Lizard Lair
New member
I am posting these facts to clarify the rumors, half-truths and outright lies going around about the Nosy Mitsio (Mafana) situation, and about the offspring from One Eye, known as Tequila Sunrise (TS). This will be a long posting, because it is necessary to clarify all the facts. Some of the E-mails may seem off-point at first but contain within them references that do apply to the situation. I decided to post entire e-mails, with explanations, rather than cut and paste relevant parts so that people can see I am not taking anything out of context. Even though the Mafana issue and the One Eye offspring issue seem to be separate, they are actually related. It is because of the One Eye offspring problem that the Mafana problem has developed. So I will first off explain the situation, and then the e-mails, with explanations, will follow.
On 1/8/04 I sent Kalaam at Aline Reptiles a $2000 down payment for the new Nosy Mitsio local, named Mafanas by Kalaam. On 4/26/04 I sent an additional $3150 as a final payment and bought 4.7 Mafanas. I do have a copy of the Cashier’s checks, but I do not have the invoices showing the breakdown of charges because they were to be shipped to Lane Gergely at Legend Cham. The verbal agreement was that I buy the breeders, she houses & cares for them and we would split the babies 50/50. I would eventually sell any surviving adults. Some of the Mafanas were juveniles and would need to mature before breeding. Some were gravid and laid eggs not long after arrival. A few of the females came in with damaged lips, and Lane took them to her vet to have the damaged tissue cut away. I told her I would pay the Dr. bills, but she said it wasn’t all that much and not to worry about it. One of the males died fairly soon, I don’t know the exact date, but it was before May. By June the second male had died. Also, in June I sold 1.1 Mafanas to David Gaithe at Razorback Exotics for $1050. That brought the head count of Mafanas at Legendchams down to 6. Now the original agreement (verbal) was for a 50/50 split. I only have indirect proof of that, because I had mentioned the split in an E-mail sent to her in November. She never corrected me on that. Trust me, if I had been wrong I would have been corrected immediately! Also in November there was a misunderstanding that came up about John at Cham Paradise featuring my Mafana male as Hulk. I saw on his web page that he had a lot of unrelated eggs, with babies soon to hatch. There was no mention of Lizard Lair or Legend Cham and he was presented in Johns line up of breeders giving the impression that Cham Paradise is running this project. I saved that page to my hard-drive and contacted Lane letting her know I was upset, and it would be confusing for the public to see the same male with 2 different names on 2 different website. Especially since I owned the male, and Lane & I co-owned the eggs, and Cham Paradise was just her selling agent in return for some babies. Of course she forwarded that e-mail to John that very night. What I didn’t know was that after Lane talked to him he changed his website to say the Mafanas are a breeding project with his partner Legendcham. So of course when I looked at his website the following morning that is what I saw. I felt horrible that I didn’t notice it the night before and immediately sent an apology to John and Lane. But it bugged me all morning how I could have missed such a thing and jumped to a wrong conclusion. So I looked at his web page that I had saved to my hard drive the previous night and saw that it was as I had previously thought. I had already profusely apologized to John & Lane and wasn’t willing to retract the apology. Lane & I thought it best to just forget the entire incident and move on. She also mentioned I needed to start pushing the Mafanas so I can get a customer list like she and John were doing. Both Cham Paradise and I had a picture of the sire to use on our websites to promote the upcoming babies. While using this picture there were no copyright infringements as Lane, in writing, (document follows) had given me permission to use that picture. How else could I promote an animal that wasn’t in my possession other than to use pictures furnished by her? She later retracted permission to use the picture, and made that very public by posting on my picture on the Kingsnake Gallery that I had no right to use the picture. Fortunately, before all of this blew up 1.2 of my Mafana breeders were shipped to my new friend and partner, David at Razorback Exotics, so I would be able to get pictures of my male to use for advertising that way. In the meantime I bought a male from Lane that was at that time thought to be a One Eye offspring. I have the same breeding arrangement with Razorback Exotics that I had previously had with Lane, so everything I bought from her was shipped to Razorback Exotics. That offspring is named Tequila Sunrise, and I will call him TS for short. The baby wasn’t showing good color, but we were sure better colors would eventually surface. John was going to post pictures of his One Eye baby on the gallery, and Lane requested that David also post a picture to make a good showing for One Eye. But our baby was not showing good color, and I told Lane we would not post pictures until he starts showing some type of coloration. In the meantime we also purchased a .2 Sambava/Andapa cross Lane was selling which actually ended up being a 1.1 Sambava/Andapa cross. These babies were much smaller than TS. Eventually TS started showing color. Most definitely he did not look like his brother or sire. When TS started firing up David decided to finally put his picture up in the gallery. People responded with doubt that he was an Ambilobe and I discussed this with Lane. She said there was a slight chance that the babies could have gotten mixed up at her place and that he may after all be from the Sambava/Andapa cage. David told people on the gallery posting that he didn’t have anything to do with the breeding, and could only go by what the breeder said about the baby. People were asking questions David couldn’t possibly answer about the bloodline so he directed them to contact Lane if they wanted more information. Some very unfavorable postings were showing up and Lane wanted the picture pulled immediately. However because there had been so many views of the pictures Lane, myself, and David all agreed to let the picture stay up for a little while longer before pulling. In the meantime David put up some more pictures, and Lane was enraged. She demanded everything to come down immediately. At the same time David found out that his brother had died and was unavailable. Lane offered me my money back, a free baby from Rembrandt and one of John’s One Eye males for $150. And if I sold TS I should give her anything over $150. I was liking the idea, but wouldn’t commit until David was again available to discuss it with him. At this point David was home infrequently because of his family crisis and I was rarely able to talk to him. He tried his best to keep current with the situation and did post a few more pictures. Lane was furious and started making demands about TS. She insisted TS be returned to her to be euthanized (document follows) and she would send me the refund and free baby. But I was very unwilling to do this. She kept insisting on his return and eventually reached the point where she forbids me to ever sell TS or mention either her or Cham Paradise in relation to him or his bloodlines. If I ever did she would “ruin me and I can take that to the bank” (document follows). I’m stating the bare bones of the threat, you will see in the attached e-mails how viciously these ultimatums were given me. I repeatedly explained to Lane that I would not return TS to her, or to anybody else she found to take him. After the threat of euthanasia I was concerned about what would happen to him even if he went to somebody that she selected. Also, since he was at that time co-owned by Razorback Exotics everything would have to wait until David and I could talk and decide what we wanted to do with him. Lane stepped up the threat levels and sent me an e-mail concerning what she wanted done about TS that I was supposed to sign in front of a notary (document follows) and return to her. Again, I reminded her David was unavailable for a while. She gave me until 1/10 to sign her terms and send back to her. At that time that meant I had 10 days. But within the body of the same letter she said I had to verbally tell her I was going to comply within 4 days or she would consult her attorney and start the ball rolling. I told her that she had better start the ball rolling then because I wasn’t going to return TS to her.
Now all of this is background to explain the partnerships involved, the so-called copyright infringements on pictures posted and the upcoming battle for my share of the Mafana babies. With Legendcham severing all relations with me the Mafana offspring became a problem. Since Vincent of Screameleons had expressed an interest in the remaining breeder female at Lane’s to David I thought I would contact him with a proposition. I offered him the Mafana female in trade after she laid her last clutch of eggs for Lane. I thought that if Vincent was willing this could be an excellent solution to the awkwardness of the Mafana babies. Lane (if she agreed) would send my half of the babies to Vincent as they hatched throughout the rest of the year. Vincent would take all of my share of the babies. In return we could work out chameleon trades, or split the selling price he gets for the babies. He was interested and contacted Lane. That is when I first heard in no uncertain terms from Lane that the deal was for 75/25, never 50/50. (document follows) Within the body of the same letter she further stated that because of all of her expenses in the upkeep of the adults she is shocked I would even expect her to send me anything. However, she will allow me to have 1 – 2% of the offspring, IF I sign a contract that I would never contact any of her customers. She went further to give an example that I would be allowed, after signing a contract, 2 babies from each clutch. But, for example, if only 9 babies were to hatch, I would then only get 1 baby. That is a long ways from 50/50. That is even a long ways from 75/25! Her reasoning is that she has more than I do into the Mafanas. I don’t think so. Her reasoning is the early vet bills (which I offered to pay), feeding and care cost her in excess of $2000. Plus, because her daughter cleans the cages daily she has tacked on an additional $2000 for that service.(document follows) If I were to take these figures at face value that gives Lane an investment of $4000 into the Mafanas. For my side of it I paid out $5150 for the breeders. After one of the females layed I sold 1.1 for $1050 in June which leaves me with a dollar value of $4100 into our breeding bargain. Three adults died. That brings my asset value down to $2696. The 2 females remaining at Legendchams are dying. One female is full of tumors and Lane is allowing her to live out the rest of her life in peace & quiet. Lane is waiting for the final gravid female to lay and does not expect her to survive. That leaves me with 1.2 surviving Mafanas out of the original 11. Those were shipped to Razorback Exotics to continue the Mafana breeding program there. The total value I have left in surviving Mafanas is $1404. If you add to that the $1050 I made in selling the 1.1 that would come to $2454. So, these are my surviving assets from a $5150 purchase, which puts me in the hole by $2696. Lane says she has at least $4000 into them. I think the $2000 food bill is outrageous. I know that 2 of the males died before June. I don’t remember when the 3rd animal died. Lane had all 11 until June. By the middle of June the Mafana population was down to 6. So there were 2 months of feeding and caring for 11 panthers. After June she was feeding 7 (eventually 6) panthers. My estimates at her probable food bill come to approximately $380 for the 8 months. I based this on averaging 12 crickets per day per animal. Lane talks about her $2000 feed bill. Well, she had a few other panthers there in addition to mine. Also she has been feeding various small clutches of babies throughout all of this. So basically I do not care what she shows for insect receipts, I am using common sense in what I feel my panthers actually ate. I also realize there are some costs involved in the power for the heat lamps. I don’t count money spent on power for air conditioning, because the air conditioners will run in the summer whether panthers are in the house or not. The same holds true for running the heaters in the winter. As for paying her daughter $2000 to clean cages……that is between Lane and her daughter. It has nothing to do with our original bargain. It was very simple. 50/50. I buy the breeders, she cares for them and the babies until they are at a saleable age. If she chose to pay her daughter to clean cages that is between them and has nothing to do with our deal. Lane has said she will have $125 invested in each baby before it is of a saleable age. It would be to difficult to figure the costs based on feeding fruit flies, so I am figuring on 24 baby crickets a day per baby just to come up with a approximate cost for feeding them. I come up with a total of about $37 per baby to feed 24 crickets a day for 2 months. That is a very, very long way from $125 per baby. So as far as the adults are concerned, after 8 months I am in the hole on the Mafana purchase by $2696. Lane is out approximate $380 for insects, perhaps another $200 for vet bills. She made a couple of shipments to David at her expense, and I don’t know how much it cost her. You can see there is a vast difference between my expenditures and hers. Naturally the housing and her time makes up for the difference in these costs – making a 50/50 split highly fair. But since I am only allowed 1 – 2% of the offspring, and at that only if I sign a contract with her stating I will never contact anybody she considers her customer (and of course I don’t know who they all are) I walked away from it. I e-mailed her severing all connections, giving her the mafana babies. Not willingly. Oh no. I could definitely win this in court. But it would have to be a Texas court. And I know full well it would be impossible to enforce the win. There are to many ways my share of the babies would “disappear”. How could I prove how many babies hatched, how many went to John? How many got sold quietly under the table? How could I even be confident the babies she would condescend to ship me are even Mafanas? Anything could happen and I am completely powerless to see that she follows through. So I have been basically forced into giving into her demands, she gets ALL of the Mafana babies, and I have been thoroughly cheated.
Following are the relevant e-mails with brief explanations:
In this first e-mail my response to Lane is in parenthesis. This was in response to me e-mail to Lane about John naming a Mafana he didn’t own and presenting it on his site in his breeder line-up like it was his. This is the e-mail that shows the mention of a 50/50 split on the babies that was never refuted by Lane. Also in the first sentence Lane mentions giving me permission to use the pictures she took of the Mafana male - therefore no copyright infringement!
----- Original Message -----
From: Lane Gergely
To: Roger & Shelly
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 7:08 AM
Subject: Re: Hulk
Shelly,
I am a little shocked by this e-mail. It looks like something IVAN would do! First off, I did take the photos for
both YOU and JOHN. (John wasn't involved in Mafanas when I made the purchase which was close to $5000.) I did tell him to please list the Mafana offspring on his web-site, WAY AFTER me discussing
with you my intentions for my part of the offspring. I did not know that he named the Mafana, Hulk. I am not
in favor with names in the first place, I think you already know this. Now the facts are that you bought and paid
for the Mafanas, and that is on PUBLIC record. But I would be MOST HAPPY to provide you with paid receipts
of all of the feeder insects, lighting, meds, vet bills, etc, that I have put into the Mafanas. The fact is that I have
just as much money, and MORE TIME into these chameleons. I have as much right as YOU do, to sell MY part (Yes, I know you have a lot of costs into the animals. Our agreement was that I would buy the animals. You would house and care for the babies and we would split the babies 50/50. I would then sell the animals that survived to recoup some of the money. I never had any argument with the way you chose to dispose of your share of the babies. Never. If you re-read my e-mail you will see that I completely understand why John has a picture of him on his website - because he is selling your babies for you. My problem is with when you click on the males picture it takes you to another page. On that page, with him named and set up like that it gives the impression that these are Johns breeders. Don't you think this is a bit confusing for the public seeing 2 websites claiming ownership?)
of the offspring, anyway I see fit. John is a honest person, and I have a relationship with him. This relationship
is not unlike your relationship with David Gaithe. I have put my ass on the line for both you and the Mafanas,
maybe you should go back and read the BOI. I have sustained ALOT of abuse from Ivan and Matt, because of
my original partnership with you, and escpecially the Mafanas! If the name Hulk is what is bothering you, then
I will ask John to remove the name. We are going to have BIG TIME problems, if you want the pictures removed!
The fact is that Kermit/Hulk is a active breeder. John clearly states that the breeding project on the Mafanas is
being done by me, Legendcham. (I have problems with John's site fully opening, even when I hit the refresh button. I did not see anything on there that shows you as having the animal or doing the breeding. I will try to get the pages to fully open today and see if I can find that.) Do you have a problem with the truth? (Lane, there is absolutely no reason to start being nasty, we have had a close friendship for quite a while and it isn't unusual for an argument to spring up in friendships, but if the argument is because of a misunderstanding both parties work it out and move on. I did not want to contact John immediately - I wanted to talk to you first. If I am wrong then we would have worked it out without every having to upset John. But you sure ruined those good intentions with your quick e-mail forwarding....) With everything that I have done for
you, and all of the **** I have taken from people like Matt, Ivan and even my husband, I am very displeased
with this e-mail. You should have called me! (It was to way late to call you last night. And I just tried to call you so we could talk this over rather than e-mail back & forth but all I get is your answering machine...)These are living breathing animals, NOT EGO enhancers! (Wow, you really are being nasty to me.) This is my take on this. Let me know
how you want to handle it.
Lane
THIS E-MAIL SHOWS HER INTENT TO SHIP MAFANA BABIES TO ME
----- Original Message -----
From: Lane Gergely
To: Roger & Shelly
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: Apology still stands
Shelly,
Just so you know, the female that I sent David did lay one clutch of eggs here. She probably double clutched with
retained sperm, that is common. He will need to carefully mark those eggs. You need to start pushing the Mafanas
right now, well before any eggs hatch. That is what John and myself are doing. With over 5 different bloodlines
between us, and Davids unrelated clutch, I would recommend that. We will see how successful the hatch rate is.
Most of the clutches are small to average, but that is still a few chameleons. Now is the time to market them, and
not get stuck with older ones. Another thing to consider, is that the males will need to show coloration before
selling the clutch as Mafanas. I will ship yours to you, as soon as they are big enough to ship. Hopefully that will
be around 8 weeks or so. I will not sell mine, until the males of the CH'd clutches show coloration. I am also going
to be asking around $450 to $500 for females, and $400 for males. You can always come down, but you can't go
up. I will need a bottom dollar of $375 to even come close to making any profit, so we will just have to see.
Lane
IN THIS E-MAIL LANE ADMITS THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN A MIX-UP ON THE ONE-EYE BABY SENT TO US.
From: "Lane Gergely" <[email protected]>
To: "Roger and Shelly" <[email protected]>
Subject: Did you talk to David
Date: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 8:21 AM
Shelly,
I think that either you or David should post a response to Chamluv on the gallery. I know that he is a grown man, but he has given
out WAY TOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much information. He is not a Tamatave! You are David should mention the fact that there was
a clutch of Andapa/Sambava that hatched a few weeks after the One Eye babies. I would also mention that there might of been a mix-up.
I really don't understand why he posted the same pics twice, after he had already posted a picture of him several days ago. Your prompt
attention to this would be appreciated. I feel like I have made every effort to make good on the possible mix-up. The ball is in both
your and David's court. Let me know when the Mafanas arrive.
Lane
From: "Lane Gergely" <[email protected]>
To: "Roger & Shelly" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: John
Date: Thursday, December 30, 2004 11:03 AM
Shelly,
He reposted 3 additional pictures of the male last nite! I have now consulted my attorney. I sent you a e-mail a little
while ago, and will forward you the e-mail that I sent to him. I am going to refund you the money on the male, and
I want the male shipped back to me. He will then be euthanized upon his arrival. This has damaged both mine, and
John's reputation. I am prepared to force the issue in court, if you do not agree to this.
Lane
From: "Lane Gergely" <[email protected]>
To: "Roger and Shelly" <[email protected]>
Subject: Contract on chameleon Tequila Sunrise
Date: Thursday, December 30, 2004 1:53 PM
Shelly,
Please review this contract concerning TS. If you agree, you will need to copy it, and sign in front of a notary public.
Your bank should have a notary public at no charge. I will need to recieve the signed notarized original via mail by
no latter than 1/9/05.
I Shelly Doughtery, DBA Lizard Lair, agree to fully comply to the terms of this agreement. I understand that failure
to comply with the outlined terms of this agreement may result in a civil suit being brought against me for failure to
comply to the outlined terms.
1. I Shelly Doughtery, DBA Lizard Lair, agree to return the male pardalis chameleon known as Tequila Sunrise
to Lane Gergely, DBA Legend Cham within 48 hours of recieving a refund of $200 via paypal. If I decide to keep
the said male pardalis chameleon known as Tequila Sunrise, I will NEVER use Lane Gergely's name, DBA
Legend Cham or John Lucas's name, DBA Chameleon Paradise in connection with the said pardalis chameleon
known as Tequila Sunrise. This agreement will carry over to any and all AGENTS or PARTNERS acting in my
behalf.
2. I Shelly Doughtery, DBA Lizard Lair agree to have all current pictures of the said pardalis chameleon known as Tequila Sunrise that connect
Lane Gergely, DBA Legend Cham and John Lucas of Chameleon Paradise permanently taken off the internet.
I understand that if I Shelly Doughtery of Lizard Lair decide to keep the chameleon known as Tequila Sunrise,
I can post pictures of him at a latter date, as long as Lane Gergely, DBA Legend Cham or John Lucas of
Chameleon Paradise is NOT USED in anyway. This agreement will carry over to any and all AGENTS or PARTNERS
acting in my behalf.
3. I Shelly Doughtery, DBA Lizard Lair agree that any future chameleons that I purchase from Lane Gergely, DBA Legend Cham will not be shipped
or co-owned by David Gaithe, DBA Razorback Exotics.
I had mentioned to Lane I might quietly sell TS as a pet at a reptile show. At this point I didn’t know what to do, I just wanted out of the situation. Of course I would have to discuss this with David first. However it turns out David wants to keep TS and see how he develops. Razorback Exotics has full ownership of TS now. I had repeatedly told Lane I won’t return TS to her, and after the euthanasia threat I certainly wouldn’t trust anybody she picked out to take TS.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lane Gergely
To: Roger & Shelly
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: Legend Chams terms of agreement regarding Tequila Sunrise
Shelly,
I have talked with John McClusky, he has purchased a couple of chameleons from me. He is willing to take TS and keep
him. I will giving him TS. What is your problem? I am REFUNDING your money, AFTER YOU AGREE TO RETURN THE
CHAMELEON! I will NOT agree to have him sold for any amount of MONEY! Refunding your money, and giving you a free
Ambilobe is MORE than FAIR! I can only assume that you WANT to damage my reputation and our friendship! I don't want
DAVID to SELL anything that came from me! ARE YOU GOING TO SIGN THE AGREEMENT, AND RETURN THE CHAMELEON?
Let me know STAT!
Lane
THIS IS WHERE SHE GAVE ME UNTIL 1/10 TO RETURN HER CONTRACT, THREATENED TO RUIN ME IF I DIDN’T COMPLY, THEN TURNED AROUND AND GAVE ME 4 DAYS TO COMPLY – ALL WITHIN 1 LETTER. IT DID NOT MATTER THAT DAVID WAS INVOLVED IN A FAMILY EMERGENCY AND COULDN’T BE REACHED.
From: "Lane Gergely" <[email protected]>
To: "Roger and Shelly" <[email protected]>
Subject: Getting things straigt
Date: Thursday, December 30, 2004 4:40 PM
Shelly,
After David posted those outrageous, and untruthful comments on the gallery, things changed. Both you and I agreed last nite
that ALL of the pictures and comments needed to be removed. That did not happen, and has become much worst. You have
allowed your new best friend to slash not only me, but John, who is very innocent! I am going to warn you ONE LAST TIME,
if you do not sign the agreement that I e-mailed to you, and return it by 1/10/05, along with TS after you recieve your money
refund, ALL HELL WILL BREAK LOSE! You don't EVEN want to go there, I ASSURE YOU! You need to do the right thing, and
return a chameleon that you are not satisfied with. You are being generously compensated! If you ask David to sell TS or sell
TS yourself, you will be RUINED! YOU CAN TAKE THAT TO THE BANK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If I don't get COMMITMENT from you BEFORE I leave on Monday, I will start the ball rolling while I am out of town. I have been
on the phone today with other breeders, and they think that both your and Davids actions are way over the top! Like I said on the
phone, neither you or David sent me pictures of the male before he was posted! I have asked to get pictures several times! I guess
you are going to deny that. Well it just so happens that I have e-mails that I sent you asking for pictures. I HATE LIARS!
Lane
OK, I ADMIT IT, AT THIS POINT I’M GETTING VERY MAD
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger & Shelly
To: Lane Gergely
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 5:07 PM
Subject: Re: Legend Chams terms of agreement regarding Tequila Sunrise
I have already told you I have to wait to talk to David - obviously! He isn't around right now - REMEMBER?! His brother died he has a few more important things to do right now! You just went through that, do you think you are the ONLY one who suffers a loss?! I have not said I am for sure going to sell him but am seriously considering it. I stated I wasn't going to sell him through KingSnake, but privately. This sale does not affect you. The people don't know you, never heard of you and will never hear of any of this from me. I thought I was being DECENT by not taking you money if I don't return the chameleon to you!!!!!!!!! I THOUGHT it would be a sort of robbery to do so!!!! You need to calm down and start thinking because you are looking for evil everywhere you look. I have NEVER, EVER SCREWED YOU AND DO NOT DESERVE THE WAY YOU ARE TREATING ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I I am not the bad guy but I am starting to become extremely PISSED over your continuous attacks on me!!!!!!!!
The relevant part of this e-mail is to show Lane has gone from calling TS a Sambava/Andapa to insinuating he didn’t come from her at all. Highly insulting. We now have pictures of TS and the Sambava/Andapa male together and guess what? They look like twins! I really do have to respond to a few asinine things she has put into this e-mail. First off she blames me for her selling One Eye to “my” customer Doug who killed him. The truth is Jovanna responded first to the flier I sent out about him. But Doug contacted Lane and convinced her that One Eye would end up with Ivan and Jovanna shouldn’t get him. Lane agreed and said Doug could have One Eye. That left me with the unpleasant & unfair task of informing Jovanna she could not have One Eye. Lane refers to a trip I took to Texas that cost thousands of dollars. That was a trip purchased at a charitable auction for SeaWorld that did cost them thousands of dollars. The trip was for 8 people and they had room for 1 more, so invited me. I provided my own air fair to fly down, arrived with a gift that cost me $100. I had also previously sent her 2 17# boxes of prime cuts of elk & moose steaks, trout and sausages. I know this is petty, but Lane tries to give the impression I’m a “taker”, when in fact there has been giving on both sides. Absolutely tacky to bring such things up!
From: "Lane Gergely" <[email protected]>
To: "Roger & Shelly" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Legend Chams terms of agreement regarding Tequila Sunrise
Date: Thursday, December 30, 2004 7:26 PM
Shelly,
I did not sell the chameleon to David! I sold it to YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lets get this straight, he does not have ANY SAY on the
chameleon, PERIOD! If you have a agreement with him, then YOU need to make good on it. You are trying to have your
cake and eat it too. I do not deserve the treatment that I have gotten from either you or David. I have PLENTY of people
that will attest to that! You are right, it is robbery to keep a chameleon that you have allowed your agent or partner to
complain about on a public forum. It is also very immoral! I have found a good home for TS, MUCH better than the one
he has now! I have been very DECENT to you, but if you want me to get nasty then go right ahead and keep this nonsense
up. You did not have a problem, when I STOOD UP FOR YOU with Ivan. That is more than I can say for you right now.
Maybe you think that you will make more that $200 on TS, I don't know. You asked me to sell my prized chameleon One
Eye to YOUR customer Doug, and he killed him. I have had enough of this BS. I never expected a friend that I invited to
take a ONCE IN A LIFETIME trip, that cost several thousand dollars to treat me like this. But I should have gotten a clue a
long time ago. You wanted to buy a cookbook that Tony has, so we bought it for you and sent it for a early Christmas present.
Friendship = Loyalty, and doing to others as you would want them to do to you! How would you like to be in my shoes.
When I sold my breeders, you were getting totally out of the breeding end of the chameleons. You told me that you wanted
to buy and resell only. Now these attacks by your buddy David are CLEARLY the result of you not getting the Picassos or
Neon Man babies. You had a beautiful Picasso male, that YOU SOLD! I have trusted that you would do what you say, but
you have not. I am NOT STUPID Shelly, so DON"T PLAY ME FOR A FOOL. I pray that everytime you look at your neat
keychain with the Beluga whale, remember that you once had a friend that made that keychain possible. BUT I WON'T HOLD MY BREATH
on that one. When we talk on the phone, you tell me that everything will be taken care of. That was yesterday! IF YOU KEEP
THAT CHAMELEON, I WILL FIGHT YOU LIKE I HAVE NEVER FOUGHT BEFORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have done everything HUMANLY
possible to correct the situation with Tequila Sunrise not being a ONE EYE male. I want you to UNDERSTAND that he Andapas hatched
3 to 4 weeks after the One Eye babies did, and THERE ARE NO CHAMELEONS FROM EITHER CLUTCH THAT ARE THE
SIZE of the male, that YOU and DAVID are claiming to be the chameleon that I shipped. I have talked to several people that
own either a One Eye baby, or the Andapa/Sambava babies. In fact, my other customers pointed that out to me. I don't
mind being screwed for a little money, but these posts on KS are WORST than ANYTHING that Ivan or Matt for that matter
EVER did! John and myself are soooooooooo through with this. We can all end this in a civil manner, or drag this out.
Yes, Shelly I do understand what losing a loved one is all about! DO YOU?????????????????????????????????
I will take your previous e-mails as a NO to returned the SAID chameleon, refund, and restitution ( free Ambilobe). No need
to contact me again. ALL future communication will be handled by lawyers. You are going to need one!
Lane
This is Lanes demands to David, followed by his response to her. She did not have the courtesy to respond back to him, but instead directed her answer to me.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lane Gergely
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 11:57 AM
Subject: RE: Removal of pictures
Mr David Gaithe,
I Lane Gergely of Legendcham, am requesting that you immediately remove all photos of the male that was sold to Shelly
of Lizard Lair. I have discussed this issue with my attorney. A monetary refund will be issued to Shelly of Lizard Lair. The
male will be shipped back to me within 48 hours of her recieving the refund. Due to the fact that I will be out of state all of next
week, the refund will occur the following Monday. If all pictures are not immediately removed, I will have my attorney file a
restraining order against David Gaithe of Razorback Exotics ( aka, paperkid ). Your prompt attention to this matter is requested.
I am also requesting that you do NOT post pictures of the said male on the internet, that includes any and all forums, private e-mails,
etc. To prevent any legal action, I will need for you to respond to this e-mail.
Sincerely,
Lane Gergely
Legendcham
----- Original Message -----
From: David Gaithe
To: Lane Gergely
Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 3:28 AM
Subject: Re: Removal of pictures
My business partner here in Arkansas and myself will have to contact our attorney to see if any of what you have said holds it's weight. I have already talked to my sister-in-law in Colorado who is a attorney and she has advised me to not talk with you until I have talked with our attorney too. If you would please send me the name of your attorney and the name of his law firm and a phone number that he can be reached at it would be most appreciated. At this point in time any other communications will have to be done through our attorneys to protect both parties until my personal family issues have been resolved.
Thank you very much,
David Gaithe
----- Original Message -----
From: Lane Gergely
To: Roger and Shelly
Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 8:37 AM
Subject: Fw: Removal of pictures
Please REMOVE my name from your web-site and KS from all pictures that I have taken. I do not want my name to
be associated with either Lizard Lair or Razorback Exotics in any way. I will not conduct any future business with
Lizard Lair unless a acceptable contract is drawn up at Lizard Lair's expense, and agreed upon by both parties. I am not required to provide David
with my attorney information.
Lane Gergely,
Legend Cham
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger & Shelly
To: Lane Gergely
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 12:12 PM
Lane,
Vincent said you wanted me to call you. I tried but got your answering machine. So if you want to talk by phone you will have to call me. Or e-mail me. I have not contacted you because you made it clear to never contact you again. I felt that since we both trust Vincent he would be a comfortable solution for both of us in the handling of the Mafana babies and the remaining Mafana female. How do you want to proceed?
Shelly
I will be away from home for the next hour....
THIS IS THE RESPONSE WHERE I FIRST LEARNED LANE FELT OUR PARTNERSHIP WAS FOR 75/25, BUT THEN DROPPED IT TO 1-2% AND HER FINAL ULTIMATUM
From: "Lane Gergely" <[email protected]>
To: "Roger & Shelly" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re:
Date: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 9:38 AM
Shelly,
Vince did call me on Monday to inform me that you had called him. I told him exactly what I told you in a previous
e-mail. That is, no further business will conducted with Lizardlair, unless a agreement is reached with both parties
and a contract is drawn up. Again, you put the cart before the horse. My CPA has the preliminary figures on the costs
that I have sustained in the adult Mafanas. The costs of the feeder insects, gutload, vitamins, fresh fruit, etc for the
eight month period between May first and Dec is staggering! I have spent around $2,400 on the feeding of the adults
alone! That does not include paying employees for daily cage cleaning etc. That expense is around $2,000. None
of these figures include meds, vet visits or even my time and expertise! Japser was acclimated, and sent per your request
to Razorback Exotics along with a acclimated GRAVID female. I did not even breed Jasper! The bottomline to all of this, is that I have incurred more
expense than the orginal purchase price on the adult breeder Mafanas. I still have the female with tumors, along with
a breeder female that is gravid. The gravid female is not doing very well, she still has not laid, and looks to be egg
bound. If her condition continues to decline, then I will need to euthinize her and remove the eggs. I have returned
all of the Mafanas at MY cost on shipping, including, Jasper, and the gravid female. Cory did not know how to do the
UPS account information, so Sure-Life has paid ALL of the shipping of chameleons that have been sent to your agent,
Razorback Exotics. You took my pictures and put the name Kermit on them for your web-site, and had a fit when John
put the name of Hulk on MY picture. I CAN VERY easily prove that I have incurred more expense on the adult Mafanas
than your the original purchase price of these chameleons. I HAVE BEEN MORE THAN FAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!! In fact, you have
taken extreme advantage of me. I have also figured out the cost of raising the babies to a age that they can safely be
shipped. My cost is around $125 PER chameleon! At wholesale I am only making $25 per chameleon on the Ambilobes.
I was not aware that Screameleons was a customer or yours, or that you have sold him any chameleons. I can however
prove that he is a customer of Legendcham. To bring another third party into this is very poor ethics! I will not continue
to tolerate this! I did notice that you sent John a e-mail, stating that you had a 50/50 interest in the offpsring! That was
NEVER discussed with ME! When we were partners, we did come to a arrangement of 75/25. The person breeding,feeding,
hatching and raising would have a 75% interest in the offspring. Every chameleon that I sent you, either died, or was
sold! Both you and David damaged my reputation on not only the sale of my One Eye male, remember your customer
Doug? But also on the reported male that David posted as a One Eye male. The male that he posted DEFINATELY has
Tamatave in him, and I did not HAVE any tamatave females! NO WAY can that male be either Ambilobe, or Andapa/Sambava.
Matt has already posted my name, John's name on the BOI reguarding this. Neither you or David have the money to
pay for the damage that this has caused to my reputation. I am a ESTABLISHED BREEDER, unlike you or David! I can
easily prove that as well. The BOI is forever, and the posts can't be removed. I had to contact KS on the posts that
David was making. I contacted their legal department, with proof and they removed the pics and the ads. You and David
DID absolutely nothing! I offered you a MORE than fair solution, you had till 1/10/04 to take me up on the offer and
you declined. It was more important for you and David to continue to print LIES about me on the internet. Please carefully
read this next part!!!!!!!!!! I am going to offer you a maximum of two offpring from each clutch of Mafanas, most of the
clutches are less than 15 eggs. If less than nine survive to a safe shippable age, then the offer is ONE. Again, you would
have to agree NOT to use my name or pictures in ANYWAY. You would also have to agree to not to contact ANY of my
established customers with the sale of the offspring. I really can't believe after all that has been done, that you would
even ask for ANY of the offspring at ALL. I told you several times, recently that I had incurred more expense than the
original purchase price of the animals. I returned them to your agent in top conditon, and even bred a female for you.
Remember the little female in the cage up front? I raised her to adulthood, and bred her for you. YOU HAVE NEVER EVER
OFFER TO PAY ME ONE DIME! So either take the offer, or get a attorney and we can argue the facts in court! DO NOT
CONTACT ME ANYMORE, or bother my customers anymore! You may contact me with a response on my offer of one
to two offpring of each clutch, but only that!
Lane Gergely,
Legendcham
I SEVER ALL TIES WITH LEGENDCHAM AND WALK AWAY FROM THE BABIES SHE OWES ME
From: "Roger & Shelly" <[email protected]>
To: "Lane Gergely" <[email protected]>
Subject: Mafanas
Date: Thursday, January 13, 2005 8:26 PM
Lane,
After careful and full consideration we have decided to sever all ties to Legendcham and will never contact you again other than official government tax information requirements. As to your established customers, we do not have a list of said customers, and as we will no longer be referring to any chameleons we (Lizard Lair / Legendcham) have bred together we will contact whomever we wish in all future sales of any of our (Lizard Lair / Razorback Exotics) reptiles. In reference to chameleons I have purchased from Legendcham, with the exception of the Ambilobe baby purchased as a One Eye baby (TS), because Lizard Lair no longer owns any interest in this animal (now owned exclusively by Razorback Exotics), we will contact whomever we wish for future sales and/or breeding purposes. As stated above we will not contact you again, please return the favor.
Shelly
On 1/8/04 I sent Kalaam at Aline Reptiles a $2000 down payment for the new Nosy Mitsio local, named Mafanas by Kalaam. On 4/26/04 I sent an additional $3150 as a final payment and bought 4.7 Mafanas. I do have a copy of the Cashier’s checks, but I do not have the invoices showing the breakdown of charges because they were to be shipped to Lane Gergely at Legend Cham. The verbal agreement was that I buy the breeders, she houses & cares for them and we would split the babies 50/50. I would eventually sell any surviving adults. Some of the Mafanas were juveniles and would need to mature before breeding. Some were gravid and laid eggs not long after arrival. A few of the females came in with damaged lips, and Lane took them to her vet to have the damaged tissue cut away. I told her I would pay the Dr. bills, but she said it wasn’t all that much and not to worry about it. One of the males died fairly soon, I don’t know the exact date, but it was before May. By June the second male had died. Also, in June I sold 1.1 Mafanas to David Gaithe at Razorback Exotics for $1050. That brought the head count of Mafanas at Legendchams down to 6. Now the original agreement (verbal) was for a 50/50 split. I only have indirect proof of that, because I had mentioned the split in an E-mail sent to her in November. She never corrected me on that. Trust me, if I had been wrong I would have been corrected immediately! Also in November there was a misunderstanding that came up about John at Cham Paradise featuring my Mafana male as Hulk. I saw on his web page that he had a lot of unrelated eggs, with babies soon to hatch. There was no mention of Lizard Lair or Legend Cham and he was presented in Johns line up of breeders giving the impression that Cham Paradise is running this project. I saved that page to my hard-drive and contacted Lane letting her know I was upset, and it would be confusing for the public to see the same male with 2 different names on 2 different website. Especially since I owned the male, and Lane & I co-owned the eggs, and Cham Paradise was just her selling agent in return for some babies. Of course she forwarded that e-mail to John that very night. What I didn’t know was that after Lane talked to him he changed his website to say the Mafanas are a breeding project with his partner Legendcham. So of course when I looked at his website the following morning that is what I saw. I felt horrible that I didn’t notice it the night before and immediately sent an apology to John and Lane. But it bugged me all morning how I could have missed such a thing and jumped to a wrong conclusion. So I looked at his web page that I had saved to my hard drive the previous night and saw that it was as I had previously thought. I had already profusely apologized to John & Lane and wasn’t willing to retract the apology. Lane & I thought it best to just forget the entire incident and move on. She also mentioned I needed to start pushing the Mafanas so I can get a customer list like she and John were doing. Both Cham Paradise and I had a picture of the sire to use on our websites to promote the upcoming babies. While using this picture there were no copyright infringements as Lane, in writing, (document follows) had given me permission to use that picture. How else could I promote an animal that wasn’t in my possession other than to use pictures furnished by her? She later retracted permission to use the picture, and made that very public by posting on my picture on the Kingsnake Gallery that I had no right to use the picture. Fortunately, before all of this blew up 1.2 of my Mafana breeders were shipped to my new friend and partner, David at Razorback Exotics, so I would be able to get pictures of my male to use for advertising that way. In the meantime I bought a male from Lane that was at that time thought to be a One Eye offspring. I have the same breeding arrangement with Razorback Exotics that I had previously had with Lane, so everything I bought from her was shipped to Razorback Exotics. That offspring is named Tequila Sunrise, and I will call him TS for short. The baby wasn’t showing good color, but we were sure better colors would eventually surface. John was going to post pictures of his One Eye baby on the gallery, and Lane requested that David also post a picture to make a good showing for One Eye. But our baby was not showing good color, and I told Lane we would not post pictures until he starts showing some type of coloration. In the meantime we also purchased a .2 Sambava/Andapa cross Lane was selling which actually ended up being a 1.1 Sambava/Andapa cross. These babies were much smaller than TS. Eventually TS started showing color. Most definitely he did not look like his brother or sire. When TS started firing up David decided to finally put his picture up in the gallery. People responded with doubt that he was an Ambilobe and I discussed this with Lane. She said there was a slight chance that the babies could have gotten mixed up at her place and that he may after all be from the Sambava/Andapa cage. David told people on the gallery posting that he didn’t have anything to do with the breeding, and could only go by what the breeder said about the baby. People were asking questions David couldn’t possibly answer about the bloodline so he directed them to contact Lane if they wanted more information. Some very unfavorable postings were showing up and Lane wanted the picture pulled immediately. However because there had been so many views of the pictures Lane, myself, and David all agreed to let the picture stay up for a little while longer before pulling. In the meantime David put up some more pictures, and Lane was enraged. She demanded everything to come down immediately. At the same time David found out that his brother had died and was unavailable. Lane offered me my money back, a free baby from Rembrandt and one of John’s One Eye males for $150. And if I sold TS I should give her anything over $150. I was liking the idea, but wouldn’t commit until David was again available to discuss it with him. At this point David was home infrequently because of his family crisis and I was rarely able to talk to him. He tried his best to keep current with the situation and did post a few more pictures. Lane was furious and started making demands about TS. She insisted TS be returned to her to be euthanized (document follows) and she would send me the refund and free baby. But I was very unwilling to do this. She kept insisting on his return and eventually reached the point where she forbids me to ever sell TS or mention either her or Cham Paradise in relation to him or his bloodlines. If I ever did she would “ruin me and I can take that to the bank” (document follows). I’m stating the bare bones of the threat, you will see in the attached e-mails how viciously these ultimatums were given me. I repeatedly explained to Lane that I would not return TS to her, or to anybody else she found to take him. After the threat of euthanasia I was concerned about what would happen to him even if he went to somebody that she selected. Also, since he was at that time co-owned by Razorback Exotics everything would have to wait until David and I could talk and decide what we wanted to do with him. Lane stepped up the threat levels and sent me an e-mail concerning what she wanted done about TS that I was supposed to sign in front of a notary (document follows) and return to her. Again, I reminded her David was unavailable for a while. She gave me until 1/10 to sign her terms and send back to her. At that time that meant I had 10 days. But within the body of the same letter she said I had to verbally tell her I was going to comply within 4 days or she would consult her attorney and start the ball rolling. I told her that she had better start the ball rolling then because I wasn’t going to return TS to her.
Now all of this is background to explain the partnerships involved, the so-called copyright infringements on pictures posted and the upcoming battle for my share of the Mafana babies. With Legendcham severing all relations with me the Mafana offspring became a problem. Since Vincent of Screameleons had expressed an interest in the remaining breeder female at Lane’s to David I thought I would contact him with a proposition. I offered him the Mafana female in trade after she laid her last clutch of eggs for Lane. I thought that if Vincent was willing this could be an excellent solution to the awkwardness of the Mafana babies. Lane (if she agreed) would send my half of the babies to Vincent as they hatched throughout the rest of the year. Vincent would take all of my share of the babies. In return we could work out chameleon trades, or split the selling price he gets for the babies. He was interested and contacted Lane. That is when I first heard in no uncertain terms from Lane that the deal was for 75/25, never 50/50. (document follows) Within the body of the same letter she further stated that because of all of her expenses in the upkeep of the adults she is shocked I would even expect her to send me anything. However, she will allow me to have 1 – 2% of the offspring, IF I sign a contract that I would never contact any of her customers. She went further to give an example that I would be allowed, after signing a contract, 2 babies from each clutch. But, for example, if only 9 babies were to hatch, I would then only get 1 baby. That is a long ways from 50/50. That is even a long ways from 75/25! Her reasoning is that she has more than I do into the Mafanas. I don’t think so. Her reasoning is the early vet bills (which I offered to pay), feeding and care cost her in excess of $2000. Plus, because her daughter cleans the cages daily she has tacked on an additional $2000 for that service.(document follows) If I were to take these figures at face value that gives Lane an investment of $4000 into the Mafanas. For my side of it I paid out $5150 for the breeders. After one of the females layed I sold 1.1 for $1050 in June which leaves me with a dollar value of $4100 into our breeding bargain. Three adults died. That brings my asset value down to $2696. The 2 females remaining at Legendchams are dying. One female is full of tumors and Lane is allowing her to live out the rest of her life in peace & quiet. Lane is waiting for the final gravid female to lay and does not expect her to survive. That leaves me with 1.2 surviving Mafanas out of the original 11. Those were shipped to Razorback Exotics to continue the Mafana breeding program there. The total value I have left in surviving Mafanas is $1404. If you add to that the $1050 I made in selling the 1.1 that would come to $2454. So, these are my surviving assets from a $5150 purchase, which puts me in the hole by $2696. Lane says she has at least $4000 into them. I think the $2000 food bill is outrageous. I know that 2 of the males died before June. I don’t remember when the 3rd animal died. Lane had all 11 until June. By the middle of June the Mafana population was down to 6. So there were 2 months of feeding and caring for 11 panthers. After June she was feeding 7 (eventually 6) panthers. My estimates at her probable food bill come to approximately $380 for the 8 months. I based this on averaging 12 crickets per day per animal. Lane talks about her $2000 feed bill. Well, she had a few other panthers there in addition to mine. Also she has been feeding various small clutches of babies throughout all of this. So basically I do not care what she shows for insect receipts, I am using common sense in what I feel my panthers actually ate. I also realize there are some costs involved in the power for the heat lamps. I don’t count money spent on power for air conditioning, because the air conditioners will run in the summer whether panthers are in the house or not. The same holds true for running the heaters in the winter. As for paying her daughter $2000 to clean cages……that is between Lane and her daughter. It has nothing to do with our original bargain. It was very simple. 50/50. I buy the breeders, she cares for them and the babies until they are at a saleable age. If she chose to pay her daughter to clean cages that is between them and has nothing to do with our deal. Lane has said she will have $125 invested in each baby before it is of a saleable age. It would be to difficult to figure the costs based on feeding fruit flies, so I am figuring on 24 baby crickets a day per baby just to come up with a approximate cost for feeding them. I come up with a total of about $37 per baby to feed 24 crickets a day for 2 months. That is a very, very long way from $125 per baby. So as far as the adults are concerned, after 8 months I am in the hole on the Mafana purchase by $2696. Lane is out approximate $380 for insects, perhaps another $200 for vet bills. She made a couple of shipments to David at her expense, and I don’t know how much it cost her. You can see there is a vast difference between my expenditures and hers. Naturally the housing and her time makes up for the difference in these costs – making a 50/50 split highly fair. But since I am only allowed 1 – 2% of the offspring, and at that only if I sign a contract with her stating I will never contact anybody she considers her customer (and of course I don’t know who they all are) I walked away from it. I e-mailed her severing all connections, giving her the mafana babies. Not willingly. Oh no. I could definitely win this in court. But it would have to be a Texas court. And I know full well it would be impossible to enforce the win. There are to many ways my share of the babies would “disappear”. How could I prove how many babies hatched, how many went to John? How many got sold quietly under the table? How could I even be confident the babies she would condescend to ship me are even Mafanas? Anything could happen and I am completely powerless to see that she follows through. So I have been basically forced into giving into her demands, she gets ALL of the Mafana babies, and I have been thoroughly cheated.
Following are the relevant e-mails with brief explanations:
In this first e-mail my response to Lane is in parenthesis. This was in response to me e-mail to Lane about John naming a Mafana he didn’t own and presenting it on his site in his breeder line-up like it was his. This is the e-mail that shows the mention of a 50/50 split on the babies that was never refuted by Lane. Also in the first sentence Lane mentions giving me permission to use the pictures she took of the Mafana male - therefore no copyright infringement!
----- Original Message -----
From: Lane Gergely
To: Roger & Shelly
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 7:08 AM
Subject: Re: Hulk
Shelly,
I am a little shocked by this e-mail. It looks like something IVAN would do! First off, I did take the photos for
both YOU and JOHN. (John wasn't involved in Mafanas when I made the purchase which was close to $5000.) I did tell him to please list the Mafana offspring on his web-site, WAY AFTER me discussing
with you my intentions for my part of the offspring. I did not know that he named the Mafana, Hulk. I am not
in favor with names in the first place, I think you already know this. Now the facts are that you bought and paid
for the Mafanas, and that is on PUBLIC record. But I would be MOST HAPPY to provide you with paid receipts
of all of the feeder insects, lighting, meds, vet bills, etc, that I have put into the Mafanas. The fact is that I have
just as much money, and MORE TIME into these chameleons. I have as much right as YOU do, to sell MY part (Yes, I know you have a lot of costs into the animals. Our agreement was that I would buy the animals. You would house and care for the babies and we would split the babies 50/50. I would then sell the animals that survived to recoup some of the money. I never had any argument with the way you chose to dispose of your share of the babies. Never. If you re-read my e-mail you will see that I completely understand why John has a picture of him on his website - because he is selling your babies for you. My problem is with when you click on the males picture it takes you to another page. On that page, with him named and set up like that it gives the impression that these are Johns breeders. Don't you think this is a bit confusing for the public seeing 2 websites claiming ownership?)
of the offspring, anyway I see fit. John is a honest person, and I have a relationship with him. This relationship
is not unlike your relationship with David Gaithe. I have put my ass on the line for both you and the Mafanas,
maybe you should go back and read the BOI. I have sustained ALOT of abuse from Ivan and Matt, because of
my original partnership with you, and escpecially the Mafanas! If the name Hulk is what is bothering you, then
I will ask John to remove the name. We are going to have BIG TIME problems, if you want the pictures removed!
The fact is that Kermit/Hulk is a active breeder. John clearly states that the breeding project on the Mafanas is
being done by me, Legendcham. (I have problems with John's site fully opening, even when I hit the refresh button. I did not see anything on there that shows you as having the animal or doing the breeding. I will try to get the pages to fully open today and see if I can find that.) Do you have a problem with the truth? (Lane, there is absolutely no reason to start being nasty, we have had a close friendship for quite a while and it isn't unusual for an argument to spring up in friendships, but if the argument is because of a misunderstanding both parties work it out and move on. I did not want to contact John immediately - I wanted to talk to you first. If I am wrong then we would have worked it out without every having to upset John. But you sure ruined those good intentions with your quick e-mail forwarding....) With everything that I have done for
you, and all of the **** I have taken from people like Matt, Ivan and even my husband, I am very displeased
with this e-mail. You should have called me! (It was to way late to call you last night. And I just tried to call you so we could talk this over rather than e-mail back & forth but all I get is your answering machine...)These are living breathing animals, NOT EGO enhancers! (Wow, you really are being nasty to me.) This is my take on this. Let me know
how you want to handle it.
Lane
THIS E-MAIL SHOWS HER INTENT TO SHIP MAFANA BABIES TO ME
----- Original Message -----
From: Lane Gergely
To: Roger & Shelly
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: Apology still stands
Shelly,
Just so you know, the female that I sent David did lay one clutch of eggs here. She probably double clutched with
retained sperm, that is common. He will need to carefully mark those eggs. You need to start pushing the Mafanas
right now, well before any eggs hatch. That is what John and myself are doing. With over 5 different bloodlines
between us, and Davids unrelated clutch, I would recommend that. We will see how successful the hatch rate is.
Most of the clutches are small to average, but that is still a few chameleons. Now is the time to market them, and
not get stuck with older ones. Another thing to consider, is that the males will need to show coloration before
selling the clutch as Mafanas. I will ship yours to you, as soon as they are big enough to ship. Hopefully that will
be around 8 weeks or so. I will not sell mine, until the males of the CH'd clutches show coloration. I am also going
to be asking around $450 to $500 for females, and $400 for males. You can always come down, but you can't go
up. I will need a bottom dollar of $375 to even come close to making any profit, so we will just have to see.
Lane
IN THIS E-MAIL LANE ADMITS THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN A MIX-UP ON THE ONE-EYE BABY SENT TO US.
From: "Lane Gergely" <[email protected]>
To: "Roger and Shelly" <[email protected]>
Subject: Did you talk to David
Date: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 8:21 AM
Shelly,
I think that either you or David should post a response to Chamluv on the gallery. I know that he is a grown man, but he has given
out WAY TOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much information. He is not a Tamatave! You are David should mention the fact that there was
a clutch of Andapa/Sambava that hatched a few weeks after the One Eye babies. I would also mention that there might of been a mix-up.
I really don't understand why he posted the same pics twice, after he had already posted a picture of him several days ago. Your prompt
attention to this would be appreciated. I feel like I have made every effort to make good on the possible mix-up. The ball is in both
your and David's court. Let me know when the Mafanas arrive.
Lane
From: "Lane Gergely" <[email protected]>
To: "Roger & Shelly" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: John
Date: Thursday, December 30, 2004 11:03 AM
Shelly,
He reposted 3 additional pictures of the male last nite! I have now consulted my attorney. I sent you a e-mail a little
while ago, and will forward you the e-mail that I sent to him. I am going to refund you the money on the male, and
I want the male shipped back to me. He will then be euthanized upon his arrival. This has damaged both mine, and
John's reputation. I am prepared to force the issue in court, if you do not agree to this.
Lane
From: "Lane Gergely" <[email protected]>
To: "Roger and Shelly" <[email protected]>
Subject: Contract on chameleon Tequila Sunrise
Date: Thursday, December 30, 2004 1:53 PM
Shelly,
Please review this contract concerning TS. If you agree, you will need to copy it, and sign in front of a notary public.
Your bank should have a notary public at no charge. I will need to recieve the signed notarized original via mail by
no latter than 1/9/05.
I Shelly Doughtery, DBA Lizard Lair, agree to fully comply to the terms of this agreement. I understand that failure
to comply with the outlined terms of this agreement may result in a civil suit being brought against me for failure to
comply to the outlined terms.
1. I Shelly Doughtery, DBA Lizard Lair, agree to return the male pardalis chameleon known as Tequila Sunrise
to Lane Gergely, DBA Legend Cham within 48 hours of recieving a refund of $200 via paypal. If I decide to keep
the said male pardalis chameleon known as Tequila Sunrise, I will NEVER use Lane Gergely's name, DBA
Legend Cham or John Lucas's name, DBA Chameleon Paradise in connection with the said pardalis chameleon
known as Tequila Sunrise. This agreement will carry over to any and all AGENTS or PARTNERS acting in my
behalf.
2. I Shelly Doughtery, DBA Lizard Lair agree to have all current pictures of the said pardalis chameleon known as Tequila Sunrise that connect
Lane Gergely, DBA Legend Cham and John Lucas of Chameleon Paradise permanently taken off the internet.
I understand that if I Shelly Doughtery of Lizard Lair decide to keep the chameleon known as Tequila Sunrise,
I can post pictures of him at a latter date, as long as Lane Gergely, DBA Legend Cham or John Lucas of
Chameleon Paradise is NOT USED in anyway. This agreement will carry over to any and all AGENTS or PARTNERS
acting in my behalf.
3. I Shelly Doughtery, DBA Lizard Lair agree that any future chameleons that I purchase from Lane Gergely, DBA Legend Cham will not be shipped
or co-owned by David Gaithe, DBA Razorback Exotics.
I had mentioned to Lane I might quietly sell TS as a pet at a reptile show. At this point I didn’t know what to do, I just wanted out of the situation. Of course I would have to discuss this with David first. However it turns out David wants to keep TS and see how he develops. Razorback Exotics has full ownership of TS now. I had repeatedly told Lane I won’t return TS to her, and after the euthanasia threat I certainly wouldn’t trust anybody she picked out to take TS.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lane Gergely
To: Roger & Shelly
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: Legend Chams terms of agreement regarding Tequila Sunrise
Shelly,
I have talked with John McClusky, he has purchased a couple of chameleons from me. He is willing to take TS and keep
him. I will giving him TS. What is your problem? I am REFUNDING your money, AFTER YOU AGREE TO RETURN THE
CHAMELEON! I will NOT agree to have him sold for any amount of MONEY! Refunding your money, and giving you a free
Ambilobe is MORE than FAIR! I can only assume that you WANT to damage my reputation and our friendship! I don't want
DAVID to SELL anything that came from me! ARE YOU GOING TO SIGN THE AGREEMENT, AND RETURN THE CHAMELEON?
Let me know STAT!
Lane
THIS IS WHERE SHE GAVE ME UNTIL 1/10 TO RETURN HER CONTRACT, THREATENED TO RUIN ME IF I DIDN’T COMPLY, THEN TURNED AROUND AND GAVE ME 4 DAYS TO COMPLY – ALL WITHIN 1 LETTER. IT DID NOT MATTER THAT DAVID WAS INVOLVED IN A FAMILY EMERGENCY AND COULDN’T BE REACHED.
From: "Lane Gergely" <[email protected]>
To: "Roger and Shelly" <[email protected]>
Subject: Getting things straigt
Date: Thursday, December 30, 2004 4:40 PM
Shelly,
After David posted those outrageous, and untruthful comments on the gallery, things changed. Both you and I agreed last nite
that ALL of the pictures and comments needed to be removed. That did not happen, and has become much worst. You have
allowed your new best friend to slash not only me, but John, who is very innocent! I am going to warn you ONE LAST TIME,
if you do not sign the agreement that I e-mailed to you, and return it by 1/10/05, along with TS after you recieve your money
refund, ALL HELL WILL BREAK LOSE! You don't EVEN want to go there, I ASSURE YOU! You need to do the right thing, and
return a chameleon that you are not satisfied with. You are being generously compensated! If you ask David to sell TS or sell
TS yourself, you will be RUINED! YOU CAN TAKE THAT TO THE BANK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If I don't get COMMITMENT from you BEFORE I leave on Monday, I will start the ball rolling while I am out of town. I have been
on the phone today with other breeders, and they think that both your and Davids actions are way over the top! Like I said on the
phone, neither you or David sent me pictures of the male before he was posted! I have asked to get pictures several times! I guess
you are going to deny that. Well it just so happens that I have e-mails that I sent you asking for pictures. I HATE LIARS!
Lane
OK, I ADMIT IT, AT THIS POINT I’M GETTING VERY MAD
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger & Shelly
To: Lane Gergely
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 5:07 PM
Subject: Re: Legend Chams terms of agreement regarding Tequila Sunrise
I have already told you I have to wait to talk to David - obviously! He isn't around right now - REMEMBER?! His brother died he has a few more important things to do right now! You just went through that, do you think you are the ONLY one who suffers a loss?! I have not said I am for sure going to sell him but am seriously considering it. I stated I wasn't going to sell him through KingSnake, but privately. This sale does not affect you. The people don't know you, never heard of you and will never hear of any of this from me. I thought I was being DECENT by not taking you money if I don't return the chameleon to you!!!!!!!!! I THOUGHT it would be a sort of robbery to do so!!!! You need to calm down and start thinking because you are looking for evil everywhere you look. I have NEVER, EVER SCREWED YOU AND DO NOT DESERVE THE WAY YOU ARE TREATING ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I I am not the bad guy but I am starting to become extremely PISSED over your continuous attacks on me!!!!!!!!
The relevant part of this e-mail is to show Lane has gone from calling TS a Sambava/Andapa to insinuating he didn’t come from her at all. Highly insulting. We now have pictures of TS and the Sambava/Andapa male together and guess what? They look like twins! I really do have to respond to a few asinine things she has put into this e-mail. First off she blames me for her selling One Eye to “my” customer Doug who killed him. The truth is Jovanna responded first to the flier I sent out about him. But Doug contacted Lane and convinced her that One Eye would end up with Ivan and Jovanna shouldn’t get him. Lane agreed and said Doug could have One Eye. That left me with the unpleasant & unfair task of informing Jovanna she could not have One Eye. Lane refers to a trip I took to Texas that cost thousands of dollars. That was a trip purchased at a charitable auction for SeaWorld that did cost them thousands of dollars. The trip was for 8 people and they had room for 1 more, so invited me. I provided my own air fair to fly down, arrived with a gift that cost me $100. I had also previously sent her 2 17# boxes of prime cuts of elk & moose steaks, trout and sausages. I know this is petty, but Lane tries to give the impression I’m a “taker”, when in fact there has been giving on both sides. Absolutely tacky to bring such things up!
From: "Lane Gergely" <[email protected]>
To: "Roger & Shelly" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Legend Chams terms of agreement regarding Tequila Sunrise
Date: Thursday, December 30, 2004 7:26 PM
Shelly,
I did not sell the chameleon to David! I sold it to YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lets get this straight, he does not have ANY SAY on the
chameleon, PERIOD! If you have a agreement with him, then YOU need to make good on it. You are trying to have your
cake and eat it too. I do not deserve the treatment that I have gotten from either you or David. I have PLENTY of people
that will attest to that! You are right, it is robbery to keep a chameleon that you have allowed your agent or partner to
complain about on a public forum. It is also very immoral! I have found a good home for TS, MUCH better than the one
he has now! I have been very DECENT to you, but if you want me to get nasty then go right ahead and keep this nonsense
up. You did not have a problem, when I STOOD UP FOR YOU with Ivan. That is more than I can say for you right now.
Maybe you think that you will make more that $200 on TS, I don't know. You asked me to sell my prized chameleon One
Eye to YOUR customer Doug, and he killed him. I have had enough of this BS. I never expected a friend that I invited to
take a ONCE IN A LIFETIME trip, that cost several thousand dollars to treat me like this. But I should have gotten a clue a
long time ago. You wanted to buy a cookbook that Tony has, so we bought it for you and sent it for a early Christmas present.
Friendship = Loyalty, and doing to others as you would want them to do to you! How would you like to be in my shoes.
When I sold my breeders, you were getting totally out of the breeding end of the chameleons. You told me that you wanted
to buy and resell only. Now these attacks by your buddy David are CLEARLY the result of you not getting the Picassos or
Neon Man babies. You had a beautiful Picasso male, that YOU SOLD! I have trusted that you would do what you say, but
you have not. I am NOT STUPID Shelly, so DON"T PLAY ME FOR A FOOL. I pray that everytime you look at your neat
keychain with the Beluga whale, remember that you once had a friend that made that keychain possible. BUT I WON'T HOLD MY BREATH
on that one. When we talk on the phone, you tell me that everything will be taken care of. That was yesterday! IF YOU KEEP
THAT CHAMELEON, I WILL FIGHT YOU LIKE I HAVE NEVER FOUGHT BEFORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have done everything HUMANLY
possible to correct the situation with Tequila Sunrise not being a ONE EYE male. I want you to UNDERSTAND that he Andapas hatched
3 to 4 weeks after the One Eye babies did, and THERE ARE NO CHAMELEONS FROM EITHER CLUTCH THAT ARE THE
SIZE of the male, that YOU and DAVID are claiming to be the chameleon that I shipped. I have talked to several people that
own either a One Eye baby, or the Andapa/Sambava babies. In fact, my other customers pointed that out to me. I don't
mind being screwed for a little money, but these posts on KS are WORST than ANYTHING that Ivan or Matt for that matter
EVER did! John and myself are soooooooooo through with this. We can all end this in a civil manner, or drag this out.
Yes, Shelly I do understand what losing a loved one is all about! DO YOU?????????????????????????????????
I will take your previous e-mails as a NO to returned the SAID chameleon, refund, and restitution ( free Ambilobe). No need
to contact me again. ALL future communication will be handled by lawyers. You are going to need one!
Lane
This is Lanes demands to David, followed by his response to her. She did not have the courtesy to respond back to him, but instead directed her answer to me.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lane Gergely
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 11:57 AM
Subject: RE: Removal of pictures
Mr David Gaithe,
I Lane Gergely of Legendcham, am requesting that you immediately remove all photos of the male that was sold to Shelly
of Lizard Lair. I have discussed this issue with my attorney. A monetary refund will be issued to Shelly of Lizard Lair. The
male will be shipped back to me within 48 hours of her recieving the refund. Due to the fact that I will be out of state all of next
week, the refund will occur the following Monday. If all pictures are not immediately removed, I will have my attorney file a
restraining order against David Gaithe of Razorback Exotics ( aka, paperkid ). Your prompt attention to this matter is requested.
I am also requesting that you do NOT post pictures of the said male on the internet, that includes any and all forums, private e-mails,
etc. To prevent any legal action, I will need for you to respond to this e-mail.
Sincerely,
Lane Gergely
Legendcham
----- Original Message -----
From: David Gaithe
To: Lane Gergely
Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 3:28 AM
Subject: Re: Removal of pictures
My business partner here in Arkansas and myself will have to contact our attorney to see if any of what you have said holds it's weight. I have already talked to my sister-in-law in Colorado who is a attorney and she has advised me to not talk with you until I have talked with our attorney too. If you would please send me the name of your attorney and the name of his law firm and a phone number that he can be reached at it would be most appreciated. At this point in time any other communications will have to be done through our attorneys to protect both parties until my personal family issues have been resolved.
Thank you very much,
David Gaithe
----- Original Message -----
From: Lane Gergely
To: Roger and Shelly
Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 8:37 AM
Subject: Fw: Removal of pictures
Please REMOVE my name from your web-site and KS from all pictures that I have taken. I do not want my name to
be associated with either Lizard Lair or Razorback Exotics in any way. I will not conduct any future business with
Lizard Lair unless a acceptable contract is drawn up at Lizard Lair's expense, and agreed upon by both parties. I am not required to provide David
with my attorney information.
Lane Gergely,
Legend Cham
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger & Shelly
To: Lane Gergely
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 12:12 PM
Lane,
Vincent said you wanted me to call you. I tried but got your answering machine. So if you want to talk by phone you will have to call me. Or e-mail me. I have not contacted you because you made it clear to never contact you again. I felt that since we both trust Vincent he would be a comfortable solution for both of us in the handling of the Mafana babies and the remaining Mafana female. How do you want to proceed?
Shelly
I will be away from home for the next hour....
THIS IS THE RESPONSE WHERE I FIRST LEARNED LANE FELT OUR PARTNERSHIP WAS FOR 75/25, BUT THEN DROPPED IT TO 1-2% AND HER FINAL ULTIMATUM
From: "Lane Gergely" <[email protected]>
To: "Roger & Shelly" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re:
Date: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 9:38 AM
Shelly,
Vince did call me on Monday to inform me that you had called him. I told him exactly what I told you in a previous
e-mail. That is, no further business will conducted with Lizardlair, unless a agreement is reached with both parties
and a contract is drawn up. Again, you put the cart before the horse. My CPA has the preliminary figures on the costs
that I have sustained in the adult Mafanas. The costs of the feeder insects, gutload, vitamins, fresh fruit, etc for the
eight month period between May first and Dec is staggering! I have spent around $2,400 on the feeding of the adults
alone! That does not include paying employees for daily cage cleaning etc. That expense is around $2,000. None
of these figures include meds, vet visits or even my time and expertise! Japser was acclimated, and sent per your request
to Razorback Exotics along with a acclimated GRAVID female. I did not even breed Jasper! The bottomline to all of this, is that I have incurred more
expense than the orginal purchase price on the adult breeder Mafanas. I still have the female with tumors, along with
a breeder female that is gravid. The gravid female is not doing very well, she still has not laid, and looks to be egg
bound. If her condition continues to decline, then I will need to euthinize her and remove the eggs. I have returned
all of the Mafanas at MY cost on shipping, including, Jasper, and the gravid female. Cory did not know how to do the
UPS account information, so Sure-Life has paid ALL of the shipping of chameleons that have been sent to your agent,
Razorback Exotics. You took my pictures and put the name Kermit on them for your web-site, and had a fit when John
put the name of Hulk on MY picture. I CAN VERY easily prove that I have incurred more expense on the adult Mafanas
than your the original purchase price of these chameleons. I HAVE BEEN MORE THAN FAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!! In fact, you have
taken extreme advantage of me. I have also figured out the cost of raising the babies to a age that they can safely be
shipped. My cost is around $125 PER chameleon! At wholesale I am only making $25 per chameleon on the Ambilobes.
I was not aware that Screameleons was a customer or yours, or that you have sold him any chameleons. I can however
prove that he is a customer of Legendcham. To bring another third party into this is very poor ethics! I will not continue
to tolerate this! I did notice that you sent John a e-mail, stating that you had a 50/50 interest in the offpsring! That was
NEVER discussed with ME! When we were partners, we did come to a arrangement of 75/25. The person breeding,feeding,
hatching and raising would have a 75% interest in the offspring. Every chameleon that I sent you, either died, or was
sold! Both you and David damaged my reputation on not only the sale of my One Eye male, remember your customer
Doug? But also on the reported male that David posted as a One Eye male. The male that he posted DEFINATELY has
Tamatave in him, and I did not HAVE any tamatave females! NO WAY can that male be either Ambilobe, or Andapa/Sambava.
Matt has already posted my name, John's name on the BOI reguarding this. Neither you or David have the money to
pay for the damage that this has caused to my reputation. I am a ESTABLISHED BREEDER, unlike you or David! I can
easily prove that as well. The BOI is forever, and the posts can't be removed. I had to contact KS on the posts that
David was making. I contacted their legal department, with proof and they removed the pics and the ads. You and David
DID absolutely nothing! I offered you a MORE than fair solution, you had till 1/10/04 to take me up on the offer and
you declined. It was more important for you and David to continue to print LIES about me on the internet. Please carefully
read this next part!!!!!!!!!! I am going to offer you a maximum of two offpring from each clutch of Mafanas, most of the
clutches are less than 15 eggs. If less than nine survive to a safe shippable age, then the offer is ONE. Again, you would
have to agree NOT to use my name or pictures in ANYWAY. You would also have to agree to not to contact ANY of my
established customers with the sale of the offspring. I really can't believe after all that has been done, that you would
even ask for ANY of the offspring at ALL. I told you several times, recently that I had incurred more expense than the
original purchase price of the animals. I returned them to your agent in top conditon, and even bred a female for you.
Remember the little female in the cage up front? I raised her to adulthood, and bred her for you. YOU HAVE NEVER EVER
OFFER TO PAY ME ONE DIME! So either take the offer, or get a attorney and we can argue the facts in court! DO NOT
CONTACT ME ANYMORE, or bother my customers anymore! You may contact me with a response on my offer of one
to two offpring of each clutch, but only that!
Lane Gergely,
Legendcham
I SEVER ALL TIES WITH LEGENDCHAM AND WALK AWAY FROM THE BABIES SHE OWES ME
From: "Roger & Shelly" <[email protected]>
To: "Lane Gergely" <[email protected]>
Subject: Mafanas
Date: Thursday, January 13, 2005 8:26 PM
Lane,
After careful and full consideration we have decided to sever all ties to Legendcham and will never contact you again other than official government tax information requirements. As to your established customers, we do not have a list of said customers, and as we will no longer be referring to any chameleons we (Lizard Lair / Legendcham) have bred together we will contact whomever we wish in all future sales of any of our (Lizard Lair / Razorback Exotics) reptiles. In reference to chameleons I have purchased from Legendcham, with the exception of the Ambilobe baby purchased as a One Eye baby (TS), because Lizard Lair no longer owns any interest in this animal (now owned exclusively by Razorback Exotics), we will contact whomever we wish for future sales and/or breeding purposes. As stated above we will not contact you again, please return the favor.
Shelly
