Bad Guy Lou Rodrigues, Designer Ball Pythons also on Kingsnake.com

[crotalusadamanteus]

If you'd gotten the animal on the first delivery attempt, you'd have a leg to stand on if it arrived dead. It doesn't matter if you didn't hear the attempt, it was made and you missed it. No one to blame. But yourself.

How do you come up with that reasoning? We're talking UPS. A company that is notorious for dropping packages off with no honk, no knock, not even coming all the way to your porch to drop things off. I've had them leave packages out by the mail box next to the road. I've had them drop off packages clearly marked "perishable" and clearly marked "leave on porch if not home" and find my quickly thawing rats sitting by the gate in direct sunlight.

I would like to know about this, also for my future reference. Is it UPS's policy that if there is no signature required option checked, that its up to the driver to decide whether or not to leave the box, or are they required to leave the box.

Yes, all major carriers have their little fine print that lets them drop things off at some moronic drivers discretion if no sig is required. FedEx can drop it off even if there IS a sig required, IF your address has a sig release on file. Not YOU, but the ADDRESS. Most people ain't even aware of this. And I've SEEN UPS fake sigs and leave packages at my gate. I just got a driver fired for that. He was caught on my neighbors security camera signing, then I got the notice of delivery on my phone.

paul did you not follow this thread, he missed the first attempt at delivery and as a reault the poor animal had to sit in a heated box on a 85 degree day for an extra 4 hours how can i warrantee that

So UPS does a drive by, or sits out by the road and does a little honk then drives off, and that qualifies as failed first attempt? Maybe in UPS's book, but not in mine, nor anybody else who is expecting the package. Is not some of the responsibility for a completed delivery on the company hired to deliver said package?


Don't get me wrong, I don't side with either one of you. I see holes in both stories. Something ain't being fully told IMO.

 

[eddieriv]

Heres what I am seeing through this thread, including a lack of proof and a lot of excuses...

Lou...
Eddie received a dead snake from you. Regardless of whos fault it is Lou, do you NOT guarantee live arrival? If you DO guarantee live arrival, what is your TOS? You keep mentioning they have to sign on first delivery attempt, however, you dont make it a "signature required" transaction? That, to me, makes no sense.

Sure, you may have all these emails supporting you and a ton of people stating that they will buy from you, but... I dont believe you for the simple fact that you will not or cannot post any of your evidence OTHER than the fact he didnt sign on first attempt.

I used to live in Las Vegas where on Christmas its 85+ degrees by 8AM. There is no excuse for an animal to arrive dead if packed right, even if its received late.

You also offer a replacement snake if he pays you MORE money. What is this? You say its for shipping right? 100.00 to ship a Spider using SYR.com? How much money do you need to milk out of this guy to make things right? You just need to stick to local sales until you actually learn to ship according to weather. The simple fact that you EVEN used a heat pack for a shipment to somewhere where its 85 degrees is a joke in itself. You say its 33 degrees when you shipped out in your hometown but you DO realize that the snake RARELY stays in your area for very long right?

Eddie...
Whether he used 1 or 3 heat packs, you should REALLY be aware of your local UPS or Fedex drivers for your area. Get to know them as well as the local hubs. When I lived in Vegas, I used to get so many shipments that Fedex would hold my packages for me at their location so I could pick them up there or make sure I was in the office for delivery. They even knew me by name and stuck around to see the newest snake I received.

One BIG thing I would suggest is make sure you are dealing with someone who first and foremost, has enough of a reputation to make sure you will get living animals that can survive at least 30 hrs in transit, no matter what the weather is Sometimes, shipping companies will lose animals for a day and you will really want to make sure you are dealing with someone whos NOT going to make you eat the costs, regardless of what their TOS is.

You have some reputable friends, like Chris, that you should hit up for advice prior to making a purchase so they can help steer you into making a better decision as to whom to buy from. Dont always look for the best price or best deal because, unfortunately, this is generally a product of what happens when it comes to dealing with inexperienced dealers. Make sure you always get some sort od TOS in writing too so you dont have to go through this in the future.

I DO have one issue with you though... Were you planning on quarantining this new animal before trying to breed it with your female or were you just going to throw them in with each other and make a go of it? If you were, in fact, planning on a quarantine period, the size of your male shouldnt matter all the much being that he only needs to get to 500ish gr before he can breed.

To sum this all up...

Lou, as a seller, you have TONS more to lose than Eddie does as a buyer in the long run. If there is no good closure at the end of this transaction, you wont just lose 350.00 in sales. I would estimate your losses at least 10 times that amount, at a minimum. Just look at how many people have viewed the thread already Once they see that your animals cant stand travel, how many do you ACTUALLY think will buy from you that cannot pick up from you directly or havent dealt with you in the past?

Regardless if he didnt pick up the animal on first delivery, the fact still remains that your snake was not in any condition to survive the transit to begin with as 85 degree temps would NOT kill a Ball Python or a Boa for that matter, if packed right. You didnt even give him 72 hours to make sure he was healthy and satisfied with his purchase. If this guarantee is null and void simply because he received his snake a mere 4 hours AFTER he should have, you might as well NOT ship since there will be more times than not that a package will arrive late.

Yes i had every intention to quarantine first i wanted to make sure both snakes were eating and i know the possibility of spreading mites. Chris had asked me the same question days prior to the arrival date i had told him i would. not put them together right away because of possible relocation stress.

 

[kmurphy]

The UPS drivers in my area deliver to my house around 4:00pm no matter how it is shipped. Is the seller stating that he didn't allow for a first attempt to be late afternoon? It doesn't make sense to me that an early afternoon delivery would result in a DOA even if it was the second attempt.

 

[Python Dreams]

First off, I am not taking sides with either party, even though I agree that as a seller it would probably have been better to just refund him the money. Having him pay $100 for shipping out a replacement for a DOA is ridiculous.

But, when I am waiting for a shipment, I have windows open, and I go out and look outside periodically. If there was any possibility of a mix-up with a neighbors apt., I would leave a note on their door.

The thing that concerns me is the missed delivery attempt. As a buyer, I have always known that if a delivery attempt was made, and I was not there... Well I would not have one leg to stand on, and the responsibility would be 100% on me. I can see where a newbie buyer would not know this, but I am surprised that so many here can just toss that fact out. It is a safeguard in place for the seller to make sure the buyer is taking responsibility for a live animal in a box. I think its strange that some of you can so easily dismiss what is common practice and logical. Should the snake still survive? Yes... Would the snake been alive on first delivery attempt? None of you know that!

As far as waiting 4 hours to notify the seller about a DOA? Why? Does the buyer have a cell phone? Seems strange. Would also be interesting to know if the information about the heat packs truly showed up after the Paypal case was closed.

 

[Shadera]

I wish there'd be a whole lot more proof posting going on.

 

[eddieriv]

I will tell you the truth because I honestly have no reason to lie to anyone her especially my friend that I have known for 8 years. I filed a claim to paypal and he closed it, this claim was before I found the 2 extra heat packs. I have no reason to add 2 extra heat packs to the story when people already know that even with 1 heat pack the snake shouldn't have died. Some people keep saying that i missed the first attempt like I wasn't even home for it but on Thursdays I am off of work and I work nights I would not leave my house when expecting a live animal. UPS just didnt come to my door, like I said i didn't even get a notice on the door that i missed the package. Like Lou stated the second attempt was around 2pm which i signed for how does that extra time kill a so called healthy snake. Mentioned earlier I have had live packages arrive at 4pm with no problem in cold and hot weather. I emailed Lou last night to come to an agreement and yet he still doesn't feel obligated to do anything because of a "Missed First attempt" keep in mind I got the package the same day not the next day.

 

[deborahbroadus]

If it were me, I would want this to go away.

Unfortunately, Eddie, you have already posted a "Bad Guy" thread and sometimes the receiptant of the thread gets so "pissed" that they consider that the "damage is already done" and are less likely to arrive at an agreement with you.

I am not saying that you should have gotten a free snake..it's not fair to the seller either to have a snake die and receive nothing either as mentioned before..... and it's not fair for you to be out 300+ and have nothing to show for it...BUT there are factors in the whole situation that make absolutely NO sense to me..soooooo what said,

What's going though my mind now is..."Lou, how badly do you want this to go away?"

A friend (breeder) once told me of a situation almost exactly like this, my advice was to just give the customer what they wanted and mark them off your "sell to" list before they have a chance to possibly cost you thousands of dollars.

 

[SierraMarie]

I have dealt with UPS a lot in my previous job. When I was not at the store for the first delivery attempt the package was then available for pick up at the hub. I found out the rule was that they had to attempt delivery when the store was open for it to be considered an attempted delivery for the day. I had to call UPS every day they attempted to deliver my merchandise before the store was open and get them to bring it to the store. I often had to argue with them to get the product delivered the same day.

With the very few facts that we have here I do believe that Ed did everything in his power to get the snake outside of sitting on his porch steps. As soon as he got the email stating it was a missed attempt he got on the phone with UPS and they arrived 4 hours later. From my experience with UPS they would not of done this if the driver had done everything the way he was supposed to.

I am using my own experiences with UPS as well as everything that Lou and Eddie stated here. Lou is using the failed delivery attempt for his reason to not refund the money. The fact that Eddie received his snake 4 hours later and not a day later, shows that he contacted UPS immediately and took the steps he needed to in order to get the snake as quickly as possible.

Shipping Companies make mistakes and packages don't get to where they are supposed to in the time they are supposed to. As frustrating as this is the responsibility for shipping company mistakes lies with the seller.

 

[Shadera]

Shipping Companies make mistakes and packages don't get to where they are supposed to in the time they are supposed to. As frustrating as this is the responsibility for shipping company mistakes lies with the seller.

No, it doesn't. We have very few choices to ship reptiles through, and trust these companies to do the job we pay them to do. How on Earth the seller is responsible if the shipper screws up, I cannot imagine that reasoning. I've had zero problems with UPS in all the places I've lived, and still am not convinced they were at fault.

If he had gotten that shipment on time and the snake was dead, then I see a complaint. I'm no stranger to receiving animals close to death due to negligence on the part of the seller, and I don't see where Lou packed any way other than how he was supposed to. That last box I got where the snakes were baking, arrived on time. Had they spent 4 extra hours on that truck they would have arrived dead. Had they spent another hour on that truck, they'd have arrived dead. Since that snake was packed, it looks, correctly, something catastrophic must have happened during the time in limbo. Perhaps before but we'll never know because, again, someone missed the delivery.

Common courtesy is to let the seller know as soon as you have the package. Good or bad. Ed didn't do any such thing for Lou. It was several hours before he heard word of the DOA or even delivery and anything could have happened in that time. Ed's already shown that he's willing to dig out idea after idea to make Lou look like a bad guy. Did some of you not read his original thread?

The bad guy thread's here, the damage has been done. Even if Lou pays, it's here to stay and isn't going away. It's one person's word against another's at this point.

 

[eddieriv]

No, it doesn't. We have very few choices to ship reptiles through, and trust these companies to do the job we pay them to do. How on Earth the seller is responsible if the shipper screws up, I cannot imagine that reasoning. I've had zero problems with UPS in all the places I've lived, and still am not convinced they were at fault.

If he had gotten that shipment on time and the snake was dead, then I see a complaint. I'm no stranger to receiving animals close to death due to negligence on the part of the seller, and I don't see where Lou packed any way other than how he was supposed to. That last box I got where the snakes were baking, arrived on time. Had they spent 4 extra hours on that truck they would have arrived dead. Had they spent another hour on that truck, they'd have arrived dead. Since that snake was packed, it looks, correctly, something catastrophic must have happened during the time in limbo. Perhaps before but we'll never know because, again, someone missed the delivery.

Common courtesy is to let the seller know as soon as you have the package. Good or bad. Ed didn't do any such thing for Lou. It was several hours before he heard word of the DOA or even delivery and anything could have happened in that time. Ed's already shown that he's willing to dig out idea after idea to make Lou look like a bad guy. Did some of you not read his original thread?

The bad guy thread's here, the damage has been done. Even if Lou pays, it's here to stay and isn't going away. It's one person's word against another's at this point.

At what point did Lou prove that I didnt call him about DOA snake, I admit i didnt call him as soon as the snake arrived the second time because I called UPS telling them that they never came the first time and my "PERISHIBLE GOODS" had died. Then I called Lou and told him the situation that I had called UPS and they didn't care to do anything and I asked Lou for a refund. MagicalMorph I havn't said anything to you at this point point others have already posted the facts that the snake shouldnt have arrived dead. You keep calling me a liar but yet you have no substance to prove that either. All Lou did was make up his own time line and wrote it here without evidence of that even being the case.

First alleged package attempt was 9:30 but I was home at this time
I immediately call UPS they say he will come later which happened to be 2pm the exact same day so I made my effort to make sure I got it. UPS NEVER CAME TO MAKE A FIRST ATTEMPT!!!!

Heat packs aside the snake should of never been dead on arrival if only one heat pack was in there and Lou claims the snake to be in healthy condition. Also Lou had told me over the phone that the snake had not eaten but finally pre shipping he fed the snake. Was feeding the snake before shipping a good idea? I have asked breeders and they said no.

Everything I said above I can't prove because l don't have emails stating this it was talked about over the phone however I have shown more proof then Lou has with my previous email copies.

I have tried to talk to Lou and come to an agreement but he doesnt want to

 

[chris allen]

No, it doesn't. We have very few choices to ship reptiles through, and trust these companies to do the job we pay them to do. How on Earth the seller is responsible if the shipper screws up, I cannot imagine that reasoning. I've had zero problems with UPS in all the places I've lived, and still am not convinced they were at fault.

It absolutely does. As a consumer you are paying for an item and the shipping to get. Its the sellers responsibility to get it there, regardless if its UPS, FED Ex or USPS's fault, unless there are other Terms of Service that state otherwise. You're telling me if UPS delivered you a box with a snake in it, the box was completely smooshed, the snake dead, you as the buyer would be OUT??? It would be the seller's responsibility to get you another snake, or a refund. Ever purchased anything from a company and it arrived broken? Or ever have anything get lost? I have never known a company to not send out a replacement, without even charging shipping again. I know it sucks that these shipping companies don't offer or get involved with live guarantee, it would make things a lot easier to pay for some type of insurance to cover that, but they don't.

 

[eddieriv]

I attempted to work things out last night but this is what I get.....

 

[eddieriv]

Honestly people this won't end, Lou won't take responsibility I have come to terms with it, I can't do anything about it. I know who to and not to deal with. For the people who support me thank you for the others that called me a liar thank you too.

 

[SERPENTS DEN]

Whether one or three heat pack where used the fact is the snake still arrived dead.

 

[Shadera]

It absolutely does. As a consumer you are paying for an item and the shipping to get. Its the sellers responsibility to get it there, regardless if its UPS, FED Ex or USPS's fault, unless there are other Terms of Service that state otherwise. You're telling me if UPS delivered you a box with a snake in it, the box was completely smooshed, the snake dead, you as the buyer would be OUT??? It would be the seller's responsibility to get you another snake, or a refund. Ever purchased anything from a company and it arrived broken? Or ever have anything get lost? I have never known a company to not send out a replacement, without even charging shipping again. I know it sucks that these shipping companies don't offer or get involved with live guarantee, it would make things a lot easier to pay for some type of insurance to cover that, but they don't.

Apples and oranges. If I missed a delivery attempt, and the animal arrived dead because of extra time in transit, that would be 100% my fault if the shipper packed correctly. It is my sole duty that day to pick that box up on the first attempt, and come hell or high water I will. Even if it meant I had to grab a book and go sit on the front steps for some fresh spring air for a few hours. If it's truly an inconvenience to have to wait on the package, deal only in person or schedule for a date when you can be there and watching. Ed didn't receive a smashed box. He received an intact box, with an animal that spent more time in the back of the shipping truck than it should have. Have you ever been in the back of one of those trucks? It gets mighty hot back there once the sun starts beating down, and add in extra heat from the road and the mechanical end. How can anyone say with surety that the death didn't happen in that time span? That's what this hinges on for me, not that it matters to anyone but me. If I missed the shipment and the snake arrived dead I'd be very upset but not trying to squeeze the seller for my money back. (Unless as mentioned before, it were packed incorrectly) I certainly wouldn't be trying to pin 100% of the blame on the seller, or on the shipper. I guess I'm just okay with admitting when I'm wrong.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

I avoided posting on this one due to all the subjective and emotionally based posts but it is truly amazing to me how broad the spectrum of opinions is on a relatively simple situation.

The buyer has admitted that the seller told him, pre-shipping, that he would guarantee live arrival if the animal was delivered on the first delivery attempt. He said nothing about "not responsible for carrier error" or anything of that sort, just a first attempt condition which is standard i the industry.

We have documentation, regardless of what the buyer claims, that he did not receive the animal on the first delivery attempt. Maybe it came a lot earlier than expected and he was out back, maybe he was taking a shower, or maybe it was exactly as he said that the UPS driver didn't even attempt a delivery....doesn't matter a bit. The only documentation that can be pointed to is that UPS says they tried and no one was there to receive the animal.

It's not even necessary to point to the fact the buyer has admitted that he has had frequent problems with UPS deliveries in his area so that he should have been doubly on the lookout for the delivery.


Based on nothing but the first point above, the seller "owes" the buyer nothing.


That said, let's look at it from a business standpoint. Is it good business for the seller to offer the buyer some sort of compensation from a goodwill standpoint? You betcha.

That's why the seller did exactly that. He offered other animals at a deep discount as partial compensation for something he was obligated to do absolutely nothing on. I have done this myself several times over the last 18 years even though I knew i wasn't in the wrong. It's called word of mouth advertising and it pays solid business dividends. I would not pull the offer due to being annoyed with the initial thread but it is well within the sellers rights to do so since the offer was over and above TOS in the first place. Not a wise decision but definitely within his rights.


On the three heat pack issue I'll flip a coin. The buyer brought that issue to light an awfully long time after delivery. The seller has already had one recent customer post that he received a far more delicate animal recently with no heatpacks in the box. This one is a "he said, he said" issue that only the two principals know the truth on.


And Eddie...your

I attempted to work things out last night but this is what I get.....

comment is just so much crap. You want to be 100% compensated and you want the seller to bear a 100% loss. That is not working it out. Bear in mind that the only one who is at fault based on the actual hard evidence presented is you.


My solution would be for the seller to either offer a partial cash refund )$150 is the number I have in mind) or honor the offer of the discounted replacement animal. Not because he is legally bound to but because it would be a good business decision.


But again...based just on the evidence posted and the terms agreed on, the seller owes the buyer nothing in this instance.

 

[eddieriv]

Apples and oranges. If I missed a delivery attempt, and the animal arrived dead because of extra time in transit, that would be 100% my fault if the shipper packed correctly. It is my sole duty that day to pick that box up on the first attempt, and come hell or high water I will. Even if it meant I had to grab a book and go sit on the front steps for some fresh spring air for a few hours. If it's truly an inconvenience to have to wait on the package, deal only in person or schedule for a date when you can be there and watching. Ed didn't receive a smashed box. He received an intact box, with an animal that spent more time in the back of the shipping truck than it should have. Have you ever been in the back of one of those trucks? It gets mighty hot back there once the sun starts beating down, and add in extra heat from the road and the mechanical end. How can anyone say with surety that the death didn't happen in that time span? That's what this hinges on for me, not that it matters to anyone but me. If I missed the shipment and the snake arrived dead I'd be very upset but not trying to squeeze the seller for my money back. (Unless as mentioned before, it were packed incorrectly) I certainly wouldn't be trying to pin 100% of the blame on the seller, or on the shipper. I guess I'm just okay with admitting when I'm wrong.

I initially asked for half back then was asked to pay more for two snakes I didn't want to purchase. I i honestly wasn't home then I would admit it to be my fault but i'm sorry I am not sitting on my porch waiting for a package that can sometimes come at 2,3,4 o'clock. I have had people ship with ship yourreptiles.com before and it doesn't always come at 9:30. I refuse to believe that you are on your porch waiting for a package all the time. You honestly can;t expect everyone to do what you do if you do it at all. As far as I am concerned no the package wasn't shipped properly with 3 heat packs. I don;t care how many instructional videos Lou watched he missed the one about customer service.

People have lives, things to do around the house and can't be waiting by the window 24/7. Its not that i didn't care about the package but geez sitting on the porch? I bet if I sat on the porch the email sent to me would have still said missed 1st attempt.

 

[eddieriv]

John where did Lou present evidence that he said that if I didnt get the animal on a first attempt that it was my responsibility? I know its industry standard but Lou never said this to me and never made that claim what so ever. All he did was tell you that on a post but that was never discussed between us before the shipment.

I did try to work things out 3 times, when the snake arrived dead, when he offered me 2 nonequivalent snake replacements and last night. I asked him for a partial refund which was denied, He took away the snake offers so I wanted a full refund.

John you saying that he owes me nothing is based on him writing something that was never discussed.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

John where did Lou present evidence that he said that if I didnt get the animal on a first attempt that it was my responsibility? I know its industry standard but Lou never said this to me and never made that claim what so ever. All he did was tell you that on a post but that was never discussed between us before the shipment.

I did try to work things out 3 times, when the snake arrived dead, when he offered me 2 nonequivalent snake replacements and last night. I asked him for a partial refund which was denied, He took away the snake offers so I wanted a full refund.

John you saying that he owes me nothing is based on him writing something that was never discussed.

I made the assumption that the statement you made in your first post quoted below was based on a conversation with the seller. My bad. However it does demonstrate that you were well aware of the need to ensure receipt on the first attempt.....you didn't.

Now first let me add that I understand if you aren't home for the first attempt then its the buyer who is at fault no doubt

As I stated earlier, if I were the shipper I would definitely have offered you some level of compensation. He did. He offered you two animals at approximately $50 each plus shipping. You did not take advantage of it at the time. That one falls on you

 

[RichsBallPythons]

USPS,FedEX,UPS all CLEARLY state on their sites they DO NOT COVER PERISHABLE shipments. Which is why no insurance is allowed to be added to them as they wont cover it.

Live arrival means just that, if you guaranteed it and it didnt come alive, Seller is stuck replacing it or refunding the money minus shipping price.

If it truly was a missed first attempt then its buyers fault and not the sellers, and its at the sellers discretion whether or not to replace it or offer a partial refund.



Bickering back and forth does nothing, all were getting it email screen shots from one party, Can we get a Tracking Number posted so we can check our self.

Lou you whether it was your fault or his, to get ahead in this industry offering a 50% refund will be honorable.