Leopard Gecko Registry; Unneeded Bureaucracy?

[The NY Gecko]

This is all just my opinion. I don't see where this would help me. I know my bloodlines. This just creates more work.

The only people it helps are the smaller breeders. It would validate their breeders and inflate their business. Taking away from the larger breeders faster. The people who come out with the new morphs wouldn't make as much because they will be competing with their own offspring.

It takes a lot of money to come up with new things. Feeding breeders, making hets, and all the time involved. Now the person you sell your offspring could potentionally charge the same price as you.

I would rather make my own reputation rather than ride someone else's. I would feel better having earned someones business for my work than the person i bought it from.

The idea of a public lineage site is appealing. I just am leary of problems that could stem from this. With that said please withdraw my name from your breeder list. Best of luck and i wish you all well.

so basically you just want everything to go to the guys that have been aorund the block then? im srry but this kinda irks me. as for role models, well kelli i do hold you in high regard. youve been "around the block" and if waht your doing works then ill be trying my damndest along the way to mimic you. as long as its within reason. no i know craigs not o nthe list but thats not wha ti msaying. i was saying that this might stop things such as that from occuring. it was just an example. Like i doubt youd want people brantishing your name/bloodline all over some half normal-half tangerine gecko that while its beautiful cuz its a gecko isnt something that you want tarnishing your rep.

 

[g&mgeckos]

OK.... where to start..... this looks like a good place...

Role model? Well, I try to be an honest person that helps others, but I am only a gecko breeder.

Kelli come on now! This is so far from the truth. I know you are modest at times and this seems to be one. If you want to be or not you are a ROLE MODEL! I just wonder what Robin would say if she saw that. If you still have doubt refer back to the last two post you made on the Jungle Snows and Electra's hatchlings.

The only people it helps are the smaller breeders. It would validate their breeders and inflate their business. Taking away from the larger breeders faster.

Sorry I don't think this is just for smaller breeders. And I don't believe it will take away from the bigger breeders either. What I mean is Urban is going to sell thier geckos every year and sell them fast just as they have. I just don't see someone taking one of my tangs over Kelli's even though mine are partically from her lines.

I would rather make my own reputation rather than ride someone else's. I would feel better having earned someones business for my work than the person i bought it from.

I would too. But I think a reputation has more to do than just the animals also. Don't get me wrong the animals are a big part of it. Honesty has alot to do with it good service is another. Everybody starts somewhere and I think being able to verify you have quality breeder stock is not only showing the customer you have nice animals but respect for them and the people your animals came from.

It takes a lot of money to come up with new things. Feeding breeders, making hets, and all the time involved. Now the person you sell your offspring could potentionally charge the same price as you.

Your right it takes alot of time and alot of money to come up with new things. As far as the offsring you sell being able to cut into the furture market value, I think that as and will be an ongoing issue. The LGR isn't going to change that. It is called supply and demand. The only way to keep it from happening is to not sell any babies. Hey thats an idea! LOL! I know we all wish we could keep all of our babies but not always possible.

Ian I think you made a good point. You get what you pay for.

 

[The NY Gecko]

i still think that to get mad over it giving the smaller breeders a chance is kinda rediculous. they(we) need a chance too. its not fair to say it would ruin it for the big guys. its not a monopoly

 

[dragonflyreptiles]

Gosh too much to read but I did catch onto one thing, I have an Urban male that is not direct from Urban Geckos, so that means that I cannot list him as an urban male without alot of who I bough t him from and who he bought him from to insure the lien to you.

So my higer $$ purchases to insure a line being into my colony are now worthless without a ton of hassle of having multiple sellers confirm the line when it is sold and resold.

I do plan to try out the system to see if it helps me in record keeping but I am a bit concerned now that some of my higher $$ geckos are now new lines due to the hassle of original breeder confirmation.

 

[The NY Gecko]

no thats not true, my point is id like to see people go throught the "trouble" even though its not that bad and get rid of false advertising

 

[The NY Gecko]

http://www.reptileauction.com/cgi-b...tegory=a_lizard_leopardgeckos&item=1139359399

and this is exactly wha tim talking about

 

[dragonflyreptiles]

OK.... where to start..... this looks like a good place...



Kelli come on now! This is so far from the truth. I know you are modest at times and this seems to be one. If you want to be or not you are a ROLE MODEL! I just wonder what Robin would say if she saw that. If you still have doubt refer back to the last two post you made on the Jungle Snows and Electra's hatchlings.

I think that comment was totally uncalled for, EVERYONE knows what Kelli has gone threw in the last year and that is just too low of a blow for you or anyone to expect anything of her.

Be glad she is still able to work with the leos and provide us buyers with great lines and wonderful genetics.

This just makes me sick, I cannot even believe you just typed that at all!

How about if you walk 1 day, just 1 in Kellis shoes then come back here and say what you can and cannot do you!

This entier post would have been


But I am unable to pay a fine at this time!

 

[The NY Gecko]

wendy. stop. thats not the point g&m was making. she was just trying to tell kelli how good of a breeder she is and how much ppl look up to her. and ill second that motion. that goes for everyone here whos ahd eggs. your farther along than i am. i havent even gotten a single clutch, which to me means your miles ahead of me. heck some of the guys on here are cranking out 500+ a year. give me one good reason they havent earned my respect and ill attempt sword swallowing

 

[dragonflyreptiles]

Tom you can take it any way you want but trying to tell someone how they should feel , act and do is something else. And trying to get a heart string by using another person name to say you should or should not do something is even worse.

Walk in someone else's shoes for a day, anyones, and you will see a different angle to verything that is said and done!

 

[The NY Gecko]

im not looking to get into a rant, or pick a fight, im simply stating what g&m said was not hostile. im not a normally hostile person. i am blunt however and i will speak my mind. im not trying to ge tupset. but i do believe that she was teasing. g&m come step in and stop me when im wrong

 

[WindyO]

What are you reading Tom? I don't understand why you feel the need to put words in my mouth. If you are searching for the point in what i said it is this. What do the big breeders get from it? I am a small hoby breeder myself and aside from looking up others lineage i can't find a use for this. If you can good luck with it. Personally i will spend my money improving my bloodlines and letting my geckos speak for themselves. This is my decision so best wishes to you and yours.

As for monopolies, what are you talking about? You have the ability to make whatever you put into this. There may be breeders who get more for their animals but how does this effect you?

Now for Glenn. I'm sorry but why would you pay for a $600 gecko from her when you could under-cut her for $550. With these documents you could and probably would show them that they have the same exact lineage for $50 less. Do you really not see that happening. The people who make the product need to comp the costs on them. Or they can't afford to start their next projects. Believe it or not they do need to feed themselves.

As for the supply and demand comment , you said it all. I look at this as a hobby and am thankful for everyones contributions to it. Without them we would still have wild caught geckos. I only care about what i think is best for this as a hobby. Which i believe is supporting the people. Not in trying to make a quick buck. What you think is better for a business is your opinion. I'm not talking about that subject.

 

[dragonflyreptiles]

This entire thread has gotten out of hand!

It has started from a would you, what do you think of it to a who some think are obligated to use the system.

That is just beyond pathetic!

Anyone at anytime can do anything they want, and for ANYONE to say that anyone is obligated by morals or other standings to participate is obscene at best.

I do plan to participate and am trying to get photos of all of my 100+ leos to register, but with 2 children that takes time, good photos and a lot on patience.

It also means that any leo not bought direct from a ***BREEDER*** that cannot be confirmed direct or without tracing people down is a pain.

Now Id love to claim my Urban male as my own breeder that I bought second hand but then some would complain about that, as oh she has an Urban listed as an original breeder.

I still feel that this is a great comparison to the AKC so kill me, thats all I know about registrations of animals well that and the UKC but same idea.

I think NOW that it is a good start, I may not be able to register all of my purchases from the original line but the records will benefit others in the future.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Since the ACR has been brought up and referenced several times in this discussion, I would just like to point out that the ACR was not created with the purpose of being able to stop anyone from mislabeling stuff or to control labeling standards for classifieds or auctions or shows. It seems like this is a central theme in the discussions I've read about getting a registry going for leos, and I wanted it to be noted that the ACR is not involved in any way in setting, establishing, maintaining, enforcing, encouraging, or discouraging any standards.

Thank you for posting, Serp. Your input is always appreciated!

The LGR's goal is not to "control" standards either. However, I myself (and I know many others) get thoroughly disgusted with some of the outragous claims we see on some auctions, classifieds and forums. Steven and I have been talking, and we may simply use a "panel of judges" to make a final decision on the more questionable registrations (IE Normals registered as SHTCT). That "panel of judges" would be "voted into office" by the Leopard Gecko Community itself, not by the LGR. If it is a serious concern of the Leo Community that the LGR may disregard any control on what gets registered as what. We don't want to do that, but in the end, this is about the Leo Community as a whole and not about us as the founders.

Role model? Well, I try to be an honest person that helps others, but I am only a gecko breeder.

Kelli, I think a lot of people look up to you (I know I do) and think of you more then just a "gecko breeder." That in now way shape or form is a push to have to be an active member with the LGR. It is simply meant as a compliment.

The idea of a public lineage site is appealing. I just am leary of problems that could stem from this.

Feel free to email me and discuss your apprehention privately if you wish. I am all to happy to listen to your concerns (among everyone elses) and answer any questions.

So my higer $$ purchases to insure a line being into my colony are now worthless without a ton of hassle of having multiple sellers confirm the line when it is sold and resold.

I think worthless is an extremely harsh word to use. Anyone is free to place in the comments section what line their gecko originated from. Yes, we will be verifying it for most individuals. As an example, if KelliH was to register one of her geckos as a particular line (not established by herself), the LGR would certainly not research the fact. She herself has a wonderful reputation that speaks for itself, and I think it would be a slap in the face for the LGR to question her on her lines.

I'm sorry but why would you pay for a $600 gecko from her when you could under-cut her for $550. With these documents you could and probably would show them that they have the same exact lineage for $50 less.

The point of the LGR is certainly not to undercut anyones sales. Regardless of the LGR (or the ACR), that does happen. It personally disgusts me when I see Rich's Lav Stripes for sale for $2000 and I find an unknown breeder selling the same morph for $800. Come on, that's ludacris. Personally, I'd rather have Rich's line because of who it was coming from.

It also means that any leo not bought direct from a ***BREEDER*** that cannot be confirmed direct or without tracing people down is a pain. Now Id love to claim my Urban male as my own breeder that I bought second hand but then some would complain about that, as oh she has an Urban listed as an original breeder.

Do not worry about tracking people down, that is the LGR'S responsibility. I'm thinking (from reading your post) that maybe you're thinking that the "new line" in the"family tree" part means that you had to originally breed the animal. That is not true. If your name is not listed as the breeder, no one should consider you the breeder of that animal.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

I want everyone to know, that we are open to suggestions from everyone about how to handle things. If you have a thought on how something would work better, please let us know!

 

[bro paul]

Are there really that many people out there frustrated by the "outrageous claims" and misrepresented leopard geckos on auctions/forums/classifieds? I really don't notice them...or perhaps I don't look for them. When I come across one I usually find it slightly entertaining anyway. Maybe I'm bored...? It just seems like a normal part of the terrain in any hobby.

 

[The NY Gecko]

brian. ill make this clear as possible. read what you said. the par ti bolded out and quoted. maybe youll understand where im coming from if you read it with a little bit of thought, more than you hastily put down when you typed it. think about how that sounds to someone like me. me and you already started off on the wrong foot. im a true beliver in forgiveness. but dont make it a chore.

 

[KelliH]

The only way to keep it from happening is to not sell any babies. Hey thats an idea! LOL! I know we all wish we could keep all of our babies but not always possible.

Oh man, that would be a dream come true! I could hoard all my geckos and have them all to myself! Too bad I have to sleep

Stephanie, I just may take you up on that email.

Glen and Wendy, thanks for caring

Tom, just for the record, I don't consider myself a "big breeder", I consider myself a smalltime breeder/hobbiest with a lot of geckos

 

[g&mgeckos]

I think that comment was totally uncalled for, EVERYONE knows what Kelli has gone threw in the last year and that is just too low of a blow for you or anyone to expect anything of her.

Be glad she is still able to work with the leos and provide us buyers with great lines and wonderful genetics.

This just makes me sick, I cannot even believe you just typed that at all!

How about if you walk 1 day, just 1 in Kellis shoes then come back here and say what you can and cannot do you!

This entier post would have been


But I am unable to pay a fine at this time!

Wendy, I am very sorry you took that comment the way you did, and hopefully Kelli doesn't take it that way either. I myself consider it a priveledge to be able to have her here and to still be working on some of the best geckos I have seen. I just hope that she knows me well enough to know I wasn't trying to take a cheap shot at her or any one else. But as someone else as stated already many people here and on other forums look up to her and what she as done. I think that says alot for who she is. Does she like being in the spot light, well I think her comments said it all. I will just leave it I'm sorry.

Tom you can take it any way you want but trying to tell someone how they should feel , act and do is something else. And trying to get a heart string by using another person name to say you should or should not do something is even worse.

Walk in someone else's shoes for a day, anyones, and you will see a different angle to verything that is said and done!

Tom thank you for trying to explain. But don't cause yourself any problems. Wendy I wasn't by any means trying to tell her how to feel, or act. And again I am sorry you took it that way.

Now for Glenn. I'm sorry but why would you pay for a $600 gecko from her when you could under-cut her for $550. With these documents you could and probably would show them that they have the same exact lineage for $50 less. Do you really not see that happening. The people who make the product need to comp the costs on them. Or they can't afford to start their next projects. Believe it or not they do need to feed themselves.

As for the supply and demand comment , you said it all. I look at this as a hobby and am thankful for everyones contributions to it. Without them we would still have wild caught geckos. I only care about what i think is best for this as a hobby. Which i believe is supporting the people. Not in trying to make a quick buck. What you think is better for a business is your opinion. I'm not talking about that subject.

Yes I understand what you are saying. Would I do it? NO. Would someone else? Well it happens all the time already. I plan on selling my offspring for what I think they are worth. Hopefully it doesn't cause any problems for anyone. And the second part I am with you. Much respect to the ones that have paid the dues..........

Well this is it guys I am out on this thread. Steph I will be emailing you.

 

[The NY Gecko]

lol i wish we were all smal ltime, sharing the gold. but when you crank out 500+ i dont think small becomes applicable. im smalltime kelli. and next to tremper i always will be. hopefully, maybe someday, i will be where you are now, its my goal. something i would see as a personal accomplishment. accomplishment and success doesnt go by how much money youve made, it goes by how much of your own golas youve accomplished and how much pride you have in yourself by doing that. thats what success will always be measured by for me.

 

[The NY Gecko]

as for undercutting its free enterprise and who ever has the lowest prices will seel first. supply and demand. i tell you one thign though. if i had some of mike wilbanks leuscistics (BP's) i wouldnt be the person to sel lthem for 200,000. id sell them for 100 or maybe 50g. why? because mine would sell first and id be lowereing the market prices eventually to where someone like me right now could own one jsut as a pet. i realize that may seem coldhearted. and it is to a degree. but 200K is alot for any animal. i would never expect anyone to pay me that for one.

its late and im off. nite everyone