortunately the topic matter involved is going to inevitably force the discussion into that direction.

Webslave,

At this point all I'm waiting for is a moderator to confirm that Richard exists and is NOT me. This is what the first post was about anyway. As with most local transactions, my sales to Rich were cash so I cannot "prove" he bought animals from me. I will refrain from discussing my PAST or giving input on any past, present, or future legal issues regarding reptiles. This only hurts the people who wanted to be informed about the reptile world around them seen through my eyes and I will just continue to push Fauna as a great site for folks to buy/sell their herps.

Thanks,
Barry

 

[critical bill]

Sorry, but this time (which has been rather rare lately) I have to side with Chuck. These are not PERSONAL issues at all being brought up and elaborated on.

Thank you sir. I'm not out to personally attack anyone on this site. I'm trying my best to stay within the rules of this site because I don't want to be banned. But more so because I can appreciate what you're trying to accomplish. I made a promise to you a while back that I would help support your goals for the BOI and fauna in general, and I really did mean it. I get easily carried away sometimes, but that doesn't mean I think you're a jerk and what you're trying to accomplish a joke. I just get carried away.

 

[critical bill]

At this point all I'm waiting for is a moderator to confirm that Richard exists and is NOT me.

Harald already stated that he knows Rich is a separate person, so to that extent I do sincerely apologize to both Rich and you. I had reason to believe other wise, now I do not.

Harald also stated he was waiting on something else or another to provide about Rich. What that is I don't know. It may mean that I owe you and Rich an even larger apology. We'll see.

I guess the only thing left to say is good luck to you in your efforts to recruit members over to fauna. The classified sections could certainly use a boost, as your expertise would also certainly be a welcome addition to many of the discussion forums. Your past is your past, and while I may not like it, I certainly don't have to live with it. You'll get no more grief from me about that.

 

[Spectrum Reptiles]

Harald already stated that he knows Rich is a separate person, so to that extent I do sincerely apologize to both Rich and you. I had reason to believe other wise, now I do not.

Harald also stated he was waiting on something else or another to provide about Rich. What that is I don't know. It may mean that I owe you and Rich an even larger apology. We'll see.

I guess the only thing left to say is good luck to you in your efforts to recruit members over to fauna. The classified sections could certainly use a boost, as your expertise would also certainly be a welcome addition to many of the discussion forums. Your past is your past, and while I may not like it, I certainly don't have to live with it. You'll get no more grief from me about that.

Wholly smoke Chuck! I don't know what to think about you at this point. You render me defenseless finally. Thank you! I do appreciate your tenacity though.(Reminds me of me a little, only different..ha ha) I work with a few rare(LEGALLY acquired species..ha ha) and enjoy this hobby and most of the people. I've been around for quite sometime and not some young guy who did something stupid and was in and out of the hobby for greed. I spend a TON more on my animals each month than I make. All I asked was for people not to judge a guy who was looking to be a "smuggler". 9 reptiles didn't make me a smuggler. It made me kid in a candy store who was tempted. Some folks are tempted with other things in life. Mine at the time was reptiles. Had I known I was going to face the issues I did, I NEVER would have subjected my family to that. I didn't do it for the money like some have. There are more people out there like me, but don't say anything because of embarrassment. I don't fault them for that. I wanted to speak out for many different reasons, but will refrain. All I can tell you is that on the surface, govt & enforcement appears to be doing the "right thing" and "Saving the world" but many times that's just not the case. I learned ALOT from my experience and wanted to share it so that my peers would benefit, not hang me. That's all. Below is a link and perfect example of what we are ALL facing as reptile enthusiasts. Don't forget it!! I urge everyone to read it(even the comment below from Mr. Santhuff). What happened here is MUCH worse(IMO) than me buying 9 CITES II animals from overseas. Many times these turtles they are supposed to protect end up dying in enforcements care. All they had to do was order the guy NOT to sell or give any away, take a full inventory, and force him to hold everything til their investigation was over. There was no need to confiscate them, ultimately dying in their care.(See my point? It's not about the animals)

http://www.ajc.com/ajccars/content/metro/gwinnett/stories/2008/09/03/turtle_lawsuit.html

*Moderators/webmaster: Please forgive me if I'm not supposed to post any links on the BOI. I'm still learning the ropes. I'm looking forward to CONTRIBUTING to Fauna as much as I did at KS(which still uses the video of my Impressed Tortoises on their homepage..ha ha...gotta love it).

Regards,
Barry

 

[greenfiremajick]

My level of respect for you, just rose tremendously, Chuck (Not that you need my approval, but I wanted to let you know I'm impressed with your willingness to be a man and aplogize when apologies are due).

Harald already stated that he knows Rich is a separate person, so to that extent I do sincerely apologize to both Rich and you. I had reason to believe other wise, now I do not.

Harald also stated he was waiting on something else or another to provide about Rich. What that is I don't know. It may mean that I owe you and Rich an even larger apology. We'll see.

I guess the only thing left to say is good luck to you in your efforts to recruit members over to fauna. The classified sections could certainly use a boost, as your expertise would also certainly be a welcome addition to many of the discussion forums. Your past is your past, and while I may not like it, I certainly don't have to live with it. You'll get no more grief from me about that.

 

[WebSlave]

Webslave,

At this point all I'm waiting for is a moderator to confirm that Richard exists and is NOT me. This is what the first post was about anyway. As with most local transactions, my sales to Rich were cash so I cannot "prove" he bought animals from me. I will refrain from discussing my PAST or giving input on any past, present, or future legal issues regarding reptiles. This only hurts the people who wanted to be informed about the reptile world around them seen through my eyes and I will just continue to push Fauna as a great site for folks to buy/sell their herps.

Thanks,
Barry

You are welcome to provide input on this topic within other relevant forums on this site. It's just that such topic matter is really not releveant within THIS particular thread. Now if you were defending yourself in a thread about YOURSELF on the BOI, then that would be a completely different kettle of fish. Or if you decided to start your own thread in the business forum, well, that would be acceptable as well.

 

[Ed Clark]

why do you think that personal attacks on people constantly are ok on here. that is not what this site is designed for. if you are retired then you should have plenty of time to think up intelligent responses to posts instead of just constantly pushing arguments further and further. seems to me you act more like a 17 year old high school girl than a retired adult man. Get a life or a second hobby. Something that will occupy you. People wonder why the boi may be going away and the sad part is all they have to do is look at members like you and they have their answer.

Brian do you know what the word hypocritical means?

I will ask you what you have just asked of others.

why do you think that personal attacks on people constantly are ok on here.

This is what you posted just yesterday,
Now this is your personal attack.

is business that bad for you man that you feel the need to be a utter prick? stay on your own posts man.
__________________
Brian
Cryptic Dragons
www.crypticdragons.com

This has been a rather calm debate about the facts on this thread, no real personal attacks as you stated. the 2 people typing from the same computer somewhat tilts it all as to being made up by 1 person...but the facts are coming out.

 

[KelliH]

My level of respect for you, just rose tremendously, Chuck (Not that you need my approval, but I wanted to let you know I'm impressed with your willingness to be a man and aplogize when apologies are due).

Ditto.

 

[spyder79]

Brian do you know what the word hypocritical means?

I will ask you what you have just asked of others.



This is what you posted just yesterday,
Now this is your personal attack.


This has been a rather calm debate about the facts on this thread, no real personal attacks as you stated. the 2 people typing from the same computer somewhat tilts it all as to being made up by 1 person...but the facts are coming out.

that was me taking up for someone that did not deserve you taking out frustrations on them. while this post and many others in the boi from chuck are only argumenative and he is only trying to tear people down without giving them a chance. you can be butt hurt all you want but you know i was right in that post and if you have a problem with it or me you can take it to PM not on this or any other persons post.

 

[critical bill]

while this post and many others in the boi from chuck are only argumenative and he is only trying to tear people down without giving them a chance.

Really? I gave Barry and Rich the chance to prove me wrong and they did. I apologized, and it seems Barry and I have moved past that. I sure hope he forgives me and doesn't have any lingering hard feelings because my apology was sincere.

So why are you still hanging around to argue with Ed Clark?

It seems to me you think its OK when you want to argue with people and tear them down, but when you're caught at it (like Ed Clark nailed you for doing) you wont even be a big man and apologize for it.

Please don't reply to this because its taking things to far off topic. And don't PM me to discuss this please - because I don't like you and I don't think much of you. I actually like Ed Clark better than you.

 

[hhmoore]

I trust this is the end of that particular squabble?
(I really didn't/don't want to do this, but who knows...it might be sort of fun)
Brian, since your PM seemed to indicate that a public commentary was highly important, here it is - just stop. We get that you were called out in this thread, and it shouldn't have happened. Your response was just as off-topic, AND it created yet another off-topic post...so instead of dealing with one person, we have to deal with 3. Make your personal comments via PM or email, and use the Report Post function to notify moderators of problems in the forums vs adding to them.
(hmmm - nope, I don't feel any better about that...and still think that leaving it private would have been more appropriate. Hope it was good for you, though)
Ed, Chuck, I'm sure you've read your own messages - your cooperation is appreciated.

 

[critical bill]

I trust this is the end of that particular squabble?
Ed, Chuck, I'm sure you've read your own messages - your cooperation is appreciated.

Absolutley. Thanks Harald.

 

[MikeCurtin]

First, I have to say that Chuck's apology doesn't really surprise me as of late. He's tough, but I feel he's fair as well.

Secondly, due to verification of several people, I'm pretty certain that Rich and Barry aren't one and the same. There is one other question, though. Was K.S. warranted in their banning of Rich for the aforementioned reasons? Is it possible that Rich was listing animals for Barry in violation of their TOS, and/or was it reasonable for the folks at K.S. to believe that to be true? I think that's the important question here.

 

[Spectrum Reptiles]

Mike/Chuck/Ed/Brian......

First, I have to say that Chuck's apology doesn't really surprise me as of late. He's tough, but I feel he's fair as well.

Secondly, due to verification of several people, I'm pretty certain that Rich and Barry aren't one and the same. There is one other question, though. Was K.S. warranted in their banning of Rich for the aforementioned reasons? Is it possible that Rich was listing animals for Barry in violation of their TOS, and/or was it reasonable for the folks at K.S. to believe that to be true? I think that's the important question here.

Mike/Chuck/Ed/Brian:

Chuck...Yes, we are past everything, and I wanted to extend any apology you may have coming from me for acting a bit childish as well. At first I felt as if I was getting bashed by "KS followers", but can see now that is not the case. I now see that there are some folks who would make a post(like Rich did) and say things without facts just to stir up the pot. I think it is all your guys duty to find the weak spots in the story, but I just think everyone's styles are different and some can be a little antagonistic. I'm just glad that the air was cleared.

Posts and emails are tough because they can't express feeling or body language, so sometimes they can be take more harsh than the sender is really trying to convey and a receiver(like me) may get defensive. All things work out in the end good or bad like they did here.

Mike: As I mentioned, Rich only had the account a couple months before being terminated. He bought some odds and ends(with cash) and put them on KS. Rich received an email from Jeff saying that he was terminated due to violation of his TOS. He also said that it was because Rich was: posting for me, letting me use his account, or was me.(3 scenarios) Sounded to me like he didn't even know what "the facts" were. Personally, I don't think he cares and I'm not sure where he is getting his bad intel. I even went so far as to send Jeff a private email kindly asking him to let Rich have his account and that it wasn't fair to terminate his account just for buying some animals from me. Rich said he sent him an email also asking him to please reconsider opening his account or please refund any unused money from the subscription (Guess the new race car needs gas..ha ha). Jeff did neither.

Here is the problem that Jeff may or may not run into....There are quite a few guys like Rich who have been banned and had their money taken. I have a friend on the east coast who was banned for refusing to stop mentioning "trades" in his KS ad, so KS banned him and didn't even respond to his emails. You can only do this type of stuff soo many times before people start feeling abused and will start looking for a new place to call home. That is where I am going to push Fauna hard to other folks who are afraid of KS nazi rules(just a term, no offense) and want a place to post without any worry and also encourage the public and buyers to go to fauna as their place to visit. Thats all........

Thanks,
Barry

 

[MikeCurtin]

Mike: As I mentioned, Rich only had the account a couple months before being terminated. He bought some odds and ends(with cash) and put them on KS. Rich received an email from Jeff saying that he was terminated due to violation of his TOS. He also said that it was because Rich was: posting for me, letting me use his account, or was me.(3 scenarios) Sounded to me like he didn't even know what "the facts" were. Personally, I don't think he cares and I'm not sure where he is getting his bad intel. I even went so far as to send Jeff a private email kindly asking him to let Rich have his account and that it wasn't fair to terminate his account just for buying some animals from me. Rich said he sent him an email also asking him to please reconsider opening his account or please refund any unused money from the subscription (Guess the new race car needs gas..ha ha). Jeff did neither.

Here is the problem that Jeff may or may not run into....There are quite a few guys like Rich who have been banned and had their money taken. I have a friend on the east coast who was banned for refusing to stop mentioning "trades" in his KS ad, so KS banned him and didn't even respond to his emails. You can only do this type of stuff soo many times before people start feeling abused and will start looking for a new place to call home. That is where I am going to push Fauna hard to other folks who are afraid of KS nazi rules(just a term, no offense) and want a place to post without any worry and also encourage the public and buyers to go to fauna as their place to visit. Thats all........

Thanks,
Barry

It sounds to me like KS wasn't sure what was going on, but had a pretty good idea that you guys were collaborating in some way. It's a private site, and while I disagree with them not refunding payment, they can ban anyone they choose.

As for your friend on the east coast, he's an idiot, moron, bafoon, and/or person of well below average intelligence. How do I know? Because I had about 6 ads pulled on the same day. They were all pulled for the same reason (mentioning trade specifics in the body of the ad). I was told very clearly that TOS only allows for me to mention the existence of and/or link to an ad in the trade section. I relisted the ads with mention of another ad which I subsequently posted in the trades section, and had no problems. It was a pain, but it's what was required to sell on their classifieds. If I had decided that I'd list things the way I thought they should be done, rather than the way KS required it and spelled out in their TOS, I'd have deserved being banned.

If you come into my house and put your feet on the furniture, disrespect my wife, and decide you think it's okay to get drunk and belligerent, don't be surprised when I kick your butt out in the street.

 

[offroad537]

isn't there a word for that, you can be one person and then change and be someone else.

 

[offroad537]

I have a question for all of you and the webslave person, How do you get someone else ip address, The only way I know is to hack into someone computer. and Isn't that ageist the law or is there another way.

 

[Kaminoke]

On message boards, your ip is logged whenever you login/post. Moderators and/or administrators of the message boards have access to those logs.