• Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

    =====================
    Posted 08/15/2025
    =====================


    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

    =====================
    Addendum: 01/10/2026
    =====================


    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Bad Guy Luis Torres, Murray Utah (Bad Guy)

WebSlave

It is what it is, but certainly not what it was.
Staff member
Staff
Joined
Feb 3, 2002
Messages
20,505
Reaction score
864
Points
113
Location
Crawfordville, FL
Yeah, you would think that of all people, I would know better......

Back in Spring of 2005, I came up with a plan to offer my customers the opportunity to get some custom genetic combination corn snakes by request. What I would do is to offer to produce a clutch of baby corn snakes for them with the genetic combination of their choice. The stipulation being that they buy the entire clutch, unsexed, and right out of the egg.

Luis Torres out of Murray, Utah took me up on this offer and as per his request I bred a Hypo Lavender Blood Red to a Butter Motley, producing 11 babies for him, which I sold for $100 each. He actually only requested the Lavender Blood Red, but I gave him the bonus Hypo gene additionally. At the time he placed his order, I told him I would let him know the clutch count so he would know what sort of expense he was looking at, which I did in fact do. I believe it was 14 eggs laid, of which only the 11 hatched out. I also gave him the approximate hatching date (68 days after being hatched). So he was well aware of this impending expense.

----- Original Message -----
From: serpenco
To: fam torres
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 9:23 PM
Subject: Hypo Lavender Blood Red x Butter Motley Corns


Luis,

As you had earlier requested, I bred my Hypomelanistic Lavender Blood Red male to a Butter Motley female. She produced 14 good eggs and 2 slugs. They are due to hatch roughly around July 5th.

Just thought I would let you know how that went.

Thanks.

I sent a followup later in June just to make sure Luis was still interested in those animals.

----- Original Message -----
From: serpenco
To: fam torres
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: Hypo Lavender Blood Red x Butter Motley Corns


Luis,

.......

BTW, are you still interested in those Hypo Lavender Blood Reds x Butter Motleys?

Thanks.

To which I received the following reply:

----- Original Message -----
From: fam torres
To: serpenco
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: Hypo Lavender Blood Red x Butter Motley Corns


Hello Rich
Yes I am still interested in them. I believe we set a price of $100.00 each. Let me know when you expect them to hatch?

....

Thanks Luis

When they hatched out in July, I sent Luis the following email:

----- Original Message -----
From: serpenco
To: fam torres
Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 3:06 AM
Subject: Re: Hypo Lavender Blood Red x Butter Motley Corns


Luis,

Your snakes have hatched out. I haven't been able to count them, as they are balled up in a corner of the egg incubating container, and I don't want to disturb them right away. But it looks like 9 or 10 of them made it. All normals, of course, so there weren't any genes common between the two parents. Which actually would have surprised me if it had, but heck, you never know these days.

I'd like to get these out to you as soon as possible, so can we settle up on them? Depending on what that hurricane does, I might try to ship them out on Tuesday.

Anyway, please get in touch with me when you can.

Thanks.

Luis called me on the phone upon receipt of the above email to tell me he was short on money and could only pay $200 towards them. Well I have known Luis for a long time and we have always had a very cordial relationship, so I figured I wouldn't have any problems trusting him for the additional $960. Not an enormous sum of money, by any stretch, and he stated he would be sending the the balance "shortly" when he sold a few of his own animals.

The animals were shipped to Luis on 07/13/05 and he confirmed receipt with the following email:

----- Original Message -----
From: fam torres
To: serpenco
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: Hypo Lavender Blood Red x Butter Motley Corns


Hello Rich
They arrived
Thanks Luis

Off and on over the next several months I would send reminders to Luis about this outstanding balance. He would respond to them occasionally.

----- Original Message -----
From: fam torres
To: serpenco
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 10:24 AM
Subject: Re: Hypo Lavender Blood Red x Butter Motley Corns


Hello Rich
Sorry for taking so long I will get a money order out to you.
Thanks Luis

By October, with little or no correspondence, I was beginning to get quite concerned. I sent reminders every now and again, as I still hoped my trust in Luis was warranted.

Finally, I felt I had to set a deadline as this was just dragging on far too long:

----- Original Message -----
From: "serpenco" <[email protected]>
To: "fam torres" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: Hypo Lavender Blood Red x Butter Motley Corns


> Luis,
>
> Hope things are going well for you. Haven't heard from you for a while, so
> I figured it is time for a nag-o-gram.
>
> We really need to get this outstanding balance paid off soon. I'm in the
> position where I am going to have to be paying income taxes on income I have
> not received. Regardless of your financial situation, I believe you could
> have been at least making an effort to pay off the balance even in modest
> increments. So this all makes me feel pretty uncomfortable. I hate to think
> you are just not going to pay me the balance, but I don't really have any
> contrary evidence at hand, so I have to read the cards that are laying on
> the table.
>
> So with that in mind. I am requesting that this balance ($960.00) be paid
> off in full by no later then April 1, 2006. I do hate to put a deadline,
> but just being Mr. Niceguy and letting it slide looks to be an endless road
> to be on. And I think I have been patient enough and fair enough as it is.
> You were one of the extremely few people I would have trusted like this, and
> it pains me to think I may have midjudged you.
>
> And I do have to admit that I am deeply offended, after all these years,
> that you would have put me so far down on the priority list for debts that
> need to be settled.
>
> Take care.

I finally did get a reply somewhat later, which was a followup to a phone call left on my answering machine earlier that day....

----- Original Message -----
From: fam torres
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 1:34 PM
Subject: Money


Hello Rich
I still owe you money!
I am going you sell off most of my Hondurans, I seemed to have gotten tired of them and I think I have to many and that makes it too much like work. Before I offer them to some one I was wondering if you might take some in payment for the corns I already reserved form you.
If you are interested I could send you a list of what I have and you should be able to sell them at one of the shows. to recover the funds I owe you.
My animals are clean and healthy have had no mites for year.
Let me know
Thanks Luis

Not having any interest in those Hondurans, as I had stopped working with them years ago and do not broker animals for other people, I declined that offer.

On April 1, I received the following email from Luis:

----- Original Message -----
From: fam torres
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 3:13 PM
Subject: hello


Hello Rich
On Thursday I will have the money to send to you.
Thanks Luis

I send a couple of followup emails since then.

----- Original Message -----
From: serpenco
To: fam torres
Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: hello

OK Luis. But do me a favor please. Send it via a method using a tracking number. I would hate to have a lost envelope cause a misunderstanding between us.

Thanks.

----- Original Message -----
From: serpenco
To: fam torres
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: hello


Luis,

I will be going to my post office box tomorrow (Wednesday, 04/12). I do hope the payment is in there.

All to no avail as I have heard no further word from Luis. The money has not been received, and my April 1 deadline came and went. I waited more then an extra month before finally figuring that it was time to accept the fact that I am not going to get paid for those animals I sent him.

I don't know the situation behind Luis's failure to pay me. I don't know if he ever intends to. I think I have been more then patient.

This has served as another harsh reminder of why I have my policies set about requiring payment in advance of ANY orders I ship out. I thought I could have trusted Luis, and apparently I was mistaken. The lesson learned here is that you cannot make exceptions for anyone. Friend or not, nor no matter how long you have known someone. It doesn't seem to make any difference to them in how they treat you, so I guess it shouldn't make any difference to me as well in the enforcement of my own policies.

Fact of the matter is that I only get burned by the people I trust. So the simple cure for this is to just not trust anyone. Make your policies and stick with them, no exceptions. If it offends someone, that's just the breaks. I work too hard at what I do to just GIVE people my animals.

FWIW........
 
Wow Rich that is awful to be treated like that from someone you thought was a friend. I think that makes it that much more unacceptable. I hope Luis comes through and does pay you. Good luck.
 
I agree Rich. What happen to the good old days, when a simple hand shake was all it took to bind a deal.

I must quote my signature.
A man is only as good as his word!!

I too hope he does the right thing and takes care of his debts.
 
sad

I am also sorry this has happened to you Rich.I wonder if Luis will ever respond to this thread now that everyone knows what he did to you?
 
Interesting.... I just got off the phone with a guy who was approached by Luis to buy animals from him. He didn't know about this deal, so fortunately i was able to put him on alert about the trustworthiness of this guy.

Also interesting to note that Luis Torres is still active in the herp trade and yet has not made ANY effort whatsoever to pay me the money he owes me.

Just goes to show you that it just is NOT worthwhile to trust anyone. Even someone who you have spent hours with over the years on the phone with.
 
Rich,
No doubt Luis is a bad guy in your mind, and likely 99% of the readers here believe you and the evidence. What got my attention is that you decided to post this particular personal "bad guy" experience to the top of Fauna, as a sticky. I concur. Its your site, and this guy owes you.

Just want to plant an idea. You often see frustrations voiced about the ability of known "bad guys" to advertise in Fauna, as with your recent post in the Scott Sanchez thread. Even for such known bad guys, noob's have to come here, do a search (hoping they have the name correct), or maybe see a revoked GGC, which will only exist as a warning marker if one was first awarded. There is no quick reference anywhere. While it has its pro's and con's, maybe just look at the "pro's" of a "Fauna Bad Guy" list right at the top of the BOI ? What you have done here with Luis, only bigger. On it would be folks voted on by a voluntary panel of esteemed Fauna members (you pick .... maybe 10, where a vote of 7 would be required). Like KS, people would get there by having 2-3 unresolved issues of significance, where a scam or theft would be apparent to this jury. Folks could get removed by clearing those issues. The forum for debate would be the BOI of course. I think that many members (and potential members) would seeing a true "bad guy" list, as voted by proven good guys. Under each person so voted would be links to the BOI threads that qualified them as "bad". Or instead of "bad guys", call it "Vendors with issues in the BOI", with all other qualifiers still required. It would become very popular, as many here would want to see the accomplishment of ID'ing bad guys being "up in lights". I think you could find 10 good people here to be your jury who would willingly participate.

The downside ? Legal of course. You could maintain veto control, but it also wouldn't be difficult to run without legal dangers so long as you had a good vetting process. There are certain names that would be a lock to be on the list, and any legal claim by them could be laughed at, as it isn't going to happen any more than Luis is going to have his attorney mail you something. Just food-for-thought, but it would put more meat on the bones here, just as elevating this thread did for you, and become a very popular list.
 
Sorry Jim, but no, I am not going to do that. At least not in the foreseeable future. That suggestion, if implemented, would still put me or whoever was designated to manage it, in the position of a JUDGE, which I have stated time and time again I am not willing to do. In the case of THIS thread, I have direct experience with Luis Torres and feel confident that my evidence and knowledge of the case warrants my being a judge for THIS case and MY labelling him as a "bad guy". I cannot do the same for anything else anyone else states that I do not have this same direct experience and knowledge of.

Further, please do not clutter up THIS thread nor others with suggestions of how to run this site or any forum on it. Although I do appreciate feedback and construction suggestions, there is a Feedback Forum designed for such things, and I would prefer that this thread cluttering that has become a growing problem begin to diminish appreciably.

Since I am under no increased legal risk by editing or deleting posts within a thread I have started, such "cluttering" will be edited out or the posts completely deleted as necessary in order to keep THIS one on topic.
 
I have recently been notified by a few people that Luis Torres has approached them about buying snakes from them. Apparently he does have some money available (assuming he does intend to pay for them), but seems not at all concerned that some of that money rightfully belongs to me. Rather than paying that debt owed me, he is much more interested in buying more animals, I guess. I believe those people contacted have pointed Luis to this thread, in case he has missed it. I know he has not, because I personally sent him links several times. None of the emails sent to him have been replied to, of course. He may not be able to see this thread now, however, because I did ban him. I could see no reason to allow him to utilize any of the resources this site has to offer, under the circumstances.

So if Luis Torres contacts you about buying animals, please keep me in mind. I am not asking you to black ball him. I am suggesting that your selling to this man is furthering his business engagement in this profession by him using your animals to create saleable offspring in the future. In effect he is using my money to buy your animals to further HIS business.

So beware. I sincerely doubt he would hesitate to screw YOU out of money if the opportunity arises, based on how he has treated me. He has lied to me, cheated me, and stolen from me, even after all the years we have corresponded on a friendly basis. So if you think he would treat you any differently, well, good luck with living in that fantasy world.
 
i'm sorry it whent this way not every body is honest lets just belive we can work together and do something better.
 
That's pretty ballsy; well stupid actually, spam the pet thread of the site owner. Way to fly under the radar genius. So long "Steluta", you and your IP will surely soon be banned.
 
Rich, after actually thinking about it, my post is going to look awfully silly once you delete his post so please delete mine as well when you take out the trash.
 
wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww..........that was stupid of you!.....i would not have trusted any 1 with that sum of cash.....not even if it was my girl friend....good luck buddy....u will need it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....sorry if i was rude...u know how it is dude
 
luis t

that sucks he has not paid his debt . im not sure but theres a guy on kingsnake.com that calls himself luis t and he is selling a nice collection of boas .maybe you should call his phone or email. maybe you will have a better chance now. hoped this helps you .

this is from his add on kingsnake
http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=8&de=540198


For more information e-mail or contact me by phone at 602.617.8533 or 602.980.5707 thanks luis t
 
Take him to court its in writing him agreeing to pay you you have evidence take him down make him think twice about screwing ppl trying to make an honest living and you were doing him a favor!
 
Same here Rich

Not so long ago, I made a deal to purchase a ball python for several thousand dollars. The animal was a male and the person I was purchasing it from asked if he can hold on to it to attempt to breed it since I wasn't doing anything with the animal at the time. I have bought/sold/traded with this person many times before and thought nothing of it. He was also very well thought of by members of the herp community. About six months later, I asked if he was done using the animal and if he can ship the animal. At that time, he said the animal died because his thermostat broke and overheated his cages (which I totally believed him). Then he said he was in a bind because he hasn't worked in over six months etc... I said that's ok, but I expect some sort of reiumbursement (whether in animals or refund) in a reasonable amount of time. He basically said he can't promise anything even though he still had a good amount of animals in his collection. To make a long story short, my attorney friend was about to file a claim and I was going to take to him to court in abstentia (he was out of state) in order to recover some of my money. Miraculously, he turned up with a replacement for that animal when this occured. Lesson learned. Even though I treat this as mainly a hobby, it's money first for animals from this point on. I think my pastor once said "don't give anything out that you need back or can afford to lose whether it's money, goods, etc..." Very intelligent statement.

Tom Chiang, MD
 
Interesting, I am from Malaysia, I have send a bunch of reptile to Miami and haven't been paid a cents, I am just like you Rich. We trusted someone cos we been dealing a long time. But if you make a wrong move it is gone. I have waited 2 yrs for my 6K, everytime he say is ready but I haven't get any money from him. He got reported in BOI but he has many supporter to back him up. That is why I waited for so long.
I know he will never pay me and dare me to report to the Embassy.
 
When my relative just graduated law school

the first advise that his teacher gave him: Collect the fee first! That is the only course of action to secure the legitimacy of the transaction. Sorry for your loss Rich. JERRY
 
thats horrible

Somtimes things like this happen to the best of us and in no shape or form is it fair. BUT now a days you need to be careful with money. I would suggest getting a credit card number and a drivers license ( incase of a bad check) and the credit card i would charge them after a month automatically or give the customer an option to have incriments charged to their cards on a monthly basis.

Wish you the best of luck.

I just went through my own horrible expierence with a White Throat Monitor.
 
Back
Top