Lets talk about Pinworms

[Lemur_6]

Hey all,

So my new gecko has pinworms (Oxyurids) and apparently lotsa them (or so the vet says). They don't seem to be having much affect on him (gaining weight, healthy, active), and they seem easy to get rid of (couple doses of Panacur).

I'm wondering if pinworms can be transmitted via an intermediate host (mealworms, crickets). Klingenberg mentions that they can be transmitted by fecally contaminated food/water. I guess I'm just getting kinda paranoid, since I get all my mealworms and crix from local petstores.

Also, anyone one know any tricks on feeding panacur to a gecko? Anyone try injecting a waxworm with it and feeding it? Or would you recommend me just holding him down and having him gulp the stuff directly from the syringe?

-Dave

 

[KelliH]

Pinworms are really no big deal (IMO), they are extremely common and very easy to erradicate with panacur. Some vets do not even prescribe panacur when pinworms are seen in fecal exams in very small amounts.

Pinworms can be transmitted through fecal matter, so it is very important to keep the animal's cage and all water/feeding bowls very clean at all times.

The best way I have found to administer panacur to a leopard gecko is via a ball tipped syringe, you should be able to get one of these form your vet, or you can order one online.

Let us know if you have any more questions!

 

[Lemur_6]

Hmm... I was wanting to give him the meds without having to stick something into his mouth. I doubt he'll lap the stuff up if I stuck the syringe in his face. He's only about 3 months old, so he's still quite small.

-Dave

 

[Intense Herpetoculture]

I work Uromastyx y injecting Panacur into crickets and feeding the Uromastyx (try to get a Uromastyx to open it's mouth, it is very difficult) the crickets, so I guess you could try it with a wax-worm, but you should have no problem getting a leopard gecko to open it's mouth. While it will cause a limited amout of stress, I've been doing it for years without any adverse effects.

 

[Lemur_6]

I do have a ball tipped needle that I can use, I guess I can try and give it to him straight up, and if he gets fiddly about it, I'll resort to giving him a waxworm eclair.

Would I stick the ball tip down his throat (like a snake) or position it at the corner of his mouth (like a turtle), or do I just drip it onto his tongue? I guess I'll go boil the needle now, last time I used it was last year.

-Dave

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Pinworms

Yes, there are several varieties of pinworms, and there is an 'insect' variety that is transmissable through crickets. However, these pose no health risk to your geckos even though they need to be treated with Panacur. They are very common, and difficult to avoid. The main difference between the 'insect' variety is that they are visible to the naked eye, where the others can only be seen microscopically.

In regard to administering Panacur to your gecko, mine have never protested to the taste at all... if anything, seem to like it! I just give it to them with a standard 1cc syringe by putting a drop on their nose and allowing them to lap up the rest.

 

[Lemur_6]

So I got one dose into him. My vet wants me to give him three doses daily for the next three days. He did lap up a little from the syringe while I was holding him, but stopped after drinking 1/10'th of the dose, so I sorta had to get him to bite at the syringe tip and managed to have him swallow the rest. Was a pain in the butt trying to get him to open his mouth. He's all mad at me now, he's stalking his tank and looking at me with a dirty look and crawling back into his hide everytime he sees me looking at him . Poor guy, hope he doesn't end up hating me.

So I guess my gecko has the reptile variety since I couldn't see anything in his poop. How big are the insect variety (1mm long? 2mm long?)? I guess the thing that worried me was that my vet said there was ALOT of them (the diagnosis said: Oxyurides+++).

-Dave

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

hmmmm...

How big are the insect variety (1mm long? 2mm long?)?

They are approximately the size of a cricket dropping, and look similar to a grain of rice. Oxyurides are usually observed through a microscope in their oocyst or larvae stage, either by fecal floatation or direct smear.

 

[Lemur_6]

Re: hmmmm...

They are approximately the size of a cricket dropping, and look similar to a grain of rice. Oxyurides are usually observed through a microscope in their oocyst or larvae stage, either by fecal floatation or direct smear.

Hmm... haven't seen anything like that in my gecko's poop (I've put some fresh poos in a ziploc bag and squished it to see what was inside out of curiosity). I'm quite interested in learning more about the "insect" variety, since all the literature I've read says pinworms have a direct life cycle, and the insect variant seems to deviate from that.

I've seen a green anole with worms (bought one to scent some pinkie mice for a stubborn cornsnake), and before I froze him to kill off any parasites he might have, he took a couple poops and there were a good number of nematodes in it. They seemed dead, but they had to be about half a cm long. Those weren't pinworms were they? They looked like minature pale white earthworms.

Also, I hear a small number of pinworms are kinda good in a way since it prevents constipation by breaking up the feces. Wierd huh.

-Dave

 

[Herpcam]

Great Info, Thanks!

I agree with everything posted so far about this issue. I've seen the oocysts many, many times and have also gotten rid of them quite easily as Kelli mentions. They are transmitted through Crickets; I'm sure of this, because I have geckos that were negative last year who have turned around and recently tested positive for the pinworms, and have not been in contact with any other animals. I'm very anal about cleaning and cross-contamination. I have been astonished at finding them in some cases, because as was already mentioned, the geckos had no symptoms whatsoever. They all seem to be healthy, with normal looking feces and are putting on or maintaining weight.

The only question I have is what is being described as visible, tiny rice-looking things being pinworms. In my experience, the only things that look like that visible to the naked eye are cricket eggs. From what I (thought I) have read, most of the time you would never see the actual worms until you start to treat the animals and they start clearing out of their bodies. Most fecals turn up the eggs or oocysts. I have never, and I don't think my wife has ever seen an actual worm, even during treatment. I'll have to try more diligently from now on to find one, though.

Can someone take pictures of the visible worms, so I know what to look for. If I can find one in my microscope, I'll definitely post a picture. For now, I'm attaching a picture of an oxyurid/pinworm egg I took last year.

Thanks for the good reading, guys.

 

[Intense Herpetoculture]

Are you sure the visable worms are not phorid fly larva?

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

They were definately pinworms...

I didn't get any photos, but I had my vet look at the 'tiny little grains of rice' because they were moving! LOL! That's when he explained how many varieties of pinworms there are... wow.

 

[Intense Herpetoculture]

I've had a couple vets in the past confuse phorid fly larva with pinworms as well. Do you have any problems with phorid flies at all?

 

[Lemur_6]

Hey, just another question. Does panacur have any sort of laxative type effect? My gecko took the most humongous poop (about 3 times the size of a normal poop), and he's pooped every night since I gave him meds (compared to every other night).

He seems more adventuresome now too, he wanders around more and goes into his humid hide and sits on his piece of slate as early as 4 PM. He also seems to be eating more.

-Dave

 

[robin d.]

it may have a laxative effect, because it is ridding the body of the worms....
iremember when i was a kid and we had horses, we wormed our horses a couple times a year with strongid and iverectin and once a year they got a tube worming... and the poops they would take were HUGE and smelly and if they had worms, you could generally see them dead but very clearly in the fecal matter
you might be able to see some of the pins in his new poop

 

[Intense Herpetoculture]

See Robin, but with panacur, all it does is "sterlize" the worms, making them unable to reproduce. also, you need to repeat treatment once every week for like three weeks to become effective. It does not kill them. Otherwise, once eggs hatch out, well, they can still reproduce, and it made your efforts worthless. Eggs take 7-10 days to hatch, so three treatments shoudl take care of the problem. Not sure why your vet wants you to do the treatments one day after another for three days, doesn't make any sense. As panacur not not sterlize eggs and once they hatch out, well, they can reproduce. Hope, I didn't confuse myself.

 

[robin d.]

ok i have never seen a gecko worm (only under microscope) so i dont know LOL..
and ivermec and strongid may have sterilized those worms in the horses for all i know but one thing i do know... when they deficated you could see them.. have you ever seen a tape worm from a horse???
worms in horses are very common thats why ya got to worm them couple times a year... but the things are huge, very gross creatures LOL
ya know come to think of it my dad would worm the horses and worm them again in a couple of weeks.....
regardless IF there are any adults or whatever in there they might be shat out eventually.
i had a friend once, she got worms (this was when we were in elementary school) from playing in the dirt and sand and running around barefooted LOL she said they made her hiney itch haha
anyone here ever done a fecal float or smear on ummm themselves???
ill be the first to say i have not

 

[Intense Herpetoculture]

Well, ivermec and strongid do kill the worms and thats why they can be so easy to overdose with. Panacur is very difficult to overdose with, and I don't know of any reports of over dosing in reptiles.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Justyn...

I've had a couple vets in the past confuse phorid fly larva with pinworms as well. Do you have any problems with phorid flies at all?

Actually, we don't have any problems with any type of fly, but that doesn't mean the cricket grower doesn't... and I suppose that it is entirely possible that my vet was confused, but I seriously doubt it.

Dr. Kenneth Harkewicz, VMD (not DVM) is in private practice as Chief Exotics Veterinarian and Surgeon for the Berkeley Veterinary Specialties Clinic, the staff Veterinarian for the East Bay Vivarium, consultant for the VIN (Veterinarian Information Network), Chairperson for the ARAV, consulting Herp Vet for the Northern California Reptile & Amphibian Society, and has his own consulting firm along with Dr. Frederic L. Frye.

With all of that, and the amount of money he charges, he'd better know the difference between a pinworm and a fly larvae! LOL!!!

 

[Intense Herpetoculture]

I guess the easiest way to tell what it is is by the way it moves. The phorid flies come in on the crickets, and fly hatch within a day, eggs are usally laid in the geckos feces. The worms resemble small maggets, and at this size they are clear. They move like 'inch worms", while nematodes have more sporadtic movement. Also, where these guys sort of "chubby"? Phorid fly larva are sort of "chubby' while most nematodes are pretty lengthy. also, the coloration of the nematodes is often white, while the fly larva are clear. You wuld have to have one hell of a nematode infestation to see them in the gecko feces, and I just can't see that happening with you, it sounds like you take good care of your animals. I wish I could get a pic, but my camera does not focus that small, oh well, maybe I'll find a pic online sometime.