KINGSNAKE.COM....THE TRUTH

[tim8dena]

IM SORRY IF THIS IS THE WRONG PLACE TO POST THIS THEN PLEASE MOVE



MANY HAVE ASKED ME WHY I NO LONGER PLACE ADDS ON KINGSNAKE..I HAVE TRIED TO KEEP THINGS QUIET TRYING TO WORK THINGS OUT WITH JEFF AND KINGSNAKE BUT NOW AFTER 3 MONTHS I WANT THE TRUTH TO BE TOLD..

I WAS ORIGINALLY BANNED OR SUSPENDED FOR CIRCUMVENTING ANOTHER MEMBERS SUSPENSION..HOWEVER NO PROOF HAS EVER BEEN SHOWN TO ME..THEN I WAS TOLD VIA JEFF I COULD RE-APPLY IN 3 MONTHS..WELL I DIID LAST WEEK AND I GOT THE SAME RESPONSE

We are denying your request for a classified advertising account
at this time.

After a careful review of documentation provided by our archives, by
other users, or interviews conducted by our staff, it has been
determined that you are in breach of your contract with our business
with the following TOS violations.

Account Sharing
Circumventing Ban

I WAS TOLD VIA THIRD PARTY THAT I HAD BEEN BANNED BECAUSE I STARTED SELLING 07 BABY BALL PYTHON MORPHS IN AUGUST AND THAT I MUST BE SELLING SOMEONE ELSES ANIMALS BECAUSE I DID NOT OFFER THEM IN JULY...GO FIGURE..I DIDNT SEE MANY OTHERS SELLING MORPHS IN JULY EITHER SINCE 80% OF BABIES IN THE USA ARE BORN IN JULY AND YOU WANT A FEW MEALS IN THEM BEFORE THEY ARE OFFERED TO THE PUBLIC..
EVEN IF THIS WERE THE CASE IT IS MY RIGHT AS A BUYER TO BUY OTHERS ANIMALS AT WHOLESALE AND RE-SALE AT RETAIL..IF I BOUGHT THEM AND HAVE PROOF I HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT TO SELL THEM..DOES JEFF AND KINGSNAKE ACTUALLY THINK THAT EVERY ANIMAL SOLD ON KINGSNAKE WAS PRODUCED BY THE ACTUALL BREEDER ..THIS IS HOW WE MAKE MONEY..BREEDING AND BUYING AND SELLING OTHER ANIMALS

I HAVE ASKED THEM MANY TIMES TO PROVE THIS TO ME..THEY DONT EVEN BOTHER TO EMAIL OR CALL ME

I WILL NOT BASH OR DO ANY NAME CALLING ETC HERE AS I FEEL I AM BETTER THEN THAT..MY ONLY REASON FOR POSTING THIS IS SO I CAN ANSWER EVERYONES QUESTIONS ABOUT MY LACK OF POSTING AT KINGSNAKE......

WHEN ONE ASKS ABOUT THE CIRCUMVENTING BAN OF ANOTHER MEMBER I WILL GIVE LIMITED DETAILS..I WILL SAY THIS THAT THE PERSON IN QUESTION WAS SUSPENDED/BANNED FOR TELLING THE TRUTH..SOMEONE ELSE (WHO STILL SELLS ON KINGSNAKE) WAS LYING TO THE PUBLIC AND RIPPING THEM OFF FOR $$$$ ON UNPROVEN ANIMALS AND EVEN USED THE PERSON WHO WAS SUSPENDED NAME ON HIS ADDS TO MAKE EVERYONE THINK THEY WERE INDEED THE SAME ANIMALS....

I AM VERY CAUTIOUS ABOUT THIS POST BECAUSE WE ALL KNOW HOW POLITICAL THE REPTILE WORLD IS..WE HAVE ALL SEEN WHAT HAPPENS WHEN RUMOR MILLS GET STARTED..I HAVE NOT LIED OR ATTEMPTED TO HIDE ANYTHING..I SIMPLY WANTED THE TRUTH TO GET OUT TO THE PUBLIC AND SINCE I AM NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO POST OR CHAT IN THE OPEN FORUMS THERE I NEEDED THIS TO BE HERE..AND WE ALL KNOW THAT STAFF FROM KINGSNAKE VISIT HERE REG TO SEE WHO ELSE THEY CAN BAN

I AM FRUSTRATED WITH THE WHOLE SITUATION..I AM BANNED WITHOUT EVIDENCE AND I AM NOT EVEN OFFERED AN ATTEMPT TO DEFEND MYSELF
IT SEEMS MORE LIKELY TO ME THAT I STEPPED ON SOMEONE ELSES TOES AT KINGSNAKE OR I WAS SELLING MY ANIMALS FOR LESS $$$ THEN THE GUYS IN THE MODS POCKETS OVER THERE

SO IF IT IS TRUE THAT I WAS BANNED FOR SELLING SOMEONE ELSES ANIMAL THEY PRODUCED THEN I GUESS ANYONE ON KINGSNAKE NOW SELLING ANY BALL PYTHON MORPHS THAT HAVE ANY TRACE OF PASTEL IN THEM (BUMBLE BEES..SUPER PASTELS...LEMON BLAST..ETC) IF YOU ARE NOT KEVEN OR GREG GRAZIANI YOU ARE IN DIRECT VIOLATIONS OF KINGSNAKE POLICY AS YOU DID NOT BREED THE ORIGINAL ANIMAL AND YOU ARE NOW SELLING SOMEONE ELSES ORIGINAL LINE

JUST MY 2 CENTS WORTH

TIM(PROVIDENCE REPTILES)

 

[SPJ]

Let me see if I am following this.
KS banned someone. You ended up buying his animals and listing them for sale. KS then banned you because they did not want you seeling animals that one belonged to someone they banned.
Is that right?


KS is ridiculous at times. I have had ads pulled because they claimed I was not advertising at market price, supposedly double posting (2 seperate animal BP ads but they didn't like one), listing I would take a trade, etc.

If you aren't a favorite over there, you never really know what could cause them to pull your ad, post, or just outright ban you.

 

[tim8dena]

Let me see if I am following this.
KS banned someone. You ended up buying his animals and listing them for sale. KS then banned you because they did not want you seeling animals that one belonged to someone they banned.
Is that right?


KS is ridiculous at times. I have had ads pulled because they claimed I was not advertising at market price, supposedly double posting (2 seperate animal BP ads but they didn't like one), listing I would take a trade, etc.

If you aren't a favorite over there, you never really know what could cause them to pull your ad, post, or just outright ban you.

YOU ARE ON THE MONEY..I BOUGHT FROM A WHOLE SALE LIST JUST LIKE ANYONE ELSE DOES AND ATTEMPTED TO SELL THEM ALONG WITH MY ANIMALS I PRODUCED

 

[tim8dena]

sad part is if anyone here responds to this they could jepordize thier memberships at kinksnake..they cant take anything else from me..so it looks like fauna is stuck with me (hahahahaha)

tim

 

[Justin Mitcham]

Question..when the buyer buys from you did you have them send the cash to you or someone else?
Just seems like there more to this...

 

[DThomas]

I WAS TOLD VIA THIRD PARTY THAT I HAD BEEN BANNED BECAUSE I STARTED SELLING 07 BABY BALL PYTHON MORPHS IN AUGUST AND THAT I MUST BE SELLING SOMEONE ELSES ANIMALS BECAUSE I DID NOT OFFER THEM IN JULY...GO FIGURE..I DIDNT SEE MANY OTHERS SELLING MORPHS IN JULY EITHER SINCE 80% OF BABIES IN THE USA ARE BORN IN JULY AND YOU WANT A FEW MEALS IN THEM BEFORE THEY ARE OFFERED TO THE PUBLIC..

This type of anonynous 3rd party information is not allowed on the BOI. Sources must be named.

 

[tim8dena]

they send payment to me

thanks tim

 

[SPJ]

Question..when the buyer buys from you did you have them send the cash to you or someone else?
Just seems like there more to this...

Good point. Where you the broker in the deal or did you outright purchase the animals and all monies would now go to you instead of some to the original person?

 

[tim8dena]

This type of anonynous 3rd party information is not allowed on the BOI. Sources must be named.

if i have to i will delete this part..third party was the original seller banned..if he wants his part out here then i will leave it up to him to post..but with all the political backlash i will talk to him first

 

[tim8dena]

Good point. Where you the broker in the deal or did you outright purchase the animals and all monies would now go to you instead of some to the original person?

all moneys went to me

 

[snake5007]

I've heard a lot of stuff about kingsnake. Enough in fact, to make me believe that things are as you say. It seems as if they are siding with big breeders to get $$. Now, this is nothing more than my slight opinion based on what i've heard, i've never spent a large amount of time there and nor do i wish to. Do you have any more evidence of this? Are you going to name names?

On a side note, Ed Clark and the likes buy wholesale and are still putting up ads there, so, for you to get banned for it is hypocritical. Maybe someone from Kingsnake will come here to argue their reasoning in this matter.

 

[tim8dena]

I've heard a lot of stuff about kingsnake. Enough in fact, to make me believe that things are as you say. It seems as if they are siding with big breeders to get $$. Now, this is nothing more than my slight opinion based on what i've heard, i've never spent a large amount of time there and nor do i wish to. Do you have any more evidence of this? Are you going to name names?

On a side note, Ed Clark and the likes buy wholesale and are still putting up ads there, so, for you to get banned for it is hypocritical. Maybe someone from Kingsnake will come here to argue their reasoning in this matter.

this was my hope..they will not give me info so let them defend themselves here

tim

 

[ToshaMc]

I can see - especially if the banned party were some that was scamming the community where there would be an issue. However if you provided KS with your bill of sale, receipt, cc statement, whatever that proved that you had purchased the animals and they were yours to sell - then there shouldn't be an issue with reinstating - however if this third person was using your account (if not how did they know you were banned before you did?) - then I don't see how you can complain as clearly that is against the rule. Perhaps I missed something in the story?

 

[tim8dena]

I can see - especially if the banned party were some that was scamming the community where there would be an issue. However if you provided KS with your bill of sale, receipt, cc statement, whatever that proved that you had purchased the animals and they were yours to sell - then there shouldn't be an issue with reinstating - however if this third person was using your account (if not how did they know you were banned before you did?) - then I don't see how you can complain as clearly that is against the rule. Perhaps I missed something in the story?

im sorry for confusion..we both knew the same day..i was originally only told i circumvented the ban..no information was offered....UNTIL!!!!!! Jeff from kingsnake was at Daytona..he spoke with the original person that was banned and explained to him that it appeared to him and others at kingsnake that i was selling his animals..he (the other banned member) offered to show all receipts of sale etc to him..jeff said he did not want to see them..and said that it appeared to them that i was selling his animals based on the fact that i had not been selling ballpython morphs until after his ban...however this is untrue as i had offered a few morphs prior to this along with numerous CH animals and my remaining animals from madigascar..if they had trutley checked thier records this would be easily seen..however i dont see them admiting that they were indeed wrong...i had babies hatch in july and i bought some others (albinos and yellow bellies) from the banned person at wholesale......Jeff stated to the other person to make it eaiser just take the 3 month ban and then re-apply..he would not listen to reason..i decided that was best for my $$$$ so i sat quiet for 3 months now only to be told the same thing again

 

[JudyC]

I can see - especially if the banned party were some that was scamming the community where there would be an issue. However if you provided KS with your bill of sale, receipt, cc statement, whatever that proved that you had purchased the animals and they were yours to sell - then there shouldn't be an issue with reinstating - however if this third person was using your account (if not how did they know you were banned before you did?) - then I don't see how you can complain as clearly that is against the rule. Perhaps I missed something in the story?

I don't see how you find grounds for assuming the third party was using his account. He bought animals from this person...then turned around to sell them himself. Perfectly legit.

The problem, it seems to me...is that KS never even gave him the opportunity to appeal the ban on his own business...never gave him the opportunity to send them bills of sale, receipts or whatnot.

 

[tim8dena]

I don't see how you find grounds for assuming the third party was using his account. He bought animals from this person...then turned around to sell them himself. Perfectly legit.

The problem, it seems to me...is that KS never even gave him the opportunity to appeal the ban on his own business...never gave him the opportunity to send them bills of sale, receipts or whatnot.

thank you..this is exact..receipts were offered but refused by jeff

tim

 

[JudyC]

I don't see how you find grounds for assuming the third party was using his account. He bought animals from this person...then turned around to sell them himself. Perfectly legit.

OK...after reading Tim's response, I CAN kinda see how a person might assume the "third party" was using his account. I just didn't get that at all from reading his initial reports.

But I still think this is a pretty lame mess for Tim to find himself in with KS so unwilling to even listen to his side of the issue and unwilling to look at any evidence contrary to their initial assumption.

 

[ToshaMc]

Thanks for the explanation - it makes more sense now - but still seems like there has got to be something missing - sounds to me like either you or the person you purchased from - really pissed someone off or has enemies in high places. If you have been in direct contact with Jeff and have offered up the evidence to him and he's decided not to reinstate you then I guess you're stuck on Fauna. If you (yourself) haven't been dealing directly with him then try running it through him - if it's even worth it to you - Daytona probably wasn't the best venue to try to hash things out.

Any idea why your ad was singled out - was it blatantly obvious that you were selling snakes that used to belong to party #3?

Good luck!

 

[bcherps]

Kingsnake has banned many people for supposedly circumventing a ban, and use this excuse a lot.

The 2 most prominent in my mind are:

1. WWARP-wards world of reptile propagation-ward was in the hospital having very serious surgery(plus 6 month post op recovery). Ward does colubrids and owes a part of his sons company which does leopard geckos. Wards son(not a minor) posted some animals for sale on wards classified to help get rid of some animals he and his mom were getting overwhelmed with but signed off as the son to let everyone know who to contact. Immediate suspension!

Why is wards son(not a minor) any different then say LLL, or Underground, when they have an employee post something?

2. Neil Golli bought animals from Africa directly (has wire transfer reciepts to prove it), and Mike Cole bought animals from the same place. They placed the order together to get quantity discounts, a break on the shipping and crate charge, and to make customs/ shipping/pick up easier. After Mike was banned for another matter, Neil was suddenly banned-supposedly for posting Mike's animals. Off course they have the same animals, they ordered at the same time from the same guy in indo!

Why was Neil banned but ten other miami wholesalers that bought animals from the shipment not banned?


The answers to both these questions: Jeff Barringer no longer needs anyones business. And he doesn't care about one individual complaining. So what if he looses one $100 a year customer, 15 newbies sign up a day.

Just like the same reason when we go to Walmart, Home Depot, Lowe's, any other big box stores we can never find what we want for a specialty item and never find a person to help us, and when we do it is a pimply faced high school student and they don't know what we are talking about. They know that everyone in the universe will shop there due to the prices, and we turn a blind eye to quality of service. This is exactly what is starting to happen with kingsnake. And now that it is turning into a community and music site the reptile people are going to become smaller and smaller part of it and less of a concern to Jeff "Napoleon" Barringer.

Thanks
ben cole

 

[tim8dena]

again let me make this part clear..i am in no way bashing kingsnake or jeff in any way..all i am wanting is my side of the story to be told..those who have an account with kingsnake please do not jepordize your account by saying anything negative

this is the main point to my post
i bought and paid for animals legally
listed them on kingsnake to sell at retail along with animals i produced
no one shared my account etc
i was not offered any ways of defending myself.....

if jeff or kingsnake would allow me to come back i would as this is how i make $$$ and feed my children..this is why i am not trying to bad mouth anyone..but if they dont i will not say anything negative or untrue about them..i would have posted this in thier forum had i been given the oportunity
thanks tim