Late '06 amel and double het normals

[Bill & Amy]

I didnt insinuate a thing. Never implied a thing or accused you of anything. I simply stated a thought crossed my mind based on the similarities of the two threads.

That is why an IP check was requested. To find if the similarities were coincidence or not.

It really does play like the other thread doesn't it? One selling and the other defending.

 

[Otter_23]

Jaxom
If you feel so comfortable with this guy and he has great prices on his snakes why don't you step up and give this guy your business. I would love to hear out it works out.

 

[Bill & Amy]

They all look like they're off to a good start, which is more than you can say for many coming from pet stores. Maybe set a price for all of them?

And I'll keep asking questions until the thread gets noticed and people buy these babies!

Why would you try to help someone sell their snakes if you don't know them?

I keep checking my shoes, because something smells around here.

 

[jaxom1957]

I didnt insinuate a thing. Never implied a thing or accused you of anything. I simply stated a thought crossed my mind based on the similarities of the two threads. That is why an IP check was requested. To find if the similarities were coincidence or not.

Privately requesting a moderator to check an IP is quite different than publicly saying such a request was in order. The implication was blatant and in no way accidental.

For those with difficulty reading for comprehension: I have repeatedly requested that anyone having direct dealings with the seller post that. I have listed my reasons for doubting the accusations made against him. I have made no statements about any actions or representations other than what are clearly shown in this thread, but have had it implied that I am a scammer or am in cahoots with a scammer because I don't accept everything other users claim at face value.

 

[shrap]

Jaxom,

You obviously can not differentiate between accusations and proven facts.

Nick gave phone number to Casey. That phone number actually belongs to Kevin (crimson reptiles). That is a proven fact. Not an accusation.

Both Nick and Kevin were posting from the exact same IP address when they claimed to be in different States and not know each other. Which proves the posts came from the same residence. That again is a proven fact. Not an accusation.

Nick (who we now have established is really Kevin also) claimed the pics were of his animals and taken 6 months ago. Jon of Next World Exotics came forward and said some of the pics were not Kevins and were taken directly from the Next World Exotics site. Jon also said that snake in the picture is still a part of his personal collection. So there is no way that snake that Kevin said was his and that he personally took pics of were his. Not the snake or the pics. That too is a proven fact and not an accusation.

Is it really so hard for you to see those PROVEN FACTS? Or is this a case of "I refuse to admit when I am wrong"?

 

[jaxom1957]

Jaxom
If you feel so comfortable with this guy and he has great prices on his snakes why don't you step up and give this guy your business. I would love to hear out it works out.

I didn't buy from him because I don't need any normals, het for whatever.

 

[jaxom1957]

Why would you try to help someone sell their snakes if you don't know them? I keep checking my shoes, because something smells around here.

I originally posted in the thread because I thought I must be misreading the ad. $50 including shipping, especially if shipping to the west coast, is extremely low. The statement about posting until someone bought the babies was meant as a joke since he and I were the only ones posting in the thread. If you look at the thread, you will also note that I posted very little after that, save to note that one of the normals had nice contrast, similar to a Miami. As shipping to California from back east runs $45 or more and he was selling his snakes for $50, including shipping, they were a great price. I didn't think his group price was such a good deal, but didn't want to make him feel bad by saying so, so I stopped posting in the thread.

 

[jaxom1957]

Nick gave phone number to Casey. That phone number actually belongs to Kevin (crimson reptiles).

And this can be verified by....

Both Nick and Kevin were posting from the exact same IP address when they claimed to be in different States and not know each other.

Again, this can be verified by....

Neither of those claims are independently verifiable. You are telling me to accept the word of two people I don't know about facts that only they can know are true or not. The case against "Nick" seems obvious, but your insistence that Nick and Kevin are the same person relies upon hearsay that cannot be verified by any independent means. You choose to accept the words of the persons involved. As I don't know them, I have no opinion as to their veracity. I don't know if they are telling the truth, so am not ready to concede that someone who has been straightforward with me is a scammer.

I haven't said he isn't because I don't know. I've said I don't find the evidence against him persuasive. You ask me to accept the word of some people while telling me not to trust the word of another, yet there is nothing more concrete about their statements than there is about his. I have never met him, I've never spoken with him save via the forum and what he is offering for sale doesn't meet any requirement I currently have. I've never told anyone else to buy or not buy from him, save to note that the price he listed was a good buy, especially for anyone on the west coast, and that one of his snakes for sale had nice coloration. For that I have had insinuations made about my own business practices, been insulted and had my intelligence called into question. Had I no other reason not to take the word of those posting in this thread, the level of discourse alone would influence me not to take anything that is being bandied about as gospel.

 

[Wilomn]

Had I no other reason not to take the word of those posting in this thread, the level of discourse alone would influence me not to take anything that is being bandied about as gospel.

Finally, an intelligent statement. It is well known that the gospels bite their own tails fairly often.

Here at fauna, on the BOI in particular, the only tailbiting is the badguys wishing they hadn't come here.

I don't think you like being wrong. I think you don't like being wrong to such an extreme that you overlook the obvious in order to seem above what everyone else can see just fine. It's an interesting phenomena, this going so far out on a limb for known scammer, not new, but interesting anyway.

 

[jaxom1957]

It's an interesting phenomena, this going so far out on a limb for known scammer, not new, but interesting anyway.

And what limb would that be? As I've made no assertions about him whatsoever, your reply should be edifying.

I don't find the "proof" persuasive. So many users seem to be implying that I am defending Kevin, despite the fact that the only thing I have done is noted what he posted, and asked that anyone who had direct dealings with him post them. In lieu of that, I read post after post insisting that I accept unsubstantiated "facts" from persons I don't know and the underlying proofs of which cannot be independently verified, claiming that I am wrong. Wrong about WHAT? Wrong about my own opinion? Wrong in noting that what passes for "proof" with this crowd would be laughed out of court in any jurisdiction? I cannot be wrong about Kevin because I don't have an opinion about Kevin. He may well be a scammer, but the posters here have failed to prove that to my satisfaction. I'm not defending a person; I am defending my right to hold an opinion based on proven fact rather than innuendo and hearsay.

 

[Bill & Amy]

And what limb would that be? As I've made no assertions about him whatsoever, your reply should be edifying.

I don't find the "proof" persuasive. So many users seem to be implying that I am defending Kevin, despite the fact that the only thing I have done is noted what he posted, and asked that anyone who had direct dealings with him post them. In lieu of that, I read post after post insisting that I accept unsubstantiated "facts" from persons I don't know and the underlying proofs of which cannot be independently verified, claiming that I am wrong. Wrong about WHAT? Wrong about my own opinion? Wrong in noting that what passes for "proof" with this crowd would be laughed out of court in any jurisdiction? I cannot be wrong about Kevin because I don't have an opinion about Kevin. He may well be a scammer, but the posters here have failed to prove that to my satisfaction. I'm not defending a person; I am defending my right to hold an opinion based on proven fact rather than innuendo and hearsay.

You want proof, buy something from him and see if you get it.

 

[jaxom1957]

You want proof, buy something from him and see if you get it.

Did you buy something and not receive it? If not, you've added nothing to the discussion.

 

[Bill & Amy]

Did you buy something and not receive it? If not, you've added nothing to the discussion.

If you want proof you are more than capable to do some research. You are just as capable of doing a white page listing check. The person that listed the ISP info is a moderator of this site. You are the one making a stink about proof, everyone else accepted the proof laid before them as we have been here long enough to trust the people that posted the info. If you want to trust him that is your choice. I have been personally lied to by him about the snakes he was trying to sell. I personally received an email from the individual trying to sell me snakes, have you?

You are the one not adding anything to this discussion. You will not believe he is a scammer until he screws you.

 

[Tsutton5]

my dealings

I had inquired about these snakes way back when, as you can see...He told me they where normals and couldn't be sold or kept in NJ, which I knew, I didn't realize they were normals... I asked him about his petstore being from the same area as him, I thought I would get me feeders from him.... Thats when he said he had closed his store and was moving to Baltimore, MD because he had opened a new store.. but referred me to a store his "BUDDY" owned which is only a few min from me also....(will be stopping by there tomorrow to inquire on this person)....everything seemed a little fishy but thought nothing of it....

 

[Tsutton5]

ohh yea

I forgot I did mention kept or sold in NJ, remember he WAS/IS in NJ.....

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I don't find the "proof" persuasive.

Then you’re just plain ignorant. A site moderator pointed out the IP was the same. Casey with an outstanding reputation gave the number that Nick sent to him. When you do a search on that phone number it comes back to the other user. How would Casey get the phone number for crimsonexotics? What is not to understand? What possible proof could anyone else provide? What difference does it make if someone else purchased from him under his own name?

For all the people that wonder why these scammers keep getting away with taking people for a ride, your posts are a prime example.

 

[jaxom1957]

I had inquired about these snakes way back when, as you can see...He told me they where normals and couldn't be sold or kept in NJ, which I knew, I didn't realize they were normals... I asked him about his petstore being from the same area as him, I thought I would get me feeders from him.... Thats when he said he had closed his store and was moving to Baltimore, MD because he had opened a new store.. but referred me to a store his "BUDDY" owned which is only a few min from me also....(will be stopping by there tomorrow to inquire on this person)....everything seemed a little fishy but thought nothing of it....

It seems he correctly refused to sell you a snake that would be illegal in NJ, your state of residence.

Thank you for relating a direct contact, and please post whatever you find out when you go to the store.

 

[jaxom1957]

Then you’re just plan ignorant. A site moderator pointed out the IP was the same. Casey with an outstanding reputation gave the number that Nick sent to him.

Your assumptions are that the moderator and Casey are both honest. I have no reason to believe they are not, but also no personal knowledge that they are. The IP address is not available to the public for verification, nor is the email sent to Casey. Several users have now posted, all insisting that I accept YOUR LEVEL OF PROOF as sufficient. ONE person has posted having direct contact with the seller, and, as far as I can tell from that post, was given correct information.

What I protest is the habit of users in this forum of making claims against individuals with whom they have not had direct dealings, based upon what another user claimed happened. If the persons having direct dealings want to post what happened to them, I am quite willing to read what they have to say. What I am not willing to do is accept second-hand hearsay as evidence. So, I ask again: will any user having direct dealings with Kevin Orbanus please post what happened, positive or negative. Not dealings with "Nick", not what was related by another user, but direct dealings with Kevin Orbanus.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

The IP address is not available to the public for verification, nor is the email sent to Casey.

Yours is 6*.110.71.**

OrgName: SBC Internet Services
OrgID: SIS-80
Address: 208 S Akard St
Address: One AT&T Plaza 22nd Floor / Attn: IP Management Group
City: Dallas
StateProv: TX
PostalCode: 75202
Country: US

Sufficient enough for you?

 

[jaxom1957]

Yours is 6*.110.71.**
Sufficient enough for you?

My current address is 6*.225.25.**, so no, not sufficient.