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m.whitefeather- bad guy

mike

i just printed all this stuff and i will have a great case against you.if no money by next week and when you go back to jail tell big bubba "be easy on me"
 
Paul

Im a little confused here. Michael states that he is going to refund the money and you get angry and throw a tantrum?

if i dont have 2000$$$$ by 1-8-03
Click to expand...

This is even more confusing to me. Did I miss something?

you are the liar and thats it
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Michael says he is going to refund your money even though YOU broke the agreement(aka an oral contract) and you attack him? Your immaturity right now is blinding. Before you type why dont you step back and think about what you are going to put, for your own sake. You have just shown that your way more worried about a grudge/vendetta with/against Michael, then anything else here. I hope people take this into consideration when they look at what you have typed and who is telling the truth about this whole thing.

You are someone that I would NEVER want to deal with, and I hope that everyone here sees this and takes it into consideration.
 
$$$$$$$$$$$

i must have missed that one andy.actions speak louder then words.mike talks a great game and thats it.i know andy if some body had 2000$$$ of your money you would do nothing??i think not.here's something for you andy i hope mike gets you...messing with a man is very personal...........................
 
Paul

i said id would like to come to yourplace and get the animals and see your stuff thats it!!!!!!!!i did not say im coming to get the animals.
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You come here and start this 20 page thread slandering a person then at the end of the thread YOU verify what me and Michael have been stating the whole time!!!! You said that you were going to get the animals, and that seems like a pretty good reason for Michael to not ship them out in my opinion.

I hope that everyone who has been siding with Todd/bigguy and Paul rethink there position on this whole thing considering that Paul has just verified what Michael was saying on the subject and why the animals where not shipped.

In my mind, and I hope everyone elses that reads this you have shown that you are a straight out blatant lier. You hung yourself with your own words.

Is this the kind of attention that you were striving for when you posted this topic? Well you got everyones attention, however its the kind of attention that you dont want to have.

I hope everyone here that was so quick to pass judgement on Michael and throw mud will be big enouph to concede that they may have been wrong in light of the fact that Paul has just verified what Michael has been saying this entire time. As I have said before Mob mentality took over, and everyone decided to jump in and take a free cheap shot on someone when they thought that they were down.
 
Paul

i know andy if some body had 2000$$$ of your money you would do nothing??i think not
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Your right Paul, but if I said I was going to pick up two animals that were worth 2000 I would go and pick them up. Plain and simple.

In my mind you created this for yourself.
 
hold up

read it again andy i said "i would like to come get the animals and see your stuff"you with me.now i did not say "im coming to get the animals"your bestfriend told me "he is building crats for the girls to ship to me"so andy get YOUR #### straight before you try and belittle me!
 
Paul reread your post. You have no credibility. You stated "I want to come pick up the animals and see your stuff" To anyone I have ever talked to that means "I want to come pick up the animals I bought and see your stuff"

Plain and simple. Paul you have shown how credible of a person you are. I am not trying to belittle you. I have done nothing in this thread but point out facts and respond to things with a level head. You on the other hand have not. Its plain and simple for anyone to see. They are your words, and dont try to take them back now.
 
yeh he did say he would LIKE to

not that he WAS going to. Im still with paul on this. NO matter what the situation is, paul deserves his money back. As far as i know, there were no stipulations that if paul renigged on the deal that micheal got to keep the money, so paul should still receive his money. And paul may have said over and over that he wants a refund, but thats because micheal keeps saying that he wants paul to call him. After, from what i understand, paul HAS called quite a few times and has received no call backs.
 
Chris if someone says to me "I would like to come to your place to pick up the animals that I paid for" I would say ok. From my understanding this was Michaels responce. After that I would expect the person to come and pick up the animals!! Thats how it works.


Why would someone need to ship out animals when the buyer asked permission to pick the animals up and consent was granted.

Pauls verbal attacks even after Michael tried to make things right just goes to show you Paul and his character. I dont think there is anything that will make Paul happy, I think it is quite obvious at this point that he has nothing but a vendetta against Michael and is only out to insult and slander Michael as much as he can.
 
Yes but, Michael also said he would ship out by June, if the deal was so concrete that Paul was going to pick up the snakes than why would Michael say that?
 
If someone said "i would like to come get the animals and see your stuff", I would assume that they are going to come pick the animals up. Also, he said you would be refunded, so just quit your bi***ing and get over it.

Matt Poker
 
Yes but, Michael also said he would ship out by June, if the deal was so concrete that Paul was going to pick up the snakes than why would Michael say that?
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I think he said he'd ship out by June, but then Paul said he'd like to come pick them up, so he didnt ship.

matt poker
 
Andy,
Seriously man...it's not like you're convincing anyone here that Michael is without fault in this deal. He is simply trying to split hairs (as well as trying to turn the attack toward others) in order to try to maintain some level of credibility...however, it's not working. Quite honestly, it's just making him look worse.

Let me ask you this...if Michael was planning on Paul coming up to WI, then why was he using the excuse that he couldn't ship until the crates were built? Also, why was he using the long drive to the airport as another excuse for not shipping?

This current "excuse" has already been invalidated. Sorry.
 
That can't be right, Michael had said he had not shipped out yet because it wasnt June yet.

We were still in May when this started. I do not think that is the correct answer Matt.
 
I am taking neither side on this, I just want to state that no matter what Micheal was in prison for is no concern of ours until he is proven guilty of commiting a crime in this instance. And also to call him a rat or a stool pigeon or what ever it is you want to call him is uncalled for. I worked at a Max Security prison and it was actually a rarity for a day to go by without an inmate coming to one of the Correctional Officers with information regarding something that another inmate has done, so informing is the rule not the exception.

And my only thoughts regarding this transaction are for Mr Whitefeather to refund the money as soon as possible, this will end alot of the backbiting that is occuring on this thread, and for Paul to try to remain civil through out the remaining time on this deal. I have sent out over 2000 for animals myself which due to whatever reason it might have been it took almost 3 months to receive the animals, and over 3 weeks of that time was without contact with the seller. I did get upset at times thinking I might be ripped off but I handled it as maturely and professionally as I possibly could have and the result was me getting some wonderful animals and the seller and I having a good relationship with one another.

Later Randall L Turner Jr.
 
Stardust,

Michael said that he wanted to have this deal done by the first week of June, not have them shipped out then.

Jay,

Before Paul even got the albino shipped from Michael he was planning on going there. (I know this because Paul told me on the phone himself) The "excuse" about the crates doesnt seem like an excuse to me, considering that if they were going to be picked up they would have to be transported in something, would they not? You just cant let 120 lb retics free roam in a car. At least I wouldnt.

Michael has tried to make things right and has gotten nothing but attacked. I really have a hard time believing that someone of your inteligence cant see that Paul has probably been the worst customer of all time. Even when Michael said things would be made right he was attacked. Just reading about these things has gotten me fed up with him and I really dont have much to do with this situation. I cant imagine trying to work out a deal with someone like this.

Michael has only brought up things about Bob and others after they have tried to bring things up about him and ruin his credibility. When you back something in a corner you have to expect it to fight back. This is what I see happening here. Everything has two sides and I am sad to say that many people are only seeing one side of this story. It appears that it is everyone against Michael here, and its not right.


As I said when I first started posting I said I dont want to get into the middle of this and be flamed, It appears that I landed myself smack down in the middle. But Im at a loss for why all of the flaming has continued coming Michaels way when he said that he would refund the money. Last time he said that Todd recieved his money. Why not wait and see what will happen rather then taking more shots at Michael.
 
OK, Ok...Anything can be confused over an email, over the phone, even face to face. So, I can't say for certain the Mr. Whitefeather has absolutely been wrong about whether Paul was going to pick up his animals or not (although it is the sellers responsibility to make SURE the buyer is satisfied...remember customer service???).

My one complaint with Mr. Whitefeather is when he said Paul could get a refund AFTER the animals were sold to someone else! Sorry, Sir, you don't get to make that call. You offered a refund as one of your options, it is clear that Paul wants his money back, he has given you his address, and NOW you OWE him the his $2000! If you do not pay him immediately, you will be deserving of the title "Bad Guy," and it may well be that criminal charges could be brought against you. You have certainly provided an ample supply of evidence here.

As for all of this stuff about Bob Clark, reputable man that he is, he is not the standard of right and wrong. It is entirely possible for someone to owe Bob Clark money and NOT be in the wrong on another deal. I'm definitely NOT siding with Whitefeather on this deal, but all of this other stuff has no bearing except to show a lack of credibility, and we have more than enough to draw that conlcusion as it is. Maybe it's time to stop with the "big names" now?

Finally, if "Whitefeather" is not your real name, do me a favor and pick another alias. As a Native American, I find your behavior and the slime it brings to all natives by the use of that name offensive. When you were talking about how your daughter was keeping you from taking care of business, I was tempted to ask of what nation you were, because I couldn't believe that SOMEONE wouldn't help you! But now that I know you're of the Wannabe Clan, it all makes perfect sense!
 
This is ridiculous. Michael has got you all splitting hairs and focusing on things that don’t have anything to do with the issue. There are simple and relevant facts here.

1. Michael has Paul’s money and Paul has no snakes.
2. Paul has made it clear that he wants his money back.
3. Michael has Paul’s mailing address and has had it since the beginning.
4. Michael has said he won’t return the money, at least not now.
5. Michael’s excuses are ridiculous and irrelevant.
6. Michael’s history IS relevant as this is a Board Of Inquiry, we’re here to find out what kind of business man Michael is.
7. While he has apparently done some good deals, he has a history of ridiculously bad ones, terrible customer service, and insane excuses.

Regardless of any “He said this…” or “I couldn’t do this because…” excuses the transaction has really gotten very simply now. Guy hands you money and before he even sees what he’s paid for decides he doesn’t want, a transaction doesn’t actually take place until there’s an exchange. No exchange, no transaction, it’s still his money. Simple.

There’s no reason this should be a problem. Michael has not lost anything. He couldn’t have sold these Hets, because of all the reasons he previously gave so he can’t complain about them being off the market. They were never really on it. Michael has something in his hands that isn’t his and he needs to give it back. That is the only relevant point.

Paul were I you I would not wait another day. File suit tomorrow. Michael has already told you he won’t give you you’re money back on your terms. Since it’s yours and he has no right to set terms, call the police, file a report, and file a civil suite. A crime has already been committed, no need to wait.

-Paul Holsinger
 
Its a little over board to tell someone to file suit tomorrow, don't you think? Stirring up some more.
I say wait, it is sunday. Don't know of anyone who delivers on sunday. Give the guy a chance to make this good.
I am not siding, just being realistic.
 
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