Bad Guy Kyle Hiner--sold me a disfigured Leachie

[hezekiah]

Is it me or do you only get to see the good side from a slight horizontal shot as not to show any problems?

It's not just you, and the pics appear to be of two different animals at least (I am not familiar with leachies but the foot shape is different).

 

[Craigh]

http://geckoforums.net/itrader.php?u=19249
Here are 16 or so satisfied customers from a well known gecko forum,
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158324&highlight=whkrazyk
another happy customer
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143865&highlight=kyle+hiner
And there's 2 more
This is the only person ive ever had try to go this far on a scam, I HAVE NEVER DONE ANYONE WRONG(Judy dont nit pick at that) and I will not be scammed again, so he will not be recieving a refund, and if anyone doesnt want to do business with me over this then its a reflection of your own shallow behaviors, and im probably better off staying away from you!
All I have to say..................Kyle

Kyle is not how many good deals you have it is how you handle the ones that go bad . That shows people how you conduct business and makes people feel all warm and fuzzy inside to deal with you .. IMHO

 

[Cp3_Pythons]

I agree with what Craig has said in the post above me Secondly I've never owned a Leachie I've only seen a handful of them But in the Pic that the OP (of this Thread) has posted looks Diffrent from the One that is in Kyle's ad.
Also It was mentioned early that you can only see one side of One of the Leachies in the Seller's (Kyle) pics It does look picture's of 2 diffrent animals The one you can only see the one side of Looks as if the other side of him (the side not pictured) is limp But I've only seen a handful of leachies So maybe there spose to look that way But I dont think that is the case

 

[herplover47]

Kyle is not how many good deals you have it is how you handle the ones that go bad . That shows people how you conduct business and makes people feel all warm and fuzzy inside to deal with you .. IMHO

Agreed! As soon as there was a problem he went right on the defensive instead of trying to rectify the situation in a professional manner. That raises a red flag of guilt, for me at least. Even if he did have some shady experience with other unhappy customers, as a business person you can't treat every dissatisfied customer like they are trying to pull a fast one.

 

[JudyC]

One of the pictures is of a different animal...but the rest of them appear to be of the same animal, and going on what little I know of geckos, it looks to be the same animal as in the original post. I'd say that either lighting conditions and/or being "fired up" would explain the different pink markings. But if you look at the squiggles on the head around the eyes...as well as the ridge on the tail that looks regenerated (not sure if leachies regenerate, but that's what it looks like)...it looks like the same animal. Not to mention how the head curves to the right in all the pictures, just as the OP said.

And I do find it interesting that the pictures only show the "good" side of the body and do an excellent job of hiding the other side.

MAYBE that wasn't intentional. Just a fluke that all the seller's pictures only show the healthy looking side? BUT...if that's the case...why wouldn't the seller look at the two sets of pictures and think, "He looks healthy in my pictures, but I'm only seeing one side...maybe I did miss something?" Instead, he automatically accuses the buyer of trying to rip him off and refuses to give him any sort of benefit of the doubt.

Kyle...do you have any other pictures that show this gecko from the right and/or from above?

 

[WHKRAZYK]

WOW you kids really are RETARDED, every one thinks they are matlock, looking for hidden clues that arent there lol. First off if you kids know sooooo much about leachies why dig through my photobucket and post pics of my gargoyl????? Second that was just one photo shoot I was doing when I was trying to learn how to get clear photos that show the eyes and body, I was trying to create a light box, if you look at like the other 500 pics on there most of them are the same. I didnt move the leachie around or anything I just put him up there waited for him to be still then snatched a few photos then put him back....DUH......Next I deleted my add when I sold the leachie, im sorry thats such a suspitious act......Also that is not a regenerated tail, thanks for opening your mouth without having a clue what you are talking about, dig through my photobucket all you want, bad mouth me, do whatever In dont care, I know I am in the right, and you guys have nothing better to do but try to play sherlock holmes and when you come up empty handed you start making stuff up, im done with this thread, Ive stated my argument and shot down every ignorant excuse yall could come up with, as well as put up 19 or so references that loved doing business with me..............Thanks..............Kyle

 

[JudyC]

Ahhh, class act, Kyle. Why can't you just post up some pictures of that gecko that show the other side of the body? Is that such an unreasonable request? Is your reputation as an honest person not worth doing that simple task?

And...just to point out to the guy who is so incensed at being "nit picked"...I didn't say the tail was regenerated, I was pointing out the ridge in the tail as a physical characteristic to help match the photos. Whatever I might lack in proper terminology has nothing to do with the fact that you're behaving like someone who is completely freaked out at being scrutinized. Why would that be?

 

[Keith N]

WOW you kids really are RETARDED, every one thinks they are matlock, looking for hidden clues that arent there lol. First off if you kids know sooooo much about leachies why dig through my photobucket and post pics of my gargoyl????? Second that was just one photo shoot I was doing when I was trying to learn how to get clear photos that show the eyes and body, I was trying to create a light box, if you look at like the other 500 pics on there most of them are the same. I didnt move the leachie around or anything I just put him up there waited for him to be still then snatched a few photos then put him back....DUH......Next I deleted my add when I sold the leachie, im sorry thats such a suspitious act......Also that is not a regenerated tail, thanks for opening your mouth without having a clue what you are talking about, dig through my photobucket all you want, bad mouth me, do whatever In dont care, I know I am in the right, and you guys have nothing better to do but try to play sherlock holmes and when you come up empty handed you start making stuff up, im done with this thread, Ive stated my argument and shot down every ignorant excuse yall could come up with, as well as put up 19 or so references that loved doing business with me..............Thanks..............Kyle

And yet you still have not posted anything to back up your claims. Numerouse people have asked you to post your pics of it and still nothing but useless rants. At this point if I was reading this I would buy a Leachie from him rather than you.

 

[Keith N]

If you would post pics to back up your claim then I would question the op about this post http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164001

 

[AbsoluteApril]

Kyle, can you please post any pictures you took of the leachie that show the other side?

 

[MikeCurtin]

http://geckoforums.net/itrader.php?u=19249
Here are 16 or so satisfied customers from a well known gecko forum,
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158324&highlight=whkrazyk
another happy customer
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143865&highlight=kyle+hiner
And there's 2 more
This is the only person ive ever had try to go this far on a scam, I HAVE NEVER DONE ANYONE WRONG(Judy dont nit pick at that) and I will not be scammed again, so he will not be recieving a refund, and if anyone doesnt want to do business with me over this then its a reflection of your own shallow behaviors, and im probably better off staying away from you!
All I have to say..................Kyle

Hmmmm....I seem to see a pattern of people here who sell bad animals, and then try to point out all the "good deals" they've had. Kyle, you're not the first, and won't be the last. Ever produce anything yourself, or do you just buy and try to flip animals for a profit with no concern for their well-being?

You may be better off staying away from us, indeed. We won't lie down and pay for your garbage without letting the public know about it. FYI, this thread will be here for a long time to come so that one and all can see what kind of tool you are.

Proof of bolded claim please.

Well....do you have any proof that the OP receives all those deformed geckos as you claim? Do you have any photos of the animal in question that shows both front limbs at the same time? Anything???

 

[Cp3_Pythons]

WOW you kids really are RETARDED, Thanks..............Kyle

Umm Personal attack on another member I feel attacked because I may or may not be of normal intelligence But I Now know who NOT TO DO BUSINESS WITH Someone who acts as immature in handling a situation that could of been handled with ease the leachie you sent her may or may not be the one you sent the OP. As of now any person at or below normal intelligence can see you have yet to back up your claim that it is not the leachie you sent. Acting in such a hostile way just worsens the case against you making the people who read this thread belive it is your I PERSONALLY BELIVE YOU DID SEND THE LEACHIE IN QUESTION Just because of your actions alone.
It is what it is, Im sure the OP will never see a refund from you. Which is really up on your part having "So many good deals with your customers" You would think you would want to add another "good deal" instead of having this thread showing you sending less than quality animals and handling this situation (which would and could of been easily resolved) Like a complete irresponsible Child.......
BAD BUSINESS ETHICS

 

[rabernet]

Note to self - do NOT buy from Kyle Hiner - he'll only make excuses if there are any problems.

Kyle, you may not realize it - but there are a LOT of people who do not post and read these forums to decide who they will and will not do business with, based on how they handle both good and bad deals.

Based on your participation in this thread, you come across as someone who thinks throwing a temper tantrum is the best approach.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who's been reading who has made a mental note to avoid you.

 

[charmer]

As a matter of fact...

I am a lurker most of the time in the BOI keeping my eye out for folks I do not wish to do business with in the future and I've made a mental note of this thread as well. This was handled very badly by the seller and does not help promote his side of the story, nor his business ethics, well. Behaviour alone in a situation like this can tilt the tables in the other person's behalf... and that is what I see here. I must say, it's too bad no real effort appears to have been made by the seller to defend himself in THIS situation. He honestly had a chance to provide some details to back up his claim, but neglecting to do it is what really is damaging him here.

Also, Kyle, note that past experiences don't solve a current issue, but will lend you credence if you attempt to support your case maturely... In this situation, brandishing those experiences immediately instead of discussing the real issue was a mistake; as well as demeaning everyone that was commenting on the thread, by insulting their intelligence or age.

 

[Cp3_Pythons]

I am a lurker most of the time in the BOI keeping my eye out for folks I do not wish to do business with in the future and I've made a mental note of this thread as well. This was handled very badly by the seller and does not help promote his side of the story, nor his business ethics, well. Behaviour alone in a situation like this can tilt the tables in the other person's behalf... and that is what I see here. I must say, it's too bad no real effort appears to have been made by the seller to defend himself in THIS situation. He honestly had a chance to provide some details to back up his claim, but neglecting to do it is what really is damaging him here.

Also, Kyle, note that past experiences don't solve a current issue, but will lend you credence if you attempt to support your case maturely... In this situation, brandishing those experiences immediately instead of discussing the real issue was a mistake; as well as demeaning everyone that was commenting on the thread, by insulting their intelligence or age.

Well Spoken

 

[Aaron Mattson]

Call me Sherlock, Mattlock, Rockford, Magnum P.I., Columbo, Clouseau or whatever you want. What I see is this, in post #16 by polasian there are six photos showing the left side of one gecko which looks to be the same gecko posted by the OP. The gecko in those six photos appears unable to hold it's head off the ground and is laying in a very odd position. Then there is one photo showing the right side of a gecko that is obviously not the same specimen as is shown in the other six photos. In fact it looks like it is not even the same species of gecko as that shown in the other six photos. Additionally, the gecko in the one photo is on a styrofoam backround and the gecko in the other six photos is on a different backround.

To me this looks like a very obvious attempt to hide the right side of the gecko in the six photos and subsitute it with another gecko in the lone photo. Which strongly indicates the seller was aware of the deformity prior to the sale and attempted to hide it.

That will be $200 a day plus expenses and yes I do put whiskey in my coffee when I'm on stakeouts.

 

[Jaybee]

Call me Sherlock, Mattlock, Rockford, Magnum P.I., Columbo, Clouseau or whatever you want. What I see is this, in post #16 by polasian there are six photos showing the left side of one gecko which looks to be the same gecko posted by the OP. The gecko in those six photos appears unable to hold it's head off the ground and is laying in a very odd position. Then there is one photo showing the right side of a gecko that is obviously not the same specimen as is shown in the other six photos. In fact it looks like it is not even the same species of gecko as that shown in the other six photos. Additionally, the gecko in the one photo is on a styrofoam backround and the gecko in the other six photos is on a different backround.

To me this looks like a very obvious attempt to hide the right side of the gecko in the six photos and subsitute it with another gecko in the lone photo. Which strongly indicates the seller was aware of the deformity prior to the sale and attempted to hide it.

That will be $200 a day plus expenses and yes I do put whiskey in my coffee when I'm on stakeouts.

I'm definitely not defending Kyle; the odd gecko out of those pics is a gargoyle gecko (different species) - however, I didn't see it claimed anywhere in this thread or in quoted ads that Kyle was saying that was a leachie. Polasian was the person who found those pics as a group in Kyle's (?) photobucket account, I think that's the only reason there's a garg in with the leachie pics.

 

[dinodaddy]

update

"Littlefoot" is eating, and is receiving calcium glubionate every other day. She is in a very secure (painted sides) enclosure with a 2.0 UV bulb. It's all I can do. The wonderful woman who produced "littlefoot" has confirmed that this is her animal, and that it hatched out, and was sold in perfect health. The only possible way these deformities could have occurred is over a long period of improper humidity AND diet...

As far as switching the animal...I'm flabbergasted you'd accuse me of that--I occaisionally take animals from larger breeders that they are planning to euthanize. Since alot of my friends are nurses or in the caretaking fields; I sometimes act as a "rescue" for unsellable animals that hatch out with/develop issues...I do not permanently keep animals with special needs, I can't afford to do that, I am a breeder. I do my best to rehabilitate them, and give them (for free) to whomever I feel will love them and take proper care of them. I do not have any distorted/deformed animals in my collection, other than this sweet little female I just received from Kyle. This is a husbandry/nutritional issue--you can 'arrest' the deformities; but the skeletal damage is irreversible...but Rhacodactylus are very resilient geckos, and "Littlefoot" will be my constant reminder to screen (with extreme scrutiny) any potential buyers of the animals I produce in the future. These are living creatures...not to be objectified...and/or treated like this. Leachies require more attention when growing out than cresteds and gargs. Leachies are much more finicky eaters, and need to be consistantly observed to know they are eating enough/properly...they can go from 3-4g at hatch; to 100g in their first year alone...

the universe works in mysterious ways, and I feel like this poor female couldn't have gone to a better person, I just wish it wouldn't have costed me half my months income...

Brian Grussing

 

[dinodaddy]

correction

he admitted to me in a email that he gets 10 or so deformed geckos a month from leachie breeders, so how am I to know that I wont be getting one of those in the mail, I have raised dozens of different gecko species and have never had a problem because I do extinsive research on my animals before I get them, she was fed a leachie diet from rapashy, one that I know multiple leachie breeders use.

10 babies every month!?! I simply couldn't do that. Maybe 10 animals per year...do you even know how few babies leachie pairs produce every year/season? (if you're lucky enough to produce any at all). Actually, I take mostly leopard geckos and some beardies, I have only received 2 deformed leachies in the last 5 years...they were deformed as hatchlings...right out of the egg. I raised/rehabbed them as best as I could, and they are now happy and as healthy as can be with their new mommas

@Kyle: I wouldn't send you this animal back if you refunded me quadruple...she would just suffer the rest of her life...I just wanted you to 'make it right' by admitting what is so, and giving me at least a partial refund. I only asked for a full refund after you refused to call/email/work with me, and then denied she had issues. The breeder/person who produced "Littlefoot" is saddened and appalled, and wholeheartedly believes I should receive a full refund. But it seems accountability is an endangered species in this hobby...

Brian Grussing

 

[dinodaddy]

comparison

Here is another Pine Isle gecko from the same dam and sire, she is perfectly formed and healthy:

and for comparison, here is "Littlefoot" from a similar perspective:

...you still can't see the deformities??? her front right leg is not even half the size it should be, and she has a permanently tilted head and neck...I would not joke about something like this...

Brian Grussing