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Larry King Tonight

stats

"Russelli(the russells viper) kills an estimated 1000 individuals in India alone, thats only half its range. So PLEASE keep your crackpot statistics to yourself.
Jesse Smith"

name calling, wow , deep man, so lets play a game of stats , the poulation recorded in india? and surrounding region is how large? the surrounding region in the us one would find fire ants is? and its populations is? doesnt india have over 1.1 billion people? that would be 0.0000909% of the population died in half of its range.

the lower us states has 100 million or so? so thats a 0.00009 percent ratio in deaths by ant bites?

so the difference is -0.0000009 % in deaths between the two per capita?

1000 people in what time frame? just curious? if the stats on the russels is documented cool, good, doesnt mean i didnt see it, hear it. i am only regurging gathered info,

as far as telling me to hush, good luck buddy, you know me from diddly, i take orders from no one, spefically not from the pompous,
 
Here you go Tom !

http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/art...102071909990001

I used the term "dangling" in my comments. You wanted proof and pics. Well, go to the link above. I dont try and mislead anyone to my train of thought. Everyone has there one viewpoints and I respect that. BUT, anyone who has kids knows that they cant hold their heads up and are still developing muscles. Heck im not even sure if his sons soft spot is completely harden over yet. Steve is holding him with one arm, shaking a piece of meat in the other and a large Croc if front of him. SO, the baby is just sort of "dangling" in his other arm. OK, lets just rule out the whole "what if's". Regardless, that shows his lack of knowledge of a infant child. No one should be bouncing around a month old baby so freely. The head needs to be supported.

Hey, I was a Croc fan a long time ago. I taped just about every program. But clearly it seemed to go to his head after season 3 or so. After that I came to conclusion that hes a big headed show man and nothing more. This incident just reconfirms what Ive been feeling for several years now.

As far as the other commnets made here. Thats cool. BUT, I dont see why some of you have resorted to name calling over this. The bottomline is you agree or disagree with what happened.
 
Back in the day Marty Stoufer, Marlin Perkins and his faithful sidekick Jim did alot of work with wild animals..........the difference I never seen any of them hold wildcaught elapids or vipers by the tail for a photo shoot.

Irwin has alot of knowledge, I'll give him that but for lack of a better term he's a dumb ass. Risking his own life is one thing but even when juggling those wild hots if he gets nailed someone else has to enter that situation and save him risking their life.

For Irwin or anyone else to say he had control of that 14ft+ croc they're a damn fool. Anyone who has ever watched a documentary on crocs and gators is well aware of the side snap they use when twisting sideways for a meal. To set that child down and parade it past a croc that could have taken that child or Irwin was the most damaging and ignorant thing I've seen done to the reptile industry.

His showboat careless attitude and lack of concern for all those he works with in my opinion is reason enough to yank his ass off the air before kids are mimicking him and getting themselves hurt or killed. I always admired his charisma at the same time thinking he's an idiot...........opinion confirmed.

Should there be any doubt about the unpredictabilty of crocodilians and the lack of "control" there is on an animal of that size? Work with some a few years with that attitude and count your limbs at retirement.
 
Once again Damien, since you don't seem to "get it."

This was not an elusive and rare random encounter with a croc... it was a deliberate act of taking the kid and placing it in very close proximity to the animal. This drastically changes the potential risk inherent in the situation and makes any statistics about wild encounters or encounters in captivity *by qualified and educated ADULTS* completely meaningless.

I can pretty easily hook a hot snake too... The chances of my getting tagged are fairly low for each individual encounter. The chances rise drastically when there are multiple people involved. Especially if the other individuals are not as experienced. Especially if my attention is half on the animal, half on the other person. ESPECIALLY if that other person is essentially nothing more than a drooling deadweight that can barely find it's own feet or support it's own head much less react to any situation as it develops.

If you really want to get some kind of statistical idea of how dangerous this was, there is a very specific situation involved here. The animals need to be of approximate size. The animals need to be in a fairly contained space. There has to be a child below a reasonably similar age involved. The animal has to be given stimulus that provoke a feeding response. As was mentioned earlier, the only really similar situation that I have seen documented was the Serpentarium incident which had a rather unfortunate end. If you can come up with more of them, I'd be genuinely interested in seeing 'em.

If you seriously thought that I meant you were more likely to be eaten by a croc than get in a car accident, then either I can't write, you can't read or a combination of both. If you were being deliberately dense in order to avoid conceding the point, it's a rather juvenile position to assume, don't you think?
 
Soft spots

Well, I did a little research and found out that the soft spots that I referred to dont totally harden until 4-12 months of age. And baby's head and neck should ALWAYS be supported. If not, then this can cause serious issues.

OK Croc fans, lets forget about the potential risk with Steve having the baby in with a 14ft Croc while feeding it. Lets just for the sake of argument rule out the "what if's". The way Steve held his son in both the feeding and in the way he had him dance around in the Crocs pen (Steve actually danced the child and once again didnt support the neck or head) is NOT the proper way to hold a month old child. That leaves 2 facts. Either he is a complete dumb a$$ when it comes to knowledge of a infant child and should leave the parenting to someone else OR it was a stunt for the public to gain attention and he let the moment get the better of him judgement wise. You decide.
 
not quite

my point is simple, i never disagreed, i just dont agree, i find people subjecting their ideals onto others as wrong, and selfish, steves gone downhill, known fact, he's experienced, known fact, i read your statement just fine, the whole stat game is futile, that was the sarcastic point, in the one inncodent i am aware of that a father with strong ties to the animal world held his baby nearish to a croc, had no ill outcome, no death, no injury other than maybe audience and pride? so i see it as a succesful mistake that i see he may have learned from, i said in another thread my father does alot of buisiness in aulstralia, its been said the australians dont like him, think hes a farce, blah, blah , blah, i am curious as i hear the show isnt really found on their tv as it is oriented to the us ? all of my dad people there hadnt even the slightest clue as to who he even was, this was only a week before christmas he was last there and got this info,

again theres no info or stats on the what if this happened thing,
bad decision -yup
learning experience-yup

do you have hots? you seem to have some interest in them via your statements here,

if so do you keep them at home?

alot of people on here do

if you keep them at home you are risking you, your family, your neighbors, pets, friends, etc

does that make you a steve irwin?

how many times have you heard the old pit bull story, or the good old rottweiler story, you would think we would be out of children as many of those silly stories seem to surface, i have yet to meet a mean pit, or rott, ever!! yet they are being banned in lots of cities, iowa banned rotts because some stupid couple left their two week old baby unattended with their nieghbors two adult rotts for over an hour, they werent charged with any thing involved in the death of the child, the dogs of coarse were, that sucks, they should have held the same fate as the dogs!

i know a young lady in my town who was hit by her retic, she almost died, he was only 6 feet, it just happened to be a freak thing , as his hit was right dead on an artery, she lived but with lots of medical assistance, who would have thought ?

risks or not its his child, his ideals, and your opinions, and my opinions are exactly that, i am greatful we have them,

again this is only a retort to the i am better than you attitude. i was being obviously sarcastic and it would seem the only thing dense was for people to see it for what it wasn't

oh because and i quote"you dont seem to get it" or whatever
 
Just to add my two cents in. First of all, this croc is probably fed this way everyday for entertainment. I don't think the croc actually discerns the difference between Steve and the infant as it probably looks like just one big thing in front of him. All the croc cares about is getting fed. It's not like in the wild where they have to ambush for prey, he just walks up on land, mind you and not in the water, and just take handouts. Besides with the knowledge that someone like Steve has, it would be instinctive knowledge for him. I would have to process it somewhat slower and get a read on the animal, but he probably could recognize so much more than he could ever explain.

Scott Robinson
 
The fact remains that Irwin does come off as somewhat irresponsible in his handling of specimens. He IS giving many up and coming herpers the wrong message in regards to safety concerns when dealing with potentialy dangerous species. He takes the chances he does for the dramatic effect. This is just a little more of the drama. No nothing happened. However, as a role model (which he is to many younger viewers) these incidents should not come about. He did place his child in several dangerous positions during this particular incident. His choice...yes. As a parent and herpetologist I take precautions when children are present. If he simply wanted to "acclimate" his children to herps why not have his "photo op" with a hatchling croc? I've had too many incidents were specimens acted in unusual ways that were not the "norm" for that particular specimen. I don't have a problem with a little bit of paranoia. It's instinctive to be cautious. Our so call "gigantic" brains at times overide this! Just look at this... Usually he works with the crocs in a "private" scenario. No distractions. Safest way. Now the situation in this incident add... Cameras, crews, tourists, feeding, and baby in hand... Plenty of distractions and it just adds to the possibility of a mistake. It's not a matter of IF Irwin will make a mistake in the future it's when? It has now become the scenario of how much farther do you take it? The pressure to make more dramatic episodes may result in a mistake. JMHO
 
Below link is to the Australian laws pertaining to crocadiles. Unfortuantely my PDF converter is broken so you will need to view it in PDF. After opening got to " E" and read.

http://www.epa.qld.gov.au/publicati...rds_for_exhibiting_wildlife_in_Queensland.pdf

Please read # 6 Demponstrations and handling

" C " STATES CLEARLY :Over-dramatisation and sensationalism of crocodile behaviour has a negative impact on community perceptions of crocodiles and is not to be undertaken.

"F" Goes on to state Park visitors should not be presented with examples of inappropriate behavior that might be copied by some people. Explain that the presenter is an experianced handler and that it would be unsafe for a member of the pyblic to copy the actions of the presenter
 
Following on Joe's concern he also failed to realize the potential danger of infecting his young kid with Salmonella. One of the worst cases in US history happened with children in a Komodo dragon exhibit at the Denver Zoo.

SOURCE: The Journal of Pediatrics 1998;132;802-807.

In short:

NEW YORK (Reuters) -- In the first recorded outbreak of salmonellosis due to exposure to the bacteria at a zoo, 65 people who fell ill contracted the infection from a wooden barrier surrounding a reptile exhibit at a Denver zoo, according to a study in The Journal of Pediatrics.

Investigating the 1996 outbreak -- linked to a Komodo dragon exhibit -- the researchers tracked down 26 people who were diagnosed with salmonellosis shortly after visiting the exhibit. A total of 65 people reported falling ill after visiting the dragons. Most were children. The researchers also located 49 "controls," people who visited the exhibit but didn't fall ill.

The infected dragon "stood in fecally contaminated mulch and frequently placed (its) front paws on the tops of the barriers," the researchers noted in their study. "The visitors frequently touched these same barriers and most likely became infected when they later placed their contaminated hands in their mouths or cross-contaminated something they were eating."

Based on the infection rate among exhibit visitors included in the study, the researchers estimated that another 315 children probably contracted salmonellosis after visiting the dragons, but did not report falling ill.
Click to expand...
 
Joe,
I actually was not responding to your post and did not notice that you used the words. Also, I could not see the video link because I am not an AOL member. I have seen some moments where he fed the croc and danced around the kid, but that was it. My point was mainly that noone ever would have to "drag" a 1 month old into anything because the kid is so oblivious to the world, for #1- he would not object, #2 he's so small how do you drag something you pick straight up. As far as dangling the kid while he fed the croc. I disagree completely. The chicken was being dangled in front of the croc. What he was doind to the baby was holding it. I guess you can techinically say that his feet were dangling and since his arms might not of been up they were probably dangling too. I think we then could refer to the act of holding a child as "dangling". That is my only point. I think it is very deceptive for people to place words such as this into their viewpoint to help paint a false picture to help out their stance. It only tells me they are very emotional about the topic and that I should not listen to what they have to say due to their own form of propaganda. I don't think we need to lie to get people on the bandwagon since it is already a bandtrain. :D
As far as statistics go, how could you compare a professional entertainer and crocodile enthusiast who probably has had as much or more time physically in the vicinity of crocodiles as anyone, to that of a man setting his child on the fence and it falling in a crocodile enclosure. How much mist and smoke do we want. How about this? We can say that for everytime that a child was brought into crocodile enclosures by an experienced professional croc handler (twice, the original incident and the following day with Bindi Sue) that their was never an attack on handler or child. So statistically speaking we could say that their is a 100% chance that they would not be attacked. Would that be correct? No... Maybe for the propoganda specialist.
Their is enough damning evidence that all this other stuff is not needed. Either you agree that what he did was wrong or not... No need for deception. I also agree with what one said earlier also. Do any of you keep hots in the same house you raise a family or live with a wife? I would think the odds of survival would be way better being held by Steve for 3 minutes in the croc cage then living with your hots in "The House Of Venom and Horror"!!!!!! (propoganda) :dgrin:
By the way Joe I want to say thanks again for calling me regarding a Ghost Ball I had for sale. A friend of mine told me he had someone to buy it and came over to take a pic of it. I guess the buyer backed out and he put it up for sale. Joe noticed it was the same animal from two different pics on two different backgrounds (I always take pics on my comforter so you can at least compare color from my other pics). He then emailed me to make sure that I knew my Ball was being sold and that this wasn't someone scamming.. I thought it was very impressive that he noticed the particular snake and that he even checked it out for himself. If everyone's eyes were that wide open we would probably have alot less scam artists..:AR15firin Thanks again!
Tom Baker
 
No problem

Hi Tom,

No problem. As I stated before everyone has different view points and I respect that. I only stated mine. Dangling may be the wrong word to use, but thats the first word that came to mind, when I first saw the clip. Why ?? A baby that young should always be supported. Both neck and head. This was not done. So, to me seeing a babys feet, arms and head bouncing around when only being held in one arm, that falls in MY defination of dangling. I disagree with the whole event and have my own thoughts about Mr.Irwin. The bad press is well deserved in my mind. But, as we have seen time and time again, accidents happen to even the most knowledgable people in any givin field. As far as hots go, I have none and will have no hots in my house again. With 4 kids its to much of a risk to me no matter how many security measures I take. I wont even have a gun. BUT, I do carry a big bat !! LOL !!

And no problem on that Ghost. I just dont want anyone getting ripped off or scammed. It was a nice one. Should of got him darnit, I have a few females that probably wont be bred this year. Spider, Albinos and Pastels can only breed so many females. LOL !!
 
Larry King Tonight...my Two Cents

What Mr. Irwin did to his newborn is not nearly as deadly as some of these posts are to the English Language.
English as a second language should be the pre-requisite before one posts. I'm not saying we have to use the King's English, but we should be able to understand what you're trying to say.
What Steve Irwin did to his newborn son is a crime, plain ans simple. Had it been anyone else pulling that sort of stunt, they'd have been takin into custody.
As for comparing his antic's to Michael Jackson's...well, we all know he's certifiable, so what does that make Steve Irwin?
The child needed an extra-sensory experience experience?
I don't care what part of the world a child is born in, the only thing a one month old child is wired for is eating, pooping, and dribbling! Nowhere did Dr. Spock, or the "What to Expect..." books mention crocodiles at one month old.
Should an inner city child be exposed to gunfire? Should a one month old child of a rancher be exposed to a stampede? Did Jaques Costeau hang his children over the transom of the Calypso so they'd learn about Great White Sharks?
Mr. Irwin never for a moment, thought about the consequences of his actions, only the publicity.
Wait...I live on a busy road, time for me to dangle my son in front of oncoming cars!! This extra-sensory stimulation will keep him from running into the road when he grows up!
I wonder if that really works? Hmmm....
If I had done what Michael Jackson, or Steve Irwin did to their infants, my family would have stimulated me too...by hanging me off a bridge with chains and cement blocks tied to my feet.
This way I'd be conditioned never to do it again.
Please folks, don't condone stupidity. The world already has enough.
Rob Natalino
 
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