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Logan Enterprises - David Van Houten INQUIRY
- Thread starter rpandht
- Start date
reptilemama
Member
I just bought an indian sand boa from David. Great snake, and great packaging and service as well.
Casey Hulse
New member
Thumbs up
I bought a 2002 het albino ball from David a few months ago and I am very happy with her! The only trouble is she is very expensive to feed!! 770gms already! She has gained 500 grams in 4 months. Gotta say great shipping and communications.
I bought a 2002 het albino ball from David a few months ago and I am very happy with her! The only trouble is she is very expensive to feed!! 770gms already! She has gained 500 grams in 4 months. Gotta say great shipping and communications.
Neil Gubitz
TampaSnakePit.com
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2002
- Messages
- 2,375
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 0
- Age
- 74
- Location
- Port Saint Lucie, Florida
I, also, have done biz with Dave.... NO PROBLEMS, and great animals....
....Neil
....Neil
sean brady
New member
DAVID VAN HOUTEN ROCKS!!!!!!!!
I buy imports from him all the time and I have never had a complaint. he has tremendous animals and never!!!! misrepresents them.
Keep up the good work david.
I buy imports from him all the time and I have never had a complaint. he has tremendous animals and never!!!! misrepresents them.
Keep up the good work david.
David promptly replies to any questions you might have on your animals. He is also always willing to work with you either if it's a $100 or $1,000 sale. Very customer oriented.
Regards.
Regards.
Warren_Booth
Warren Booth
David Van Houten
HI,
David Van Houten screwed me out of $1200 for three Trinidad Tree Boas that arrived at my friends house in a terrible condition. All three were extremely dehyrdated. One died a few days later and the decision was made to send the animals back to him for a refund as we could ship these animals to the UK in the same shipping bax as Amazon Basins and Boelens pythons. David refused to collect the snakes and left them to die in a Delta dash terminal in Richmond airport. Mr Van Houten was aware the animals were at the airport and refused to collect them as it was 2 hours away. I even told him to keep $400 of the refund in order to compensate for any inconviences he had in collecting the snakes or for having to pay someone to courier them to him or collect them. Not many people will take a $400 hit on animals that were in appaling condition when they arrived from him. He denied all responcibility for the animals and in the end washed his hands of the deal claiming he had "too much money to worry about a $1200 deal". This is certainly not the way someone should do business and I would urge you to seriously reconsider you deal with him. On a side note, a friend also bought some tree boas from him and over half of the neonates died and many of the others are having to be force fed. If you would like copies of every e-mail he sent me regarding the transaction I am happy to forward these on to you. Because I am the other side of the world he knows that I cannot come knocking on his door...yet...but I will later this year.
I hope you seriously reconsider your deal with him, and remember that there are many other dealers out there that you can buy from.
Regards,
The full stroy can be found on the board of inquiry on Corallus.com and on page three ( i think) of the message board. This is the picture of the dead animal recieved.
HI,
David Van Houten screwed me out of $1200 for three Trinidad Tree Boas that arrived at my friends house in a terrible condition. All three were extremely dehyrdated. One died a few days later and the decision was made to send the animals back to him for a refund as we could ship these animals to the UK in the same shipping bax as Amazon Basins and Boelens pythons. David refused to collect the snakes and left them to die in a Delta dash terminal in Richmond airport. Mr Van Houten was aware the animals were at the airport and refused to collect them as it was 2 hours away. I even told him to keep $400 of the refund in order to compensate for any inconviences he had in collecting the snakes or for having to pay someone to courier them to him or collect them. Not many people will take a $400 hit on animals that were in appaling condition when they arrived from him. He denied all responcibility for the animals and in the end washed his hands of the deal claiming he had "too much money to worry about a $1200 deal". This is certainly not the way someone should do business and I would urge you to seriously reconsider you deal with him. On a side note, a friend also bought some tree boas from him and over half of the neonates died and many of the others are having to be force fed. If you would like copies of every e-mail he sent me regarding the transaction I am happy to forward these on to you. Because I am the other side of the world he knows that I cannot come knocking on his door...yet...but I will later this year.
I hope you seriously reconsider your deal with him, and remember that there are many other dealers out there that you can buy from.
Regards,
The full stroy can be found on the board of inquiry on Corallus.com and on page three ( i think) of the message board. This is the picture of the dead animal recieved.
Warren,
I'm a little confused by the story. Are you in the UK? Were the animals going to be shipped back to the UK for a refund or to the US?
Best regards.
Warren_Booth
Warren Booth
David Van Houten...bad guy
Sorry, I'll clarrify.
I am in the Uk, well, infact I am in Northern Ireland (considered part of the UK although seperaed from the mainland by the Irish Sea. Right, I purchased the snakes off Van Houten and they were shipped from him in Virginia to my friend in Florida who was going to ship them to me along with one of my orders. Anyway, the animals arrived with him in extremely poor condition and he informed me immediately. I was away at a remote fieldwrok station and away from internet access however upon my retunr I e-mail Van Houten and expressed my concerns. He told me it was a load of rubbish and the animals he sent were fine, obvioulsy not however. Anyway, my friend decided to ship them back to him in order for me to get a full refund as they were too ill to ship to the UK. Van Houten refused to collect them from the airport and left them to die. He refuses to accept any liability for the poor quality of the animals and refuses to refund. I was even happy to settle for a $600 refund in order to get this out of my hair but he refused to accept any responcibilty for the animals.
Hope this clears things up.
Regards,
Warren Booth
Queen's University of Belfast
Behavioural Ecology and Evolution Research Group
School of Biology and Biochemistry
Medical Biology Centre
Sorry, I'll clarrify.
I am in the Uk, well, infact I am in Northern Ireland (considered part of the UK although seperaed from the mainland by the Irish Sea. Right, I purchased the snakes off Van Houten and they were shipped from him in Virginia to my friend in Florida who was going to ship them to me along with one of my orders. Anyway, the animals arrived with him in extremely poor condition and he informed me immediately. I was away at a remote fieldwrok station and away from internet access however upon my retunr I e-mail Van Houten and expressed my concerns. He told me it was a load of rubbish and the animals he sent were fine, obvioulsy not however. Anyway, my friend decided to ship them back to him in order for me to get a full refund as they were too ill to ship to the UK. Van Houten refused to collect them from the airport and left them to die. He refuses to accept any liability for the poor quality of the animals and refuses to refund. I was even happy to settle for a $600 refund in order to get this out of my hair but he refused to accept any responcibilty for the animals.
Hope this clears things up.
Regards,
Warren Booth
Queen's University of Belfast
Behavioural Ecology and Evolution Research Group
School of Biology and Biochemistry
Medical Biology Centre
dkpuma
New member
Warren,
You've left out so many important facts it is making my head spin. You've also conviently left out the name of your "friend" in Florida. That would be Don Kesseric. Do a search here and everyone will know all about your friend.
You didn't arrange shipping of the animals back to me. You just shipped them to a random airport without consulting me as to whether or not that is where they should go and you sent them after I told you not to send them to that airport. Your friend illegally shipping them Delta without marking them live snakes, has he heard from Delta yet as I informed them of this? Has he ever heard of the Lacey Act? He will now. I told you to ship the animals to me and we could discuss a refund, very standard in this industry. You have tried to "blackmail" me into giving you a refund on animals I have never received, by saying this could all go away and you would remove all thread you have posted if I did this.
I believe the last email I ever sent you was I would discuss a refund as soon as the animals, or bodies, were shipped to me. You have done nothing to try and do this yet still expect a refund? I wish I could do this only I don't know anyone that is willing to give refunds without the animals is question, if you do let me know and I'll pass their names along to everyone here, they are a cut above the rest.
David Van Houten
You've left out so many important facts it is making my head spin. You've also conviently left out the name of your "friend" in Florida. That would be Don Kesseric. Do a search here and everyone will know all about your friend.
You didn't arrange shipping of the animals back to me. You just shipped them to a random airport without consulting me as to whether or not that is where they should go and you sent them after I told you not to send them to that airport. Your friend illegally shipping them Delta without marking them live snakes, has he heard from Delta yet as I informed them of this? Has he ever heard of the Lacey Act? He will now. I told you to ship the animals to me and we could discuss a refund, very standard in this industry. You have tried to "blackmail" me into giving you a refund on animals I have never received, by saying this could all go away and you would remove all thread you have posted if I did this.
I believe the last email I ever sent you was I would discuss a refund as soon as the animals, or bodies, were shipped to me. You have done nothing to try and do this yet still expect a refund? I wish I could do this only I don't know anyone that is willing to give refunds without the animals is question, if you do let me know and I'll pass their names along to everyone here, they are a cut above the rest.
David Van Houten
dkpuma
New member
Warren,
As far as your threats regarding you coming over here. Please let me know the airline and date you will be arriving on. I want to make sure I can meet you at the airport. That way you can't change the truth when I kick your ****ing ass all the way back across the big pond. Do I sound scared of you now?
David Van Houten
As far as your threats regarding you coming over here. Please let me know the airline and date you will be arriving on. I want to make sure I can meet you at the airport. That way you can't change the truth when I kick your ****ing ass all the way back across the big pond. Do I sound scared of you now?
David Van Houten
Warren_Booth
Warren Booth
David Van Houten...bad guy
No problem, I will have the bodies shipped to you. you can even take the cost of the shipping out of the refund.
Please send me an e-mail as to when it is suitable to have them shipped to you. As you are aware, the animals are now corpses. I will happily have these shipped to you when it is suitable for you to collect them from a suitable location of your choice.
By the way, as you know Don's involvement in these animals was simply to recieve and send to me in my next shipment. Nothing else, no financial benifit, simply an act of favour for a friend. You used him as a scape goat for your poor quality animals, end of story and you know that.
Regards,
No problem, I will have the bodies shipped to you. you can even take the cost of the shipping out of the refund.
Please send me an e-mail as to when it is suitable to have them shipped to you. As you are aware, the animals are now corpses. I will happily have these shipped to you when it is suitable for you to collect them from a suitable location of your choice.
By the way, as you know Don's involvement in these animals was simply to recieve and send to me in my next shipment. Nothing else, no financial benifit, simply an act of favour for a friend. You used him as a scape goat for your poor quality animals, end of story and you know that.
Regards,
sean brady
New member
Warren Booth, be careful…
First off warren I would avoid throwing threats at any one especially David. I don’t know how you conduct business over there in the UK but you need to take a more ethical approach. <p>
As far as any animals received not up to par that is the risk you take by incorporating a third party in the equation. And like David said check “your Friends” previous background info. And as far as calling him a “friend” tell me how many nights have you spent with his family, or the two of you gone out to the bar together? My point is you're on the other side of the world and if you consider him your good friend because you’ve made previous business arrangements well I’m sorry but reality is there are plenty of @$$Holes out there that will prey on people like you till the price is right. <p>If the snakes were dead how do you know it wasn’t your “friend” who switched them? (Just a thought before you criticize David) David is a respectable business man with a terrific family who doesn’t need $1200 so bad that he would jeopardize his reputation or the life of an animal to screw someone like you…<p>
And yes! YOU should have personally consulted David BEFORE any arrangements to ship back were initiated. In case you didn’t know, there has been a tremendous snow storm in his area and he would have better advised you on shipping for lack of ability on his part to even get to the airport. And just the simple fact your Idiot of a friend who would even consider shipping a live animal with out notifying the proper officials so they know to keep it in the acclimated rooms at the airports Proves his credibility is as solid as air.
Anyways, before you do a deal that goes south and start running your mouth with threats saying you’ll be there later in the year to “knock on his door” learn the art of communication and reason and find a new “friend” to deal with if they’re your only outlet to this business. Also, If I were you I wouldn't just throw a threat like that around in the first place some people don't take that to lightly!
Very, Very Truly Yours
SEAN BRADY
Prestigious Designs
Orlando, FL
First off warren I would avoid throwing threats at any one especially David. I don’t know how you conduct business over there in the UK but you need to take a more ethical approach. <p>
As far as any animals received not up to par that is the risk you take by incorporating a third party in the equation. And like David said check “your Friends” previous background info. And as far as calling him a “friend” tell me how many nights have you spent with his family, or the two of you gone out to the bar together? My point is you're on the other side of the world and if you consider him your good friend because you’ve made previous business arrangements well I’m sorry but reality is there are plenty of @$$Holes out there that will prey on people like you till the price is right. <p>If the snakes were dead how do you know it wasn’t your “friend” who switched them? (Just a thought before you criticize David) David is a respectable business man with a terrific family who doesn’t need $1200 so bad that he would jeopardize his reputation or the life of an animal to screw someone like you…<p>
And yes! YOU should have personally consulted David BEFORE any arrangements to ship back were initiated. In case you didn’t know, there has been a tremendous snow storm in his area and he would have better advised you on shipping for lack of ability on his part to even get to the airport. And just the simple fact your Idiot of a friend who would even consider shipping a live animal with out notifying the proper officials so they know to keep it in the acclimated rooms at the airports Proves his credibility is as solid as air.
Anyways, before you do a deal that goes south and start running your mouth with threats saying you’ll be there later in the year to “knock on his door” learn the art of communication and reason and find a new “friend” to deal with if they’re your only outlet to this business. Also, If I were you I wouldn't just throw a threat like that around in the first place some people don't take that to lightly!
Very, Very Truly Yours
SEAN BRADY
Prestigious Designs
Orlando, FL
Warren_Booth
Warren Booth
David Van Houten...bad guy
Haha, where was my threat. I said I would be over and I would like to come and see him. That doesn't make any sort of threat. If I said what David just said then I would class that as a threat.
As far as Don's involvement, firstly, Don was making nothing out of this deal . Me a a friend have a $50,000 order sitting at Don's ready to ship next week. He has no need to switch three Trinidads for three dead Trinidads. Tell me this, where the hell would he get them from, they aren't exactly easy to come by. I have had people looking for adults for me for the last 5 years. Also, the animals were misrepresented by Mr Van Houten. He claimed they were over 4 month captives, they were infact only in captivity 2 months. This might not sound much to you guys but if you are dealing with trinidad Tree Boas which are delicate this is a big deal. I can tell you, if Don had of recieved three healthy animals from Van houten then all would be grand. I am desperate to get this species into my collection, and these were the animals I wanted to found my bloodlines, sadly the quality of these was just too poor to risk flying them here. One was dead and the other two were questionable. I have no desire to risk a $50k shipment over $800 of sick snakes, who would. I know many of you have done great deals with the guy, I am not kncking that, I checked him out before I sent him $1200 of my hard earned cash, but it only takes one bad deal. And in this case I was that one badly treated customer.
The animals were shipped as live animals. In the box was a dead Trinidad (packaged in an air tight box) and 2 live Trinidads. The box was double sealed, firstly the polybox was wrapped in industrial grade plastic wrap, then the outer box was also. 6 long life heat packs were placed in the box, along with a bag of damp tissue paper to keep humidity high. Anybody that has had animals shipped from Don will know the quality and care with which they are packaged. I agree, Don should have called him before he sent them, I was under the influence that he had, and when i found out he hadn't I offered mr Van Houten $400 compensation for any inconvenience in having the animals collected or couriered to him. How many people would do that. Certainly a crook trying to rip somebody off wouldn'tm and I am no crook. I simply wanted what I paid for and this is not what I got. When I bought the snakes i asked him if he could house that animals until I was ready to have them shipped to Florida a few days before we shipped them to the UK, he agreed, but then I get an e-mail after Christmas telling me he was shipping that week. He appeared desperate to ship, now that sounds a bit strange to me. If the animals are healthy then why be in a rush to ship them. I would happily pay towards housing and feeding costs ontop of the price of the animals.
Anyway, I can see it is pointless here as so many people love Van Houten here. I was simply replying to a guys post about Van Houten, well there you go, I replied. Now you can all go and kiss each other and comfort each other after a badly treated customer replied.
Sorry if it upset you all.
Regards,
Haha, where was my threat. I said I would be over and I would like to come and see him. That doesn't make any sort of threat. If I said what David just said then I would class that as a threat.
As far as Don's involvement, firstly, Don was making nothing out of this deal . Me a a friend have a $50,000 order sitting at Don's ready to ship next week. He has no need to switch three Trinidads for three dead Trinidads. Tell me this, where the hell would he get them from, they aren't exactly easy to come by. I have had people looking for adults for me for the last 5 years. Also, the animals were misrepresented by Mr Van Houten. He claimed they were over 4 month captives, they were infact only in captivity 2 months. This might not sound much to you guys but if you are dealing with trinidad Tree Boas which are delicate this is a big deal. I can tell you, if Don had of recieved three healthy animals from Van houten then all would be grand. I am desperate to get this species into my collection, and these were the animals I wanted to found my bloodlines, sadly the quality of these was just too poor to risk flying them here. One was dead and the other two were questionable. I have no desire to risk a $50k shipment over $800 of sick snakes, who would. I know many of you have done great deals with the guy, I am not kncking that, I checked him out before I sent him $1200 of my hard earned cash, but it only takes one bad deal. And in this case I was that one badly treated customer.
The animals were shipped as live animals. In the box was a dead Trinidad (packaged in an air tight box) and 2 live Trinidads. The box was double sealed, firstly the polybox was wrapped in industrial grade plastic wrap, then the outer box was also. 6 long life heat packs were placed in the box, along with a bag of damp tissue paper to keep humidity high. Anybody that has had animals shipped from Don will know the quality and care with which they are packaged. I agree, Don should have called him before he sent them, I was under the influence that he had, and when i found out he hadn't I offered mr Van Houten $400 compensation for any inconvenience in having the animals collected or couriered to him. How many people would do that. Certainly a crook trying to rip somebody off wouldn'tm and I am no crook. I simply wanted what I paid for and this is not what I got. When I bought the snakes i asked him if he could house that animals until I was ready to have them shipped to Florida a few days before we shipped them to the UK, he agreed, but then I get an e-mail after Christmas telling me he was shipping that week. He appeared desperate to ship, now that sounds a bit strange to me. If the animals are healthy then why be in a rush to ship them. I would happily pay towards housing and feeding costs ontop of the price of the animals.
Anyway, I can see it is pointless here as so many people love Van Houten here. I was simply replying to a guys post about Van Houten, well there you go, I replied. Now you can all go and kiss each other and comfort each other after a badly treated customer replied.
Sorry if it upset you all.
Regards,
Casey Hulse
New member
Don was making nothing out of this deal
In my opinion, if your friend Don shipped the animals back to David without even talking to David first, then Don has to take responsibility for this one. I can not believe anyone would ship a package to an airport without KNOWING that someone was going to pick it up. That is very irresponsible and shows no concern for the welfare of the animals. I suggest you find a supplier who shows a little compassion for the animals, Don obviously has none.
dkpuma
New member
Here we go with the revisionist history. I have all the emails you sent me and can post them if necessary. You purchased the animals in October after you sold some bolen's. You asked me to hold them 6 weeks for the paperwork to clear before sending them to Don in Fla. You emailed me asking me to hold them until roughly the middle of January as your shippment should be coming to you then. On December 28 YOU asked me to ship them as soon as possible and arrange it with Don, which I did on January 6 or 7th. I wasn't looking to ship them as soon as possible I held on to the animals well over 2 months after you purchsed them and shipped them when you asked me to! That doesn't sound like someone trying hard to "dump" animals on someone now does it? It is now February 20th and you still haven't gotten your shipment from Don, what is the holdup?
You keep saying the animals where shipped as live animals, why would Delta call me and tell me that they were going to destroy the box that was shipped to Richmond if it was marked live animals? That would be breaking many Federal laws. Oh I know, because it wasn't marked live animals it was marked snakeskins breaking another federal law by falsifying an airway bill, there are very strict laws governing the shipment of live animals on commercial airlines and Mr. "professional" Don Kesserric felt it necessary to break all of them, Delta wouldn't have even accepted the package had they know they were live animals as the weather conditions didn't meet the requirements.
You and your buddy Richard can continue to keep trying to blackmail people out of money, but we American's aren't that dumb, leave that your your European half-wits that fall for that stuff.
David Van Houten
Logan Enterprises
You keep saying the animals where shipped as live animals, why would Delta call me and tell me that they were going to destroy the box that was shipped to Richmond if it was marked live animals? That would be breaking many Federal laws. Oh I know, because it wasn't marked live animals it was marked snakeskins breaking another federal law by falsifying an airway bill, there are very strict laws governing the shipment of live animals on commercial airlines and Mr. "professional" Don Kesserric felt it necessary to break all of them, Delta wouldn't have even accepted the package had they know they were live animals as the weather conditions didn't meet the requirements.
You and your buddy Richard can continue to keep trying to blackmail people out of money, but we American's aren't that dumb, leave that your your European half-wits that fall for that stuff.
David Van Houten
Logan Enterprises
Warren_Booth
Warren Booth
David Van Houten...bad guy
Hi Guys,
I decided a month ago to chalk this one up to a bad experience. Anyway, the reason I posted was because somebody asked about David Van houten. I simply posted about my experiences and hope that atleast some people will take warning. I know several people in the US that certainly will never deal with Logan Enterprises, Thats enough for me. Anyway enjoy your life Van Houten, and please do not slag of Europeans, its not a very nice thing to do. If I were European I would be offended, but Northern Ireland is not part of Europe. Ha Ha.
Regards,
Hi Guys,
I decided a month ago to chalk this one up to a bad experience. Anyway, the reason I posted was because somebody asked about David Van houten. I simply posted about my experiences and hope that atleast some people will take warning. I know several people in the US that certainly will never deal with Logan Enterprises, Thats enough for me. Anyway enjoy your life Van Houten, and please do not slag of Europeans, its not a very nice thing to do. If I were European I would be offended, but Northern Ireland is not part of Europe. Ha Ha.
Regards,
chris bodner
Mike Bodner
We just bought 2 exstremely nice thayeri babies from David.................they were in perfect condition and eating like pigs.......very happy.........david packed snakes very well....thanks, chris bodner
Casey Hulse
New member
Just want to remove my thumbs up from this thread. It took me a few yrs. but now I know David Van Houten is a crook. 