W.Wedeking
Cult Sex Symbol
I just went there and there are only 3 ads for Jon's Jungle now.
Hmmmm, could have been a glitch in the system........
But we would NEVER make a mountain out of a mole hill here on the BOI would we?
-
Responding to email notices you receive.
**************************************************
In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.
KS does it AGAIN
- Thread starter JungleHabitats
- Start date
I just went there and there are only 3 ads for Jon's Jungle now.
Hmmmm, could have been a glitch in the system........
But we would NEVER make a mountain out of a mole hill here on the BOI would we?
Neil Gubitz
TampaSnakePit.com
- Joined
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Alan.... obviously, you just don't get it.... my problem, and the problem you have with KS are Apples and Oranges.... they do not relate at all.... getting in the middle of MY problem was because I ASKED you to help me as a friend??.... That is totally different from "complaining" about someone or something that has nothing to do with you.... If you can't understand the difference, there's a problem there....
You're a great guy, you make gorgeous enclosures and you did me a great favor (which I won't forget).... it still has nothing to do with the KS problem....
Neil
You're a great guy, you make gorgeous enclosures and you did me a great favor (which I won't forget).... it still has nothing to do with the KS problem....
Neil
JungleHabitats
New member
DEAD
DEAD
DEAD
abherps
New member
Clay Davenport said:
abherps
New member
abherps said:
Suncoast Herpetological
Lurking in the Shadows
You know, I have studiously avoided posting on Kingsnake related threads for the last couple of years for a number of reasons. First and foremost, I frequent both sites and thoroughly enjoy both of them. I have a great deal of respect for both Rich and Jeff.
However, the pissing and moaning about every single change to Kingsnake's TOS has just gotten to the point of whining and mewling. This latest change is actually just a method of enforcing a term that has been in place for years.
"You are able to post up to 3 ads per category per day"
Is there something complex or some hidden meaning in that statement? Seems pretty straight forward to me. Those of you who have replaced a sold item with a new one in the same 24 hour pewriod have simply been getting a freebie for the last few years. Get over it. You havven't lost a damn thing you were entitled to.
The second thing I have noticed is that Kingsnake's staff (Jeff included) invariably respond to courtesy with courtesy. I have never had a moments problem with anyone who works there as long as inquiries and comments were delivered in an adult businesslike fashion. I have noticed that all of the classified holders that have posted here about being banned (three come to mind right off) have blatantly violated this TOS
"Being Abusive/Belligerent/Argumentative to Staff - All of the services we provide, whether in classifieds or forums, we provide as a service, and grant you the privilege to use them. If you violate that privilege, either knowingly or unknowingly, we may contact you and ask you to stop. If you persist or become abusive, belligerent, or argumentative with an employee, we have the right and the ability to revoke your classified and other site privileges and cancel your services.
Our employees are doing their jobs and being abused is not part of the job. No customer or business pays us enough money to be abused, and we have no time to deal with abusive individuals or companies. There are now a number of people who have lost their access by being abusive. If you receive a warning about an ad or a message board post, or find your ads or posts missing, think twice before you hit the send key."
You can't make it much plainer than that. His site, his rules. Act like an adult business person or get the hell out. I personally can respect that.
As to the "he stole my money" crap. That isn't even worth bringing up. You don't get a refund for being a jerk. Follow the posted rules or tell your story walking.
And bitching about the last rate increase? Get real. The classified fees are, without a doubt, the best bang for your buck out there.
It is just getting old people. If you don't like the way his site is operated.....don't go there. Plain and simple.
As to the problems between Rich and Jeff, they are exactly that, between Rich and Jeff. I think mistakes have been made on both sides of that fence but both of them are adults and they will settle their differences as they see fit.
Here is a prime example of the "horrible customer service at Kingsnake. I noticed last night that even if the ad you delete is simply in your list and not currently posted, deleting it counts towards your three a day. I sent the following Email
To: kingsnake
From Suncoast Herps
"I completely understand the reason for the filter. No problem for me at all. I did notice though that even if you go in and delete an expired ad from your list, not one that is currently posted but one that is simply shown in your list as expired, it also counts towards your three a day. Is that a glitch of some sort in the filter?"
Today I received the following reply
From: Les Fowler
To: Suncoast Herps
"John,
Thanks for the heads up, I'll forward this to the developers so they can fix it.
Les Fowler
[email protected]"
Shocking isn't it?
Courtesy responded to with courtesy people. Pretty much a universal concept out there in the business world.
Lastly, in regards to the enforcement of TOS. Do a lot of violations slip through the cracks? You bet. Do you folks realize the sheer number of classified and forum posts on Kingsnake? It would take a small army to monitor and catch each infraction of the rules in a timely manner. Bottom line is that if you have done something wrong 10 times and get warned on the 11th, don't cry about it. STOP DOING IT!. Again, not a tough concept to grasp. If someone gets away with something you got warned for you can report them to the Abuse Coordinator or simply mind your own business and get on with your day. Another relatively easy solution.
By the way, I have no intention of responding to the expected flood of posts that will doubtless be triggered by what I have just said so have at it guys.
I have had my say and I feel better for having said it.
John Schmitt
Suncoast Herpetological
http://www.suncoastherps.com/
However, the pissing and moaning about every single change to Kingsnake's TOS has just gotten to the point of whining and mewling. This latest change is actually just a method of enforcing a term that has been in place for years.
"You are able to post up to 3 ads per category per day"
Is there something complex or some hidden meaning in that statement? Seems pretty straight forward to me. Those of you who have replaced a sold item with a new one in the same 24 hour pewriod have simply been getting a freebie for the last few years. Get over it. You havven't lost a damn thing you were entitled to.
The second thing I have noticed is that Kingsnake's staff (Jeff included) invariably respond to courtesy with courtesy. I have never had a moments problem with anyone who works there as long as inquiries and comments were delivered in an adult businesslike fashion. I have noticed that all of the classified holders that have posted here about being banned (three come to mind right off) have blatantly violated this TOS
"Being Abusive/Belligerent/Argumentative to Staff - All of the services we provide, whether in classifieds or forums, we provide as a service, and grant you the privilege to use them. If you violate that privilege, either knowingly or unknowingly, we may contact you and ask you to stop. If you persist or become abusive, belligerent, or argumentative with an employee, we have the right and the ability to revoke your classified and other site privileges and cancel your services.
Our employees are doing their jobs and being abused is not part of the job. No customer or business pays us enough money to be abused, and we have no time to deal with abusive individuals or companies. There are now a number of people who have lost their access by being abusive. If you receive a warning about an ad or a message board post, or find your ads or posts missing, think twice before you hit the send key."
You can't make it much plainer than that. His site, his rules. Act like an adult business person or get the hell out. I personally can respect that.
As to the "he stole my money" crap. That isn't even worth bringing up. You don't get a refund for being a jerk. Follow the posted rules or tell your story walking.
And bitching about the last rate increase? Get real. The classified fees are, without a doubt, the best bang for your buck out there.
It is just getting old people. If you don't like the way his site is operated.....don't go there. Plain and simple.
As to the problems between Rich and Jeff, they are exactly that, between Rich and Jeff. I think mistakes have been made on both sides of that fence but both of them are adults and they will settle their differences as they see fit.
Here is a prime example of the "horrible customer service at Kingsnake. I noticed last night that even if the ad you delete is simply in your list and not currently posted, deleting it counts towards your three a day. I sent the following Email
To: kingsnake
From Suncoast Herps
"I completely understand the reason for the filter. No problem for me at all. I did notice though that even if you go in and delete an expired ad from your list, not one that is currently posted but one that is simply shown in your list as expired, it also counts towards your three a day. Is that a glitch of some sort in the filter?"
Today I received the following reply
From: Les Fowler
To: Suncoast Herps
"John,
Thanks for the heads up, I'll forward this to the developers so they can fix it.
Les Fowler
[email protected]"
Shocking isn't it?
Courtesy responded to with courtesy people. Pretty much a universal concept out there in the business world.
Lastly, in regards to the enforcement of TOS. Do a lot of violations slip through the cracks? You bet. Do you folks realize the sheer number of classified and forum posts on Kingsnake? It would take a small army to monitor and catch each infraction of the rules in a timely manner. Bottom line is that if you have done something wrong 10 times and get warned on the 11th, don't cry about it. STOP DOING IT!. Again, not a tough concept to grasp. If someone gets away with something you got warned for you can report them to the Abuse Coordinator or simply mind your own business and get on with your day. Another relatively easy solution.
By the way, I have no intention of responding to the expected flood of posts that will doubtless be triggered by what I have just said so have at it guys.
I have had my say and I feel better for having said it.
John Schmitt
Suncoast Herpetological
http://www.suncoastherps.com/
KNOBTAIL
LORD OF THE FLIES
well JOHN,
You dont have to convince me. Thank you for the post, it was most enlightning, right on target, and quite accurate. JERRY TRESSER
You dont have to convince me. Thank you for the post, it was most enlightning, right on target, and quite accurate. JERRY TRESSER
Bobby Douglass
Active member
John, thank you for posting "business" right.
Neil Gubitz
TampaSnakePit.com
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John.... There must be an echo in here.... I think I just said that??.... Didn't I???
Good job.... and absolutely on point!
Neil
Good job.... and absolutely on point!
Neil
Clay Davenport
Cerebral Nomad
abherps said:
I received the same email a day or two after I made that post. I just figured at the time it had been so long since the changeover, and since they had removed the statement that the feature was forthcoming that they had dropped the idea altogether.
With a preview option, I actually think the new software will be a benefit. Unfortunately it's the few who abuse the system and cause such changes. Prehistoric pets was the worst, but they were made to stop that behavior.
Forcing the posting limit to be enforced automatically keeps those who sit at the computer all day from driving the ads from people who have a life to page two in a couple of hours.
longissima
New member
From KS - TOS. Well, I sure hope no one has any enemies out there, cause you can kiss you account good-bye until your "differences" are resolved. Unfortunately there only needs to be one side to the story to have your account suspended. This recently happened to me because of this thread:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28754&highlight=derek+roberts
This complaint about me caused my account on KS to be suspended for about a month. No explanation, just an e-mail address and a note saying that this person complained about non-delivery of goods. Not needing anything from my side of the story or bother even asking for proof...bye-bye account!
And yeah, I know the ad fees are a bargain and well worth it. $107 for a year. But you know, it would sure be nice to be able to use it without any "joe shmoe" being able to complain away my account priviledges(sp?).
I love the site...it has been my favorite for a long time. Unfortunately the changes that are being made seem like they are for the betterment of the business than the hobby. I do understand that reptiles in general are growing as a business, but it will be the hobbyist who lasts through the ups and downs of the business genre. Some of us just want a place to ask and answer questions, show off our animals and maybe even sell a few to like-minded people. (HMM...I wonder why I can post this kind of a post on this particular site, but not KS?)....can anyone say "Viollation of TOS"? Anyway, KS will continue to host 5 billion hits per hour, sell $1 million dollars of animals per day and be the herp juggernaut that it is. And when there is a general concern over the pro and cons of KS and ANY other herp site, FAUNA will be the one place ANYONE can do so with out worrying about spontaneous combustion.
Oh yeah, and the Jon's Jungle ads were taken down from 6 to 3 within 5 minutes of my post about them. Things that make you go....HMMM?!
Adam Block
New member
Wow, so now it was something I planned? Bet I even lied about it right.
LOL Rich, I would sell this site to somebody and stick to armslocker.com! If I could have gotten my guns to breed I would have done that instead of snakes. Something bout gun folks, just wouldn't see this dramma on that site.
Suncoast Herpetological
Lurking in the Shadows
Jerry, Bobby and Neil....thanks for the kind words. It's nice to know I am not the only one thinking this way.
JungleHabitats
New member
Not sure Greg
It could be possible , but i would think its just that he probably runs 1-2 day adds so after that they would not show up on the boards they would drop off ( i think )
It could be possible , but i would think its just that he probably runs 1-2 day adds so after that they would not show up on the boards they would drop off ( i think )
KNOBTAIL
LORD OF THE FLIES
I was just curious if Jon ever made
good with that customer who was waiting for their Kimberleys. JERRY TRESSER
good with that customer who was waiting for their Kimberleys. JERRY TRESSER
I've been biting my tongue over this...
But I'm getting tired of the taste of blood.
So I want to bring this out onto the floor for discussion.
First the original quote in it's entirety from John Schmitt:
I have highlighted the passage in that quote that is giving me a comprehension problem.
The implication here is that this is a personal problem. Something outside of the scope of having it's root cause being something that should be of concern to anyone else. Somewhere along the line JeffB and WebSlave (I am using this label because that is what I wear as owner and moderator of this message board) got into a personal issue outside of the business aspect of both of us running websites that cater to the herpetological community at large. So, of course, being a personal issue, it has no bearing whatsoever on how someone else should be concerned about in how they percieve the "rightness" or "wrongness" of either or both sides. After all, if someone is "right" and someone is "wrong", there is an issue there that some people may not want to have to face up to.
Let me ask you this: Do you think I would be having this feud with JeffB if I did not have FaunaClassieds.com? An honest appraisal only leaves one answer for that question, I believe. Is this a PERSONAL concern? Or is this a BUSINESS concern?
The next question would have to be, what is it about FaunaClassifieds.com that would get the owner of kingsnake.com mad at me? Again, what is PERSONAL about the root of the problem here? Do you think that the fact that FaunaClassifieds.com has been growing in size and popularity may have been considered as some sort of threat to JeffB? I mean, I rarely ever went to kingsnake.com and certainly did NOT violate any of the terms of service of that site, so why would JeffB have an issue with me personally?
I used to speak to JeffB regularly on the phone, especially when I set up the BOI originally on HerpWantAds.com. I specifically asked him about what he would consider as suitable and appropriate for me to make any mention of all about the Board of Inquiry on kingsnake.com and I made note of what he wanted. As such, I made damned sure I did not step on JeffB's toes on that issue. After all, I thought JeffB and I had a reasonable relationship and I really did not want to jeopardize that in any way. I believe JeffB told me that I could post a link to the BOI by including it as my signature when I posted on his forums, but as best I can remember, I never even took him up on that offer.
I repeat: As best I can remember, I have NEVER violated anything listing in kingsnake.com's TOS.
So, even if the above points are completely discounted, let's then focus on the point where the feud became overt and publicly visible:
On 12/18/2002 at 2:25am, Adam Block posted this thread on the BOI of FaunaClassifieds.com:
Having trouble with Kingsnake.com Help Please!! Sorry, kind of long
I'm sure many of you remember this thread. Perhaps you will also remember that on 12/19/2002 at 6:33 pm I posted the following within that very same thread:
OK, so was it a PERSONAL reason that I told JeffB that I was NOT going to delete Adam Block's thread? Was it a PERSONAL reason that I felt compelled, as WebSlave, to uphold the terms of service I have posted for my own website?
From all angles I have been able to look at this, I only had two options: (1) Delete Adam's thread, or (2) Do NOT delete Adam's thread.
If #2 was a mistake, then what would #1 have been?
Is it me personally that JeffB has issues with or is it MY WEBSITE, FaunaClassifieds.com, which allows YOU ALL to talk about whatever you want, including him and HIS website, that he has issues with?
So explain to me how this is all viewed as being a personal problem. I am having real difficulty seeing it from that angle.
And based on the events that have taken place from the time that Adam Block posted that thread, please explain to me the mistakes I made in how I handled this. I am sure there were some, but I am curious to know how other people may think I could have better handled this situation. Even when I get angry, I find that humor is a better response than antagonism, but perhaps JeffB had issue with that. Could be, you know, he may not have a sense of humor. So yes, that could possibly be construed as a personal issue, but was that the CAUSE of the problem? But would my getting angry at this issue, and doing anything that this may entail, have been a better response?
I can go on and list subsequent events and details, if needed, to fill in the picture completely up to date.
So go ahead, tell me how I handled this wrong. There is nothing wrong about being proven wrong. It is just another learning experience, as far as I am concerned. I am willing to listen and learn from the discussion. I may or may not agree, but I will honestly and seriously consider what is said. I truly want to know what I should have done to have handled this better.
But I'm getting tired of the taste of blood.
So I want to bring this out onto the floor for discussion.
First the original quote in it's entirety from John Schmitt:
I have highlighted the passage in that quote that is giving me a comprehension problem.
The implication here is that this is a personal problem. Something outside of the scope of having it's root cause being something that should be of concern to anyone else. Somewhere along the line JeffB and WebSlave (I am using this label because that is what I wear as owner and moderator of this message board) got into a personal issue outside of the business aspect of both of us running websites that cater to the herpetological community at large. So, of course, being a personal issue, it has no bearing whatsoever on how someone else should be concerned about in how they percieve the "rightness" or "wrongness" of either or both sides. After all, if someone is "right" and someone is "wrong", there is an issue there that some people may not want to have to face up to.
Let me ask you this: Do you think I would be having this feud with JeffB if I did not have FaunaClassieds.com? An honest appraisal only leaves one answer for that question, I believe. Is this a PERSONAL concern? Or is this a BUSINESS concern?
The next question would have to be, what is it about FaunaClassifieds.com that would get the owner of kingsnake.com mad at me? Again, what is PERSONAL about the root of the problem here? Do you think that the fact that FaunaClassifieds.com has been growing in size and popularity may have been considered as some sort of threat to JeffB? I mean, I rarely ever went to kingsnake.com and certainly did NOT violate any of the terms of service of that site, so why would JeffB have an issue with me personally?
I used to speak to JeffB regularly on the phone, especially when I set up the BOI originally on HerpWantAds.com. I specifically asked him about what he would consider as suitable and appropriate for me to make any mention of all about the Board of Inquiry on kingsnake.com and I made note of what he wanted. As such, I made damned sure I did not step on JeffB's toes on that issue. After all, I thought JeffB and I had a reasonable relationship and I really did not want to jeopardize that in any way. I believe JeffB told me that I could post a link to the BOI by including it as my signature when I posted on his forums, but as best I can remember, I never even took him up on that offer.
I repeat: As best I can remember, I have NEVER violated anything listing in kingsnake.com's TOS.
So, even if the above points are completely discounted, let's then focus on the point where the feud became overt and publicly visible:
On 12/18/2002 at 2:25am, Adam Block posted this thread on the BOI of FaunaClassifieds.com:
Having trouble with Kingsnake.com Help Please!! Sorry, kind of long
I'm sure many of you remember this thread. Perhaps you will also remember that on 12/19/2002 at 6:33 pm I posted the following within that very same thread:
OK, so was it a PERSONAL reason that I told JeffB that I was NOT going to delete Adam Block's thread? Was it a PERSONAL reason that I felt compelled, as WebSlave, to uphold the terms of service I have posted for my own website?
From all angles I have been able to look at this, I only had two options: (1) Delete Adam's thread, or (2) Do NOT delete Adam's thread.
If #2 was a mistake, then what would #1 have been?
Is it me personally that JeffB has issues with or is it MY WEBSITE, FaunaClassifieds.com, which allows YOU ALL to talk about whatever you want, including him and HIS website, that he has issues with?
So explain to me how this is all viewed as being a personal problem. I am having real difficulty seeing it from that angle.
And based on the events that have taken place from the time that Adam Block posted that thread, please explain to me the mistakes I made in how I handled this. I am sure there were some, but I am curious to know how other people may think I could have better handled this situation. Even when I get angry, I find that humor is a better response than antagonism, but perhaps JeffB had issue with that. Could be, you know, he may not have a sense of humor. So yes, that could possibly be construed as a personal issue, but was that the CAUSE of the problem? But would my getting angry at this issue, and doing anything that this may entail, have been a better response?
I can go on and list subsequent events and details, if needed, to fill in the picture completely up to date.
So go ahead, tell me how I handled this wrong. There is nothing wrong about being proven wrong. It is just another learning experience, as far as I am concerned. I am willing to listen and learn from the discussion. I may or may not agree, but I will honestly and seriously consider what is said. I truly want to know what I should have done to have handled this better.
JungleHabitats
New member
here is my take
I dont see it perosnel on your part i think the choice you made was based on running thissite and running it as fair as possible there is a old saying opinions are like A__holes everybody has one you know well that you cant please everybody all the time but you can please some people some of the time . I think your choice of doing what you refused not to do at jeff's request was admirable. we as people have a right to speak our mind and it shouldnt be you place to censor anyones thoughts or type in this case .Now if what someone types lands them in a lawsuit for liabel/ slander then they have to deak with what they stated and should have read the rules of the BOI before they typed what they did ithink Jeff in someways sees the BOI as a threat but no offense not to put him out of buisness but to serve as a place that can allow what goes on in his world to be known .. the simple fact that he doesnt allow people to post of rip offs on his site IMO says leaps & bounds about that alone . I cant understandfor the life of me how you can aloow someone to use your site to buy goods then not allow the buyer to take a stand for his rights when he is wronged to me thats bad buisness. that would be like a store allowing people to setup in on there property accepting money for them to do so and then not caring who they ripoff while on your property and when someone comes to you and says hey so n so ripped me off you tell them hmm sorry ? i think everythingyou do Rich is based on a buisness choice for thissite . I know it may be hard to seperate buisness and personal issues at times and thats understandable but you do a FINE job in it ...
hmm im not sure ifthis was a tangent or a reply to what you asked but i know its how i felt when typing it lol
I dont see it perosnel on your part i think the choice you made was based on running thissite and running it as fair as possible there is a old saying opinions are like A__holes everybody has one you know well that you cant please everybody all the time but you can please some people some of the time . I think your choice of doing what you refused not to do at jeff's request was admirable. we as people have a right to speak our mind and it shouldnt be you place to censor anyones thoughts or type in this case .Now if what someone types lands them in a lawsuit for liabel/ slander then they have to deak with what they stated and should have read the rules of the BOI before they typed what they did ithink Jeff in someways sees the BOI as a threat but no offense not to put him out of buisness but to serve as a place that can allow what goes on in his world to be known .. the simple fact that he doesnt allow people to post of rip offs on his site IMO says leaps & bounds about that alone . I cant understandfor the life of me how you can aloow someone to use your site to buy goods then not allow the buyer to take a stand for his rights when he is wronged to me thats bad buisness. that would be like a store allowing people to setup in on there property accepting money for them to do so and then not caring who they ripoff while on your property and when someone comes to you and says hey so n so ripped me off you tell them hmm sorry ? i think everythingyou do Rich is based on a buisness choice for thissite . I know it may be hard to seperate buisness and personal issues at times and thats understandable but you do a FINE job in it ...
hmm im not sure ifthis was a tangent or a reply to what you asked but i know its how i felt when typing it lol
dwedeking
Member
Not wrong but things could have been handled smoother
I've done some research into the personality types that start businesses or large projects such as the BOI has turned out. Usually they are the types to clearly state their opinion (and usually vocally) on what they feel is right or wrong (with just about any situation). They also tent to be competitive (most to a high degree). This lends them to make their arguments to try to convence (sp?) the opposing party even when they realize that the opposing party will never see the logic from their point of view.
I think once the issue that was brought to light via the Adam Block saga hit a point of each side being firmly rooted in their own stance things were pushed further than they needed to be. I wouldn't go so far as to say you handled the situation wrong, but in hindsight the drama may have passed if you and JeffB hadn't spent the energy to push each other's buttons (his removal of the ability to link to your sites, your deal with kingsnakes.com and some little jabs here and there). I think this is where the personal tone came about in the post in question. I believe at some point someone needs to be big enough to just walk away and realize their time could be better spent on a different fight on a different day.
I've done some research into the personality types that start businesses or large projects such as the BOI has turned out. Usually they are the types to clearly state their opinion (and usually vocally) on what they feel is right or wrong (with just about any situation). They also tent to be competitive (most to a high degree). This lends them to make their arguments to try to convence (sp?) the opposing party even when they realize that the opposing party will never see the logic from their point of view.
I think once the issue that was brought to light via the Adam Block saga hit a point of each side being firmly rooted in their own stance things were pushed further than they needed to be. I wouldn't go so far as to say you handled the situation wrong, but in hindsight the drama may have passed if you and JeffB hadn't spent the energy to push each other's buttons (his removal of the ability to link to your sites, your deal with kingsnakes.com and some little jabs here and there). I think this is where the personal tone came about in the post in question. I believe at some point someone needs to be big enough to just walk away and realize their time could be better spent on a different fight on a different day.
Dan,
Yes, I do agree with this, and I admit that I am just not a "turn the other cheek" kind of guy. I could certainly document every step of the escalation and petty slaps from both my side and Jeff's and it would be obvious that our cheeks are definitely getting bloody by now.
But tell me, is there honestly anyone here that would have turned down a chance to get the domain name KINGSNAKES.COM if it had fallen into their lap as it did mine? And how many people who have gotten banned from kingsnake.com have taken it with just a nonchalant shrug of the shoulders and forgotten about it?
Were my actions unreasonable?
As for turning around and walking away from it, yes I seriously had intended on doing that back in early June of this year.
Policy change for FaunaClassifieds - IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!
Initial response was encouraging that I had done the right thing, and I honestly felt I was doing the right thing. I felt I had made that first big step to try to pull back on the hostilities. But then an odd thing happened and the tide did a complete reversal on me:
About the recent policy change concerning kingsnake.com..
To say I was shocked at the vehemence of some of the dissenters to my decision would be a vast understatement. Again, what was the correct thing to do in that situation? I felt like I was witnessing an open revolt here. My choices were to either tell everyone to go to hell, that is MY decision and that is that, or to acquiesce to what seemed like the overwhelming voice of the people who this site is composed of.
In hindsight, yes maybe I should have just told everyone to go fly a kite, but is that the image I want to portray here? I am always willing to listen to reason and try to do what is best, but SHOULD I do what is best for ME or what is best for giving people what they want out of this site? Suppose that those two goals are mutually exclusive? What then?
Sure, I could go back to that original decision, and even push it further that way. I could quite simply forbid ANY mention of kingsnake.com here. Period. Including deals that were done on that site, since JeffB apparently considers at least some of the discussion in the BOI as being libelous to his own customers. My opinion is that such is not the case, but maybe JeffB feels he has good cause to think that way. So do I then refuse to accept discussions about kingsnake.com customers?
So who would be served then by the BOI? Should I go so far as to make the BOI ONLY apply to deals done internally within this site? Just how useful would that be to anyone?
Well, actually I don't consider myself competitive at all. Is that how people view me? Consider this: If I were competitive, I would probably be MOST competitive concerning my own reptile business, since that is what really pays the bills. Would it be logical and reasonable for a highly competitively motivated person to set up a site such as this where my own competitors can sell their animals? The BOI is an excellent medium for up and coming competitors to get their names in the limelight simply by doing good business and receiving public praise for it on the BOI. Is this how a strongly competitive person acts?
As far as competitiveness towards JeffB, nothing was further from my mind. I actively recommended people to utilize his site for the forums and anything else, for that matter, as this was not really intended to be more than just a sideline interest of mine. I did not set up all those discussion forums until AFTER I had gotten banned from kingsnake.com, not BEFORE. Up until the day JeffB banned this site from his, I actively recommended to people requesting a suite of general forums on this site that they go to kingsnake.com instead. THIS site was originally geared towards BUSINESS oriented discussions and that was the way I wanted to keep it. I knew JeffB had those other forums well covered, and that suited me just fine. I really had no interest in them at that time.
So have I convinced you to see the logic from my point of view yet?
So heck, I tried being BIG enough to walk way, but got dragged back into it again. Should I have been MUCH bigger and stronger willed and stayed the course anyway?
How much flak do you suppose I will get if I now consider that as an option again and to hell with those people who want the conflict to continue? Should I really care?
But, Dan, you are right. This sucks up way too much of my time even thinking about it.
Yes, I do agree with this, and I admit that I am just not a "turn the other cheek" kind of guy. I could certainly document every step of the escalation and petty slaps from both my side and Jeff's and it would be obvious that our cheeks are definitely getting bloody by now.
But tell me, is there honestly anyone here that would have turned down a chance to get the domain name KINGSNAKES.COM if it had fallen into their lap as it did mine? And how many people who have gotten banned from kingsnake.com have taken it with just a nonchalant shrug of the shoulders and forgotten about it?
Were my actions unreasonable?
As for turning around and walking away from it, yes I seriously had intended on doing that back in early June of this year.
Policy change for FaunaClassifieds - IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!
Initial response was encouraging that I had done the right thing, and I honestly felt I was doing the right thing. I felt I had made that first big step to try to pull back on the hostilities. But then an odd thing happened and the tide did a complete reversal on me:
About the recent policy change concerning kingsnake.com..
To say I was shocked at the vehemence of some of the dissenters to my decision would be a vast understatement. Again, what was the correct thing to do in that situation? I felt like I was witnessing an open revolt here. My choices were to either tell everyone to go to hell, that is MY decision and that is that, or to acquiesce to what seemed like the overwhelming voice of the people who this site is composed of.
In hindsight, yes maybe I should have just told everyone to go fly a kite, but is that the image I want to portray here? I am always willing to listen to reason and try to do what is best, but SHOULD I do what is best for ME or what is best for giving people what they want out of this site? Suppose that those two goals are mutually exclusive? What then?
Sure, I could go back to that original decision, and even push it further that way. I could quite simply forbid ANY mention of kingsnake.com here. Period. Including deals that were done on that site, since JeffB apparently considers at least some of the discussion in the BOI as being libelous to his own customers. My opinion is that such is not the case, but maybe JeffB feels he has good cause to think that way. So do I then refuse to accept discussions about kingsnake.com customers?
So who would be served then by the BOI? Should I go so far as to make the BOI ONLY apply to deals done internally within this site? Just how useful would that be to anyone?
Well, actually I don't consider myself competitive at all. Is that how people view me? Consider this: If I were competitive, I would probably be MOST competitive concerning my own reptile business, since that is what really pays the bills. Would it be logical and reasonable for a highly competitively motivated person to set up a site such as this where my own competitors can sell their animals? The BOI is an excellent medium for up and coming competitors to get their names in the limelight simply by doing good business and receiving public praise for it on the BOI. Is this how a strongly competitive person acts?
As far as competitiveness towards JeffB, nothing was further from my mind. I actively recommended people to utilize his site for the forums and anything else, for that matter, as this was not really intended to be more than just a sideline interest of mine. I did not set up all those discussion forums until AFTER I had gotten banned from kingsnake.com, not BEFORE. Up until the day JeffB banned this site from his, I actively recommended to people requesting a suite of general forums on this site that they go to kingsnake.com instead. THIS site was originally geared towards BUSINESS oriented discussions and that was the way I wanted to keep it. I knew JeffB had those other forums well covered, and that suited me just fine. I really had no interest in them at that time.
So have I convinced you to see the logic from my point of view yet?
So heck, I tried being BIG enough to walk way, but got dragged back into it again. Should I have been MUCH bigger and stronger willed and stayed the course anyway?
How much flak do you suppose I will get if I now consider that as an option again and to hell with those people who want the conflict to continue? Should I really care?
But, Dan, you are right. This sucks up way too much of my time even thinking about it.