Lacy Act

[TooManyBurmese]

Could someone point me to a link of a laymans terms Lacy act?

 

[David R.]

Good luck! I wish there was such a link, but I don't think there is one. I have indeed had the Lacey Act explained to me by a Federal Fish & Wildlife officer which was a bad idea, becaused it confused me even more. However, I have also had some personal "bad" experience with the Lacy Act. Thus, I feel somewhat qualified to speak a little about it. Most collectors and/or dealers on this board violate the Lacy Act almost every time they ship herps "out of state", which for most people would be most of their shipments.

Let me give you a simple example: Let's say I purchased a imported Ball Python from a importer/dealer. The Ball Python had been legally imported into the states. (In this example you can switch the imported Ball for one that was "ranch born", or captive breed and born here in the states.) In any case, you purchase the ball python from me and I ship it to you to your location which happens to be "out of state". It does not matter what shipping company you request or which shipping company that I indeed use. It can be be UPS, Fed-Ex, DHL, Delta, US Air, etc. The Lacey Act clearly states that any reptile shipment crossing state lines must be labeled with the exact contents: Common & scientific name of each herp, as well as the quantity of each. As per the Lacey Act, this has to be clearly marked on the outside of the box, and not simply listed on a packing list inside the box. Still using the Ball Python as an example, if I ship it to you and the box is simply labeled as "Live Harmless Reptiles", I have violated the Lacey Act and "YOU" will violate the Lacey Act if you accept the shipment. If does not matter at all if the shipping company states that it is OK with them if your shipment is simply labeled as "Live Harmless Reptiles". No shipping company policy can override the "Federal" Lacey Act when it comes to labeling shipments!!!

Now you ask how do I know what I'm talking about? Remember, I stated that I had "personal experience" with the Lacey Act labeling requirements. A number of years ago during a "sting" operation I was busted by the Feds for violating the Lacey Act requirement. I was the "RECEIVER" of a captive bred and born African Rock Python that was shipped to me via overnight shipping and labeled simply as "Live Harmless Reptile". The shipper happened to be the "Feds", but that is really beside the point. I would have been just as quilty if "Joe Blow Reptile Company" had shipped the animal to me. Of course, I know some of you will have the mind set that you are only guilty if you get caught.

In closing, with budget cuts and so on, I doubt if the Feds will ever have another major "sting" operation that will target people simply for Lacey Act labeling violations. In recent years, Federal stings have targeted people who were dealing in endangered animals or animals that have been imported illegally. But, just think for a second how easy it would be for the Feds to conduct a sting operation simply to bust people for the Lacey Act. All they would have to do is come here or go to Kingsnake and look at the classifieds. Then order a few Balls, Iguanas, Rat snakes or whatever. When they arrive and are simply labeled as "Live Harmless Reptiles, then "BAM" you're busted! My fine was $1,000.00 by the way.

David Rivers

 

[evansnakes]

The Lacey act is not designed for shipping only. It is basically a tool for the government to use to turn any local or state violation into a federal matter to intensify penalties and put them in more of a position of power for bargaining with pleas with offenders. Shipping is a valid concern but you have to realize how out of hand the potential use of this regulation is.

Every time that vendor at a herp show goes to another state to do a show and they take animals to display or sell they are potential victims of this vague and often misunderstood regulation. You see, basically, any time you violate any wildlife law or regulation and cross state lines, it is now also a Lacey act violation. So if there was no restriction on 6' constrictors in Texas but there was in California and you drove from Texas to California with a 6' boa, you have committed a Lacey act violation.

So you can imagine if they went around at a show and took ID's from everyone, most vendors would have in some minor way, incedentally broken little restrictions that nobody is aware even exist and because they crossed state lines they would be eligible for Lacey act violations as well.

 

[David R.]

Evan,

Good points! However, in my opinion the only thing that is currently "out of hand" with the Lacey Act is the number of shippers that violate it on a daily basis. I do agree however that there may be some "states" that attempt to turn "small deals" into "big Federal deals" when it comes to herp shippers/dealers.
When you was the last time you or any one on this board heard of the Feds busting someone for a Lacey Act labeling violation???
However, as I said in my earlier post if the Feds ever do decide to have another sting operation to target Lacey Act labeling violations, it would be a very, very easy AND profitable operation for them simply due to the number of shippers that violate this act on a daily basis!

Thank you.

David Rivers

 

[Karen Hulvey]

Have you ever noticed that many times wildlife law violators, no matter how small the violation, seem to get more slapped on them than someone dealing drugs?

Karen

 

[TooManyBurmese]

So if I understand the shipping aspect of it, if I want to ship a ball python from PA to MD, and I wrote on the box python regius X 1, I would be "safe"?

 

[evansnakes]

No. It would have to say "live harmless reptiles" on all sides and top and then it would have to say "1 ball python/ python regius"

 

[SpiralTailRanch]

Hrm.

Can someone please tell me how long the 'Lacey Act' has been enabled? I have never heard of it and shipped two reptiles quite recently.....

 

[David R.]

Don't really know exactly how long the "Lacey Act" has been around, but I started a herp business in the 70's and it was in place when I started.

Thank you.

David Rivers

 

[Double "D" Reptiles]

about 30 years +/-

The Lacy Act was put in place at about the same time as CITES was organized. I think, but not 100% certain that the Lacy Act was put in place in 1973 and CITES came into existence a few months later in 1974.

And yes, often times we hear of violations of both getting more arduous attention in law enforcement than drug violations. I really believe that this is due to the sensationalistic approach when the media gets involved. Also, I think that it is a response to the failure of "the war on drugs" that has failed so miserably. While a major drug manufacture/distrubution bust here 1 1/2 years ago caused a stir and the "kingpins" took a hit in federal court for less than 10 years, if I had gone out and violated the Lacy Act and/or CITES (not to mention applicable state regs) I would have been smeared all over the front pages across the state, would have received the maximum penalty available and even after being incarcerated it would have keeper "user of the drug called reptiles" to have problems for years to come. I truly believe that many of our values, as a nation, have become twisted and that the media (due to sensationalistic reporting for the purpose of higher ratings) have been the reason for some, if not a major amount, of the problems.

David

 

[tenneseejed]

Found this explaination

was looking for some info on the lacy act and came across your post,alittle bit late for the thread but heres the link to the site i found its pretty much an overall simple explaination of it http://pacific.fws.gov/news/2000/2000-98.htm