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Bad Guy Lou Rodrigues, Designer Ball Pythons also on Kingsnake.com

I have a question. Why is it so important that packages be signed for and delivered on the very first delivery attempt? I've had UPS come by and deliver packages first thing in the morning, and very late in the day before they stop deliveries. Numerous times I've missed their first attempt at delivery (even though I was at home or around the house at the time of delivery) and I've had to call UPS and have them make the driver come back around, or go to the UPS hub and pick up the package myself if the driver has returned to base. I've always gotten my package, eventually sometimes, the next day after it was shipped and a delivery was attempted. I think some sellers claim to only honor guarantees if the animals are signed for on the first attempt just to get out of DOA claims. I bet oftentimes animals are already dead by the first attempt, but if the buyer doesn't receive the package until later in the day then the buyer is screwed out of a claim.

In my opinion, sellers should assume the risk for the animals during shipping, and the buyer only assumed the COST of the shipping. It shouldn't matter if the package is not signed for the first attempt, if the weather is bad, or even if it is delayed. The buyer paid for a live, healthy animal and that is what they must receive. I guarantee animals I ship out 100%, and only buy from others that do as well. Of course, if the weather isn't conducive to shipping, I don't ship.
 
hhmoore said:
Kevin,
Let me ask you this question...
When a seller is setting up a shipment to you, does the information show that Next Day Air is delivered by 10:30am, 3pm, or end of day? I can't speak for UPS; but I know if morning delivery is not an option with FedEx, I know about it before I print my label. The difference, in your scenario, is that the shipper should know that the box will be subjected to higher (or lower) temps, and can pack accordingly.
Click to expand...

Harald... I honestly dont know what it shows on their end. If you want to set up a dummy shipment... I will be willing to PM you my address so you can see.

I do know this though.... everytime I buy an animal from someone I have not done business with... I ask them if they are shipping via FedEx or UPS. If they tell me UPS I let them know that I wont be getting the package until after 2pm my time... and give them the option to ship FedEx. As has been mentioned... Next day air packages via fedex arrive to me in an air conditioned van.... even if he gets to me late for some reason (which happened two weeks ago) they are still in a climate controlled environment.
 
Southern Wolf said:
Brian... the point I was trying to make is this.

IF the temps were the same.... what is the difference if the buyer got the snake at 2pm on the second try (same day) OR me getting the snake at 2pm on the first try. At 2pm it would still be dead.
Click to expand...

I was just thinking that. When you use s.y.r. you dont receive your package at 9 930 like your suppose to. Most of my customers that chose s.y.r. for me to ship, receive there package anywhere from 1030 to 230p.m. On a few occasions even later.
LOOK, lets take out the three heat packs. Why would this snake die by a 2 o clock arrival time? If it was 85 degree's out. I dont think the moving ups truck with the side door open, got to hot inside. If it were properly packaged right this snake should be alive right now. Not a doubt in my mind. There are heat packs that are 10 hr and 18 hr. The shipper needs to be responsible for how the animal is packaged.
UNLESS he knew there was a issue with the snake and he sold it before he had to deal with it, and it died during shipping. I mean im not a snake guy but how much does a 800 gram breed-able spider b.p. go for? Sounds like a good price to me. :shrug01:
But i think Harold said it somewhere, UPS are the worse delivery service to deal with. You think that guys that get paid a fair wadge could properly do there job. I have caught my ups guy spinning a package on his finger and popped it in the door sideways. After that he some how lost his route. I am sure i wasnt the first to complain.
My opinion has been stated, If Lou properly packaged this animal It should and would of made a 2 o clock delivery Time. A refund is deserved. Im sorry even if you refund him and dont deal with him again. And offering a baby spider b.p. doesnt compare to a breeder. Nor does a normal adult. When he paid 350.
 
Because, if the buyer doesn't accept the animal on the first delivery attempt, the animal can be subjected to conditions that cause it to die. Whether it be cold or warm, extremes are deadly. Take this situation for example...a sunny 85 degree day can easily see temps reaching over 100 degrees in the back of the delivery truck (I've measured temps in my truck at 120+, sitting in the shade on such a day). Now, that is dangerous enough; but when you add a heat pack, the temperatures become an even greater issue.
This is a big factor in why I have all my packages held at FedEx for pickup, and strongly encourage that option to my customers (in fact, if the conditions aren't to my liking, I suspend the offer of door to door shipping)
 
Ramiro said:
I have a question. Why is it so important that packages be signed for and delivered on the very first delivery attempt? I've had UPS come by and deliver packages first thing in the morning, and very late in the day before they stop deliveries. Numerous times I've missed their first attempt at delivery (even though I was at home or around the house at the time of delivery) and I've had to call UPS and have them make the driver come back around, or go to the UPS hub and pick up the package myself if the driver has returned to base. I've always gotten my package, eventually sometimes, the next day after it was shipped and a delivery was attempted. I think some sellers claim to only honor guarantees if the animals are signed for on the first attempt just to get out of DOA claims. I bet oftentimes animals are already dead by the first attempt, but if the buyer doesn't receive the package until later in the day then the buyer is screwed out of a claim.
Click to expand...


Here is the reason that I have EVERY package sent "signature required".

How am I going to know when you got the package?
How am I going to know that the driver didnt just drop it off on your porch in 90+* weather and drive off... and you found it 3 hours later?

Lets say I look at the tracking and it shows delivered at 11:15am, but I dont hear from you till 3:20pm about a DOA.... if you didnt sign for it at 11.15am then how do I know you were really home to accept the shipment? How do I know that you werent out at Walmart shopping and come home to find it on the porch?

In 90+* weather... even though I will have a cold pack in the box it doesnt need to be setting out on a sunny porch for 4 hours.

Now on the flip side.... it shows delivered at 11:15am and you signed for it. Its DOA... im going to ask for specific proof (sorry folks.. thats just how it is)... and once I get what Im after then I will be asking... what can I do to make it right.

That is the reason I send everything "signature required". Its documented proof that there was someone there when delivery was made and the package was not left sitting on a sunny porch baking.
 
Southern Wolf said:
Brian... for this scenerio... all the temps and conditions are the exact same for both shipments. Low 80's

You ship me a snake and it doesnt get to me until 2pm, and I sign for on first attempt. It is dead on arrival. (remember... I cant get UPS packages before 2pm)

I ship you a snake... you miss the first delivery but you call UPS and they agree to redeliver and you get it at 2pm. It is dead on arrival.

For this scenerio .... we will use his package in both instances (the joys of "what if"). The time in transit is the same... the temps are the same (low 80's). The only thing that is changed is I signed on the first attmept and you did not. Can you honestly say you'd hide behind the "first delivery attempt." Sure... your within your rights as a shipper... but if the python was packaged PROPERLY.... it wouldnt matter if it spent an extra 4 hours in 80* weather. Either it was going to arrive alive in both instances... or it was going to arrive dead in both instances.

Im all for standing behind your TOS... that is why we have them... but in this particular case... I would have to step out from behind mine.

The reason I am willing to step out is because I already KNOW that Im not getting packages till after 2pm from UPS.

HOWEVER.... the time line has not been proven.... so I ask one of you to post the tracking number to help prove the attempted and final delivery times.

I am basing my assumption solely off the offered time line. In 80* weather the python was either going to arrive alive or it was going to arrive dead. Doesnt matter if it was sent to me for a first attempt delivery at 2pm or to him for a second delivery attempt at 2pm. At 2pm it was either going to be alive for both of us... or dead for both of us (providing my weather and temps were the same as his)
Click to expand...

If i ship you a snake and it is DOA, and it is the first attempt, and if there were no delays on the part of the shipper, and it was the time that I agreed on, then it would be on me.

Now, I only ship Fedex over night priority, so my packages are guaranteed to arrive by 10:30 a.m.

If you send me a snake, and I miss the delivery, for whatever reason, and they put it back on the truck for another attempt. I get my second delivery several hours later. That DOA is on me if you stated in your terms that a failed delivery voided your live animal guarantee.

It is not fair to a seller to take the blame, when the buyer didn't hold up to his end of the deal. That is the buyer is expected to be there for the first delivery, there should never even be a second delivery attempt.

This isn't baseball, one strike and your out. All proven documentation in this case, was shown that the buyer was not there for delivery. Even if he claims he was, and maybe he was, I was not there. The fact is, UPS documented, no one was there. Out of everything that has been presented here, this is the only thing no one can argue about.

I also stated that I believe both parties are lying to some degree. Here is the problem with that. Neither one is going to admit they were lying because they will lose their credibility, not just here, but the next time they speak. So don't look for this situation to get resolved. As I have said, this thread is no longer doing any good. There is nothing else that can be added. I believe it is done and there will be nothing more done.
 
eddieriv said:
People have lives, things to do around the house and can't be waiting by the window 24/7. Its not that i didn't care about the package but geez sitting on the porch? I bet if I sat on the porch the email sent to me would have still said missed 1st attempt.
Click to expand...

See, that's the cavalier attitude about receiving a live delivery that really bugs me. I've had people miss the first delivery and act like that and I can't stand it. The animal that I worked years to produce and hatch out is in a box on a truck somewhere and your response is "I got better things to do". You don't have to believe that I sit on my porch for 2-3 hours with a big cup of fresh ground and brewed Caribou Blend coffee watching the birds at my feeder, or the various insects buzzing around in my flower beds, and waiting for my new arrival. But I do, and I really enjoy it.

This thread is all he said, she said except the missed delivery and the attitude about it. I have had "bad" delivery drivers that I wouldn't trust with live deliveries. In that time all live animals were held for pick up or shipped via another carrier. The situation was always laid out before shipping and we were always able to work around it.

I'm not sure any good will come from this for either of you, but maybe people who read this think a little more when getting things shipped. Get to know the habits of your drivers, if you don't then have everything held for pick up.

I do agree with a lot of others that 4 extra hours should not make a difference. Then again I also don't think the animal should have been shipped with such a large difference in temps. One week and you could have shipped without this issue. Hopefully everyone that sees this can learn from this as well.
 
Can we just get this straight and stop saying that I refused a replacement snake. I never refused anything I said Lou let me figure out the direction I would like to go in before i spend another $100. Sorry Its not an easy thing to fork over another $100 when you didn't get what you paid for the first time. I ordered a 800gr breeder, he has other male breeders that he was selling and didn't offer it to me instead he offered a baby and an adult normal. I don't see it necessary to up the tracking number because it will not prove anything except the second attempt was made same day at 2:02 pm. It has my address on it so i don;t see it fit to show everyone.
 
Southern Wolf said:
Here is the reason that I have EVERY package sent "signature required".

How am I going to know when you got the package?
How am I going to know that the driver didnt just drop it off on your porch in 90+* weather and drive off... and you found it 3 hours later?

Lets say I look at the tracking and it shows delivered at 11:15am, but I dont hear from you till 3:20pm about a DOA.... if you didnt sign for it at 11.15am then how do I know you were really home to accept the shipment? How do I know that you werent out at Walmart shopping and come home to find it on the porch?

In 90+* weather... even though I will have a cold pack in the box it doesnt need to be setting out on a sunny porch for 4 hours.

Now on the flip side.... it shows delivered at 11:15am and you signed for it. Its DOA... im going to ask for specific proof (sorry folks.. thats just how it is)... and once I get what Im after then I will be asking... what can I do to make it right.

That is the reason I send everything "signature required". Its documented proof that there was someone there when delivery was made and the package was not left sitting on a sunny porch baking.
Click to expand...

I'm not questioning the need for signatures, Wolf. Everyone should require one. I'm questioning the need for it to be accepted on the first attempt. What if in your scenario I was not home at 11:15 and I got the package at 3:20 instead? Do I still get a guarantee from you if it is DOA>?
 
Seal me up turn the heat up times 3 and lets see how 4 xtra hours feel Hot and starved for some moving air s'os ya can oh I dont know maybe catch yore breath!
 
Sent By:
"Edward Rivera" <[email protected]> On: Apr 04/08/10 8:40 PM

Well look I have spoken to many python breeders about the matter without name dropping, Heat packs peak at 115 degrees not 80 like you had said, now you are gonna tell me the spider is sold that just shows that you really don't care about your costumers. You got your $350. You have people posting on both sides. You blamed me anyway because you think i wasnt home sorry I was im not gonna take that bullshit. Keep your snakes I don't give a shit dude. You killed the snake with a heat pack in 80-90 degree weather
 
selitper10 said:
Sent By:
"Edward Rivera" <[email protected]> On: Apr 04/08/10 8:40 PM

Well look I have spoken to many python breeders about the matter without name dropping, Heat packs peak at 115 degrees not 80 like you had said, now you are gonna tell me the spider is sold that just shows that you really don't care about your costumers. You got your $350. You have people posting on both sides. You blamed me anyway because you think i wasnt home sorry I was im not gonna take that bullshit. Keep your snakes I don't give a shit dude. You killed the snake with a heat pack in 80-90 degree weather
Click to expand...

Looks like a refusal to me, and that was back on the 8th.
What day was the offer to buy the spider at $100 made?
 
selitper10 said:
Sent By:
"Edward Rivera" <[email protected]> On: Apr 04/08/10 8:40 PM

Well look I have spoken to many python breeders about the matter without name dropping, Heat packs peak at 115 degrees not 80 like you had said, now you are gonna tell me the spider is sold that just shows that you really don't care about your costumers. You got your $350. You have people posting on both sides. You blamed me anyway because you think i wasnt home sorry I was im not gonna take that bullshit. Keep your snakes I don't give a shit dude. You killed the snake with a heat pack in 80-90 degree weather
Click to expand...

Just in case it's missed.:)
 
tinmantribe5 said:
Seal me up turn the heat up times 3 and lets see how 4 xtra hours feel Hot and starved for some moving air s'os ya can oh I dont know maybe catch yore breath!
Click to expand...

Shawn, what are you implying here? You DO realize that, mostly, the holes are for the heat packs right? Snakes need very little air to survive a 30 hr tansit. As for "moving air", I have never seen moving air in any type of packaging that I have used. Then again, I am not shipping a fan.
 
selitper10 said:
Sent By:
"Edward Rivera" <[email protected]> On: Apr 04/08/10 8:40 PM

Well look I have spoken to many python breeders about the matter without name dropping, Heat packs peak at 115 degrees not 80 like you had said, now you are gonna tell me the spider is sold that just shows that you really don't care about your costumers. You got your $350. You have people posting on both sides. You blamed me anyway because you think i wasnt home sorry I was im not gonna take that bullshit. Keep your snakes I don't give a shit dude. You killed the snake with a heat pack in 80-90 degree weather
Click to expand...

I would consider this as a refusal Eddie;)
 
i would agree that the tracking number has no effect in this matter does not prove anything other than first attempt was missed and was recieved on second attempt. like i said before at very least the refund should be half and in this way both parties lose a little. and in no way does a male neonate and a adult female make up for a breedable male that does not constitute a replacement imo. good luck hopefully this will come to a quick end sooner than later.
 
Its not shipping a fan ,when you have a snake in a sealed tomb with 3 xtra heat packs to seal its fate if their would have been maybe some more holes the tomb would have leveled out a little you guys act like this is Rocket science or somethin dean!The Animal was overheated Dude! thats from too much heat and no ventilation!
 
Deb seriously grow up, this was after i was insulted by his offer anyway like him he took away his offer the snake came on the 7th and he offered and took away the offer on the seventh. Sorry about being annoyed that he offers then takes it away and I say something like that out of anger but I that point I was fed up. So Deb if that's the only thing you have seen this whole time get out of tunnel vision mode
 
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