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Bad Guy LLL reptiles Escondido CA.

boastonila

boastonila

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I dont know why i even looked at their table at the Pasadena show this year, i was looking for a pair of jackson chameleons to add to my Panthers and veiled Breeding projects, i take a pair home from LLL only to watch my male wither away in less than a week. I emailed the store and wanted an explanation about selling unhealthy reptiles just to get a breif husbandry slap:shrug01: and that i should persue easier reptiles to care for in the future. The female is thriving and im looking for a healthy male for her at present.
 
Technically without posting your name the thread should be removed (and I also can't look up your specific situation). But regardless - we are MORE than happy to take care of someone with an issue that is not directly their fault (i.e. - the Jacksons are not in glass tanks, improper heat, light, etc). I have no idea of your specific situation yet, but I can promise you that nobody blew you off.. There must have been more of a reason that is not stated here. If you felt like you didn't get a good explanation, or would like to re-visit the issue again, I personally am happy to go over it again with you. If the husbandry is correct after you and I talk, I will personally take care of replacing the animal for you or giving you a store credit. Chameleons are difficult. One of the most difficult reptiles there are. And husbandry is KEY. So for the sake of the female you still have, contact me and let's figure it out to be sure. You can email me directly at [email protected]. We will always stand behind our animals as long as everything is good on your end. Thanks for your time.

Scott Wesley
LLLReptile & Supply
[email protected] (my email address)
Happy Holidays to the BOI
 
Take Scott up on his offer and I am sure you will be taken care of. While I've never ordered animals from LLL, they are my go-to source for supplies, and I have never received anything short of exemplary service when I have had to contact them.
 
Scott's always been a stand up guy with me. I do supply business with him frequently for my shop and any issue that I have had and reported to Scott has been dealt with promptly, professionally and to my total satisfaction. He has always been right on the money discussing husbandry, I'd definately call him and discuss it with him in person. He's very pleasant and a pleasure to deal with.

Angie Martin
Dragon Bytes, Incorporated
 
Hugo,

Thanks for emailing me back. A few things we are dealing with here before we get into details. First - the show was obviously over 6 weeks ago. I will do what I can, but understand it has been a while since the purchase. 2nd - you hand picked the male Jacksons out in person - something I didn't realize when I posted the response on the BOI. My fault, as I didn't read it well enough to see that you bought it at the show. You were able to inspect it, and be satisfied with him. As you said yourself, you are very experienced with chameleons. So - you have to realize that some of the responsibility does absolutely fall on you. It would be very different had the animal been shipped to you sight unseen. But at trade shows, when an animal leaves our hands, you can only imagine how some people set them up after the show. Especially chameleons. So we have a very strict guarantee when stuff is hand picked out at a trade show.

Having said all of that - can you forward me the email that you received from the girl at our warehouse so I can look over your email to her, and her response? At what point in time did you notify us that there was a problem (I imagine it was a while after the show).

The only thing that bothered me about your post was that you said you emailed asking why we sell unhealthy animals. The problem with that statement is it makes no sense. You can look at the Jacksons just as well as we can if you have been breeding for all those years. You see the same things we do. There is no magical trick to see internally into a chameleon to see what may be going on without doing a fecal on every single animal. Slight dehydration can be an easy fix. But Jacksons can go downhill quickly, as you saw, and are much more of a risk than Veileds or Panthers. They are tougher to breed, and tougher to care for. They are a risky purchase regardless of how they look. Much, much more so than a Panther or Veiled of the same size.

So, knowing all of this, let me know what you think would be an honest and fair solution, and we can go from there. Again, replacing it outright when it is hand picked most likely is not an option. You have seen us at plenty of shows through the years, and know that we are stand up people. Again, thanks for emailing back, and hopefully we can rectify the situation.

Cordially,
Scott Wesley
Vista Pet Supply / LLLReptile Wholesale
760-458-5593 - phone
760-520-7575 - fax
 
I asked your sales person id like a pair of jacksons he gave me a pair ,i didnt get to pick anyone of them out Scott, i TRUSTED you had healthy chameleons for sale not dehydrated nor sick. I attend every show in LA,ANAHEIM and SAN DIEGO, I emeailed you guys one week after the show if you dont beleive thats fine. I would just like to recieve a healthy male jackson chameleon like i tried to at the show that is all im asking.
 
I really hate to ask this...and please, please don't take offense. I mean no harm.

What is your husbandry like? Chameleons are, hands down, one of the most difficult, if not THE most difficult, reptile to care for properly. I'm sure you are aware of this. These animals are so sensitive to everything.

That being said, it's not clear when you first contacted LLLReptile about the problem. Here is an exerpt from their TOS on their website. I'm not sure if this is the same TOS they use when they sell animals at shows, but I would imagine it to be.

"LLLReptile & Supply guarantees our animals to be alive, healthy, and to your satisfaction upon arrival, and for 3 days after arrival (amphibians are a live arrival only guarantee). Notification of dissatisfaction must be made within 24 hours if you notice any problem upon arrival. If you have any questions or concerns, we expect you to call us first (we are open 7 days a week). We do not guarantee animals that are not signed for on the first delivery attempt. You must be there and sign for your animal delivery."

When you FIRST noticed the problem, did you contact and get in touch with LLLReptile? They have phone numbers also, and they answer 7 days a week. Regardless, it sounds like Scott is willing to work with you...as long as you're respectful and professional about the situation. ;)

I don't think this really deserved a "Bad Guy" title.
 
You DID say he "withered away in a week" so why did you wait until the animal died?
 
Funny how they dont hand you a guarantee in writing at shows or have a written document posted up, i didnt know there was a website with all their guidelines i went to the show looking for a healthy pair of chameleons ,healthy forsale not maybe our animals are ill heck we dont know give it a try see how long they survive good bye. I keep and have kept every snake and lizard that is legally obtainable in the U.S., working in pet stores and breeding my self in my backyard i have been very happy caring for herps since 1987. I am pretty sure i know what i am doing with chameleons among other reptiles.
 
I tend to agree with Scott on this one, you had the chance to look at the animals before you purchased them, and apparently they looked good enough to your expert eye that you were comfortable with the transaction. A week is plenty of time to kill a Jackson's, I don't think LLL has any liability to you. That being said, I bet they will make some sort of concession to you if you contact them and speak politely, as I said before their service has always been the absolute best in my experience.
 
LLL Reptiles is a 5 star operation. I go to them for all my supplies, recomend them on my website, and have purchased live and sold them stock, and have never had a problem. Considering the number of tranactions they do at shows and their stores (I have been there and they are great), the number of complaints are inconsequential. The customer service is first rate. If you are following all this, have no fear and do not hesitate to buy from them.
 
I do believe Hugo & I have figured out a fair solution. Thanks guys, and again, Happy Holidays to everyone here.

Don't forget to check out NoSnakeBan.com. Act now to protect our reptile community!

Scott Wesley
LLLReptile & Supply
 
boastonila said:
Funny how they dont hand you a guarantee in writing at shows or have a written document posted up, i didnt know there was a website with all their guidelines i went to the show looking for a healthy pair of chameleons ,healthy forsale not maybe our animals are ill heck we dont know give it a try see how long they survive good bye. I keep and have kept every snake and lizard that is legally obtainable in the U.S., working in pet stores and breeding my self in my backyard i have been very happy caring for herps since 1987. I am pretty sure i know what i am doing with chameleons among other reptiles.
Click to expand...

That's a pretty bold statement.

You might be the only person to have done this.

Either that or you are a liar.



I vote #2
 
LLLReptile said:
I do believe Hugo & I have figured out a fair solution. Thanks guys, and again, Happy Holidays to everyone here.

Don't forget to check out NoSnakeBan.com. Act now to protect our reptile community!

Scott Wesley
LLLReptile & Supply
Click to expand...

Sounds to me like you are being nicer than you need to be about the situation in order to please a customer. It's nice to know that I order my supplies from someone who knows what good customer service is. :thumbsup:
 
boastonila said:
Funny how they dont hand you a guarantee in writing at shows or have a written document posted up, i didnt know there was a website with all their guidelines i went to the show looking for a healthy pair of chameleons ,healthy forsale not maybe our animals are ill heck we dont know give it a try see how long they survive good bye. I keep and have kept every snake and lizard that is legally obtainable in the U.S., working in pet stores and breeding my self in my backyard i have been very happy caring for herps since 1987. I am pretty sure i know what i am doing with chameleons among other reptiles.
Click to expand...


Simply owning animals for the past X number of years doesn’t necessarily make you an expert or even knowledgeable on the subject. Last time I checked you don’t have to have a Zoology degree or Zoological experience to own any of these animals, just some cash. Yes you could have owned animals for all this time but by the same token they could have all died on you due to lack of knowledge. Just because you’ve owned other types of Chams and you’ve done well with them that doesn’t make you an expert with all Chams. I’m sorry buddy but that’s a highly fallacious way of thinking.

If you watched it wither away over the course of the week and you have so much expertise wouldn’t that expertise have told you at the very least that it was time for a vet visit if not perhaps being able to determine the cause of the problem yourself and perhaps rectifying the situation and preventing the death of the animal since you have all this experience and all right? Why wasn’t LLL notified prior to the animals death again since you saw the animals condition deteriorate?

Sorry but you brought this here so quit trying to avoid the simple and very important question of how you handled the husbandry for these animals

Arguing that the other animal is doing well really doesn’t prove anything. Because technically it’s doing well for the time being. Anyone whose supposedly kept animals for as long as you claim to have is surely aware that every individual animal is a little different even within members of the same species so it very well could be that the male was simply not as able to take the stress of being kept improperly but the female might be more resilient to such circumstances.

Ultimately I don’t think a bad guy thread is really warranted given the amount of time that has passed since you obtained the animals and the sensitive nature of the animals in question not to mention that calling someone a bad guy and stating that they provided you with sick animals usually needs to be followed by some sort of supporting evidence that something was wrong with the animals begin with but there’s no vet report, no pictures, and you did have a chance to inspect these animals in person (again here’s where your supposed expertise would have come into play) not to mention that you have tried to wiggle your way out of explaining your husbandry techniques when it comes to these animals with this whole “how dare you question my expertise” load of manure post, which is crucial to this whole situation.:NoNo:

Given the fact that LLL is willing to work something out for you with this sketchy at best situation is a clear sign that the Bad Guy title isn't deserved.
 
I agree. You're going to have to do better than that if you're going to come on the BOI and slam a pretty well respected business in the herp community.

This story sounds very fishy and this guy sounds very young and inexperienced.
 
I myself have purchased 5 animals from LLL in the last year and a half, and all of them but one was very healthy and is still doing very well. The one that didn't do well however, was replaced as I talked to them right away about the possible problems. I'll also say that the customer service in this process was great. One of their employees by the name of Nate Evans and their manager of the Oceanside store really went above and beyond to help me out on more then one occasion.
 
To BoastoNila;

I know you were probably making a generalization but to quote:"I keep and have kept every snake and lizard that is legally obtainable in the U.S.,"


If that is true I am paying a finders fee of $500 to anyone that puts me in contact with anyone that can sell me Pytas carinata-not elaphe carinata or pytas korros but Pytas carinata.

As far as I know there is only one individual animal in the U.S. that is alive and I know who owns it.

thanks
ben
 
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