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Let's Discuss: Field Herping!

S

snakegetters

Aunty Venom
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It's about that time of year again. The snakes are slithering and if we're lucky we'll get to see some in the wild. What venomous snakes have you been encountering in the field lately?

Secondary topic: What is your opinion on collecting venomous snakes from the wild to keep or sell as captives?
 
The only venomous snakes I see are copperheads crossing the roads. I stop and encourage any to get off the road, that is if there are no cars coming. So far that's the only venomous snake I've ever seen in the wild. Of course I only started looking for snakes last fall so it's all new to me.

As for keeping and/or selling WC venomous snakes, in Missouri it's illegal to sell native species, so that is moot here. You have to have a permit to own native venomous snakes and I don't, so that's also a moot issue for me. I would love to keep one of the copperheads I see but I'm not careful enough to own one. I'd get bit for sure. I know they're not THAT venomous but I know my experience is not good enough to keep one.

I would rather see these animals in a safe environment than with their heads lopped off. If you're a responsible person and know how to keep them, I don't see any reason why you shouldn't be able to keep them.
 
Let's elaborate on the Mo. law of venomous...

in order to have native species of hots you need the Class 11 permit . You also need to register your hot keeps with your county law enforcement in which has brought up some serious controversy in the way of emergency agencies might handle a situation at your residence. I have told my friend that has those monster crotalids and other foreign species he had better make a sign where the " hot room " is so the agencies can be safe and or treat the situation if it comes up to where he would not be denied as some of us have heard would happen either by jokes or straight out fear ! Here in Kansas we are still awaiting to see if the state goes through with the ban of venomous. I have been told that it was dropped after finally becoming a bill and going before the senate or house but cannot be found if this indeed happened. Several species of our venomous are on a " sinc " list. Even if a den area or habitat > ( I still say this is the most threatening scenario ) < goes under we cannot touch the species. I still collect a few crotalids and yes , if they should drop babies or i accidental breed them I will sell them. But I fear these days will be over soon as I read about all the bites of captive hots and as i have said before, it seems more bites by the " savvy " or veterans are happening more and more these days. I also know that there is an interest of insurance companies denying health, life and home owners policies on your keeping venomous and these insurance companies are some of the major ones. I would like to know the situation of the person that started this thread on her insurance capacity of the above. If I understand it correctly, I thought that I had read that in her facility there was a bite situation not to long ago ? If there wasn't, sorry for the misunderstanding.



Karen Hulvey said:
The only venomous snakes I see are copperheads crossing the roads. I stop and encourage any to get off the road, that is if there are no cars coming. So far that's the only venomous snake I've ever seen in the wild. Of course I only started looking for snakes last fall so it's all new to me.

As for keeping and/or selling WC venomous snakes, in Missouri it's illegal to sell native species, so that is moot here. You have to have a permit to own native venomous snakes and I don't, so that's also a moot issue for me. I would love to keep one of the copperheads I see but I'm not careful enough to own one. I'd get bit for sure. I know they're not THAT venomous but I know my experience is not good enough to keep one.

I would rather see these animals in a safe environment than with their heads lopped off. If you're a responsible person and know how to keep them, I don't see any reason why you shouldn't be able to keep them.
Click to expand...
 
When I had a facility in Florida, I did carry an insurance bond. That was a required condition of having a license to exhibit. It is a reasonable requirement if you are exhibiting.
 
I often encounter Crotalus viridis where I live.
Keeping or removing any snake from its natural native habitat is not a good idea. It has a effect on the ecological niche that it lives in (be it a large area or a small one) it upsets the environmental balance, perhaps only in a very small way (.99%) but it does disrupt the natural balance of the native area.
 
Okay...but what is your view of the situation

of the scenario that I posted about the entire habitat destruction of the den site ? By either a new bridge or a bridge expansion, a new or added housing development, a strip mall, etc. All of these I have encountered in my state. All have been in denning areas of the timber rattlesnake ( crotalus horridus ) and some of the prairie rattlesnake ( viridis ). Remember that our timbers are on a sinc list and we can't do a thing about them with the den site going under and or filled in with concrete. I mean your " ecological and natural balance " is probably far more critical by wiping out the entire den site by this than collecting a few , ( if one or it doesn't get out of hand ). Not to mention many other species of wildlife including the feed prey of the den site occupants............



Rattlesnake said:
I often encounter Crotalus viridis where I live.
Keeping or removing any snake from its natural native habitat is not a good idea. It has a effect on the ecological niche that it lives in (be it a large area or a small one) it upsets the environmental balance, perhaps only in a very small way (.99%) but it does disrupt the natural balance of the native area.
Click to expand...
 
Or how about some idiot buying a piece of land and building a house 100 feet from a timber den. This has happened recently. I talked to a builder who also happens to like snakes. He said while they were digging the foundation a ton of rattlesnakes were showing up and then he found what he believes to be the den. The homeowner is freaking out and, of course, wants all these snakes dead because they have small children.

Why oh why can't we humans, who are supposed to be the smartest animal, think about these things when we are looking to build. This place is in the middle of a large piece of wooded property with a lot of rock outcroppings. They could have built anywhere but chose that spot. DUH did they even look around and check out the habitat? Probably not. Or if they did they were apparently too stupid to think, "Hey this is great timber rattlesnake habitat. Maybe I shouldn't build here because I'm afraid of snakes."

I don't know this for fact but I bet that den is no more. I haven't talked to the builder for a few weeks now. When I see him again, I will ask him about it.

I wish these places could be protected but I know it's not possible to protect everything.
 
russ does the herping. i do not think a girl whos blind in one eye and cant see out the other needs to be out there. the only venomous we have seen around here lately was a DOR baby western rattler. i usually look for road kill because if it is fresh enough i like to open it up get my magnifyer and look at the internal sand the workings on the body (hey maybe im weird)... most of the DOR's we get are texas rats. however last night a friend of mine went herping and found TONS of broadbanded copperheads. she said she saw some very bright and vivid specimens. russ generally goes herpping in our back lot or at the ranch across the street
 
Hey Karen:
Did you ever find out if that den was destroyed? I would be interested in knowing this.
Thx
 
The guy I was talking to about it hasn't been back in the store. I hope he does come back in and when he does, I hope I recognize him. I talk to tons of people every day and sometimes it's hard to remember faces. I bet it was destroyed because he said the wife was raising he11 about it.
 
It irritates me when people move out into the country-side that don't have the common sense about where to live; and end up destroying the environment around them.
 
Hmm...all thats good..but back to Tanith's topic...

:>off_to<:

To get back on the thread topic, I've not been able to get out into the field as much as I usually like to, but I have seen a few adorable little hots so far this year. Primarily I have seen C. atrox, A.c.laticinctus, A.c.pictigaster, one amazing baby C. horridus, and several very nice C.m.molossus. I hope to tap into some good S.m.streckeri spots this weekend, and as usual, will get out at least a couple more times to hopefully spot some leps. Chances are the year will be dominated with atrox, broadbandeds, and viridis, but hey, is there any way to beat a day that you find a buzztail?

As far as the field collecting for the purpose of sale, I have mixed emotions. In my younger days I was foolish enough to sell the occasional broadbanded or atrox (as allowed by law and my permits, of course), but I have reached a point where I can no longer do so with a clear conscience. I do occasionally collect for my personal collection, but I do so strictly within the confines of our local game laws here in Texas, and am quite selective about what I keep, and what I photograph and release. As for breeding them to sell offspring, I don't see a problem with that per se, however, I have noticed I am becoming more and more reluctant to desire producing any offspring, given the surplus of reptiles already available, and my own inability to insure any offspring I might sell will receive the best possible husbandry conditions.

Breeding WC specimens, however, is not strictly done with the hopes of selling the offspring. Many times when I have offspring I simply trade with other friends for offspring they have produced. Primarily this is done for locality-specific aspects of my collection, and as a way for my fellow herpers and myself to add to our respective collections without removing more animals from the field. Obviously I am ok with that aspect of breeding WC specimens for that purpose...not to mention, having baby reptiles produced in your own facility is just fun.

Thats my $.02, take it for what you will.

Happy Herpin'
 
I mean your " ecological and natural balance " is probably far more critical by wiping out the entire den site by this than collecting a few , ( if one or it doesn't get out of hand ). Not to mention many other species of wildlife including the feed prey of the den site

Ecological and natural balance is upset by even removing a single individual or destroying the entire den site. Have you ever taken an ecology course?
 
If you all have been following the news.......

and even though it's my home state, it has made news across the nation. Lenexa Kansas : rattlers ( timbers ) are being sited all over a place of homes and housing divisions. I KNOW of that EXACT place that was cemented and developed over with the timber dens thought to have been cemented and or leveled out/destroyed ! NOT ! But it has taken some years for the old den occupants to move back in if they are in fact trying to find the original den sites. This area was RAW country with MULTIPLE den sites back about 15-20 years ago and was particularly depressing to me when I saw the habitat and destructing going on to build this condo/housing community. I said then that all the snakes would NOT be unclosed or destroyed with the leaving of rocky areas and some trees for the natural looking aesthetics for home/condo buyers. I say GOOD that these snakes are causing problems for the residents BUT BAD for the snakes as to probably being killed upon seeing them by whom ever. Mind you that several of us tried to block the building of this place or a chance to remove what we could ( it could of been wild life agency as well ) find but was not allowed to even with a delay on the builders of building. Also keep in mind that the timber rattlesnake is on the SINC list of Kansas and was at this time as well.
 
Wow that...

suprised me to hear that one Mike.I always heard that Kansas F&G were very protective of our Timbers and their den sites.My Sister lives in Iola and she told me that F&G recently had to move a den due to its very close proximity to a public soccer field.I always hate to se habitat destruction let alone a protected species!....Oh well their just snakes:( I know that they are protected here and we need a permit to keep them.F&G told me to photograph all I like but DONT TOUCH.They were very helpful and friendly but they seemed to have a genuine care for that species(maybe one officers view?) Anyway hope all is well in E- town and A hardy hello to MSTT.I havent seen you around many forums lately.I hope all is well with you and your slithery loved ones.

Happy herping and be safe

Trey Small
 
Breeding purposes..

I don't have a problem with someone that collects a few select from the wild to breed and sell the offspring. This year I have seen quite a few atrox, scuts, mollosus, pictagaster, and corals.
 
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