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lesser education

I think most agree with you on that. BUT what's the deal with some lessers being more black and others being more brown? That's what I can't find an answer to.
 
It seems like it would have a lot to do with what kind of Normals those Lessers came from. All of the really nice Lessers I've seen have come from pretty Normals. I would imagine that if you take a run of the mill Lesser, and breed it with a light, reduced Normal, you could get a lighter colored Lesser, and vice versa. I don't think it has anything to do with how far removed it is from a "Daddy". If you take that Daddy, and breed it to a crappy Normal, you might not get really nice Lessers.
 
yep, I understand that Larry, and thanks for coming on board here. I can see how a quality normal can influence the blush, lighter color and pattern. But what about the blacker colored lessers verses the brown lessers with just as much blush? Some lessers have a black look with blush, some lessers are brown with blush. Why is that? Is it the lesser bloodline? if so which is which?
 
Okay, I have a dumb question. I thought all Lessers came from the original Platty Daddy. Is that not the case?

I'm confused by there being multiple "lines" of Lessers since I thought they all came from the Platty Daddy...in which case, they'd all be the same "line," technically. (I've only used "lines" to define different actual genetic lines, such as the different types of Axanthics, which all came from different WC/CH snakes, whether compatible with each other or not.)
 
I think you're right Krystal. It seems that if it can be considered a Lesser, it would have to come from the original Platty Daddy. I've never heard of anyone importing another Platty, and I thought that any Lesser appearing animals imported afterwards were the Butters. I don't know.
 
I've never heard of anyone importing another Platty,
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You only need to import another lesser from the wild to name your own line, for Savings grace reptiles to name their own line it would mean that they purchased and brought in a wild caught lesser, correct? :shrug01:

Also, the butter was produced the same year as the lesser :)
 
snakesRkewl said:
You only need to import another lesser from the wild to name your own line, for Savings grace reptiles to name their own line it would mean that they purchased and brought in a wild caught lesser, correct? :shrug01:

I guess I always thought that since "Lesser" meant Lesser than Platinum, and since Ralph Davis is the only person I know of that has imported a Platinum, only he could have made the true Lesser.

For example; How do those that import Lessers, know they came from Platinums? If they don't know, how can they be called Lessers? It's cool none-the-less.
Click to expand...
 
My GUESS on the original question here (black vs. brown) is that it is somewhat random. I have seen MANY really nice DARK BLACK lessers produce some brown offspring and vice versa. I think it kinda goes back to the "which normal was used" thought.

It takes 2 to tango so if the "Other half" didn't mix well with the lesser being used than one might not get the results they were hoping for.
I hope this makes sense.

Ultimately the black vs. brown would come down to selective breeding I think.

Then again, I could be very wrong about all this:shrug01::rofl:
 
maze031 said:
For example; How do those that import Lessers, know they came from Platinums? If they don't know, how can they be called Lessers? It's cool none-the-less.
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The lesser gene came in attached to the het platty making it a platty daddy, but the lesser gene does not need to come from a platty to be called a lesser, it is what it is, a co-dominate trait.

Platinum is a long lost name that means absolutely nothing.
A lesser is a lesser platinum, they are one and the same, we just don't use the platinum name anymore and simply call it a lesser.
 
snakesRkewl said:
The lesser gene came in attached to the het platty making it a platty daddy, but the lesser gene does not need to come from a platty to be called a lesser, it is what it is, a co-dominate trait.

Platinum is a long lost name that means absolutely nothing.
A lesser is a lesser platinum, they are one and the same, we just don't use the platinum name anymore and simply call it a lesser.
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I think we're getting a couple things mixed up here. Yes, Lesser Platinums ("Lessers") are named as such because they came from RDR's original Platinum ("Platty Daddy") import. Since they didn't look quite like the Platinum, they were named Lesser Platinums. The "platinum" in "Lesser Platinum" has no meaning, no, but the morph Platinum does.

Larry and I weren't referring to the name game, here. Lessers, as far as I understand it, all came from the original Platinum, so technically, there aren't any "lines" of Lessers out there--they're all from the same line. What Larry is asking is if there exist different "lines" of Lessers, they would have had to come from the wild as Lessers since no one has announced finding another Platinum out there anywhere. His concern is this: If someone brought a morph they called a Lesser from the wild, how do we know this Lesser came from a Platinum? And if it didn't (i.e., if it did not produce a Platinum when mixed with the hidden Platinum gene), then it can't really be called a Lesser. It has completely different genetics and, therefore, is a completely different morph. Butters could be considered Lesser Platinums, as some do, but if they can't produce Platinums, then they are a distinct morph that is separate from real Lessers. (Has anyone tried this?)

Now, my definition of "line" may not be the same as what others use. Some may define a "line" or "bloodline" as a selective breeding process by a particular breeder to make a morph look a certain way, even if all snakes of that particular morph are originally from the same animal. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Excalibur line of Lavender Albinos fits this description.) In that case, there do seem to be different "lines" of Lessers where someone has bred for higher-contrast or more brown Lessers, like what the OP described.
 
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So all Lessers are from the original Platty Daddy. That I get. And all variations such as the SG Line are the outcome from specific breeding with-in the line that accentuate color or brightness. OK.

Are all Butters from the original platty daddy? If so wouldn't a Butter be nothing more than a more extreme variation of say a SG line Lesser?

And no one has a line that produces pure brown/yellow or black(er)/yellow lesser as it is a random event.

Did I get this right?
 
Personally I would think all the butters and lessers are compatible with the platinum gene. I've never heard of an incompatible pairing between the two but who knows. Butters and Lessers are like Cinni's and Black Pastels
 
Maybe someone would want to check with Saving Grace and find out if their line came from an imported animal..? I have limited time so am unable to do such things myself.
 
There is lessers on KS now from a wild caught line, I didn't figure there was only one found in the wild.

Hey Jerry, you should let me pair my yb female with your specter next year.. Because you like me
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It's not out of the question that's for sure :D
I have my large yb and a bumblebee slated for him so far next season, if he gets to a good size I see no reason why I couldn't add another female into the mix.
Keep in touch and we'll see if we can't make that happen :thumbsup:
 
R. Eventide said:
I think we're getting a couple things mixed up here. Yes, Lesser Platinums ("Lessers") are named as such because they came from RDR's original Platinum ("Platty Daddy") import. Since they didn't look quite like the Platinum, they were named Lesser Platinums. The "platinum" in "Lesser Platinum" has no meaning, no, but the morph Platinum does.

Larry and I weren't referring to the name game, here. Lessers, as far as I understand it, all came from the original Platinum, so technically, there aren't any "lines" of Lessers out there--they're all from the same line. What Larry is asking is if there exist different "lines" of Lessers, they would have had to come from the wild as Lessers since no one has announced finding another Platinum out there anywhere. His concern is this: If someone brought a morph they called a Lesser from the wild, how do we know this Lesser came from a Platinum? And if it didn't (i.e., if it did not produce a Platinum when mixed with the hidden Platinum gene), then it can't really be called a Lesser. It has completely different genetics and, therefore, is a completely different morph. Butters could be considered Lesser Platinums, as some do, but if they can't produce Platinums, then they are a distinct morph that is separate from real Lessers. (Has anyone tried this?)

Now, my definition of "line" may not be the same as what others use. Some may define a "line" or "bloodline" as a selective breeding process by a particular breeder to make a morph look a certain way, even if all snakes of that particular morph are originally from the same animal. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Excalibur line of Lavender Albinos fits this description.) In that case, there do seem to be different "lines" of Lessers where someone has bred for higher-contrast or more brown Lessers, like what the OP described.
Click to expand...

:iagree:
 
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