Kyle VanderHoff

[jkuroski]

Here's the story, you be the judge.

Jim Kuroski wrote:
Hey nice water...thanks for offering it up for sale. What payment
options do you accept?
If it is M.O. or check only, I need some referneces first please.

Thanks, Yes this one was the biggest out of the clutch so you got
a real good deal. I accept Personal check and Money order. With a
personal check i will have to wait for it to clear before i ship
the animal out because i just sold a adult savannah to some guy in
TN and he sent me a check and it bounced and i still havent got my
money. I can send you 2 more pictures of him if you want. Anyways
the address is XXXXXXXXXX.

Jim Kuroski wrote:
Kyle, could I get a phone number to contact you at? And yes, please send the other pictures.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64697

Yeah Sure. Would You Like my cell phone number or Home or Work? If
you would rather talk to me in person (well on the phone) thats
fine. Its Just I wished i knew you a little more before i started
giving you my phone number and stuff.

Jim Kuroski wrote:
Kyle,
The reason I am asking for a phone number is because I don't
know you either. I have been in this hobby for several years now,
and have never been scammed out of my money or reptiles. The
reason for this is that I am very careful about who I deal with. I
am asking for your phone number so that I can call you and verify
that you are who you say you are and so forth. You don't have any
feedback on the website where you are selling this monitor, and
you never provided any references for me as I asked in the first
email to you. I would be very happy to do business with you, and
can mail the M.O. out on Monday, but I need a little cooperation
on your part first. Let me ask you a few other questions while I
have your attention. First, you say in the classified that this is
a cbb animal and later backup that statement by saying it was the
largest in the clutch. Did you produce this water personally? Also
do you know a James Chilcutt? If you need any info about me just
ask any of the people at the forum below which I own and operate. I look forward to having that little bugger in my collection soon.

Jim,
James Chilcutt is my The home owner of the house I live in, He is
My Step Brother and we are starting are own business in breeding
herps. Yes I Produced This Animal Myself Along with Flavi X Argus
Monitors, Savannahs,White throats. I can Give you email addresses
Of the People I have done Business With and you can ask them About
me and The quality of my animals.This is my first time selling on
reptibid and i personally dont like it because people try to rip
you off to much. I usally use Fauna and Kingsnake. If your Trying
to get me to ship out the animal before i get payment it wont
happen. the Last monitor i sold i got ripped off by Troy from
Exotics to Aquatics. He owes me 265$ for a adult savannah and 2
bearded dragons. My Phone Number is.
Also can you start emailing me at
because this is my work email address and i
only come on here when im at work.
If you are still not sure there are many ways around such as using
UPS ground and making it so i have to sign for the package. This
way when i get the money and for some reason i dont send the
monitor than you can call St Clair Shores Police Department and
Tell them My address and put a warrant out for me and they will
come get me.. I know all this because I am dealing with it all
because of that Troy guy. By doing this it will proof that i
recieved the money.
By the way what state are you in?

Jim Kuroski wrote:
Kyle,
That will suffice, I will be sending out a postal M.O. on
Monday to the address you provided. Thanks!
Jim

Jim,
Email me and let me know when you send the MO out. I would like to
have the money by Thursday so i dont have to wait till monday to
ship him out.
Thanks,
Kyle

Jim Kuroski wrote:
I will be mailing it out today at around noon with overnight delivery.
Alright I will Ship him out tomorrow then. I fed him a pretty big
fuzzy mouse sunday so he will have food in his belly when he
arrives to you. What size tank are you going to be putting him in?
right now i have him in a 20 gallon.
and remember dont let the temps fall below 80. Water monitor babys
choose not to bask so its very important you keep the temps up so
he dont get sick.
thanks,
Kyle

Jim Kuroski wrote:
Kyle,
I can't wait till it gets here. It's a very beautiful monitor.
I have worked with others kinds of monitors briefly most just
passing through on trades. I have worked with juvi and adult
Niles, and juvi Argus and Savs; but never a water. They are my
favorite monitor. I will be housing it in a 20 to start and have a
75 after than, then a 8x8x8 room when it's big enough. I am pretty
versed on monitor husbandry, but I will read up on salvator a
little more just to be sure. Thanks again...
The MO tracking number is 19789245346 coming to you on DHL.
I'm not sure if you got my previous email, but I was wondering if
you could ship him to my at my work, so I can be there to receive
him and then take him home. The address would be XXXXXXXXXXX.

Jim
Yup I got your other email and i will send him to that address.
Ive owned almost every kind of monitor out there besides a
kimberly rock monitor and i have to say that water monitors and
savannahs are my absolute favorite. They are almost naturally tame
and when you handle them daily they will get even tamer, To the
point where they will fall asleep in your arms. I am very relieved
knowing you have the space to house him. that 8x8x8 room is going
to be perfect and he will use every inch of it. In his first year
he will grow about 3-4 feet and then a foot per year after that so
that should give you a idea on how fast you will have to move him
into that 75 gallon. The only thing with this guy is that he is a
little bit of a picky eater. The only things i can get him to eat
is live fuzzy mice and scrambled eggs. The mice have to be live or
else he wont even show a intrest. but sometimes with live mice he
will kill the it and not eat it but when he does this dont take
the mouse out of the cage. give him a few minutes and he will eventually eat it. With the scrambled eggs just crack a egg into a frying pan and
scramble it. dont add any butter or milk. I hope you dont think im
busting your balls or trying to tell you how to take care of your
new pet its just i want him to go to a good home. If you have any
other questions just email me and I will send you the tracking
number as soon as i send him out.
Thanks,
Kyle.

Jim Kuroski wrote:
Have you tried SDZ diet? Also will he take crickets, mealworms, or roaches? If he only takes live mice and eggs, that's fine as well. I breed my own mice, for a few stubborn non-rat feeding snakes, and always have plenty.
Thanks again...

Hey,
I got your MO but could not ship out the lizard today because i got off work at 6 and had to go buy heat packs and there was just no time so tomorrow i will take him to work with me and ship him from there! He will have 2 heat packs so he will be nice and warm the whole ride. Here in michigan its like 17 degrees with 7 inches of snow. I havent tried SDZ diet but then again i never use that with any of my monitors. When he was smaller he would eat crickets and mealworms but now he doesnt show any interest in them. Hes like why would I chase all these little bugs when i could refuse them and get a nice fat fuzzy mouse? If i was him i would do the same thing. You can try roaches maybe he will eat them but if he doesnt you will be fine with fuzzy mice and scrambles eggs. he is a picky eater but feeds really well on those to items. Is he going to be a breeder or a pet? because he loves to get in the bath tub and swim around for 10-20 minutes. i usally do this 2-3 times a week.

What kind of substrate will you be using?

Thanks, sorry i couldnt send him out today but tomorrow for sure and i will email you around 3 or 4 p.m with the tracking number ( UPS comes at 3-4 p.m. at my work because we ship things out daily)

Jim Kuroski wrote:
That's fine about the shipping. Maybe I will try some different things with him and see how it goes. At least I know what he will eat for sure. For now he will just be a pet. Maybe when he gets older and I see him evert or not, I may look for one of the opposite sex. I plan on offering a large water basin as well as soaking him. I am probably going to start off with cypress mulch or a soil mix, but I am going to eventually keep him on decomposed granite if I can find some close to here that is to my liking. I have read wonders about that stuff for holding burrows and egg laying. I will also be adding a little Retes stack that I had built several years ago. Believe me, it will be very well taken care of.

Hey Jim,
The tracking number is 1Z4171490145372964
IT COST 26$ TO SHIP TO TX!!!!
thats crazy but no problem. Hope your happy with the little guy hes awesome


Jim Kuroski wrote:
Kyle,
Hey man, we have a bit of a problem. The monitor arrived on-time, but not alive. Why did you pack it in such a small internal box with two heat packs taped to it? Those things average 135F and peak out at 165F. The box was warm when it arrived and I knew the monitor was dead before I even opened it from the smell. You really cooked the heck out of that beautiful thing. I am really disappointed and a bit upset that you would let that happen to a monitor you liked so much. I also am going to request my money back for him. I paid $149 for the money order plus $20 to overnight it to you. I would like the $145 purchase price back, and we will both be out the additional $25 odd dollars.

I have attached the photos that I said I would send. If you do not contact me within a few days, I will have to report this to the forums and the BOI. Don't let a single mistake ruin your name in this business. We need to talk.

Jim,
Damnit. Well as you can tell from the address I didnt pack it up and ship it my wife did From her work. ****, I told her he needed hand wamers and i guess thats what she did. The internal box wasnt to small its just it was for having 2 heatpacks taped on to it and the the insulation from the stuff in between the internal and external box. We didnt work out a live arrival garuntee or anything like that but I will try and get the 145$ back to you because that is what i would want to happen if i recieved a DOA. I could either do thas or send you another one and ill ship it personally and pay for shipping..its just that was a pretty big loss for me and a really stupid mistake on my part because my wife doesnt know anything about shipping reptiles. You know that If I have The experience to breed these animals than i would know better. You can give me the back feedback i deserve but i will still strike some sort of a deal with you. Those pictures kill me to look at. This was a real waste of a awesome animals life. Alright so email me back to work something out.
Once Again Sorry,
Kyle

Jim Kuroski wrote:
Kyle,
I am open to whatever you want to do. If you have another water monitor, that would be ideal, but if not then maybe something else. I know we did not have a live arrival guarantee, but I appreciate your understanding in the matter. If the money is already spent, I am fine with giving you some time to come up with it as well. Let me know what you think.
Jim

03/05/2005 12:46PM
alright Give me a few days to think of something and i will get back to you

---multiple email attempts

03/21/2005 2:13PM
Jim Kuroski wrote:
Kyle, this is the last time I am going to attempt to contact you before I pursue other actions. I have given you adequate time to reply to my messages, and have been more than understanding about this matter. I am neither stupid, nor uneducated and plan on acting on this matter until it is resolved to my satisfaction. Be warned that this will go further than you might wish it to go if you do not reply to this message. All I am asking for is what is rightfully mine. You improperly packaged an animal which was no ones fault but your own and I should not be the one that is out money for your lack of experience and ignorance. If you would have come clean and said that your don't know how to ship instead of playing like your some big-time monitor breeder than maybe this wouldn't have happened. Every time I asked you a question, you gave me a half --- newbie answer that I knew was bull----. If it wasn't for the fact that the monitor was such a nice specimen, I would have never done business with you. People like you are what make this hobby bad for everyone else. Return my money or this email at least, or you will be hearing from me in a most unexpected way I assure you.
Jim

---Posted bad feedback after no return emails

Jim,
Sorry I wasnt here,
We did not make any live arrival garuntee so therefore i am not returning your money plus you already gave me a bad name.

Jim Kuroski wrote:
I am glad you are such a standup guy Kyle...thanks for stealing my money!

I am glad I went out of town and you decided to just go ahead and trash my name so i dont have to pay you 155$ Thanks alot for that. You saved me some cash

End of conversation, thought I would share my great experience.

 

[Jim O]

Jim,

Live guarantee or not, incompetence is incompetence. I understand that there can be shipping delays and accidents and that there is a risk. But what if he just shipped you a dead animal? Is his excuse that there was no live arrival guarantee so tough luck?

Then, of course, he went back on his word, first promising to make you whoe, then refusing to do so. I guess he spent the money and thought better of it.

And to hide in a woman's skirts!! (No offense meant to the women out there, it's just an expression.)

Bad guy!!!!

 

[Jim O]

make you "whole" not "whoe". Maybe I was thinking of him....

 

[mindcrash]

Jim,

That really stinks. Your out the cash plus an animal was needlessly killed.

I guess Kyle Vanderhoff will be added to the list of people I'll never deal with.

Another reason while I'll only use a credit card to pay people, at least you have a chance at recovering your money.

 

[mindcrash]

Also, it amazes me that he accuses you of trashing his name when it was his actions that led to that in the first place.

 

[connorrm]

Terrible

Jim,


Another reason while I'll only use a credit card to pay people, at least you have a chance at recovering your money.

That is really terrible that this happened. WHat a beautiful animal. I have never had to ship an animal yet and I really hope that my first attempt won't be so rotton. Is it true though if you pay with a CC you have a chance at getting the money back? How so? Sorry if this is off topic but i might just start doing that instead.

 

[reptilebreeder]

The wife shipped it, first of all I don't believe that for a minute. This guy has scammer written all over him. Probably packed it himself, and when the animal dies he has his built in excuse. Typical scammer M.O.
On the slim chance that he really did let his wife, with no experience whatsoever, pack and ship a live reptile, then maybe he wasn't initially a scammer....just to stupid to be in this business.

So which is it, Kyle? You a scammer from the gitgo, or to stupid to be in this business. The outcome is the same either way, we'd just like to know for the heck of it.
Jim, I'm curious how come you asked about this other guy, James Chilcutt. Is he someone into monitors that you know, or did some info, like phone number or address show that name? Just wondering if it's a name we should add to our scumbag lists along with Kyle (you know how the bad guys always have some "business" partner or relative causing problems) or is it an innocent person you know that is not involved.

Lastly, what a scum bucket. Who doesn't guarantee live arrival, especially when it is ABSOLUTLY, POSITIVELY, WITHOUT EXCEPTION YOUR FAULT the animal died. Not the delivery company, not anybody else's fault, period.

 

[Jim O]

John,

Of the two possibilites it comes down to whether the animal was alive when it went into the box.

If the animal was alive when it was shipped then he is too stupid to be in the business because either he packed it that way or allowed his wife to pack it without giving her any instructions.

If it was dead when it went in the box (as in just out of his freezer), well then we know what he is.

If he is too stupid then he may be educable. But until he makes Jim 100% whole (Jim was more than generous in his offer) he's a bad guy.

Either way, put him on the "Do not do business with this person" list.

Kyle, come out of your little hole now and tell us how you will take care of Jim and how you have learned you lesson.

 

[mindcrash]

That is really terrible that this happened. WHat a beautiful animal. I have never had to ship an animal yet and I really hope that my first attempt won't be so rotton. Is it true though if you pay with a CC you have a chance at getting the money back? How so? Sorry if this is off topic but i might just start doing that instead.

You can dispute the transaction with your credit card company. They will investigate your claim and if they rule in your favor they will credit the charge back to the card. I am going through this process now for a couple of geckos that came in DOA.

 

[connorrm]

actually....after re-reading this...I believe in the barrage of emails it said he knew the monitor was dead because he could smell it. Now...how long does it take for a monitor to die from over heating? If the package was only in transit for a short time it shouldn't have been that smelly yet correct. I am an avid hunter, (please no AR junk), and I have a heated garage. I can leave a fresh kill in my garage for about 12 hours (say I killed the deer at 6 am and come back to quarter it at 6 pm or later) and it doesn't smell at all. I don't know if all that heat helped speed the process but it does seem highly likely by the fact he could smell it that the monitor could have been shipped already dead. JMO.

 

[Jim O]

Ryan,

I think that reptiles may decompose somewhat more quickly than mammals. But even if they don't, heat your garage to 135-165F and see what happens in 12-18 hours. I'm guessing it would not be pretty. Not that this proves anything. He may be a scammer or he still may be "too stupid to be in the business". Covering his tracks in shipping a dead animal by cooking it in transit would be a possibility. It could still go either way.

Kyle, come out and tell us what happened? Are you stupid or are you a scammer?

 

[ldydrgn]

Was it a postal M.O.? If so, couldn't you report this and file federal charges?

 

[pch101]

The scrambled eggs and fuzzie mice should have been a HUGE red flag (horrible Water Monitor diet)! Not to mention all of his claims about his monitor breeding successes. He sounds like a little scammer to me as well. If you sent with a postal money order, you might be able to take some action with that. Who is the guy that he says he is partners with? Do you know him?

 

[pch101]

Kyle's reluctance to give you a phone number, yet quickness to point out that there was no live arrival guarantee (once he was informed of the situation), tells me that this was more than likely a pre-planned scam for him to recover his losses from his dead monitor that he probably killed from a bad diet of mice and eggs (or maybe some other bad husbandry practices). I realize this is pure speculation. At best kyle is just stupid, but I tent to think he has some scammer in his blood as well.

Kyle, If you are worried about your reputation, you should make this right. This will not go away. It will always be here. If you leave it this way, it is only going to hurt your business.

Mr. Kuroski, can you tell us where Kyle is located, or his e-mail that he uses to conduct business? The more we know about this clown, the better for all of us. You may also want to send him a link to this thread so that he can see that you have followed through with your promise to post this here.

 

[jkuroski]

Thanks for the comments guys. James Chilcutt was the name that came up when I reverse phone numbered to find his address and be a bit detective like. He said he was related to him or something and going into business so I would definately not deal with either of them.

Kyle's info...

30033 Gloria
St. Clair Shores, MI 48082

(586) 296-8765

[email protected]

Goes by: Voodoo Cild here.
Goes by: Slowhand on Reptibid.

 

[Aprylla]

Here is the info I have about this kid, thought I would help if I could at all, at least in reinforcing the fact that this kid is not someone that anyone should do business with.

This guy has *several* Reptibid User IDs. I know because I helped the Webmaster to bust him bidding on his own items (one of which was the water monitor under a different User ID). He goes by Reptibid IDs of: Slowhand, Kyleiscool and Binladenisgay and possibly more. He has been *banned* at least 3 times by the Webmaster of Reptibid and hopefully this time has been banned for good. He has been told that he is not welcome there for sure, due to his "shill bidding" on his own items (this is easily verified by e-mailing the Reptibid Webmaster if anyone wants/needs to double check). He also used the same e-mail address on all of his Reptibid accounts (duh!).

That water monitor is one that he originally purchased on Reptibid in early February from user ID: Erd, Auction Item # 1108006894. I am sure that this user (Erd) would confirm that is the same one. It is definitely the same one if you compare the pictures of the dead one and the one he had posted on his auctions. This guy who sold it to the one who posted this thread even used the *exact same* pic of the water monitor on his auctions that the guy he'd bought it from had used. So him saying that he is the one who bred it himself is utterly ridiculous.

I figured he was one of the "bad seeds" when I figure out he was bidding on his own stuff, but didn't post on the BOI about it since I was not directly involved in a transaction with him.

Hope this helps.

 

[Jim O]

Well, now we know, He's not in the "too stupid to be in the business" category. He's been outed as a liar and a shill bidder. There is little doubt left that he is in the SCAMMER category.

Here's your sign, Kyle:

 

[Aprylla]

I only wish I'd have caught his Reptibid ID of "Slowhand" quicker, and reported him to the Webmaster sooner, so he'd have been banned again faster and this transaction wouldn't have happened.

That was truly a gorgeous water monitor and I hate that it had to suffer such a miserable death. It's a total shame that some people don't take the time to learn or find out how to ship something; thereby killing the poor thing with their own ignorance.

 

[Jim O]

Aprylla,

It's as likely it was dead when it went in the box as anything else. His husbandry "skills" may have killed it.

That he would have packaged a dead animal in a way to make it look like it died in transit does not seem out of character at all.

 

[pch101]

Nice work Aprylla. Next time do not feel like you have to have a personal dealing with him to post it here. If you catch someone in a scam, report it so we can all be on the look out for that person. Everyone will be glad you did (everyone but the actual scammer that is). Anyway, it looks like he is a proven scammer, and like Jim O said, it is looking more and more like he may have intentionally shipped an already dead monitor in order to screw his customer/victim out of his hard earned money. This would be a typical scammer solution to get back the money that is lost due to an unexpected reptile death. When you read the correspondences it just get a feeling of premeditation. Then again, in addition to being a lying scammer, maybe he is also actually really stupid enough to pack the monitor in such a way as to kill it. While I agree that he is stupid, I do not think he is that stupid. One thing for sure, he should be avoided at all costs. The same is true for his step brother/partner.