m.whitefeather- bad guy

[HerpVenue]

So whose computer are you guys using?
whose house are you at?

 

[TS Herps]

I am at my house on the same computer that I've been on all along, and my brothers wanted to jump in here as they could not contain themselves any longer. If this was a problem, and I distorted things a bit, that was far from our intentions.

 

[pnretic]

paul neal

hey mike can you come out and play.

 

[Stardust]

Todd, as far as any respect for you, it has now been lost in your childness. This puts me in a position where you do deserve your money back but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth to say it with no respect there. Really sucks to have to stick up for someone who can stoop low and play childish games.
Evan, for the record, Bob Clark gave me permission to post his e-mail and thanked me for asking him first. I would not have done it without his permission.

 

[Glenn Bartley]

Yes Todd, it is doing no good to give names of people. I did in fact write to Mr. Clark. He said he does not post his complaints on the BOI. There you have it, at least one name you should keep out of here.

So what if Bob Clark does not want to post here. What is wrong with someone saying this is is what Bob told him/her? And please don't say, oh that would be hearsay, and we should not use hearsay on these forums because it is wrong (unless it is a violation of the TOS that I missed).

If all you have is hearsay, it is not admissible in court, so it does not belong here as this thread may just end up in court.

There were also other remarks made about hearsay, but you can only cut one thing at a time, and I am not going back to reread 11 pages to find all of them.

Why doesn't hearsay belong on these forums. This is not a court of law, is it? Do the Terms of Service say that hearsay should not be posted. If so then fine - hearsay does not belong here. However, if the TOS does not forbid it or recommend against it - why would anyone try to ban it. Hearsay is always, and I repeat always allowed as evidence for investigators to consider in the performance of their investigations. Heck, that is how many great cases are made. You know like when a tipster calls a police hotline: "Yeah officer, I heard this guy at work saying that he heard a friend of his Mr. John Doe (fictitious name) say that he would kill that no good trollop of a wife of his if he thought he could get away with it. That had to be 6 months ago, and yesterday I read in the paper about this woman Jane Doe (fictitious name) found dead after she supposedly fell off a cliff while having a heart attack." Heck, almost all the info the guy has is hearsay! Yet, something like that could make a 'natural causes death' turn into a homicide investigation - and it could all be started by hearsay. And by the way, there are a fair amount of circumstances whereby hearsay is allowed into criminal court proceedings.

As for who is the guilty party, if any in this forum discussion - boys and girls I gotta tell you this one is worse than a real cut throat Dallas rerun! Has anybody thought that there may have been a total foul up of communications on both ends, because it sounds to me as if the people on either end of this just don't want to listen to one another. Do your deals in writing and save the emails or letters.

NOW after just checking back with the forum I see a whole new page has been added since I started typing.

Ritchie L,

Thanks for the info on the IP Address of bigguy, it saved me from including something I was writing to Evan about his reply to bigguy; and it certainly has pretty much destroyed, in my opinion, the credibility of Todd S, and bigguy - but that is just my opinion.

Oh heck, I'll post the part for Evan anyhow, becuase regardless of the fact that it is possible that bigguy is an alias for Todd, I think the point I was making still stands:

Evan,

Please read this in the same light with which we both wrote our pieces, the ignorance of the possibility that Todd and bigguy were possibly one and the same person. (note that I will put my own words in quotes to indicate that was what I wrote before I got the new info based on the IP address of bigguy)

You accuse someone of violating the TOS and then call that same someone a coward (your own words seemingly a pretty clear violation of the TOS on these forums if I understand them correctly) then you go on to, in my opinion, threaten him/her because he said

maybe people like Evan come on to back him because they are part of the deal.

. That word "MAYBE" is a powerful word in a court of either criminal or civil law; you would not stand much of a chance simply because maybe also implies maybe not. He did not call you a cheat or a conspirator as I see it, but he did, in my opinion, troll and you, as I see it, bit the hook. I understand your getting mad, I would be too if someone said that about me; but you need to chill before you reply in apparent anger like that. As I understand it you are a pretty big seller - what do you think it does for your business when people see replies like yours? In fact, unless I missed another post from 'bigguy' I do not see where he actually accused you of any wrongdoing; so your saying that he did so could possibly be held against you in court in a countersuit. I am not meaning to pick on you, yours was the most recent post that leads up to the next point I will make, and that is why I used it as an example of: This topic really getting out of hand, mean and nasty.

This is for everyone,

I for one think that all the parties who were actually involved in this mess have had their say, and the moderators ought to, in my truly humble opinion, consider shutting this one down. I think you all pretty much know I am not in the habit of making this particular type of suggestion - I enjoy these posts as much as the next guy - but please this one is really becoming a flamer

I guess my point still stands, maybe now even more than before, since we now have the IP address evidence that someone MAYBE (as in: is possibly) using an alias to make posts here. This is all getting out of control, and the involved parties have already said all it seems they can say that makes any point. So why not give it a break and can it.

Best regards,
Glenn B

 

[Ken Harbart]

Okay, let's touch on a few issues...
1) Since "bigguy" seems to be having an identity crisis, I've banned him. So far, we've been told he's Sam Johnson, Bobby Jones, and Todd Spinosa's brother. Using your real name isn't a hard concept to grasp. Whether or not this ban is permenant will be up to the Webslave when he logs and weeds through this mess.

2) This isn't a playground, nor does it exist for personal entertainment. With the route it's taking, this thread is coming dangerously close to getting locked. If you have something new or relevant to contribute, then feel free to do so. If all you want to do is post flame bait, then this isn't the place for you.

3) Hearsay- So long as the source of the info is cited, it will be allowable. In other words, info from a third party will be allowed only if that third party is named. If the third party is not named, then it will be treated as an anonymous post, and deleted accordingly.

 

[m whitefeather]

sorry paul no time to play. be a man and call back. what to afraid to admit that you are wrong. and for todd., just incase you forgot bob has a forum here is your info once again (ups tracking number) 1z1xx8460174092416. i mean i am sure you must have read it but forgot to check while you and big guy were playing together. i posted it yesterday for you. anyone intrested in seeing the certified check reciept you may email me i will scan it in for you along with the ups statement and reciept and if you like you can post it here so this way todd has no excuses. and just to help you out the addy is www.ups.com. and just because you can not find anyone to back your and pauls claims doesnt give you the right to attack evan. also i am still waiting for your proof on als comments. and evan calm down and play nice. and man am i glad i did not bet you on the stanley cup. michael whitefeather..... paul grow some peanuts and call to end this.

 

[The Dark Grove]

I've said it a few times, so have a few others...


Paul has made it clear that he wants you to publically in writing state what you are going to do. He stated he wants a refund.

You on the other hand seem to be playing games Whitefeather or whatever your name actually is in trying to get him to call you on the phone, where anything you say will never be verified and you can just back out of it or say it was never said in the first place, the reason Paul wants things said here.


Paul has made it clear what he wants so take your own advice and "be a man" and get this settled..........here as he requested.

Quit avoiding things, this is out of your control unless you don't want to come back here. In which case your reputation continues to go down the drain and will follow you to other forums, like how it did at the Bob Clark forum and it will follow you for a long time.


Paul wants it settled here, a refund in writing where you can't play games.


Ralph Chapman

 

[TS Herps]

Thats exactly why Paul does not want to do this on the phone Michael...because I talked to Al on the phone so unfortunately that is the only proof I have here. I think Paul is doing the right thing making you clear this up on here. And once again I will let you know if I recieve and can cash this check.

 

[evansnakes]

When you can say that Todd has not proved himself to be both a liar and a coward, creating new screen names and attacking me when I have no place in this, then you can say something about me. I have not said one single word in this entire thread concerning anything positive or negative about either party. Both parties have handled this deal and this thread about as poorly as is humanly possible in my opinion. As for inference not being enough to cause harm, explain to Martha Stuart who has lost billions of dollars since it was suggested she committed an illegal stock trade, even though she has still not been charged let alone convicted of anything, that infering guilt can not cause harm and give me grounds for civil litigation. I know what I am talking about. If you want to take your chances, keep playing. Just the fake names supporting Todd's posts are a good start. And, as I have said twice, I have spoken to Bob Clark about this. There is no reason to involve him.

Hearsay is OK in some threads. In this thread there are straight statements being made involving significant dollar amounts. You do nopt involve hearsay in these types of situations as this thread could be used in small claims court and hearsay would only validate your opponent's claims. Again, as I have said several times, I have just been trying to explain how to resolve this matter. Nothing more. I have never said anything derrogotory about Paul, even though his posts are very difficult to read and he has presented himself very poorly here. I have not said one positive word about Mike Whitefeather here either even though in my opinion he could and should resolve this with his customer and avoid all this stupidity from others that inadvertantly appears when two people have a legitimate issue with each other.

Evan Stahl

 

[m whitefeather]

hey todd i talked to al and said he did not even know who you are. but i guess i should believe you over someone that i have traveled with been at shows with taught me more about retics then i knew prior to meeting him fished with and have known for some years now right. plain and simple i refunded your money when i did not have to. you backed out of the deal and you have no proof to back the accusations about what al said. so strange to me but then again you wanted to play so you changed your name to big guy. all i can say to you little boy is grow up and make sure next time you run your mouth you can prove what you say. and to make the comment to see if you can cash the check, its a certified check from the bank which means you pay for it before the make it out. and ralph are you pauls cheerleader now to? plain and simple he wants a refund he can post his address here. he will wait until i sell the females to recieve his money. i will not take it out of pocket because he changed his mind after the deal was made. and yes todd i wanted to finish this by the first week of june.. is it june yet? and ralph as far as my rep goes, i did not know i had one. my animals have a rep of being the some of the best out there, all i am is the person who cleans and feeds them. as well as being the one who puts them together. do i even know you ralph? i dont think so. stay out of business dealings that you are not involved in and have no first hand knowledge of. if it takes knowing people like you, todd, or paul to have a rep i dont want one. there are lot of people that i have done business with and deal with that know what type of person i am. they are the ones that matter not you. so now paul knows the deal and what will be done. if he does not like it then so be it. i am sorry to offend anyone outside of those mentioned but when you sit behind of a computer like these clowns its easy to talk and be anything you want to be. if they have a problem confront me head on at a show and speak you peace not play games on a computer. and ritchie both bob and i came up with our agreement to end our situation . michael whitefeather

 

[The Dark Grove]

I don't need to be a "cheerleader" for Paul, I'm helping somebody who has shown you to be a fairly dishonest person and came here looking for some help, which I and a few others have given.


You are going to wait and sell the two Retics before refunding his money, money you already have?


Paul, that statement was all you need to take him to civil court and file a grieveance with the FBI fraud department. Whitefeather does not have the right to legally hold onto your money indefintely under his stated conditions, with his rep in the toliet he might never sell those two animals anyway.


You have a big mouth Whitefeather, I don't mind posting my opinion when it's backed by your previous posts.

Paul has stated that he wants a refund in writing on this thread, you just contradicted yourself again with your "holier rthan thou" post.


You need to make good on Paul's $2000 and refund it, before selling those Retics.


Ralph Chapman

 

[HerpVenue]

I was reading Bob Clark forums. And I clearly saw what Micheal Whitefeather said. He said for Paul to take it to the BOI and he will straighten things out here and not on BC forums.

Well Paul posted here. Did Micheal refnund his money? NO what did Micheal say?

posted by M Whitefeather
sorry paul no time to play. be a man and call back. what to afraid to admit that you are wrong

First he says take it to the BOI.
then he says take it to the phone.
What happens after that? Come to you in person?
What happens after that? Sleep with you before he gets his money?

The guy wants a refund. What are you going to do?

 

[m whitefeather]

ritchie i do believe i clearly stated his money would be refunded. he backed out on a deal. not me. when the snakes are sold his money will be refunded. i should not have to lose out and neither should paul, so quit betting a dead horse. read things before opening your mouth. i clearly stated that it would be refunded when and after the animals he all of a sudden decided he did not want anymore are sold period end of story. and ralphie boy where is the contridication. he will be refunded. show me other breeders that will say, well if part way through the deal you decide to change your mind and the animals in question come off the market i will give you your money back instead of sticking with our original agreement. once again ralph really slow this time he will be refunded... is that clear enough for you ralph and ritchie. as far as i am concerned this post is over. paul post your addy on here so i can see to it that as these girls get paid off you start to recieve money.... michael whitefeather

 

[m whitefeather]

hey ritchie your such a super slueth maybe you can provide pauls address since you have an issue with him calling me and seem to like to dwell on it with ralph so much. michael whitefeather

 

[Cheryl Marchek AKA JM]

You may find that making a phone call will be necessary. Pick up an answering machine with record function. (Look at Walmart, should be cheap). It is only illegal to record the conversation if you do NOT notify the other party you are recording. I beleive in some states you don't have to tell them, but be sure it is admissable by.....

Turn on the recorder, dial the phone. Ask for your party (M. Whitefeather) verify whom you are conversing with and state:

"I am hereby notifying you that this conversation is being recorded for both our protection, do you understand that this conversation is being recorded?"

Wait for a response from him.

If you get a "Yes" continue conversation. If you get hung up on, his refusal to have the conversation is admissable in court, and in small claims will wiegh in the "preponderance" of evidence. Call back tomarrow and notify again that you are recording.

If you get no responce, ask again. If he begins speaking to you after you have notified him, ask again...but let him play out how long the conversation will go, just keep notifying him you are recording (Shouldn't be too hard to prove he understands English, making the tape admissable if you can prove you notified him enough times)

 

[Brian Oakley]

Well, I too have read all this and I have a question of a different type.
What size/age are these snakes. I am not sure if it was already said or I dreampt it, but are these adults? What are the sizes and ages of these retics? I will elaborate after I get the answer.
Brian Oakley

 

[HerpLuver]

Mail Fraud is what im thinking

MAIL FRAUD - 18 U.S.C. 1341, makes it a Federal crime or offense for anyone to use the United States mails in carrying out a scheme to defraud.

A person can be found guilty of that offense only if all of the following facts are proved: First: That the person knowingly and willfully devised a scheme to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false pretenses, representations or promises; and Second: That the person used the United States Postal Service by mailing, or by causing to be mailed, some matter or thing for the purpose of executing the scheme to defraud.

Just thought that this has something to do with it. From what ive read, he promised to give snakes, never gave the snakes for the cash, but is keeping the cash. Or at least until he sells something else to get that money again.

 

[matt poker]

Matt you gotta keep your ear closer to the ground big guy.

Lol, i'll do that.

 

[Stardust]

I believe I have read on this forum many times that a seller should not spend the money from a buyer until the transaction is complete and the buyer is happy. Until then it is NOT yet the buyers money.
Thought that is what I have read in so many posts here.