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Kingsnake is FISHY

well...

One of the (and I use the term loosely) leaders of the pb/jelly craze was questioned when his posts contracdicted them selves.

ok i followed that thread until it was pulled. the reason it was pulled is fairly obvious, the i feel sorry for anyone buying het.jellies is probably what did it, like your loosely term above... not cool:rolleyes:
rainer is the founder of the peanut butter&jelly he is the man at the top of the fla.king morph hill. you and zenny's post were a lame attempt at discrediting him and his "hets". :NoNo:,,,,,,,,,thomas davis
 
I am not trying to discredit anyone. I am aware of Rainers involvement with pb/jelly. I have been following the topic, and when the questions arose, the thread disappeared. I will continue to read it here. And as I mentioned before, I was wrong by not reading the "rules" before asking questions. I now know not to ask about anything that was once there, and no longer. I am guessing the original post was removed due to "the pissing contest" story. I have read alot of posts there, that also seemed to be a pissing match, but never disappeared. I personally would have liked to have been able to actually read the responses by all parties involved. If people have questions, I think they should be able to ask them. If the answers given don't make people happy, that can't be helped. I am working on a list of my own questions, but I guess I will ask them in private. I am curious as to each persons doubts/and or concerns. I think this is a very interesting topic, and as mentioned before, I will continue to learn more about it. I will just go about it in a different way.
 
ok

first you say this...
One of the (and I use the term loosely) leaders of the pb/jelly craze was questioned when his posts contracdicted them selves.

then you say this...
I am not trying to discredit anyone. I am aware of Rainers involvement with pb/jelly.

:eek: involvement?

he FOUNDED both mutations! id say thats a little more than involved:rofl:
,,,,,,,,,,,,thomas davis
 
ssshane said:
I am not trying to discredit anyone. I am aware of Rainers involvement with pb/jelly. I have been following the topic, and when the questions arose, the thread disappeared. I will continue to read it here. And as I mentioned before, I was wrong by not reading the "rules" before asking questions. I now know not to ask about anything that was once there, and no longer. I am guessing the original post was removed due to "the pissing contest" story. I have read alot of posts there, that also seemed to be a pissing match, but never disappeared. I personally would have liked to have been able to actually read the responses by all parties involved. If people have questions, I think they should be able to ask them. If the answers given don't make people happy, that can't be helped. I am working on a list of my own questions, but I guess I will ask them in private. I am curious as to each persons doubts/and or concerns. I think this is a very interesting topic, and as mentioned before, I will continue to learn more about it. I will just go about it in a different way.
Click to expand...

You don't have to ask them in private. Here at Fauna, threads don't get deleted. You can start a thread in the forums and send a link to anyone you want to ask questions to. Just post a good title and you can even link to this thread and from this thread to the new one. :thumbsup:
 
thomas davis said:
he FOUNDED both mutations! id say thats a little more than involved:rofl:
,,,,,,,,,,,,thomas davis
Click to expand...

Nope. He is not the founder of PBs, but is the person who popularized them. He PURCHASED the original animals as hatchlings. He did however produce the first Jellies, but not the T- amels.

There are holes all over his posts....especially in his for sale ads for PBs.

Brandon Osborne
 
Brandon Osborne and his whiney posts

What has happening here is Brandon Osborne is a little upset about our history of past exchanges on Kingsnake forums.



As far as Brandon Osborne dropping any informational "bomb" regarding my involment with the Peanut Butters and T negatives-the only sound that might be heard would be the slightest of his own intergity imploding..

I bought the projects from the "originators" and I never once said the two new morphs popped out of my wildcaught stock. I bought the original babies and later acquired the original het parent stock. Almost every Peanut Butter and EVERY T negative out there today came from me.

I also the first person to breed the Peanut Butter trait and the t negative trait into other morphs . It was ALSO my breeding efforts that popularized the Peanut butter and the T negative flrorida kings. Nobody elses!~~

I also was the first person that bred the Peanut butter and the T negative together to create the unusual "Jelly" trait. The Jelly trait is what the original disussion was all about that spilled over from the KS forums to this forum.



It is amazing that Brandon has the nerve to advance his own pathetic personal agenda . More that a few readers are aware that I happily provided details and names as to the best of my ability as far as these two strains of brooksi is concerned-and I make it my habit to provide such information on ALL species I work with whenever possible.

He also happens to be friends with Zenny Felician who started this fracas on the other forum which got deleted and Brandon outsourced some of his Brooks king stock to Zenny. I guess that makes them partners.
 
ummmmmmm!!!!!

Ok... I'm a little Late to the party but here goes.

1st to Rainer... If you're gonna use my government name.. .Spell it right! Zenny Felicien!

Now... while i am younger than you are (and many others here) "old man" ... I'm not a kid... you keep referencing me as a "Know nothing" ... is that the best you've got? i think i know ALOT more than you do when it comes to the genetics in question here.

NOW Lets talk about your "Pewter" ... Now you bred a Jelly to a 2x het (White-sided and Peanut Butter) and got that snake (the Pewter)... there was NO AXANTHIC in the Origianl "mix"... but now the "Pewter" is an Axanthic-Jelly? Where'd the Axanthic come from (and remember i KNOW who bred the 2x hets!)

To add to the mess: you sold BHB-Anery x Jelly "3x or 4x" hets and said they'll produce "Pewters" Really... they will?

You say i'm confused about YOUR ANIMALS???? NO sir i am not... I'm VERY Aware! ... esp. when it comes to the genetics!

Your keep saying Brandon and I are conspiring against you... Paranoid are we?... Brandon and I ARE friends and i DO have ONE of his snakes on LOAN!... Partners NO... Friends Yes... Get it?


SO if PB and Amel can exsist as HETS and Jelly x Jelly produces "Supers" ... genetically how do you account for such occurrences?


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To the individual that said we should ask him to explain the genetics... well he has... and he's wrong! so why would you want him regurgitating false information to you?


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To the individual that stated theoretical results are not always 100% you are SOOO correct! BUT what occurs with the Jellies is not recessive to Codom... it's Incomplete Dominance... Ratios may vary if you breed Jelly x Jelly but it is IMPOSSIBLE to get an entire clutch of jellies... and IF that were the case the 2nd time he repeated the breeding he'd get the same or very close to the same results.

When you breed an Ultramel to an Ultramel you get Ultras, Amels, and Ultramels,

He bred Jelly x Jelly ( "the 2nd time" .) and got PB's, Amels, and "Jellies" (really similar?... yes! because it's the SAME occurrence: INCOMPLETE DOMINANCE)


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Thomas Davis: All i can say to you is WOW... you out of all people should've learnt your lesson about Rainer by now... I guess it'll take him showing you the disrespect he showed me (again) publicly for you to RE-open your eyes.


_
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_

the bottom line is this:
I'm tired of the double talk... i'm tired of the misleading ads. And one would say: I have "ax to grind" ... but tell me this... If i work with these same morphs (PB and Jelly) would it not be beneficially to go along with the misleading ads if it'll get me a sale? ( i think it would)... but i have integrity... i want someone to purchase an animal from me and feel good about their purchase... or have animals i sold as 100% HETS to prove out for EXACTLY what i told them they would.

With the Jelly question all i did was state fact! and fact i can back up with scientific proof... the "founder" has be fill your heads with hat he calls "speculation" ... I don't know about you but if i spend 1G on a snake or a pair of snakes you better have more than "Speculation" for me!

All we have to do is WAIT.. wait until a 3rd party breeds their Ghost x Jelly "Quad Hets" and the story will be told...

Do with my post as you may

~ZFelicien
 
ZFelicien said:
_
_
_
To the individual that said we should ask him to explain the genetics... well he has... and he's wrong! so why would you want him regurgitating false information to you?
Click to expand...

Well I suggested that you ask him genetics on this website for a reason. This thread will NOT be deleted. That was part of the initial concern when it came here. So if you want this to be seen by people that don't understand genetics, why not sort it out here? I don't know crap about these animals, don't want to. But you might as well have a permanent record here for all to see, don't you think? :thumbsup:
 
Well, this has been interesting......
When I moved this thread to the BOI, (as I said initially) I didn't necessarily think it was a BOI worthy topic - but I had some concerns regarding the warning about KS, and the comment about not spending money to advertise there.
Then, it turned into a discussion of genetics, and I considered putting it back into a discussion forum....but figured I should watch it a little longer.
Now, there is talk of misinformation in ads, and I can see this easily spinning out of control.

SO..............................................
1) Correct placement or not, this is a BOI thread naming Kingsnake.
2) There is a milksnake/kingsnake discussion forum (or, alternatively, a genetics forum) that would be appropriate to the discussion of "Brooksi" genetics. Please take it there.
3) While we may be more lenient than KS, there are still rules here....I'm up for reading a good debate, but keep in mind that bashing a person or business is going to be a problem here as well.
I considered just copying the bulk of this thread to the discussion forum, but decided it would be better to allow interested participants to copy/paste their own posts...to allow for some editing to suit the stricter tolerances of the discussion forums.
 
My apologies if the content on my post does not fit the purpose of the BOI... to be honest I've primarily been a KS.com user so I'm unaware of the rules here.

Hope the readers can understand, it was/is not my intent to break any rules.

~ZFelicien


hhmoore said:
Well, this has been interesting......
When I moved this thread to the BOI, (as I said initially) I didn't necessarily think it was a BOI worthy topic - but I had some concerns regarding the warning about KS, and the comment about not spending money to advertise there.
Then, it turned into a discussion of genetics, and I considered putting it back into a discussion forum....but figured I should watch it a little longer.
Now, there is talk of misinformation in ads, and I can see this easily spinning out of control.

SO..............................................
1) Correct placement or not, this is a BOI thread naming Kingsnake.
2) There is a milksnake/kingsnake discussion forum (or, alternatively, a genetics forum) that would be appropriate to the discussion of "Brooksi" genetics. Please take it there.
3) While we may be more lenient than KS, there are still rules here....I'm up for reading a good debate, but keep in mind that bashing a person or business is going to be a problem here as well.
I considered just copying the bulk of this thread to the discussion forum, but decided it would be better to allow interested participants to copy/paste their own posts...to allow for some editing to suit the stricter tolerances of the discussion forums.
Click to expand...
 
Zenny,
It wasn't really that your post violated the rules of the BOI. I'm just recommending that the participants in this discussion bring their debate to a more appropriate section of this site. My decision NOT to simply copy this to a new thread is because a) there are posts that are more pertinent to the original topic than the current discussion, and I don't want to include/exclude anybody's post subject to my discretion; and b) some of the comments included in pertinent posts would likely merit infractions, and I don't want to set anybody up by changing the venue.

I'm not stating this to be the case, or suggesting this approach, but allegations regarding Rainer Weishaupl misrepresenting genetics or posting misleading information in ads could make this whole debate a BOI topic......but it is inappropriate to a thread naming KS in the title.
 
hhmoore said:
Zenny,
It wasn't really that your post violated the rules of the BOI. I'm just recommending that the participants in this discussion bring their debate to a more appropriate section of this site. My decision NOT to simply copy this to a new thread is because a) there are posts that are more pertinent to the original topic than the current discussion, and I don't want to include/exclude anybody's post subject to my discretion; and b) some of the comments included in pertinent posts would likely merit infractions, and I don't want to set anybody up by changing the venue.

I'm not stating this to be the case, or suggesting this approach, but allegations regarding Rainer Weishaupl misrepresenting genetics or posting misleading information in ads could make this whole debate a BOI topic......but it is inappropriate to a thread naming KS in the title.
Click to expand...

:iagree:
 
......but it is inappropriate to a thread naming KS in the title

After reading this, is it OK to ask a genetics question, or should it be moved since it does not mention KS?
 
Rainer, you continue to amaze me. I have NO AGENDA, unless MY AGENDA is to get the truth out there. If that is the case, then I am GUILTY. Re-read my earlier post. I was not even responding to your post. It was in response to Thomas.

The problem is, you speculate all of your genetics before you ever prove anything. You sold dozens of "het" PBs the first couple of years, then decided they were a co-dom.

Then you produce "golden pbs" and state you have not outcrossed the pbs into anything, yet in the SAME EXACT AD, you have pbs het for everything under the sun. Is that not outcrossing????? See the holes here?

In regards to my integrity, why would you even pull that out. I'm not at all worried about my integrity. Why? Because I can back it up to the fullest.

I'm not the first, nor the last, to call you out on your BS. Get over yourself.

Again, I never said anything negative about your animals. You produce some of the best looking kings. It's your character that is questioned.

Brandon Osborne
 
The problem is, you speculate all of your genetics before you ever prove anything. You sold dozens of "het" PBs the first couple of years, then decided they were a co-dom.
Click to expand...

Brandon this is what I mean that you are misleading folks. Heck i don't even know what you are talking about. It is like you make this stuff up just to get me to reply and defend something that never happened.
I am going to take a guess at what you are referring to as my mentioning co-dom. The only time I metioned codom is when I said they are a "type" of co-dom. And the reason I said it that way was for for lack of a better description or to make it simpler for the average Joe to understand.

But like I said I don't even know what you and Zenny are talking about and I KNOW you are just trying to muddy the waters. You are incredibly FOS.
 
What you are hoping Brandon is people will buy into your scheme.

Lets take this statement of yours for instance and then let any interested parties decide for themselves:


POSTED BY BRANDON:
You sold dozens of "het" PBs the first couple of years, then decided they were a co-dom.
Click to expand...

Yesss, I sold het Peanut Butters for years before I discovered they were allelic with the T negative. So what is wrong with that?

This is what I meant by Zenny and you posting stuff when people don't know the history between us and your motives.

Another is the 'Pewter morph' Zenny mention on the other thread being a Jelly. Maybe he forgot I posted several times that there was also a Whitesided neonate that pooped out of that same clutch between a Jelly x Het WS axanthic. How is that possible when a Jelly has no history or traces of Whiteside????????????So yes David Blaine stuff does happen in reptile gentics. Same thing goes for the first clutch of all Jellies. Why would I make something like that up about the Jellies when it would end up being a dead-end morph and hurt me? Let me tell you I didn't make anything up folks. It is a LOT better they proved out to be multi hets.

I posted my info a couple times on KS ABOUT THE EXACT BEEEDING OF EVERY WHICH ANIMAL. But if i really wanted to, I could have a website (which is in the works for 2009) which explains everything in detail. I am glad this thread came so i know to get in deeper detail with the parent stock and the breedings behind them on my website.

To the mods. I don't know but I may have violated by posting here again but I did not start this thread about me and I don't have the time to chase these two individuals around from website to website and forum to forum. Like I said before anybody call contact me by phone (770)880-5072 or by email [email protected]. Or check for my website early spring 2009.

With just getting married and kids and it being a couple days before Christmas I don't have the time. The explanations run deep and these two individuals have twisted eveything around so much as far as what i bred and to what it would be hard for me to post several pages of info.

To the original poster who started all this . You can email me for my phone number and I would be glad to chat with you. You will know a whole lot more, IF YOU REALLY ARE INTERESTED, about these morphs. Go to the source if you want info on Brooksi genetics.

Hope you all realize the real reason for the season as well-Merry 'CHRISTmas!
 
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