Bad Guy Maelstrom reptile ranch BEWARE

[meowmeowkazoo]

Actually, I think it makes him sound like a total drama queen that clearly thinks of himself in the most grandiose terms possible. Now that public opinion has swayed in his favor, he's using it as the excuse that he's clearly been looking for.

That CL post was made shortly before this thread was posted. If you're not going to use this very thread's existence to rationalize backing out of your promise, it makes little sense to cite that CL listing as your justification. Not real big on noticing the details, eh? I guess that's how a tail could get stuck in the lid (which the blown up pictures do appear to depict). This may be an unpopular sentiment, but this "poor me", crybaby routine is getting a bit old. A certain amount of righteous indignation is to be expected, but I think you're overplaying the martyr role. Pick a course of action and stick with it. You seem to be doing anything possible to talk yourself out of what you promised to do. If you don't want to give a refund, don't. Just please stop whining and referencing your illness and various tribulations that the "terrorists" are laying on you. We've all got problems. Most of us simply choose to get by without feeling the need to throw them in everyone's face every chance we get. Put simply: Get over yourself.

Agree. Mike, you should just give her the refund that was agreed upon and move past this. There is no evidence that suggests you are the cause of this dragon's death, but you have publicly stated that you will refund her. Keep true to your word and be the better person. Enough with the drama.

 

[RichsBallPythons]

I don't buy that. You've been a member here for over a month now. You have some general idea of how this forum works.

Please post up some proof of the vet visit.

Not to defend, but ive member of good 100+ forums that i signed up for and never posted. It is possible for someone that isnt active to not know how to move though a certain forum.

 

[Pasodama]

It looks to be pressed up against the underside of the lip to me.

Maybe, maybe not. It just doesn't look quite right for a firmly sealed lid. However, I can see where it can be left to interpretation, as to what is actually there, so people will just have to make up their own minds on that.

Wow!!
we arent even near the settlement date and Amandas Fiance posted this on CL in my area? how odd, this moves me to reconsider my restitution,
This is slander as the settlement date has not yet even come... very juvenile
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/pet/3743784108.html

It was in poor form for Amanda's fiance to to post the "attack", on Craigslist, when a resolution was being discussed and appeared to have been "right around the corner".
However, the negative behavior, of others (even if directly from the customer), does not give a seller a valid/legal reason to withhold a due refund or partial refund. The refund would still need to be given. Then, if libel can be proven, you can sue for that.
At this time, without further evidence, it does appear that a partial refund is due (for the damaged tail if for nothing else).
It has not been proven that there was a preexisting condition that led to the Beardie's demise (nor that the tail issue led to it). So, unless there were some proof, of that, I don't believe a full refund is due.

On another note, there have also been claims, by either Amanda &/or her friends/fiance, that the Beardie's genetics was going to lead to an early demise regardless of the tail issue, illness, etc. However, yet again, there has been no evidence/proof that leads to the validity of such a claim. Nor any clue as to where such information stemmed from. Really makes one wonder about why such a claim is being made.

 

[Mreynolds101110]

Your husband shouldn't have posted anything, being that his name isn't on the profile, and that he isn't the one whose name is associated with this account. It is in violation of the RULES of the BOI...

I am aware. The only thing I can get is ANOTHER warning. The thread is unfortunately here to stay.

 

[Malestrom]

Legally im bound to live arrival guarantee...met
As a respectable business person Imake exceptions to refunds etc and in such cases as this
My only quandry is thatafter a date and amount were set the onslaught of slander and presuure to act NOW began.
Im not crying poor me, just laying out facts.
The refund will neither make or break me.
The question is, how would any of you respond to a publicly extortive act(s) including posts on Hoobly and CL against my actions?
Not to mention the 15 pages here?
May5th isnt here yet, so many seem to have decided what I should do.
That is in my hands alone and im not legally bound to anything so anact of compassion is what it is and after all the bs what would you do?
I dont find myself beholding to any agreement spoken written or otherwise after this assault.
However that does not mean I wont make good on it.
Im just not saying at this point.

 

[Malestrom]

For peace of mind sake I should borrow thew money and do away with this whole ordeal.
However, I'm amazed at peoples wickedness and ferocity, even in my pm box on fj
Thank you to whomever here (moderator) brought the FaceJoke name to me, it is completely appropriate and I love it.

 

[meowmeowkazoo]

Legally im bound to live arrival guarantee...met
As a respectable business person Imake exceptions to refunds etc and in such cases as this
My only quandry is thatafter a date and amount were set the onslaught of slander and presuure to act NOW began.
Im not crying poor me, just laying out facts.
The refund will neither make or break me.
The question is, how would any of you respond to a publicly extortive act(s) including posts on Hoobly and CL against my actions?
Not to mention the 15 pages here?
May5th isnt here yet, so many seem to have decided what I should do.
That is in my hands alone and im not legally bound to anything so anact of compassion is what it is and after all the bs what would you do?
I dont find myself beholding to any agreement spoken written or otherwise after this assault.
However that does not mean I wont make good on it.
Im just not saying at this point.

I would not publicly commit to giving her a refund if there was any doubt in my mind at all. Two wrongs don't make a right. It was wrong of her to post those things, but it doesn't excuse you withholding her refund.

I personally don't feel that she is entitled to a refund, but a seller who goes back on his word is not a seller to be trusted. In the future you might change your mind about shipping out an animal after receiving payment, or you might change your mind about refunding somebody for a DOA.

 

[RichsBallPythons]

For her to harass you on other sites, is illegal and can be brought to court, as its a direct attack at you!

 

[Malestrom]

Thank you both.

 

[Pasodama]

Legally im bound to live arrival guarantee...met
As a respectable business person Imake exceptions to refunds etc and in such cases as this

If you order something, and it arrives damaged, I am sure you would not just accept it and deem the company "off the hook" for sending you a damaged item.
I can tell you that, if a customer receives a damaged item, and the company does not make good on it, the company would lose a court case. Just saying.

My only quandry is thatafter a date and amount were set the onslaught of slander and presuure to act NOW began.
Im not crying poor me, just laying out facts.
The refund will neither make or break me.
The question is, how would any of you respond to a publicly extortive act(s) including posts on Hoobly and CL against my actions?
Not to mention the 15 pages here?
May5th isnt here yet, so many seem to have decided what I should do.
That is in my hands alone and im not legally bound to anything so anact of compassion is what it is and after all the bs what would you do?
I dont find myself beholding to any agreement spoken written or otherwise after this assault.
However that does not mean I wont make good on it.
Im just not saying at this point.

Of course I would be angry/upset if people were posting things, about me, with malicious intent. Especially if it was libel or if there were other defamatory actions. It would make me even angrier if a refund was agreed upon, and a date was set for the refund, only to have people continue with malicious actions before that date has arrived. For me, such behavior would not go unpunished.
I can understand, also, how it could make someone not wish to give a refund. I really do. However, it does not negate responsibility &/or doing what is right.

All that aside, just as I would make good on something, if it was DOA, I would also do a partial refund (if the customer keeps the animal), or offer a full refund (upon ~safe~ return of the animal), if there was damage that I may have accidentally caused (or if it appears, much more likely than not, that I could have caused it). I believe any ethical person would.

Am Just pointing out what is right/wrong. I am not one who is going to strong arm you and I don't necessarily care what you do.

I do take note, however, of sellers who right wrongs and those who do not. Those who keep their word and those who do not. Etc. It impacts my decision on whether, or not, I would ever do business with them.
'Course, on the flip side, I also take note of customers (and "theirs") who bahave in an outrageous manner. This, too, impacts my decision of ever doing business with them.

 

[laterob]

Another thing is, as has already been mentioned but skipped by, is the the libel on CL a mike keeps mentioning was posted THE SAME day and around the same time as the OP (Melissa's husband) posted this thread.

 

[LauraB]

Here's the smear that Tim Barron, Amanda's fiancé, put on CL on the 14th - the same day the OP posted this thread on Amanda's behalf. The Hoobly smear that was posted by JayBDragons/Jay Perk/Jason Lamont wasn't dated, but I found it either the day the OP posted this thread or a day later. Either way, all 3 posts were pretty near simultaneous.

As for the anonymous "several sources" Amanda mentioned earlier regarding the alleged "genetic issues"; I don't think it's a stretch to conclude the same parties who posted this thread, the smears on CL and Hoobly, and who are also coincidentally friends on FB and share dragon breeding & vending interests, are most likely the "sources".

Since the dragon in question here came from Blood Bank stock, those same sources are also indirectly alleging Blood Bank of producing stock with genetic issues. You suppose they might take issue? Makes me wonder if the "sources" thought of that.

 

[laterob]

Laura, you're the best.

I am just trying to highlight that the recent Mike 'drama' about being libeled really doesn't hold much water. After all three of these postings took place, he made an agreement. Then he made it appear (or just discovered) that the smear campaign continued AFTER the agreement had been made...

I am more on Mike's side, here...but if he goes back on his word and doesn't make the refund, he's no better than the others (who seem to be really, really bad).

 

[TucsonRES]

i didnt post because i didnt know of fauna and didnt know how to work it until yesterday

I haven't chimed in because, I don't know either party involved and I have very limited experience with beardies or shipping.

But I have several issues with this thread.

1. The quote above about not knowing of Fauna when she has been a member since March. So she knew about this forum, maybe not how to post.

2. The OP's other half posting this on Amanda's behalf using the OP's account.

3. The fact that besides Amanda being the "injured" party to this, her friends and others who have proven problems with this seller going on a smear campaign on other forums before any resolution date had passed.

4. I could not clearly see the tail stuck in the deli cup lid, though it may have just been those pics that were posted.

5. Even the 1 pic that Amanda offered as proof of the amputated tail, does not show the tail.

6. Amanda said she didn't have a scanner and didn't want to take a picture of the vet bill because of the personal information on it. So take a post it note and cover the personal information, ie address, phone # and cc info.

7. What would going to the bank and getting a statement prove? It would just show that you paid a vet. Also, that would show your bank acct info, and other financial info. But you still don't have a scanner to post that info either.

8. Dennis, if you came to us and asked for help pricing and/or identifying an animal because of your lack of knowledge and we suggested a price, then posted about the 1 animal we happened to re home from you and what a great deal we just got, you'd be pretty upset also. Try looking at it from the other persons shoes.

9. Mike while I can understand that you are feeling attacked and pressured, you did state that you were going to do the right thing. Please don't waste that opportunity or you will have carry that with you. Show that you are the bigger person and man of integrity that you claim you are.

10. The loss of an animal whether pet or rescue is hard, so for that I am very sorry Amanda. It's just that without seeing the vet report or pic of the deceased I can not support your theory that the seller is responsible for your pets demise.

Doug Barreto
Tucson Red Eared Sliders
Tucson Reptile Rescue

 

[hhmoore]

Tim Barron, Amanda's fiancé

That answers THAT question for me - thanks, Laura.

 

[LauraB]

Excellent post, Doug.
Anytime, Harald.

No, Rob ... you're the best. And to be honest, I thought all that libel/slander junk was clarified way back on pages 8-9.
Libel = written, slander = spoken. I know you know I know; you know I know you know; and we both know Mike was corrected and acknowledged same

I just discovered more of what I consider contradictions (man, there's a lot of mud to wade through here!)
Go back and read Amanda's post #34, where she posted jpgs of her her FB conversation with Mike on March 12:
Amanda states, "she gotta go back to vet on Thursday ... They gave us antibiotics too just in case ...mike i tried ti save it but it was dead and could have caused infection and didnt want that".

Now fast forward to Post #98 where Sarah Haynes posted FB images of conversations. A big fat HUH? is outlined in yellow, where Amanda states, "oh and P.S she was never on antibiotics was no need wasnt infected her scales had grown back over the amputation site at time of death. Anyone whos not a dumb azz know they can cause impaction so u do what any reptile person would do due to meds ...in turn I was told from several sources that she was sold to me sick with a genetic deadly issue from what i was told ... He fails to relize (sic) everything he has promised me and said to me on fb is in black and white lol lets se him get out of that ...

So, uh ... antibiotics or not? Infection or not? "Genetic deadly issue"? I think not. Scam/smear or not? And Amanda is correct, good thing everything on fb is in black & white, eh?

Okay, now Post #96, the FB images Sarah posted where someone named Cody Rena asks, "Was the dragon listed as a rescue?" Amanda answers, "no cody she wasn't". (Yet the dragon's photos are there in a "3 Recent Rescues" album on Mike's FB.)
Further down on that same image Amanda states, "He told me the day she died that she was a rescue he doesn't know what was wrong with her ... I didn't know she was a rescue he told me and Jeffrey Willets that he bought her then changed his story now (<-- I corrected her typo) that she passed"

As can be clearly seen from the auction dialogue screenschot posted below, there is a jpg of the BBD parents and a clickable link clearly printed to "3 Recent Rescues".

I truly, truly cannot tell if that dragon's tail is caught in the deli cup lid, especially since Amanda has not provided photos of her own. Seems to me if it was, that portion of the lid that pinched the tail would be dark, not the same exact color as the rest of the lid. Mike was very prudent in taking photos prior to shipping - he wouldn't notice the tail?
The vet report has yet to be posted, despite requests and instructions for Amanda.

I believe negotiations for Amanda's refund/compensation started on or before March 12. I believe other people got involved; offers, demands and retractions were made, pressure and intimidation played a factor and finally group mentality prevailed with the CL, Hoobly & FB garbage more recently posted when Mike did not act fast enough, even though a May 5th date was promised. Yes, Mike has been very defensive. Yes, Mike has acknowledged his health issues repeatedly. At the same time, Amanda has also played the poor-pitiful-me card with her broken heart, crying like forever, the "I've been so fair, see how far it's gotten me", the "my angel", etc. None of us are in this hobby/industry because we don't care about animals! It's a given that we all love our animals; Fauna was born of that! I don't doubt Amanda loves her animals. I don't doubt Mike loves his.

However that beautiful dragon died, it wasn't Mike's fault or responsibility, IMO.

 

[LauraB]

PS ... my gawd, I even bored myself with my post ... note to self: brevity is a virtue.

 

[Malestrom]

I love the diligence you all show and youre perseverance in the never ending pursuit of the truth, the absolute truth as clearly as possible
Thank you

 

[Tenor Goddess]

Again, vet diagnois, reports and invoice are needed...

Ok, wow. Fun times drinking my coffee and making my way through this sinkhole of a mess. lol
Doug, excellent post. I was just going to chime in and suggestion your #6 recommendation, as well as state even photocopying the vet work and using a marker to mark out all financial information is easy. LOADS of options on how to do that. It's a very fast, easy way to make sure the buyer has their side officially posted to show they are telling the truth. Regardless of a bad, sad situation like the loss of a sweet little reptile, both buyer and seller need to show PROOF of what has transpired, in order for anyone to make a decision on anything. Everyone going back and forth on he said, she said, does nothing but make this another future 100+ page drivel of a post for others to get more and more confused.

Laura, in your last post, you summarized it all beautifully. I could have just skipped to your and Doug's postings and not have read all the rest. lol!

So, further stating what others have said:
Amanda - for your side, you need to post photos of your vet paperwork, diagnosis, etc (not just a receipt showing you went). You can use the recommended ways to blot out your personal and financial information. This will help your case, rather than leave it to speculation if this is a true story or not.

Furthermore, and forgive me if I zoned out and missed this, was any vet report provided to the seller?

We are asking because again, proof is needed by BOTH sides before anyone can be logically expected to take a given side. I will not say one person is good or bad without viable proof. But the entire issue of saying it was given antibiotics and then not, etc is only hurting Amanda if she doesn't come back with proof and the actual break down of the story with the vet report.

Kindest regards,

Amanda Rose

 

[KORBIN5895]

Hmmmm. I still wonder if the beardie she our based has even died or she is lying about that too. Thanks Laura.