Kingsnake is FISHY

[ssshane]

I was following a post on kingsnake questioning the peanut butter/jelly issue with the florida kings. One of the (and I use the term loosely) leaders of the pb/jelly craze was questioned when his posts contracdicted them selves. When this was bought up, the entire thread "DISAPPEARED". And when I posted the following post, with 1 reply given, MY THREAD DISAPPEARED. Here they are:



my first post



What happened to this post?

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1636992,1637162

Has someone bought some het "jellies" that has access to remove posts? This was a very relavent forum posting. Why was the discussion removed? Am I the only one who thinks this is BS?
-----
Shane@
SSuperiorSSerpents.com



then there was another reply, then my second:



My guess is if you find something revealing here, you better copy and paste it somewhere, or it may disappear??
-----
Shane@
SSuperiorSSerpents.com





Be careful on this site, something is just not right there. I surely would not spend no money to advertise there.

 

[hhmoore]

I moved this thread to the BOI...not because I particularly felt it was a BOI worthy topic, but because the OP mentioned KS in the title & made this statement:

Be careful on this site, something is just not right there. I surely would not spend no money to advertise there.

 

[ssshane]

some missing info

Posted by: ZFelicien at Sat Dec 20 19:11:19 2008 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

Initially (this very season to be exact) you claimed from your Jelly x Jelly pairing you got ALL JELLIES ... @ which point many here (myself included) replied "IMPOSSIBLE" ... Genetically (impossible)... in Thoery (astronomical) ...

Now your claim is you got PB, Amels, Jellies, and "a few forms (you) have not described yet"

(The Brooksi are not the only one's with "Folk Tongues", I see)

This trait has really no comparisons reptile genetics. It can't compare it to what other traits do. So for now, it is left to speculation.

It's this view that has people avoiding working with Jellies... there is no mystery... what occurs with the jellies has been documented plenty of times.. In plants and animals... it's called INCOMPLETE DOMINANCE. (some times called partial dominance)... There is absolutely NO need for speculating

Incomplte (partial) Dominance:

Parent snake A x Parent snake B = "Hybrid" Morph (Hybrid meaning 1/2 parent A & 1/2 parent B)

When you breed the "hybrid" Morphs back to each other your ratio is a follows

1:2:1 25% : 50% : 25% (Parent A : "Hybrid" : Parent B)

This is NOT codom.... there is NO such thing as "supers" here... Variants... YES "NEW" or "Super" ... NO!

All you've got are variations of PB. Amel, and "Jelly" ...


Jelly x ANYTHING = 1/2 your clutch being het PB and 1/2 being het Amel... they are on the same Locus... how can they BOTH exist as Het in a single animal if they are on the same loci?

Jelly x normal = 50/50 hets

Jelly x morph = 50/50 2x hets

Jelly x 2x morph = 50/50 3x hets

Jelly x 3x morph = 50/50 4x hets











Posted by: Bluerosy at Sat Dec 20 20:09:54 2008 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]



Nobody wanting to work with jellies is as ignorant as your other posts. It is also equally clear to everyone you have an axe to grind with your "forked tonque" comment. How do you explain that I sold out on all but a couple Jellies this year? How do you know what is being sold and what isn't? Either way it proves how ignorant you truly are of Florida kings. Keep trying though


BTW I hatched out more than one group of Jelly to Jellies (duh). Go figure.






Comarca de Morón
[imghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Comarca_de_Morón_y_Marchena.png

[/img]










Posted by: ZFelicien at Sat Dec 20 20:50:20 2008 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]



What Ax do i have to grind... you're delusional... Please tell me what would i have to gain? PLEASE! TELL ME!

The facts are the facts.... if you wanna double talk... then expect people to remember!

I don't know what you sold (nor do i care)... BUT i do KNOW how apprehensive people have been towards jellies.

Now if a seller words an ad in a specific way in order to move a boat load of snakes.... ummm "Jelly is essentially the same as a PB" ... Really Now?!

I have NO ax to grind... but others may when those "Quad hets" don't prove out as you told them they would...


ig·no·rant
Function: adjective
Pronunciation: 'ig-n &- r&nt
1 a : destitute of knowledge or education ; also : lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified b : resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence
2 : UNAWARE , UNINFORMED

ig·no·rance
Function: noun
Pronunciation: 'ig-n &- r&n(t)s
: the state or fact of being ignorant


you said it's CLEAR to everyone.... Riiiiiiiight.... LMAO... i bet it's very clear!!!!

 

[MikeCurtin]

KS removed this thread because it turned into a pissing match rather quickly. I have seen that while the mods there don't have much problem with legitimate debate or civil disagreement, when arguments get too heated, too personal, or too potentially offesive, the threads will be removed. If you read the TOS, it mentions as much. Sometimes they're too quick to pull the trigger, and yes, sometimes it SUCKS, but have you seen how dead their forums are lately? If it's that bad, do what many of us have and find discussion elsewhere. While I still frequent their site, my discussion forum involvment is taken up by several other sites instead of that one....I'm meeting alot more people (not to mention more diverse)that way as well.

 

[MDC_Ophiuchus]

This is one of several reasons why I never joined KS in the first place. The only thing they offer that most sites do not is an extensive and well-trafficked classifieds. Thankfully, I do not have to be a member to view them.

 

[ssshane]

I reposted it with a simple question:

Why was the post removed?

I got one reply:

"What is your point in reposting ?"

And shortly it was also gone.


My point was to see which version of what was posted was true. I have no vested interest other than I was trying to learn more about the entire jelly issue. It has stirred alot of talk on various sites, but mainly KS. And I am starting to see why. I guess I too am now curious as to how the 2,3,4x hets will prove out. Its just when things are questioned, and all the facts are removed, people can't help but wonder why. Good luck with it in the future.

 

[bluerosy]

I am the guy with all the Florida king morphs. Actually you did not post some of my replies to the post here. I don't know if they were deleted before you had a chance to read them. But in al fairness you did not post the thread in its entierty. My question is why would you copy the thread and repost it to begin with unless you have some axe to grind yourself. Why not contact me if you are that interested in the mosphs . Most people that are seriously intested would email and i even chat with them over the phone. No sense in trying to raise such a debale over nothing.

What is going on with the Jelly is it is a unique trait that is unlike anything else in herpetoculture. A Jelly is a result of breeding a T negative albino Florida king to a Peanut Butter Florida king. The resulting offspring are not hets (normal looking offspring) but a new intermediate form I call the Jelly. While the Jelly has one person confused (and yes that is why the post got removed because of a pissing contest) I have proven it out from a Jelly to jelly breeding where I got Jellies, Peanut Butters, T negs and some super forms. Where the confusion came in is when i posted the result of the first clutch of jelly to Jelly that I got ALL Jellies. That was an early hatch during the summer. Later clutches proved out a different result. The poster who responded in calling me a lier was Zenny felician is confused about what MY animals are doing and said i was selling hets that would not prove out and just trying to cause problems for whatever personal reasons. But what is strange his little antedote he posted agrees with what the Jellies are except the super forms.

I guess I reacted to what he was accsing me of and the mods removed all the replies. It is not the first time this kid has done this and not the last. Anyone that has a computer can post an drivel they want and most people that don't know the difference will eat it up. That is the problem with boards and forums were any no-nothing can post anything they want.

Bottom line I am not responsible for what other people post about my animals. I don't have a website and am not responsible to repost everything i doon KS. If someone wants to know about these new morphs they know how toi reach me.

 

[Wraith]

I reposted it with a simple question:

Why was the post removed?

I got one reply:

"What is your point in reposting ?"

And shortly it was also gone.

Of course it was removed. You broke the rules by asking about why the original thread got yanked. The rules are clearly stated that discussion about why someone's posts were removed will be deleted. They are not going to explain to every joe bob on the forum why someone's post got removed. If someone wants to know why their post was removed, they need to contact the site coordinator. And don't bother emailing them asking why someone else's posts were removed. They will not talk to you about someone else's account..they will only discuss your own account.

 

[Wolfy-hound]

First, I know diddley squat about kingsnakes(the reptiles, not the site).
Just because the math odds state that 50% of the babies should turn out XX, and 25% should be YY.. does not mean that in REAL LIFE it will be so!
Spider ball pythons(which I DO know) bred to a normal SHOULD give you 50% spiders.. but I've had more than one clutch have 100% spiders. Others have had 75% or more spiders... probably other 100% clutches. It's REAL LIFE vs mathematical odds. Yes, some clutches will have 0% spiders, or only one...
The math states what the genetic odds are overall. It's not going to work out perfectly every time you have eggs. That's the beauty of breeding and hatching. You DON'T know what you'll get until noses poke out of eggs.
The person raising such a fuss that it couldn't happen the way the breeder stated is dead wrong. It can happen.
I don't know the breeder, or the poster, or the OP here. I only want to point out that just bc the pundit square says XX it's not mathematical going to come out that way, and to call someone a liar just because their clutch did not turn out how their math states it should is foolish at best.
Kingsnake can delete any thread or post they want, as it's their site. If it follows the rules stated in that you cannot post threads asking about deleted threads, then more so they are right in deleting. Threads that turn into bickering without resolution or information serve no purpose. Next time you might want to email the mods or admin to ask why, instead of trying to post publicly asking why. That way you can probably get your information, without publicly having your own posts deleted.
Theresa Baker

 

[bluerosy]

Of course it was removed. You broke the rules by asking about why the original thread got yanked. The rules are clearly stated that discussion about why someone's posts were removed will be deleted. They are not going to explain to every joe bob on the forum why someone's post got removed. If someone wants to know why their post was removed, they need to contact the site coordinator. And don't bother emailing them asking why someone else's posts were removed. They will not talk to you about someone else's account..they will only discuss your own account.

Exactly. Kingsnakes Terms Of Service (TOS) are clearly stated. The mods cannot bend the rules for anyone they choose.

 

[Ed Clark]

Rainer, can you post a pic of the jelly so we all know what your talking about?

 

[ssshane]

I can admit I was wrong in asking what happened to the posts. I wasn't aware that was against the rules, which is no excuse. I was trying to read up and stay current on the topic, and it disappeared. It seems the answers are coming out here in this one. So I will continue to read it here.

 

[bluerosy]

Rainer, can you post a pic of the jelly so we all know what your talking about?

Sure I would be glad to.

A Peanut Butter Brooks :

PLUS +

A T- negative albino:

equals=

equals this= =Jelly neonate

adult male Jelly:

adult female Jelly:

I have taken things a step further by breeding the Jelly into other traits which creates things like this:

Pewter (Jelly x axanthic)

I have since bred the Jelly into other recessive traits and that what the discussion was about. The Jelly is a type of codom but only with the T negative albino. It Peanut Butter shares an allele on a sigle locus. Similar to the 'Ultra' in cornsake gentics but breeding a Jelly back to a Jelly proved different results than the Ultra corn. So this is a unique trait in snake genetics. It really is in a class of its own.



The Peanut Butter also creates some other neat things when combined with some of the old traits but is only allelic with the T negative.

Phantom (Peanut Butter x anerythristic):

Peabino (Peanut Butter x lavender (T+ albino):

 

[Ed Clark]

Thanks for the pics and explanations Rainer.

That jelly is certainly a hottie!

I was in early on the Lavender albinos(T+ albino) wish I would have stuck with it longer after seeing all this new stuff. good luck with your future breedings.

 

[Bill]

Jelly Male

Here is a pic of my Jelly Male

Thanks,
Bill

 

[Brandon Osborne]

One of the (and I use the term loosely) leaders of the pb/jelly craze was questioned when his posts contracdicted them selves.

A contradiction would be understatement. The reference to "used car salesman" has been overheard in more than a few conversations. Money, money, money, moooneeey!


Peace and Merry Christmas
Brandon Osborne

 

[bluerosy]

A contradiction would be understatement. The reference to "used car salesman" has been overheard in more than a few conversations. Money, money, money, moooneeey!


Peace and Merry Christmas
Brandon Osborne

Nothing could be further from the truth. I gift many snakes every year to different people who don't have money but have a fervor for what I do. Just not to you!

Merry CHRISTmas!

 

[Bill & Amy]

Well, he's here answering questions and posting pics and talking about genetics. If you have questions about the genetics and stuff, ask him the questions.

 

[Ed Clark]

Here is a pic of my Jelly Male

Thanks,
Bill

Bill, you need to post your full name on the BOI.

 

[Bill]

Brooksi

Sorry about that...

Bill Black

Happy Holidays!!!