Bad Guy Lloyd Heilbrunn

[Skiploder]

Well heck, it's hard to take the word of a guy who posts his claim without any proof, refuses to share documentation that would back his claim and then scoots off into the nether regions of the net farting merrily into the night.

However, if it was me who was on the receiving end of a hit and run attack, I'd be on here either stating that the guy was full crap or explaining whatever circumstances there may be.

One thing I would NOT do - is let someone post my side of the account for me. Chris - I have no idea who you are and I got nothing against you - but you are not helping your buddy Lloyd out.

See, when you come on here and start tossing out things like "Ben Siegel packed these animals" or "everything this guy says is not truthful" it makes it look like Lloyd is having you tell his side of things.

Which makes the rest of us wonder - why is he not on here defending himself?

Now if you are doing this of your own accord, my sincere recommendation to you is to stop. Again, you are not helping your friend out. You may think you are but you are not.

 

[Lucille]

Now if you are doing this of your own accord, my sincere recommendation to you is to stop. Again, you are not helping your friend out. You may think you are but you are not.

I agree.

See, when you come on here and start tossing out things like "Ben Siegel packed these animals" or "everything this guy says is not truthful" it makes it look like Lloyd is having you tell his side of things.

Lloyd would not have said this through someone else:

Not sure but this may be slander on your part and you may suffer legal actions.

I think when friends come on here, their heart is in the right place, but sometimes it might be better to wait for the parties themselves to speak.

 

[CJReptiles]

Lloyd was not aware of this thread until now. I am speaking about this not because he has asked me to. But because anyone's reputation can be slandered here. The guy has not shown any proof of his claims which ticks me off even more. To throw accusations up and disappear is a cowardly thing to do in my opinion.

 

[CJReptiles]

I am not telling Lloyds side of the story, I am stating facts that I have personal knowledge of.

 

[CJReptiles]

Killing the messengers....
I've been hearing this far too often lately, and from many quarters. That people are afraid to post on the BOI because they get attacked viciously for their statements made there. That they wind up virtually fighting for their own reputation because of attacks made on their own character because of their statements made either for or against someone on the BOI.

Personally, I think this is a serious issue that I need to address. If people are afraid to post on the BOI, then what will be the eventual result of non participation because of the grinder people are put through there?

 

[ReptileGeek181]

Killing the messengers....
I've been hearing this far too often lately, and from many quarters. That people are afraid to post on the BOI because they get attacked viciously for their statements made there. That they wind up virtually fighting for their own reputation because of attacks made on their own character because of their statements made either for or against someone on the BOI.

Personally, I think this is a serious issue that I need to address. If people are afraid to post on the BOI, then what will be the eventual result of non participation because of the grinder people are put through there?

I agree.

 

[Lucille]

I think when friends come on here, their heart is in the right place

attacked viciously

I can see I was pretty hard on you

Christopher, neither of the two parties are present in the thread right now, it would be good if one or the other showed up. I'm sure Lloyd appreciates your efforts.

 

[Fangthane]

Killing the messengers....
I've been hearing this far too often lately, and from many quarters. That people are afraid to post on the BOI because they get attacked viciously for their statements made there. That they wind up virtually fighting for their own reputation because of attacks made on their own character because of their statements made either for or against someone on the BOI.

Personally, I think this is a serious issue that I need to address. If people are afraid to post on the BOI, then what will be the eventual result of non participation because of the grinder people are put through there?

If you truly believe that this quote is applicable to how you've been treated so far, you really might want to avoid this particular part of the website. The 'kid gloves' with which you've been handled thus far, are still firmly in place.

The point that some have tried to get across to you is that it would be easy to perceive this situation in a way that would paint you as a "mouth piece" for someone who is still conspicuous, by his absence from this thread. Whether you're simply acting with the purest intentions, until he shows up to defend himself, those actions could be seen as reflecting poorly on both of you

 

[jwarren1]

If one of you internet jockeys who is butt hurt that I was disatisfied with my deal has time to post pictures email me at [email protected] and I will forward you the pictures of the damage if you will post them here, other than that I don't appreciate attacks on my character from folks who have no knowledge whatsoever about my dealings and I would draw your attention to the posting at the top of this forum prohibiting such attacks! goodnight

 

[DaveyFig]

I wasn't butt hurt, and defended your stance of not posting before Lloyd shows up, but I would be happy to post them for you. Feel free to email me at [email protected].

 

[Chris Kindred]

I've been contact with Lloyd over the last couple weeks about a pituophis he has. I emailed him about this thread tonight... We'll see if he responds.

 

[Chris Kindred]

pm sent... so I don't get banned or anything. lol

 

[Lucille]

If one of you internet jockeys who is butt hurt that I was disatisfied with my deal has time to post pictures email me at [email protected] and I will forward you the pictures of the damage if you will post them here, other than that I don't appreciate attacks on my character from folks who have no knowledge whatsoever about my dealings and I would draw your attention to the posting at the top of this forum prohibiting such attacks! goodnight

Excuse me? You come here, make a serious allegation against a seller, and leave. And then you come back here whining about attacks when all that was requested is more info? And then you have the big brass ones to ask US to help you post your proof after you criticize those who posted?

Given your snarky attitude, and given:

From the BOI Rules
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8880

Proof is optional, but recommended if you would like to remove any doubts about the truth of what you are posting. But this is purely up to you, just as the believability of what you post is purely up to the reader of your words.

Your believability quotient with me is at zero until you ditch the snark and post some proof.

 

[MiIguanaLvr]

I read a lot of BOI but do not post here very often. I will say though, that this OP seems to have come here with a huge chip on his shoulder. As if he maybe thought no one would believe him.
All I can say is that if I were going to come here and throw out some serious accusations I would be very prepared to back up my claims. I would have the emails and photos ready to go before the first post was made.
Experience alone has taught me that it would be asked for and, after all, its only fair since you are accusing someone of ripping you off.
I do not think anyone here has treated the OP badly and if he thinks that is the case maybe he should look over some of the other BOI threads and see how it can work with a poster who is uncooperative.
I just think that it is ridiculous to expect to come here, toss out a 4 or 5 sentence statement and expect everyone here to automatically believe you. When you are questioned you get huffy.
If the roles were reversed you would sure want us to ask for proof.

 

[AbsoluteApril]

Personally, I think this is a serious issue that I need to address. If people are afraid to post on the BOI, then what will be the eventual result of non participation because of the grinder people are put through there?

if anyone wishes to further discuss this part, please utilize the feedback forum, this is one of the threads about this subject:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236965

thank you

 

[Lloyd Heilbrunn]

Ok, let me respond to this thread.

In short, Jeremy was unhappy with the female of the pair, due to some healing scabs and a missing tail tip, not what I would call open sores. She had a bad shed right before shipping and I noticed what was apparently some stuck skin, but did not realize it was more than that. Shipping was 6/25 and nothing was mentioned about mites by Jeremy, until after we reached a resolution about 3 weeks post receipt, which he accepted, nor were mites found by his vet. Both Jeremy and vet indicated no active infection, and no antibiotic nor even topical was prescribed. Another purported problem concerning ribs was not confirmed by the vet.

Never represented she was “flawless”, and I disclosed the pair were failed breeders and she needed to get some weight back after laying infertile eggs, and the price was adjusted.

Original deal was $2600 shipped, and he would send me pair of hatchlings IF he managed to breed them, and I would then send him a baby BT cribo.

I told him because he was unhappy, I would send him a PAIR of BTs whether or NOT, he bred the Texans. He accepted, and 3 days later I heard about mites for the first time.

I am sorry he was not happy, but I think the agreed resolution was more than fair.

A few of many emails:

In a message dated 7/9/2012 2:25:20 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes:
Lloyd,

You might want to check your collection for snake mites. I found
mites on the female texan. Didn't see any on the rest of my specimens
but I treated the entire collection just to be safe. Mites will cause
em to shed too frequently and would explain the terrible shed she had
gone through.




In a message dated 7/5/2012 10:52:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes:

No problem, sorry you were not happy.

In a message dated 7/5/2012 12:40:26 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes:

That will work. Thanks for working with me.

On 7/2/12, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
> Why don't we do this.
>
> We keep the original deal regarding the Texan hatchlings if you do breed
> successfully because I don't think the scabs will impact breeding, but I
> will send you a BT Cribo pair next year for just shipping cost whether or
> not
> you breed the Texans successfully.
>
>
> In a message dated 7/3/2012 12:27:53 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> [email protected] writes:
>
> No i'm not wanting money back.
>
> Our original deal is going to put me into these snakes close to $4,000
> if I am able to breed her. Thats pretty steep considering the damage
> on her. It was alittle disconcerting to pull her out of the shipping
> bag and be suprised by it. I would be satified with the deal if we
> take it down to one neonate (if/when I breed them), you keep the
> cribo, and no hard feelings
>
> On 7/2/12, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Wait, are you saying you want $2500 back? Or am I misunderstanding you?
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 7/2/2012 2:43:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>> [email protected] writes:
>>
>> Lloyd,
>>
>> Below are some pictures of the integument issues on the female. I
>> have been busy working so it took a few days. I had to send pics
>> individually due to image size. Attached to this email is the vet
>> report. Its pretty difficult to miss the damage, she has these type
>> of sores all along the backbone, the tail tip is missing, and some
>> lumps on the sides that seem to be healed over rib breaks. I feel
>> like I held up my end of the deal going out of my way to make sure
>> payment cleared paypal promptly, being patient on the shipping, and
>> taking the risk of the shipment being non-insured. Pretty
>> disappointed. I would like to send them back but would hate to take
>> the risks associated with shipping again. I feel like the original
>> $2500 I paid without the neonate trade would make it right. Your
>> thoughts?
>>
>>
>>

On 6/25/12, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
> Please let me know how they do!
>
>
>
> ____________________________________
> From: [email protected]
> Reply-to: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: 6/25/2012 3:15:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time
> Subj: FedEx Shipment Notification

 

[Lloyd Heilbrunn]

Redoing my math: 2 weeks post receipt, not 3, was first mention of mites.

 

[DaveyFig]

Thanks for coming here to respond, Lloyd. Jeremy hasn't emailed my the stuff he said he had last night or I would have posted it.

Ok, let me respond to this thread.
In short, Jeremy was unhappy with the female of the pair, due to some healing scabs and a missing tail tip, not what I would call open sores. She had a bad shed right before shipping and I noticed what was apparently some stuck skin, but did not realize it was more than that.

SO she did have healing scabs and a missing tail tip. Could the sores have opened up with the stuck shed coming off?

Never represented she was “flawless”, and I disclosed the pair were failed breeders and she needed to get some weight back after laying infertile eggs, and the price was adjusted.

Did you also disclose the missing tail tip and scabs?

 

[DaveyFig]

Thanks for coming here to respond, Lloyd. Jeremy hasn't emailed my the stuff he said he had last night or I would have posted it.

Ok, let me respond to this thread.
In short, Jeremy was unhappy with the female of the pair, due to some healing scabs and a missing tail tip, not what I would call open sores. She had a bad shed right before shipping and I noticed what was apparently some stuck skin, but did not realize it was more than that.

SO she did have healing scabs and a missing tail tip. Could the sores have opened up with the stuck shed coming off?

Never represented she was “flawless”, and I disclosed the pair were failed breeders and she needed to get some weight back after laying infertile eggs, and the price was adjusted.

Did you also disclose the missing tail tip and scabs?

 

[RossCA]

Here's the pictures Jeremy sent me to post.